Bluemoon goes into Meltdown

Don't think they are going to be able to do that.

How can you stop X company making a ridiculous sponsorship deal? Are you going to audit their accounts in detail? What right does UEFA have to do that?

Cap sponsorship revenue? What about ticket prices? The Sheikh can go sell a whole stand for a 1K per ticket, he buys them then sells them on through the web or something silly. How do you stop that? What right do you have to tell people how it would be reasonable to spend their money?
 
How can you stop X company making a ridiculous sponsorship deal? Are you going to audit their accounts in detail? What right does UEFA have to do that?

Cap sponsorship revenue? What about ticket prices? The Sheikh can go sell a whole stand for a 1K per ticket, he buys them then sells them on through the web or something silly. How do you stop that? What right do you have to tell people how it would be reasonable to spend their money?
They can't stop company X from signing a ridiculous sponsorship deal, but in terms of FFP only the part which is considered "market value" (ie a sum in parity with other clubs of the same stature) would be counted. That is what the rules say. That means that if they sign a shirt sponsorship deal worth £100m a year only £20m a year or so would actually be counted towards the FFP revenue, but they would get the rest of the money anyway to reinvest in infrastructure and things like that that aren't included in the FFP regulations either. Same would go for tickets I presume.
 
They can't stop company X from signing a ridiculous sponsorship deal, but in terms of FFP only the part which is considered "market value" (ie a sum in parity with other clubs of the same stature) would be counted. That is what the rules say. That means that if they sign a shirt sponsorship deal worth £100m a year only £20m a year or so would actually be counted towards the FFP revenue, but they would get the rest of the money anyway to reinvest in infrastructure and things like that that aren't included in the FFP regulations either. Same would go for tickets I presume.

Wage excess in offshore accounts, same for agent fees, transfer fees... Not simple, but doable.

A player who leaves won't bring it up, same holds for agents (Inland Revenue would screw them). Selling clubs may have an issue if they need that player sale revenue for their own FFP compliance but that may just skew which clubs they prefer to buy from.
 
Pretty cringeworthy to be honest. People always say the big teams get decisions, but no one seems to think that maybe big teams get more decisions because they have better players and end up getting fouled more as a result?

E.g. high rate of penalties at any of the big stadiums is probably because the ball is often in that teams penalty box and a foul more likely to occur there, as opposed to the decision being more favourable.

I'll admit that bad ref decisions are hugely frustrating. But generally they don't cost any team the title and it's pathetic to make out like the media and whoever else are getting us our titles as opposed to our experience and gritty mentality.
 
Pretty cringeworthy to be honest. People always say the big teams get decisions, but no one seems to think that maybe big teams get more decisions because they have better players and end up getting fouled more as a result?

E.g. high rate of penalties at any of the big stadiums is probably because the ball is often in that teams penalty box and a foul more likely to occur there, as opposed to the decision being more favourable.

I'll admit that bad ref decisions are hugely frustrating. But generally they don't cost any team the title and it's pathetic to make out like the media and whoever else are getting us our titles as opposed to our experience and gritty mentality.

Well, according to http://www.debatabledecisions.com/ that's not even the case. In fact all the top teams would be better off if it wasn't for wrong decisions - and we'd be a extra point ahead of City. Of course that table doesn't tell the full story, but from the stuff I've read on that page they seem to have a pretty diverse group of people saying what they thought of the decisions.

I think the "big teams get all the decisions" is based on the fact that most people see the games big teams play. United is almost shown on TV every week, but the likes of Stoke and Bolton aren't. The media coverage also plays a big part obviously - when United get a decision you'll be sure it's mentioned, but that's not really the case when the same thing happens to Stoke. I honestly don't think there's much truth to it - it's just fans of smaller clubs moaning and the general public accepting it as a fact.
 
I love the insistence that it's all corrupt but, if City win the league, then it's because they've "beat the system". So, they haven't just become 'corrupt' like the rest of us then?

I always assumed people spouted conspiracy rubbish to wind others up. However, they seem to have genuinely, almost casually, accepted it.
 
Pretty cringeworthy to be honest. People always say the big teams get decisions, but no one seems to think that maybe big teams get more decisions because they have better players and end up getting fouled more as a result?

E.g. high rate of penalties at any of the big stadiums is probably because the ball is often in that teams penalty box and a foul more likely to occur there, as opposed to the decision being more favourable.

I'll admit that bad ref decisions are hugely frustrating. But generally they don't cost any team the title and it's pathetic to make out like the media and whoever else are getting us our titles as opposed to our experience and gritty mentality.

OP may well be a Red WUM given the number of times he uses the word 'massive'...
 
Well, according to http://www.debatabledecisions.com/ that's not even the case. In fact all the top teams would be better off if it wasn't for wrong decisions - and we'd be a extra point ahead of City. Of course that table doesn't tell the full story, but from the stuff I've read on that page they seem to have a pretty diverse group of people saying what they thought of the decisions.

I think the "big teams get all the decisions" is based on the fact that most people see the games big teams play. United is almost shown on TV every week, but the likes of Stoke and Bolton aren't. The media coverage also plays a big part obviously - when United get a decision you'll be sure it's mentioned, but that's not really the case when the same thing happens to Stoke. I honestly don't think there's much truth to it - it's just fans of smaller clubs moaning and the general public accepting it as a fact.

Yep I agree. Often people roll their eyes when we get a penalty and say 'Well, it is Old Trafford' despite the fact it's a perfectly good decision, yet when a dodgy call goes against us e.g. the Newcastle pen this year, it's greeted with a 'Well, pigs do fly!' type reaction, despite the fact we quite often concede penalties and they aren't always the right decision either.

City have lost a lot of points this year due to indiscipline. Balotelli can play the victim all he likes, but most of his red cards have been deserved ones and challenges like the stamp on Scott Parker are horrendous and deserve the retrospective action they get. It's up to the team to get rid of that kind of behaviour, not to whine to the officials that they're being mean and costing them the title.
 
The irony of someone complaining of corruption while debating whether to renew his season ticket for the Financial Fair Play Loophole Stadium...
 
I still have to hear of a valid benefit for the FA if they help us win the league. They have nothing to gain.
 
Same with the media. They would still sell papers - more perhaps - if they filled the pages with stories about a City title win or about how United failed and were shite.
 
Pretty cringeworthy to be honest. People always say the big teams get decisions, but no one seems to think that maybe big teams get more decisions because they have better players and end up getting fouled more as a result?

I'd argue that the explanation for that perception is that big teams are more likely to take advantage of a decision going their way than small teams.

Take Stoke today, they scored from a corner they should have have got, lost anyway, nothing's made of it. If they win that game, even if they win it 3-1, then that's the turning point, that's what the game hinged on. On the other hand, we had a game against Spurs in 2009 where we were 2-0 down, got a dodgy penalty and came back to win 5-2, if that'd been a side like Derby or someone like that, they would probably have still lost 3-1 or something, and nothing would have been made of it. In the same season Ronaldo got sent off at Eastlands because Howard Webb made a technical error as far as the rules are concerned, we won anyway and nothing was made of it.

There's also the fact that bigger a side is, the more analysis there is of their games, and the more refereeing decisions are highlighted as a result. If a small team gets a decision against another small side, there's no coverage of it, maybe one line in a newspaper. United get a potential game changer and it's plastered all over the back pages.

People also let their biases come into it, you know the sort of thing - Howard Webb is a Man Utd fan, he just gave a free kick to Man Utd, that proves it. He disallowed two of their goals? Well that's just to cover it up, it would be too obvious to give them EVERYTHING.

The problem is that the analysis of football is so unscientific, so subjective, one can come out with this sort of shit and because one's coming out with it in a crowd or on a forum filled with people who share the same biases, it gets reinforced and it makes one think it is the reality. It's a real shame, because it brings into question the integrity of people who are doing an extremely difficult job, puts them under more pressure, and they can't defend themselves from it.
 
I'd argue that the explanation for that perception is that big teams are more likely to take advantage of a decision going their way than small teams.

Take Stoke today, they scored from a corner they should have have got, lost anyway, nothing's made of it. If they win that game, even if they win it 3-1, then that's the turning point, that's what the game hinged on. On the other hand, we had a game against Spurs in 2009 where we were 2-0 down, got a dodgy penalty and came back to win 5-2, if that'd been a side like Derby or someone like that, they would probably have still lost 3-1 or something, and nothing would have been made of it. In the same season Ronaldo got sent off at Eastlands because Howard Webb made a technical error as far as the rules are concerned, we won anyway and nothing was made of it.

There's also the fact that bigger a side is, the more analysis there is of their games, and the more refereeing decisions are highlighted as a result. If a small team gets a decision against another small side, there's no coverage of it, maybe one line in a newspaper. United get a potential game changer and it's plastered all over the back pages.

People also let their biases come into it, you know the sort of thing - Howard Webb is a Man Utd fan, he just gave a free kick to Man Utd, that proves it. He disallowed two of their goals? Well that's just to cover it up, it would be too obvious to give them EVERYTHING.

The problem is that the analysis of football is so unscientific, so subjective, one can come out with this sort of shit and because one's coming out with it in a crowd or on a forum filled with people who share the same biases, it gets reinforced and it makes one think it is the reality. It's a real shame, because it brings into question the integrity of people who are doing an extremely difficult job, puts them under more pressure, and they can't defend themselves from it.

All good points. A myriad of factors behind it to be honest, either way, it's not corruption or preferential treatment and it reeks of bitterness when people wheel out those kinds of excuses. Especially professionals e.g. Tony Pulis after they conceded two clear penalties to us at OT this season.
 
All good points. A myriad of factors behind it to be honest, either way, it's not corruption or preferential treatment and it reeks of bitterness when people wheel out those kinds of excuses. Especially professionals e.g. Tony Pulis after they conceded two clear penalties to us at OT this season.

Premier League managers giving it legitimacy by coming out with shit like that just make matters worse. I can understand why the FA don't act on it, but I wish they would.
 
OP may well be a Red WUM given the number of times he uses the word 'massive'...

Well, he does have over 4000 posts. Pretty dedicated if he's a WUM.

I'd argue that the explanation for that perception is that big teams are more likely to take advantage of a decision going their way than small teams.

Take Stoke today, they scored from a corner they should have have got, lost anyway, nothing's made of it. If they win that game, even if they win it 3-1, then that's the turning point, that's what the game hinged on. On the other hand, we had a game against Spurs in 2009 where we were 2-0 down, got a dodgy penalty and came back to win 5-2, if that'd been a side like Derby or someone like that, they would probably have still lost 3-1 or something, and nothing would have been made of it. In the same season Ronaldo got sent off at Eastlands because Howard Webb made a technical error as far as the rules are concerned, we won anyway and nothing was made of it.

Good point.
 
Wow. Just wow. It took 32 posts for someone to call his sheer idiocy. Is this a sign that they're clearly worried?

they are playing like royal turds as shown in Europa.. yet in the EPL they can play like turds and get 2 penalties in a game all the time and win games based off penalties.. sad.

Other than Chelsea, can someone tell me when we've had two pens in a game? There's exaggeration, then there's taking the piss.

In fact, read through the thread again, but imagine it was on redcafe. Same content, different website, and it's a fairly funny read.

I recall a time when that sort of shit would annoy me, now I'm just :annoyed:

I know that is the annoyed smilie, but it's as close to my reaction as there is.
 
Wow. Just wow. It took 32 posts for someone to call his sheer idiocy. Is this a sign that they're clearly worried?



Other than Chelsea, can someone tell me when we've had two pens in a game? There's exaggeration, then there's taking the piss.

In fact, read through the thread again, but imagine it was on redcafe. Same content, different website, and it's a fairly funny read.

I recall a time when that sort of shit would annoy me, now I'm just :annoyed:

I know that is the annoyed smilie, but it's as close to my reaction as there is.

The game before the chelsea one, against stoke we had 2 penalties as well :lol:
To be fair though we should have had about 4 that day, but it was still quite funny to see all the other fans complain about 4 penalties in a row for us, but they don't realize that they were all deserved, they assume right away its a conspiracy.
 
The game before the chelsea one, against stoke we had 2 penalties as well :lol:
To be fair though we should have had about 4 that day, but it was still quite funny to see all the other fans complain about 4 penalties in a row for us, but they don't realize that they were all deserved, they assume right away its a conspiracy.

Ah yes of course, Stoke (the game where we should have actually had three, if not four like you say), knew I was forgetting one. Besides, we didn't even win the game at Stamford Bridge, we drew. But hey, let's conveniently leave out the Newcastle game, which nicely 'evens things up' (I promised myself I wasn't going to do that, far too easy).
 
It's only this season that we've been getting the penalties correctly. During title run-ins in the past I remember quite a few occasions we've been denied stone wall spot kicks which had Fergie up in arms. Rob Styles in particular always did his utmost not to annoy us.
 
How can you stop X company making a ridiculous sponsorship deal? Are you going to audit their accounts in detail? What right does UEFA have to do that?

Cap sponsorship revenue? What about ticket prices? The Sheikh can go sell a whole stand for a 1K per ticket, he buys them then sells them on through the web or something silly. How do you stop that? What right do you have to tell people how it would be reasonable to spend their money?

I think they already have stepped in over the sponsorship deal City had...If i recall correctly it doesn't tie in the FFP rules.

I'd also reckon Uefa would have every right to step in and have a butchers...if City want to play in their lucrative European elite tournament.
 
It's only this season that we've been getting the penalties correctly. During title run-ins in the past I remember quite a few occasions we've been denied stone wall spot kicks which had Fergie up in arms. Rob Styles in particular always did his utmost not to annoy us.

Not to mention that offside Drogba goal at Old Trafford that cost us the title.
 
Selective memory, we scored a goal via handball about a minute after that.

Doesn't really matter. Had Drogba's goal not happened we would've had a 1 goal deficit to overturn rather than 2. That's a big difference mentally without even going into causality.
 
How can you stop X company making a ridiculous sponsorship deal? Are you going to audit their accounts in detail? What right does UEFA have to do that?

Cap sponsorship revenue? What about ticket prices? The Sheikh can go sell a whole stand for a 1K per ticket, he buys them then sells them on through the web or something silly. How do you stop that? What right do you have to tell people how it would be reasonable to spend their money?

You won't be able to do any of that. Like for example the rich owner "sponsoring" the half-time oranges for £100 million. And yes of course UEFA will be allowed to audit club accounts.
 
Ha ha, it used to annoy me that other fans played the 'league is corrupt card' for their own teams shortcomings. Nowadays I have reached the stage where the more controversial a win for United is, the better. I hope we score five penalties in extra time. I hope other teams have perfectly good goals against us ruled out. I hope they get cheap red cards. I hope the ref plays feckin basketball and bundles it over the line for us. The more controversial the better, all because it pisses everyone else off.
 
Ha ha, it used to annoy me that other fans played the 'league is corrupt card' for their own teams shortcomings. Nowadays I have reached the stage where the more controversial a win for United is, the better. I hope we score five penalties in extra time. I hope other teams have perfectly good goals against us ruled out. I hope they get cheap red cards. I hope the ref plays feckin basketball and bundles it over the line for us. The more controversial the better, all because it pisses everyone else off.

Scoring in Fergie Time always tastes the sweetest.
 
Doesn't really matter. Had Drogba's goal not happened we would've had a 1 goal deficit to overturn rather than 2. That's a big difference mentally without even going into causality.

Yeah, and we had a 1 goal deficit a minute after that. If anything I'd say that psychological advantage laid with us after we'd come back from 2, proved we could score past them, got the crowd going.

Drogba's goal was a huge suckerpunch that shouldn't have happened, we were all over them prior to that.
If it was a sucker-punch how did we score immediately after it?
Although you used selective memory yourself above, in the Tottenham 5-2 game, Palacios should have been sent off for an awful two footed tackle early on.

Yes he should, and it supports my point, I just didn't think it was necessary to make the point. When a side who benefits from an incorrect decision goes on to lose regardless nothing gets made of it.
 
:lol::lol:

The paranoid delusion in the corruption thread rages on. They've taken to infighting and calling each other 'closet rags' now. Some of them are convinced the entire season is an intricate conspiracy against them

These naysayers just don't want to believe that the game they love is corrupt.

And by that this doesn't mean that every game is rigged its far more subtle and clever than that.

The evidence 'for' this being the case is overwhelming this season, I didn't just reach this conclusion on the basis of nothing, I don't just believe that to be the case because we are currently second (in fact most of us have been saying it whilst we have been top of the league)

And it isn't because the rags are playing well, it's precisely the opposite, they continually play poorly in games and yet come out winning.

Even the recent Spurs game there was a disallowed goal that would have put Spurs one nil up. What may have been the outcome had that goal been given, or West Broms penalty when it was still nil nil.

These decisions are crucial in the outcome of the league and whilst the rags have been continually getting decisions in their favour we continually get them against us.

Why ? I truly hope we get every dodgy decision going in the remaining games to prove that things even themselves out but I won't be holding my breath.

I would like nothing more than to come back on here and say I was wrong, but what I won't do is hold my hands over my ears close my eyes and shout loudly because I don't want to believe the game I love is not being gerrymandered to affect the outcome.