I think, in this episode anyway, that he's over-acting the character intentionally. We have to remember, this is well before he started cooking with Walt. He's a complete meth head and probably a year younger than he was when we first met him in Breaking Bad. So yeah, the Jesse we see her doesn't quite match with the majority of how we saw him in BB but I think Paul has done pretty well to portray how Jesse would have been at that point in time.
Television Better Call Saul | Includes Breaking Bad Spoilers
- Thread starter Kinky Melinky
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I think, in this episode anyway, that he's over-acting the character intentionally. We have to remember, this is well before he started cooking with Walt. He's a complete meth head and probably a year younger than he was when we first met him in Breaking Bad. So yeah, the Jesse we see her doesn't quite match with the majority of how we saw him in BB but I think Paul has done pretty well to portray how Jesse would have been at that point in time.
Isn’t that scene meant to be after when Emilio got busted in the ride-along Walt did, so around the time Jesse met Walt but obviously a fair bit before Saul was introduced to BB?
It's 2004, BB starts in 2008. I'm not overly bothered by the age thing, given you know where you are and it's hardly de-aged De Niro bad. It's addition is heavily for the fanbase, I mean it works in the story, but it didn't need it. So doesn't bother me that much that Paul isn't in the same place as an actor to pull that immaturity off anymore.
Emilio ain't walking into a lawyer's office after that bust!
Also, when Jesse first brings Walt to Saul's office he tells him that Saul "got Emilio off, like twice". So yeah, this is well before the BB timeline.
Well he was back at Krazy-8’s house in pretty short order when Jesse went round to try and sell him the results of the first cook!
Fair enough though, thanks.
One more episode left. 
At first, I agreed with those who say that the last few episodes were flat. But now I think that this was intentional and actually works quite well. It fits with the colorless lives of the protagonists and their despair. They messed up so badly, there is really no way to redeem themselves. All the other characters are dead, died in BB or before that, the only remaining catharsis is "Saul Gone".
Outstanding episode this week. Looking forward to the finale.
Well, watching an unsuspecting guy you've been bullying get shot through the head by a drug trafficker in your living room could change you.
That’s supposed to be him during season 1 BB.
edit: Mistake, could be before just read comment about Emilio being saved twice.
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Waterworks was great episode.
It’s funny but in show where you have the cartels, drug dealing, murder, etc I was actually wondering what did Kim do that technically illegal… then I remembered Fraud, perverting the course of justice, covering up a murder, etc etc suppose that’s the power of relativity.
Jimmy at the end waschilling, he was gonna hit the guy over the head, then really looked like he was gonna strangle the lady very dark turn. Not a side I imagine he had, with Walter he always had that fed up, annoyed at being looked down on by people he thought he was superior to feel. But Jimmy, in those two situations even after breaking bad you’d expect him to run or hide but never consider murder
It’s funny but in show where you have the cartels, drug dealing, murder, etc I was actually wondering what did Kim do that technically illegal… then I remembered Fraud, perverting the course of justice, covering up a murder, etc etc suppose that’s the power of relativity.
Jimmy at the end waschilling, he was gonna hit the guy over the head, then really looked like he was gonna strangle the lady very dark turn. Not a side I imagine he had, with Walter he always had that fed up, annoyed at being looked down on by people he thought he was superior to feel. But Jimmy, in those two situations even after breaking bad you’d expect him to run or hide but never consider murder
Yup….. yup……… yup
I mean it took 6 years for her to get to that..... if anything should be bothering you, it should of been her walking out a few episodes back no?
The show is much better binged. It’s been night and day going from watching weekly to letting this half season pile up (although the pace has picked up in the second half)
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Yeah, it was confirmed on the Better Call Saul Insider podcast too that he is supposed to be "much younger" than when we meet him in BB.
I think Lalo was so charismatic and entertaining that he basically stole the show for 2 seasons. Him dying has left me feel a bit deflated with the episodes since.
If he’s a year younger why does he look like Karl Pilkington? Huh? Explain that.
He's taking subpar meth made in a contaminated lab with chilli p, yo.
I am not sure why we see few years younger Jesse in this season than the one we've seen in eoisode before where he was already cooking meth with Walt? Why are we getting 4th timeline all of a sudden?
More timelines than characters at this point.
The last episode was powerful drama but
it is less entertaining in the absence of Lalo, Gus, Mike, Howard etc. BB had a similar dynamic in that it peaked with Ozymandias but there were only 2 episodes after that. Maybe they should have condensed these Nebraska black and white episodes
I wouldn't say it's better than Breaking Bad but it's obviously subjective. It's different; perhaps more intricate, certainly very entertaining but more of a slow burn. I didn't enjoy the early seasons.
Honestly the Chuck storyline was for me the weakest part of an otherwise very good series, like I said it burns slowly but it picked up for me later on. The last 2 seasons have been outstanding.
Honestly the Chuck storyline was for me the weakest part of an otherwise very good series, like I said it burns slowly but it picked up for me later on. The last 2 seasons have been outstanding.
Probably to show Kim was out before the whole Walter stuff
Well, shouldn't we get that in the episode from last week, and the RV episode scene this week then? It would make more sense tbf.
yeah, this a is far more of a ‘problem’ continuity wise than the age or out of place-ness of Jesse IMO… the progression to this simmering sociopathic Saul works with how we’ve left him in prequel BCS timeline, but it doesn’t remotely chime with the intervening 4 years of outwardly breezy and cowardly under pressure Saul from Breaking Bad
The last time we see him in that, he’s slinking away from a confrontation with a defeated and dying Walt… the BCS Saul would’ve at least used the opportunity for a bit of verbal grandstanding. Which has always been a bit of a baked in problem for the show, as the lead started it as a mostly identical version of the character
It definitely isn’t. I’ve never really got people saying that. And no one really does in the wider cultural landscape. It’s more of an “acshully guys” opinion… and I can sort of understand it in isolation. It is after all a largely much better made show, considering it’s produced by exactly the same people, all operating at a higher game than they were at the start of BB, and with more nuanced writing, but it also doesn’t really have any dynamic urgency about its storytelling on the whole..
BB, for example, had 5 very distinct seasons where you could not just point to the different arcs and tone of each one, but to the progression of each of the characters, whereas watching BCS is more like stewing in that world for a bit. Each season is kind of the same (at least until the last one) and Jimmy/Saul is relatively the same character throughout. You could’ve ended it after season 1 and it wouldn’t seem weird that Saul in BB was how he was. If anything the changes (which have been good outside of that context) have only made it weirder, as he’s mostly just flit between 70% Saul and 90% Saul at different points up until now, and even Kim’s descent only really kicks in S4 (it’s really about her, or his affect on her, if you’re looking for progression)
You got the Chuck stuff at the beginning and the Lalo stuff at the end to give it some identity and personality but it’s rather meandering by design. I can’t really remember what happened in the middle, and couldn’t point to “that moment in S2 or S3” for example as something to signpost it’s highlights. It does all build to a good final season crescendo, but a lot of it before then feels like a Breaking Bad VR experience at times.
Though weirdly unlike a lot of people I kinda like the weird stuff they’re doing at the end. It helps give it something to distinguish it. It’s bold, even if it’s a bit odd and slow so far (the show is slow. You’ve just gotta get over that. it is what it is.) Which was actually my only real gripe with how BB ended - that it was a relatively conventional finale for all the mad shit that happened before.
BCS is still a great show, but only an all time great on a mostly technical level.
It would be interesting to see if anyone watched this without seeing BB, and whether this last stretch makes any sense at all…
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I agree. The only thing I can think of to give this turn some plausibility.. is that Lalo changed him… but in BB we only see him around major criminals or people he considers major criminals so he chooses humour & cowardice because deep down he fears organised crime figures. But against “normal people” he can be violent / sociopathic. Basically a selective & cowardly bully.
But then as you pointed out that type of person would have told Walter what he thought in that scene when they were waiting to escape.
Anyone has seen last episode?
If the finale has been leaked, how good is the quality?
No it’s not leaked, i though the episode is out.
Doesn't it air this evening in the US? On Netflix in UK tomorrow.
Very good analysis and captures some of how my thoughts about the show. It is very well made but the plot progress in first 3 seasons was definitely a problem. I also have never been super invested in the Gus cartel side of things since there are basically no stakes in that storyline given we know the end state of most people. Nacho and Lalo, the only new characters introduced, were always either going to die or land in some long term Jail sentence. I also could not care less how the lab was made or any of the storyline around it. Gus-Lalo battle was very well done and you could see the creators making Lalo the villain they wish they had in the last season of BB, instead of the generic Neo Nazi group, but again you know Gus is going to win.
I may be the only one but I feel this show would have had much better re-watch potential if it was completely disconnected from BB universe.
Disappointing that it will be the final episode, but there is a small part of me that is over the show & it seems to be just dragging out.
Yeah the lab stuff is a good example really. I actually liked that - It’s incredibly well done, and adds some interesting stuff to Mike’s character and the BB World - but it’s supplementary material. Im very aware that I was more patient with it because I knew what it was, and if you hadnt watched BB (I dunno why you’d be watching this if you hadn’t, but lets just say) you’d probably be incredibly frustrated with why we were spending so much energy on it and end up thinking “So, what was all that ultimately for then?” It does kinda pay off with Lalo, but this show will never show us what this thing actually is and why it’s so important.
It’d be like having a very engrossing and dramatic half season arc about the tragic previous owner of the RV, who we eventually find out left the ashes of Heul’s former partner in the glove compartment… Cool. But, like, why are we supposed to care about this RV? And couldn’t this have just been a really good bottle episode?
Again, none of this is saying BCS isn’t great, but I don’t personally think it can ever be called better than BB, because so much of it’s enjoyment is derived from building on things BB introduced and made you care about. You can’t really watch it properly without having seen that (again, why would you?) but you can watch BB on its own merit. Even all the really rich stuff about Gus & the cartels is done in a couple of flashbacks in BB, with them killing his lover. Nothing in 2 and a half seasons of BCS is really as impactful as that. It’s just very nicely made tension.
It’s hard to make these points without seeming to rag on the show, when I do think it’s largely excellent and the faults are just basically baked into it & they’ve done almost as well as could possibly have been done with a prequel that has so many BB characters in it. Other than just not have so many BB characters in it, I guess? But then, would we care as much? Questions questions…
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I’m sure there’s some people who’ve said in here they’ve watched this without having seen BB, right? Which is just weird.
I'm not reading this thread because I'm only 4 eps in but do I love this series. I'm not sure I'd have been able to get into it without watching BB, though. Can't think of anything better on TV.
Yea, I think I differ on the lab storyline and Mike's character arc within BCS also. I saw BB in its OG run and have seen it once since then as well, in my top 5 shows of all time but I really did not need a whole arc around the making of the lab. At best some nod to it in a singular episode would have worked for me. Mike's character beats are basically an expanded version of "Criminal with Honour" motif. We already saw that part in BB, especially with his relationship with Jessie in S4, which is reflected again in his relationship with Nacho. I found his back story arcs in S1 much more interesting than any of the work he does with Gus with some kind of self imposed code that does not really make a difference in the end.
You captured why I am indifferent to Gus storyline though since there is absolutely no pay off to anything within this show. Heck they don't even expand on Gus' origin story so that you get more context on the beginning of his relationship with cartel.
Most reviewers now say that these two series should be seen as companion pieces which I guess is fine but I really can't see myself re-watching 120+ 40-60 mins episodes in future. I would rather just re-watch 60+ of Breaking Bad which is a much better paced self contained series.
As good as this series is, I doubt I'll do a full re-watch as I just remember the earlier series being a little slow burn. That might change with a binge watch, but even so, I'm not sure I could watch the whole "Bloke wrapped in tin foil" story line all over again.
Yeah, Chuck's storyline is easily the worst part of the show. It doesn't help that he is not likeable at all, in hindsight if he was more likeable guy with tinfoil problem then he could be more interesting. But he was absolute robot.
He won an award for it recently and I was thinking, has he actually won it for the this? Or is it for the general character of Gus Fring? Cos he’s just kind of in this. Existing… for 3 seasons…
As you rightly point out, Mike is basically just repeating his arc over and over again - as is essentially Jimmy/Saul - but at least it is an arc, and you could quite plausibly say that Walt and Jesse repeated the same basic learning curves several times throughout BB…. And they did at least have a beginning and end. Gus has a beginning and end too, but they’re ALSO both in BB! So he’s just…. There, in this. Being kind of cool.
And anyone who says the little scene we got of him reflecting over a glass of wine and a brief bit of flirting is a better bit of character drama that teaches us more about him than seeing him meet the cartel, watch his lover die, and then risk his life for an immaculately plotted revenge against them all, years in the making, all in one episode is - let’s be honest - a massive lying ponce.