Its like the 20th page and you still choose not to listen. Bernardo being ignorant is not an excuse. If he didnt know he will now after whatever punishment the FA deems necessary. If a western man was disrespectful to asian culture Im pretty sure he would suffer the same consequences in that culture and would learn moving forward. Its why its good to be more aware when you decide to leave your own culture to move to a different foreign culture. He was racist and thats all that matters. Him being ignorant is his own personal problem.
Bernardo Silva | Man City Player
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
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Its like the 20th page and you still choose not to listen. Bernardo being ignorant is not an excuse. If he didnt know he will now after whatever punishment the FA deems necessary. If a western man was disrespectful to asian culture Im pretty sure he would suffer the same consequences in that culture and would learn moving forward. Its why its good to be more aware when you decide to leave your own culture to move to a different foreign culture. He was racist and thats all that matters. Him being ignorant is his own personal problem.
The Ottoman Empire didn't enslave people because they were white, and didn't discriminate (widely) on this basis. They would enslave people of any race as long as captives of war or conquest were fair game, so it's not comparable to a certain race of people being treated as subhuman and therefore enslaved, and doesn't carry the same weight. Quite often, captives would be indoctrinated in to Islam and then could rise to prestigious positions in the Ottoman military & courts, regardless of their ethnicity. This doesn't make the practise any less inhuman, but the context is very different.
And yes, Irish people still do complain about the way Ireland was treated under British rule, that's very much a thing. But again, whilst Irish citizens would have been discriminated against as lower classes, there was never really widespread belief that they were a subhuman race. You had some relatively popular racial theories in Britain which declared Irishmen a sub-race, but this was nowhere near as widespread as basically the entirety of Europe/America deciding that an entire race of people weren't really people at all.
Just had a look at what city fans on blue moon had to say about it. Absolute train wreck of a thread.
For example, in attempt to prove how ‘sensitive’ the world is now and that stuff such as that cartoon caricature was funny in the 70’s, one poster mentioned that back then he even used to have a family cat called the n word (the poster actually spelt out the whole word, with the ‘er’ at the end)... and none of the other posters seemed to bat an eyelid
For example, in attempt to prove how ‘sensitive’ the world is now and that stuff such as that cartoon caricature was funny in the 70’s, one poster mentioned that back then he even used to have a family cat called the n word (the poster actually spelt out the whole word, with the ‘er’ at the end)... and none of the other posters seemed to bat an eyelid
Other threads been locked but victor anichebe actually seemed upset talking about this issue on sky and there you have pep blaming the media etc for victimising silva
So if this was fine, why do people get upset at the monkey chants in Serie A or other racial abuse from the stands in England or on social media? It's all banter isn't it? The Chelsea fan who got banned for abusing Sterling will probably argue that he was just making a joke and people shouldn't get offended by everything.
What Bernardo did was wrong, and I do think he should face punishment for it, but I don't think it's fair to compare it to people who are using race as a weapon. Silva made some tasteless jokes to a friend on a public platform, the people who do monkey chants or abuse players from the stands are trying to use Sterling's race to dehumanise and attack him. There's a massive difference in intent and that's why even though I think everybody should be able to accept he made a mistake, what he did doesn't really deserve comparison to the people in your examples.
I agree completely.
Haven’t done a TL;DR but some ramblings of mine.
This whole race thing is getting completely out of hand, but this is what the world has come to. You can no longer make offensive jokes, even unintentionally. I mean, one minute we are being screamed at by black people for anything moderately insinuating racial undertones, the next we’re being told oh wait a minute thats actually okay what he did this time.
Lets take a look at a few examples:
Man (most presume) innocently posts a funny picture of a monkey leaving a hospital in posh human clothes on twitter comparing him to privileged Royal baby. Loses his job. Racist.
Gollywog dolls - racist if you own them.
Posting a picture of a cartoon black guy with massive red lips comparing to a black friend. Not racist.
Blackface - Sorry white kid, you want to dress up as a character you like? Well you fecking can’t, because that character is black. You probably wasn’t aware the colour of his skin would be an issue for your decision but to obviously look like said person we would have to paint your face black, obviously, and that’s not allowed because it would be insensitive and racist.
Then my other issue is this, i see some one I don’t like and i feel like abusing him. I call him a C***. No one bats an eye lid. I see a ginger person i don’t like, i call him a ginger C***. Acceptable again. Maybe he’s fat and bald, now he’s a bald fat C***. All acceptable and no judgement held against that person apart from clearly being an intolerable arsehole. But, call him a black C*** now means he’s racist. What is the difference in all these scenario’s? Why is the last one lower than the rest of them? He’s using the colour of his skin sure, but the others are dehumanising in the exact same way, yet nobody will give it a seconds thought.
Down to the over all issue, Silva most likely isn’t racist, but he’s very clearly uneducated in what is an acceptable way to act as a human. People are losing their jobs over similar instances. I was told by a lecturer of mine a while ago that an ex-colleague of hers was dismissed because he told a group of kids to “stop monkeying around” and a minority of them were black. He’s a racist.
Where do we draw the line? Will people who abuse others based on the colour of their hair or if they’re fat be sacked from their jobs if found guilty? And be looked upon by their peers in a similar light to those who are judged as being racist? Either we numb everything down and people stop getting offended by every single thing that could be slightly construed as inappropriate, or we escalate it further and throw the book at anyone who is mean ever again whether they didn’t realise it or not. Because its beyond stupid now.
Either we let Silva carry on being the uneducated, ignorant person he seems to be and everyone lets him off with it, like Sterling has done today despite previously being such a strong advocate for kicking racism out of football. Or we try and ruin his career and ban him for a few months for his ignorance. Im not trying to diminish any of the work Raheem had done to highlight the obvious issues with fans being racist in the stands, but don’t be a fecking hypocrite and say “oh what he did wasn’t racist for me” when if it happened in any other industry in the UK the guy would have been vilified. I say again, where do we draw the line?
There’s no right or wrong in my book personally. Its just a total mind feck of a situation we have got ourselves in to. And please before anyone replies i am not talking about monkey chants and obvious racism, but the ignorant type that is put in the same bracket as the worst of the worst.
Do i feel for Silva? No. I would never be stupid enough like him to do that, and its unfair to put that spotlight on any black friend comparing them with pictures or cartoons of black people with stereotypical racial features. The guy was being harmless and it was an innocent mistake, but we as a generation are having to pay for these mistakes now.
Lets take a look at a few examples:
Man (most presume) innocently posts a funny picture of a monkey leaving a hospital in posh human clothes on twitter comparing him to privileged Royal baby. Loses his job. Racist.
Gollywog dolls - racist if you own them.
Posting a picture of a cartoon black guy with massive red lips comparing to a black friend. Not racist.
Blackface - Sorry white kid, you want to dress up as a character you like? Well you fecking can’t, because that character is black. You probably wasn’t aware the colour of his skin would be an issue for your decision but to obviously look like said person we would have to paint your face black, obviously, and that’s not allowed because it would be insensitive and racist.
Then my other issue is this, i see some one I don’t like and i feel like abusing him. I call him a C***. No one bats an eye lid. I see a ginger person i don’t like, i call him a ginger C***. Acceptable again. Maybe he’s fat and bald, now he’s a bald fat C***. All acceptable and no judgement held against that person apart from clearly being an intolerable arsehole. But, call him a black C*** now means he’s racist. What is the difference in all these scenario’s? Why is the last one lower than the rest of them? He’s using the colour of his skin sure, but the others are dehumanising in the exact same way, yet nobody will give it a seconds thought.
Down to the over all issue, Silva most likely isn’t racist, but he’s very clearly uneducated in what is an acceptable way to act as a human. People are losing their jobs over similar instances. I was told by a lecturer of mine a while ago that an ex-colleague of hers was dismissed because he told a group of kids to “stop monkeying around” and a minority of them were black. He’s a racist.
Where do we draw the line? Will people who abuse others based on the colour of their hair or if they’re fat be sacked from their jobs if found guilty? And be looked upon by their peers in a similar light to those who are judged as being racist? Either we numb everything down and people stop getting offended by every single thing that could be slightly construed as inappropriate, or we escalate it further and throw the book at anyone who is mean ever again whether they didn’t realise it or not. Because its beyond stupid now.
Either we let Silva carry on being the uneducated, ignorant person he seems to be and everyone lets him off with it, like Sterling has done today despite previously being such a strong advocate for kicking racism out of football. Or we try and ruin his career and ban him for a few months for his ignorance. Im not trying to diminish any of the work Raheem had done to highlight the obvious issues with fans being racist in the stands, but don’t be a fecking hypocrite and say “oh what he did wasn’t racist for me” when if it happened in any other industry in the UK the guy would have been vilified. I say again, where do we draw the line?
There’s no right or wrong in my book personally. Its just a total mind feck of a situation we have got ourselves in to. And please before anyone replies i am not talking about monkey chants and obvious racism, but the ignorant type that is put in the same bracket as the worst of the worst.
Do i feel for Silva? No. I would never be stupid enough like him to do that, and its unfair to put that spotlight on any black friend comparing them with pictures or cartoons of black people with stereotypical racial features. The guy was being harmless and it was an innocent mistake, but we as a generation are having to pay for these mistakes now.
You should note that it’s not just black people who are pointing out the offensiveness of Silva’s post, there’s plenty of posters of all backgrounds who have condemned it. And this is the real problem when it comes to discussing race, some immediately make it an us vs them issue and any hope of constructive conversation goes out of the window. I’m guilty of this sometimes and it’s really not conducive to a reasonable discussion.
I know. My post lacks coherence in places because i can’t decide what myself what’s right and what’s wrong. I judge him for being stupid and naive but I don’t think he’s racist, but the fact he’s sharing stuff like that that could make someone like Mendy feel awkward and internally pretty upset annoys me more than the rest of it. I guess its the ignorance that he’s getting away with that annoys me because the rest of us make an effort to educate ourselves so we don’t upset our friends and peers. But i also don’t like why we draw the line at racism and not go further when abusing other walks of life like ginger people, fat people or bald people.
Im bald, and i have to laugh off bald jokes and slaphead jokes. Im pretty thick skinned about it, but why should black people have more of a right to stand up to abuse than someone like myself? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want someone sacked for joking about my lack of hair, but i also don’t want someone persecuted because he made a joke about the size of a black persons lips. Its a pretty confusing place because on the same hand I don’t want said black person to feel victimised.
This guy just likened male-pattern baldness to racism. Yes everybody, baldness to racism. One more time people, BALDNESS TO RACISM!
I spent days in the Pogba & Lukaku threads & actively stayed out of this aside an anecdotal story about a Portuguese man I once knew but honestly how am I as a black man meant to respectfully respond to this kind of discourse.
“I don’t want someone sacked for making fun of my baldness but I also don’t want someone sacked for making fun of the size of a black persons lips”
This forum is a mirror of society and society is full of racists. Make of that statement what you will.
I’ve honestly just read someone comparing race to baldness
Ummm maybe because bald people haven’t faced hundreds of years of dehumanisation and discrimination which has lead to things like slavery, being segregated, being denied jobs, facing police brutality etc.It's like, what is there to say?
Worst take so far. Impressed.
Jesus wept. Have a word with yourself. It's not a confusing place at all if you apply even an ounce of rational and reasonable thought. People who are black face very real barriers in everyday life that they have to overcome. You do not face the same because you are bald and frankly it's baffling you have the audacity to even compare the two, and it suggests that you are more sensitive about the comments than you care to admit. If you can't understand the difference between jokes about someone being bald and comments about something like skin colour or sexuality then you really need to educate yourself.
His action wasnt racist, he just broke a cultural taboo. Something that has been enforced to stop marginalisation of a minority.
If he did it in private with Mendy accepting of this type of joke it's ok... In a way it's post racist behaviour. But to put it on a public space legitimizes it for people who could use it in a harmful situation.
To summarize, he broke a socially accepted rule which is in place to prevent discrimination against a minority.
Edit: having read the def. of racism, placing his post in the public domain was antagonistic therefore racist. Intentional or not.
If he did it in private with Mendy accepting of this type of joke it's ok... In a way it's post racist behaviour. But to put it on a public space legitimizes it for people who could use it in a harmful situation.
To summarize, he broke a socially accepted rule which is in place to prevent discrimination against a minority.
Edit: having read the def. of racism, placing his post in the public domain was antagonistic therefore racist. Intentional or not.
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Think I’m just going to stick with the line. This forum is a mirror of society & society is full of racists.
As a black man I have a sense of apprehension when discussing this topic on here because the second you discuss race an overwhelming amount of ‘reasonable’ [I assume, an for this assumption I will NOT apologise] white members irrationally jump to the defence of whoever the subject matter is as if discussing race means you are labelling someone a racist.
I’m yet to see in the Pogba, Lukaku or Silva thread any member explicitly call someone ‘a racist’ [I don’t read every post so it may have happened] but I regularly see members definitively stating that ‘so & so’ is not a racist & people need to ‘lighten up’. I stayed away from this thread because of this but honestly people can get it both barrels if they want to say they’re not ‘a mirror of society’ & state such crap.
A member just likened race to baldness & said he doesn’t want people sacked for insulting black features because some people have insulted their baldness. As if black people not go bald!
I have 3 warning points on this forum, 1 for a lack of punctuation & one because I defended Pogba in a race fuelled thread. How in the hell is a post like that not moderated!?
It happens thread after thread, posts like that aren’t some uneducated gentleman in need of a little guidance. If you think the fact you can’t grow hair [something that affects all races] is in anyway comparable to a persons race & their experiences then you are ‘a mirror of society’.
Guardiola was interviewed by musician Johnny Marr recently:
Again that Pep quote reads to me like he's saying its a problem that people just need to get used to? Instead of try and tackle and destroy it? Ugly ugly stuff.
It gets into a long conversation but I think he is probably right that there will always be racism. It comes across to me as more of a call to remain vigilant which is fair as tribalism is as old as the species.
Sadly, its the usual culprits in here. On the flip side, there are a number of members on here who get it, and understand the complexities of racism. So, yes, there is hope.
Back to Bernardo, hopefully he understands now, how what he did was seen as offensive by some. Learn a lesson, be contrite, and move on. There arent calls to vilify the guy, nor are many, if any, calling him a racist.
unnecessary, but definitely not posted with racist intent.
I think its clear that Silva isn't racist, however the post and video he made certainly have racist connotations.
It will be very interesting to see how the FA react to this. He should be looking at a minimum 6-8 match ban based on previous similar offences.
It will be very interesting to see how the FA react to this. He should be looking at a minimum 6-8 match ban based on previous similar offences.
Uh oh.
Like everything these days, someone will get upset with something. Social Media and the Media are to blame. If Silva had shown Mandy the cartoon in the changing rooms, we would have known nothing about it but he stuck it onto a public forum full of people waiting to criticise. I don’t know if it’s racist anymore than Boris calling Muslim women out looking ‘like letter boxes’. Both incidents meet John Barnes view on the Silva post as he said on TV that it wasn’t racist because the cartoon did look like Mandy.
City will deny any wrongdoing as they always do, but it will be on Silva’s record with some fans. We now have the BBC reporting on the women’s game between Utd and Scousers that ‘Hillsborough chants’ were heard. In fact they were chants about Heysel but the BBC won’t want to offend the Scousers.
The world is full of good and bad people whatever race they are and that’s how it should be judged.a
City will deny any wrongdoing as they always do, but it will be on Silva’s record with some fans. We now have the BBC reporting on the women’s game between Utd and Scousers that ‘Hillsborough chants’ were heard. In fact they were chants about Heysel but the BBC won’t want to offend the Scousers.
The world is full of good and bad people whatever race they are and that’s how it should be judged.a
Such as? This is a pretty novel offence as far I'm aware.
Sterling is in an untenable position here. I take the guy by his word though & he doesn’t think the action was intended as racist.
Trouble is, you don’t have to be a racist to exhibit a racist action. Sick to death of the “he’s not a racist so what he did doesn’t matter”.
His post is a terrible one. I don’t care if he is racist or not, this was a ‘joke amongst friends’ that he chose to make public; we haven’t hacked his whatsapp.
It’s beyond a 6-8 game ban for me, I honestly don’t care if he’s banned at all. Someone needs to come out & say his post was inappropriate, end of. No caveat.
I’m done being polite about it, if ‘mirrors of society’ are going to be allowed to openly post on here without moderation then I’m done being the ‘reasonable, understanding black guy’. Time to call a spade a spade. [See what I did there].
That guy, I don’t even know his username, is the problem. It’s easier to interact with overt racists; that guy genuinely thinks he struggles as much as a black person [may] because he has an issue with his follicles.
Trouble is, you don’t have to be a racist to exhibit a racist action. Sick to death of the “he’s not a racist so what he did doesn’t matter”.
His post is a terrible one. I don’t care if he is racist or not, this was a ‘joke amongst friends’ that he chose to make public; we haven’t hacked his whatsapp.
It’s beyond a 6-8 game ban for me, I honestly don’t care if he’s banned at all. Someone needs to come out & say his post was inappropriate, end of. No caveat.
I remember sharing similar notions with you in the Pogba vs G.Nev thread.
I’m done being polite about it, if ‘mirrors of society’ are going to be allowed to openly post on here without moderation then I’m done being the ‘reasonable, understanding black guy’. Time to call a spade a spade. [See what I did there].
That guy, I don’t even know his username, is the problem. It’s easier to interact with overt racists; that guy genuinely thinks he struggles as much as a black person [may] because he has an issue with his follicles.
I’m going to request you clarify these points before I go on a tangent.
Is there a racism scale I’m unaware of?
Do Boris’ comments make Silva’s tweet less ‘racist’?
I’m genuinely lost as to what you’re getting at.
Sterling's too close to Bernardo to be objective about it. He doesn't want to give any oxygen to the idea that the post was racist because he worries that will enable people to criticise his friend as a racist. I sympathise with Sterling because he's been placed in a very difficult position. He could have handled it better, as could Pep, but he's basically got to navigate between the two pathways of allowing his friend and teammate to be, in his view, unjustly maligned as a racist, and allowing a clearly offensive and ignorant post pass without comment or criticism. He tried to hold the middle ground but ended up veering far too close to completely exonerating Bernardo of any responsibility.
Suarez got an 8 match ban. Forestieri got a 6 match ban.
The FA announced there would be a minimum of a 6 match ban for anyone found guilty of racist abuse from the start of this season.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49178952
Said in a far more eloquent way than I could have done.
Sterling should in no way be being asked these questions. Imagine being able to commit an offensive act & then have your teammate have to front up the press for you. Talk about privilege.
I don't think he said anything wrong and felt he covered all basis well with professional response.
1. He defended his friend/teammate as not being a racist
2. He said him and Mendy are good friends stuff like this probably happens regularly with them (fyi I'm not defending on of this or even think its right)
3. He said he understand how people who got offended by this feels
4. He also said B.Silva needs to be careful with what he says or posts and people needed to be smarter on SM.
John Barnes is one person and he doesn't speak for all black people. There are many black people who are uncomfortable with this, some even in here. Stop trying to minimize and downplay their right to react and feel.
I see you blame everyone, apart from Silvs himself, who was silly enough to air it to the whole world.
He's another tip, if muslim people are telling you that they find what Johnson did as racist, then it is. You don't get to decide for them and tell them it isnt. Privilege, rearing its head again.
John Barnes should be banned from these threads.
His a mouthpiece with no nuance & an unwavering need to feel ‘above’ it all.
Absolute pseudo intellectual who’s looking for approval in a fan base that rated his skills on the pitch but has seen him fall flat on his face off it.
Man is a clown, & in no way speaks for me as a black man.
Sterling isn’t in a difficult position at all. He’s a multimillionaire footballer with the world at his feet. He could easily have said “some things were said that sound bad even if they’re not meant that way.”
Amongst other things a white guy (Bernardo) PUBLICLY said that a black guy (Mendi) was “naked” because he was wearing dark clothes. That’s racist whether private or public.
Then a white guy (Pep) defends another white guy (Bernardo) by saying “he’s a good guy really”.
Raheem effectively says the same thing. He’s that black guy in a group of racist white friends wanting to stay friends rather than push back on their racism.
Sterling needs to be careful not to become a parody of himself here.
Totally agree. I’m brown guy and a Liverpool fan. John Barnes has spoken well in the past but sounded unhinged this week. He doesn’t speak for me either.
You're not seriously comparing what Bernardo has done to two footballers using racial slurs directly against an opponent on the football pitch, are you?