Being realistic

TheReligion

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Whilst I’m not suggesting EtH is above any sort of criticism I do feel many here seem to have been swept away by of success this season and it’s become more of a curse than a blessing to the manager.

United are third in the league, have won the league cup, are in an FA cup semi final and the quarters of European competition. Compared to last season we are doing extremely well.

To add to this we are missing a number of players for extended periods. Casemiro, Eriksen and Martial to name three.

By comparison how do we feel City would be faring without Rodri, KdB and Haaland or Arsenal without Partey, Odegaard and Jesus? Not one at a time, but all out together for prolonged periods?

I’m genuinely interested to know if we feel we are all guilty of having lost some perspective lately even more so when you consider Ten Hag has been at the club only 8 months. Not only that he was restricted heavily in January due to the ownership issues whilst every rival spent large sums of money to strengthen.
 
We are extremely guilty of having lost some perspective. I get that people have lost some patience during the years of Moyes, Jose and Ole, but we are really not in a situation where you can expect a new manager to suddenly take us from fighting for top 4 to challenging for the league title. Our issues are much deeper than that. Much has been said about EtH being bad at utilising the squad he has, but we really do have a thin squad beyond the starting XI. I would also love to see Bruno being rested but he's gotten the most minutes in all of Europe for a reason. The occasional shitting on the manager and the players is a bit disgusting. Some fans have found their comfort zones in misery.
 
I don't speak to many people around the ground that have lost perspective in truth. The general impression I get from people is that Erik is the man and we are already ahead of where we expected to be this season. Maybe some have on here but I have to be honest, I take most of what I read on here with a massive pinch of salt.

The vast majority of people I speak to would have been over the moon with "top 4 and a trophy" this season, which I have agreed with too, heck I'd have been happy with 5th or 6th & a Europa League win in truth as long as there was a general improvement in our play. So to have a trophy already secured in February, be in another quarter final and a semi final, as well as being third in the league having already played the top 2 home & away, is excellent. And all being done with a Burnley loanee up top ffs. :lol:

We're not there yet obviously, but the progress has been outstanding in my book. You make a great point about missing players for prolonged periods of time, the drop off without those players is stark as the replacements don't have the quality to enable us to continue to play the same way, but that's part of building a squad and will come.
 
I think it's just a few melts with an agenda that pop up anytime we have a poor performance.
 
Based on the tone of some of the criticism around the team, some people have definitely lost perspective.

At the start of the season the bookies were predicting we'd finish 6th. And for very good reason.

The promise of overachievement we've seen so far this season is to the manager and team's credit. But it shouldn't distract from the fact that it's still very early days in terms of dealing with the underlying problems that put us in that position.

Leaving aside what happens this season, when I see people say things like "signing Kane guarantees us a title challenge" I worry that people now have overblown short/medium -term expectations generally. In truth we could improve significantly over the summer and still end up some way behind the best teams in the league next year, in terms of either/both points or performances. There's zero guarantee that improvement will continue to be this linear, let alone this rapid.
 
Don't know about anyone else but I've properly enjoyed this season. First time in a long time I've watched United with a smile.

How some people can constantly look for the negatives when there are far more positives doesn't make sense to me but people are entitled to their views, as we are to challenge them.
 
i’d counter all that by saying he’s had an unprecedented level of backing. he’s been allowed to bring his own circus to old trafford. he’s been allowed to buy a south american dwarf and a blond jester. the tallest man in europe followed on loan in january. that’s before we get on to the great, undying dane and the brazilian ringmaster. i was only watching for the show ponies and he’s fecked off pogba and ronaldo.
 
After the horrors of last season, this one has surpassed all expectations for me and I can't remember another season I've enjoyed as much in a long time (probably since 12-13). I think i predicted we'd finish out of the top 4 but that we'd win the Europa League and I was definitely of the opinion that it might take a long time for everything to click and that we needed patience. Things have gone so much better than I anticipated and we're probably only a quarter of the way through a rebuild.

Its exciting to think what might happen when we have a proper central striker, a creative midfielder alongside Casemiro and someone finally makes that Right Wing spot their own :drool:
 
We can lose 12 of the remaining 15 games and still have a better season than last year, statistically.
 
One thing yesterday showed is that you need to back him in the market. You take 2 of his signings (Casemiro and Eriksen) out of the side and we’re back to average in midfield. Antony coming on again changed the game for us.

If he gets 3-4 players he wants in the summer then we can start to upgrade the deadwood and build a title challenging team.
 
I guess ETH is the first manager I've felt we might be heading in the right direction with. We seem to have an identity forming. I remember when Klopp first got to Liverpool, even though they were losing a lot, they were headed in the right direction (unfortunately).
I remember the 4-0 win against Chelsea near the start of Ole's full season, my buddy was getting exited. I just couldn't see it, Chelsea seemed to have a better identity and plan, and that was under Lampard. It was just a weird result. I could never see any identity under Ole and it just got worse and worse.
I think ETH is building to control games and is stubborn to change. It may be a bit early for that as we've seen against City and Liverpool this year, but hopefully come next year we can genuinely go into these games with a fully prepared team, sticking to an identity and have the tools to stick with it and not fall apart when playing the better teams etc.
 
Aside from any trophies we have or may win, the obvious improvement is that we actually play like a team, long time since that's happened, so praise for ETH is justified, he made that happen, he's made some mistakes of course but he's human, like the rest of us!
 
abailey123 said:
One thing yesterday showed is that you need to back him in the market. You take 2 of his signings (Casemiro and Eriksen) out of the side and we’re back to average in midfield. Antony coming on again changed the game for us.

If he gets 3-4 players he wants in the summer then we can start to upgrade the deadwood and build a title challenging team.
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Though according to some, Casemiro and Eriksen too old to be relied upon for very long and Antony is a waste of money!
 
@JB7 everything you said with the added "and also it looks like we are finally saying goodbye to those fecking yank nobheads at the top"
 
Agree. The thing is we’ve been so starved of any positivity of so many years now that people either get worried that it May be another false dawn or their expectations have reach SAF levels. But the reality is we are in a great space now and are actually playing as a team with some confidence. Can see us getting so much better when we acquire a few more players in the summer.
 
I think he’s done amazing and the drop in the quality of our play recently is probably down to the fixture list since the World Cup. Right now I watch us and it still looks like we are a long way from where he would like us in terms of keeping possession and the “routines” he commented Arsenal have had years to perfect in comparison to ourselves. I’m not even sure we have the players for that just yet. Possession Turnover to the opposition seems constant! That said I think coaching can only go so far you need to buy it in. Pep is often lorded as the best coach but does he actually even try to coach players not considered europes best? We have to stick with the majority of our bad buys and our line ups are pretty average lately. Abit unlucky with injuries but that happens. If Sancho and Antony hit the ground running we could have been closer this season. 9/10 for me for what he’s doing just a shame we couldn’t invest heavily in Jan.
 
We’ve played 25 games in 88 days since the World Cup ended. Of course we’re going to have days where we look lackluster. Even City’s ridiculous squad would find the fixture list we’ve had taxing. A win in Spain is usually a huge result (let alone one of the best Spanish sides) and it’s more than likely we’ll have a struggle 3 days later against one of the best sides this year who had a whole week to prepare. Arsenal will end the season playing 49 games. We’ve just played our 46th game this past weekend. Think about that.

I personally believe we will get better. Don’t forget ETH is still working with a lot of dross and the guy who was supposed to our main striker got himself sacked and he wasn’t good anymore anyway. We should not expect him to be a new Ferguson. It seems unlikely that a team can dominate and create a dynasty like Ferguson did, because there’s so much competition around now.

You can pretty much guarantee that the likes of Maguire and McTominay aren’t going to be here and they’ll be replaced with more suitable players. New owners whoever they may will be looking to make a statement as well.

Any half decent striker put into our team right now and we will look better. Put Mitrovic, Toney or Watkins in there and we’ll look better. A new striker should be absolute top priority in the summer.
 
It's easier to be 'right' if you whinge all the time. Fact is, only one team can win the league, only four teams can qualify for the Champions League, only two teams (potentially) can win a domestic cup. Given no team has ever won the quadruple and no team has ever won every single game they have played and given that 99% of managers are sacked at some point, saying that everything is rubbish or that so and so is overrated or general criticising everything means you'll probably be 'right' at some point.

I think that's the crux of it. This is an internet forum. The vast majority on here don't go to games. The vast majority don't live in and around Manchester. Therefore for some, being 'right' on the internet is more important than the feeling of enjoying going to games for the first time in ages, or the buzz about the Stretford End, or having likeable players, or looking like a well-coached side or not having to hide from talking about football in the office on a Monday morning!

Literally there's a generation of fans for whom 'internet banter' and being 'right' IS what 'supporting' a football team is about
 
Lentwood said:
It's easier to be 'right' if you whinge all the time. Fact is, only one team can win the league, only four teams can qualify for the Champions League, only two teams (potentially) can win a domestic cup. Given no team has ever won the quadruple and no team has ever won every single game they have played and given that 99% of managers are sacked at some point, saying that everything is rubbish or that so and so is overrated or general criticising everything means you'll probably be 'right' at some point.

I think that's the crux of it. This is an internet forum. The vast majority on here don't go to games. The vast majority don't live in and around Manchester. Therefore for some, being 'right' on the internet is more important than the feeling of enjoying going to games for the first time in ages, or the buzz about the Stretford End, or having likeable players, or looking like a well-coached side or not having to hide from talking about football in the office on a Monday morning!

Literally there's a generation of fans for whom 'internet banter' and being 'right' IS what 'supporting' a football team is about
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Well said
 
The change of expectancy is absolutely normal for any football fan.
If we were to be 6th out of all the cups and by some miracle we were to achieve 4th in the last game, everybody would say ETH is a genius and the season is great as we have qualified for CL.
But at the point where we are now, our fans want us to maintain at least the 3rd spot and win all the cups, which would be a small miracle in my opinion.
 
Chairman Steve said:
We’ve played 25 games in 88 days since the World Cup ended. Of course we’re going to have days where we look lackluster. Even City’s ridiculous squad would find the fixture list we’ve had taxing. A win in Spain is usually a huge result (let alone one of the best Spanish sides) and it’s more than likely we’ll have a struggle 3 days later against one of the best sides this year who had a whole week to prepare. Arsenal will end the season playing 49 games. We’ve just played our 46th game this past weekend. Think about that.

I personally believe we will get better. Don’t forget ETH is still working with a lot of dross and the guy who was supposed to our main striker got himself sacked and he wasn’t good anymore anyway. We should not expect him to be a new Ferguson. It seems unlikely that a team can dominate and create a dynasty like Ferguson did, because there’s so much competition around now.

You can pretty much guarantee that the likes of Maguire and McTominay aren’t going to be here and they’ll be replaced with more suitable players. New owners whoever they may will be looking to make a statement as well.

Any half decent striker put into our team right now and we will look better. Put Mitrovic, Toney or Watkins in there and we’ll look better. A new striker should be absolute top priority in the summer.
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The arsenal stat is mad to me, considering how thin our squad is, basically no main striker all season I think we are doing fine, I would have been happy making the CL this season.

Hopefully we can cement third place and win another cup, which would be a huge success in my eyes, even with some of the humbling awe have received by our rivals.
 
Darkhorsez said:
Agree. The thing is we’ve been so starved of any positivity of so many years now that people either get worried that it May be another false dawn or their expectations have reach SAF levels. But the reality is we are in a great space now and are actually playing as a team with some confidence. Can see us getting so much better when we acquire a few more players in the summer.
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Very true this team with a Kane or the likes this season would have hidden a lot of the flaws we are seeing all over the pitch. But I guess as a club we weren’t to know what would happen with Greenwood for example. Ronaldo investment was a poor choice but at the time I was happy to go there. Prob should have invested that elsewhere given funds were tight it transpired. It’s hard when you want to really capitalise on a season having Casemiro in your team as we won’t have that forever but I’m being greedy…we’ve had a cracking season above what I expected!
 
Yep, this season is a success if we just finish top 4 regardless of the other 2 cups. We already have a cup win. Anything on top is a bonus and just showing how good EtH is. With our squad to be in all competitions, winning so often despite many absences, it's just very impressive. He's shown he can adapt to cover the impact of injuries. He showed that every year at Ajax, their teams being ripped up every summer and he just adapted to still dominate, and he's shown it this season here.
 
Patience is the hardest word for most football supporters, but we have to apply a bit of it.
The difference from the last few years is massive. We suddenly have a lot more likeable players, and Ten Hag's made some superb signings.

The general look of the team suggests we're well on the right lines, if we can continue the level of signings this summer.

Quality striker and a new quality midfielder, both having the impact that Martinez and Casemiro have had, and we'll real
ly be on the cusp of challenging on all levels.
 
If you look at the posters who are most critical of ETH, you'll see a very obvious connection...
 
What exactly is this thread even a response to? Clearly not since Fergie had the forum been so aligned in supporting a manager.

Are the self proclaimed 'reasonable' folk who have spent several years being smugly wrong about managers bored and looking for the next hit of false superiority?

We could drop out of top 4 and he'd still have 90% support I reckon.
 
Its as plain as black and white we have improved, even if we dont win another cup. The players TH inherited most are simply not good enough to play the football he wants. We are on the cusp of having owners who will back TH completely and allow him to build the team he wants and hopefully moves on the dross.
 
We absolutely have lost perspective, he's done a fantastic job up to now, and to see some of the players firing again is brilliant. he also had to contend with the Ronaldo situation and managed the whole thing perfectly, stuck to his guns and its done every one good. From the off the signs were positive, the 13.8km run after the Brentford game, and also doing it himself was a great showing and that must have won him a lot of respect.

There'll always be those with unrealistic expectations on the forum, those who will remain critical of Rashford despite his excellent form and posters who will make threads about our most productive player being a problem for us, but the majority i think can see the path we're on and are finally excited to look ahead (and thats before we even get onto a change in ownership and the level of investment that could enable).

I'm really interested to see what the summer window brings and also more of the youth coming through, things are definitely on the up, after a long time of waiting!
 
When people say “we have lost perspective” does “we” mean a handful of idiots? Would hazard a guess that 99% of fans are buzzing about the job Ten Hag has done.
 
Imagine this team with a proper or even a decent striker.

Imagine this team with a better CDM than Fred and a better RB than we have. There is room for improvement.
 
People want too much to soon. He's got us moving in the right direction, a trophy in the cabinet and some of the football we've played has been the best in years for me.

It's also pretty obvious what areas we need to strengthen so give him some proper backing in the next transfer window and let's see where we are.
 
Take out everything (eg what he inherited, a couple of tough player situations etc) and only focus on results.

He's played 46 and won 33. (D6 L 7) Its a ridiculous record for where we were in August. I hope we finish top 4 without stumbling over the line and if we add another trophy I'll be over the moon, but its already been a successful season.

City for example (albeit in CL not Europa) have played 43 games this season, winning 30 (D 7 L6). So he's around neck and neck with guardiola with results this season, with the caveat of easier european competition.

For the first season, by any standard, its a brilliant record and even better when you take everything into account
 
Smores said:
What exactly is this thread even a response to? Clearly not since Fergie had the forum been so aligned in supporting a manager.

Are the self proclaimed 'reasonable' folk who have spent several years being smugly wrong about managers bored and looking for the next hit of false superiority?

We could drop out of top 4 and he'd still have 90% support I reckon.
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It’s a question mate. You know a discussion about perspective. It’s what a forum is for.

If you look closely enough there’s plenty of criticism here on the Caf too.
 
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