Being Realistic - Where do we go from here?

One match at a time. Next week totally different ball game. Defensive opponent, small spaces, everyone expecting United to win again. Then we'll see whether this is (the start of) a turnaround, or if this was just a match in which Uniteds players felt they had nothing to lose as everyone expected United to get hammered. Relief of that pressure can really free the players, but next week that pressure will be back on. Lets see if they can bring the same energy then. With tighter spaces (defensive opponent) they'll need to bring better passing too. Let's see next week.
 
Match at a time. Hopefully 3 pts vs Southampton, a strong debut from Casemiro & Antony signed.
 
We continue on like this I would expect top 4, one of the best performances from us in such a long time. Yes Liverpool we’re poor but the team they had out is still a very strong team and on paper possibly stronger than ours. All credit to the manager for his tactics and the players for following them. Hard to pick the best player from them tonight, Defence was brilliant, midfield fantastic and upfront was brilliant as well.
 
RedMarcus said:
This didn't age very well did it. Malacia and Martinez were immense.
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Against a team that did not play a cFW but a false 9 it works, they will struggle against teams with physical number 9’s but hey I don’t mind being wrong in one game if we beat the scousers.
 
Woziak said:
Against a team that did not play a cFW but a false 9 it works, they will struggle against teams with physical number 9’s but hey I don’t mind being wrong in one game if we beat the scousers.
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Martinez will bully Nunez and anyone else.
 
What a difference one game can make aye.

i wanted everyone binned especially DDG Now it’s just Maguire. I’ll change my mind again after the Soton game surely.
 
Tiki-Taka said:
Martinez will bully Nunez and anyone else.
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He did not bully Toney or Wellbeck , let’s reign it in until 10 pl games, we expected 6 points from 9 last we got 3 and we’ve scored an average of 1 goal per game and conceded more than 2 let’s wait til we have played 10 games then I’ll say l got terrible wrong and I’ll be happy to be proven wrong.
 
We need to go on a run of wins, something like Ole did when he took the job.
This group of players as ETH said fecking good players, this breeds confidence into ETH the players staff and us as Fans..

Even if is doesn't get us anywhere this season , it's a plus to the squad and if more quality signings come in the better, in 3 games we've seen the quality of Martinez, Malacia, if Casimero hits the ground running that's another bit of quality. Get another 2 quality signings through the door and who knows.
I just hope the board hasn't gone well we've beaten Liverpool no need for any more.!
 
Woziak said:
He did not bully Toney or Wellbeck , let’s reign it in until 10 pl games, we expected 6 points from 9 last we got 3 and we’ve scored an average of 1 goal per game and conceded more than 2 let’s wait til we have played 10 games then I’ll say l got terrible wrong and I’ll be happy to be proven wrong.
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Agree to certain extent on Martinez, Brighton was his first game and can be forgiven . Brentford played over him not in front of him when they did he was more than good enough, this is were he has to learn on how to engage the player. And ETH I think will rotate his CB to accommodate the front men or how the opposition play. This guy still has a lot to learn ..
 
Build confidence with a win against Southampton and then spank a- shambolic- Leicester. Before facing Arsenal.

Season wise

-We need to be really challenging for Top 4.
- A run in a domestic cup competition would be nice but not essential
- A serious challenge for the Europa.
 
Varane around town said:
Build confidence with a win against Southampton and then spank a- shambolic- Leicester. Before facing Arsenal.

Season wise

-We need to be really challenging for Top 4.
- A run in a domestic cup competition would be nice but not essential
- A serious challenge for the Europa.
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Agreed, but I'd put a finer point on it.
  • We should finish in the top four, no worse.
  • I'm indifferent to a league or FA Cup, but the longer the run the better.
  • We need to at least make it to the final of the EL.
 
I believe City will cruise to the title and Spurs will finish comfortably second. We need to compete with Arsenal, Chelsea, and Liverpool for fourth, so our best chance at Champions League football will be winning the Europa League.
 
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Tragically Hip said:
I believe City will cruise to the title and Spurs will finish comfortably second. We need to compete with Arsenal, Chelsea, and Spurs for fourth, so our best chance at Champions League football will be winning the Europa League.
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Liverpool relegated?
 
Varane around town said:
Build confidence with a win against Southampton and then spank a- shambolic- Leicester. Before facing Arsenal.

Season wise

-We need to be really challenging for Top 4.
- A run in a domestic cup competition would be nice but not essential
- A serious challenge for the Europa.
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I thought when ETH joined this must surely have been some of the first year goals. We still have a long way to go improvement wise to challenge for any of them despite the Liverpool win so it's one game at a time.
 
The Glazers wouldn't want to sell at a low point. Best way to get rid of them is EtH getting this franchise back on track. Then they can exit with their bobbleheads held high and realize their dream of squeezing one last massive payday out of the team.

EtH will get things under his thumb going forward. You can already see his impact in the transfer signings. This summer class is looking pretty good considering. We are beginning to see players acquired or developed in the past waking up and playing better, that should continue because we have a manager now who will challenge them and discipline them and provide that environment where they grow.

Honestly all we have to do is enjoy watching this manager do his thing. I'll be very surprised if he fails. I think this is the best hire they have made by far and he might be good enough to win in spite of them.
 
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I`d like to see how this line-up goes against Southhampton - no guarantee of three points in the Premier League regardless of the win against Liverpool. And we`d probably all like TH to make those Sir Alex decisions sooner rather than later - regardless of a player`s worth, sell those with the wrong attitude.

I don`t think Ronaldo necessarily belongs in that category - he was our consistenly high performer in a terrible team last season and the man is a winner who was furious with the lack of commitment and other `qualities` of the United he returned to.
 
Tragically Hip said:
I believe City will cruise to the title and Spurs will finish comfortably second. We need to compete with Arsenal, Chelsea, and Liverpool for fourth, so our best chance at Champions League football will be winning the Europa League.
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If Liverpool's shambolic form continues (big if) and if Arsenal bottle the season, in later stages, as they usually do:

1. City
2. Spurs
3. Chelsea

at best we are competing with Liverpool and Arsenal for 4th, but we have long way to go to be able to do it. One win with Liverpool when we had 30% possession and played for a result rather than in the style EtH actually wants, isn't putting us back on track.
 
I expect it to take 6 months before ETH forms his complete view of what's needed.

6 months to completely determine which players he feels he can develop to be the solution for a position (whether it be 1st team or squad player). Given this timeframe, there may be some surprises here of the players in the existing squad that ETH performs magic on (not saying anyone in particular but these players have to get used to his style and be developed to his style)

And within that 6 months, the goal will be pick up as many points as possible, hope you've picked up enough to have a strong finish to the 2nd half of the season to get a top 4 spot.
 
Daslogisch said:
One match at a time. Next week totally different ball game. Defensive opponent, small spaces, everyone expecting United to win again. Then we'll see whether this is (the start of) a turnaround, or if this was just a match in which Uniteds players felt they had nothing to lose as everyone expected United to get hammered. Relief of that pressure can really free the players, but next week that pressure will be back on. Lets see if they can bring the same energy then. With tighter spaces (defensive opponent) they'll need to bring better passing too. Let's see next week.
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This totally depends on how they set up. In preseason and at the start of the season they played a 3-5-2. They were getting rinsed on the counter and out wide against Spurs and Leeds. Against Leicester (and, for what it’s worth, in the League Cup) they went back to a back 4 and were much defensive, sat in a low block, and pressed less. If they go that way it will be interesting to see how we handle it. Might it give us another look at a more typical Ten Hag ball? While Rashford’s goal was a classic counter attack, I think Sancho’s was the sort of goal we were expecting under the new manager, and the sort we will likely need this weekend if Southampton do go for the low block
 
A bit of a false dawn since we should not be playing that way vs most teams (otherwise, why get rid of Ole since we were basically set up the same way, to swiftly counterattack). We have more than enough talent to contend for top 4 but the parts have not gelled. ETH has to figure how to get the most out of the current parts & hope he gets the right reinforcements. Will be interesting to see if the team with Casemiro actually can impose their will on weaker teams.
 
We have defence settled. Maybe new right back is an option but lets see how Dalot will play his first full season as first choice and under proper manager.
In midfield another central midfielder in playmaker role would be perfect but with Eriksen and Casemiro this looks pretty good now.
Attack is solved on the wings with Sancho, Rashford and Antony.
On striker position it is the same as for right full back. We shall see do we need backup striker or first choice striker, depending on Martial.
We have proper manager.

Future is bright.
 
Daslogisch said:
One match at a time. Next week totally different ball game. Defensive opponent, small spaces, everyone expecting United to win again. Then we'll see whether this is (the start of) a turnaround, or if this was just a match in which Uniteds players felt they had nothing to lose as everyone expected United to get hammered. Relief of that pressure can really free the players, but next week that pressure will be back on. Lets see if they can bring the same energy then. With tighter spaces (defensive opponent) they'll need to bring better passing too. Let's see next week.
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Southampton aren't that defensive though, at least not in the sense of just staying deep and compact. In the recent past they've usually come out playing a high line and pressing us aggressively and high. That would suit us fine, I think. But they'll be more defensive than Liverpool of course.

But then again, I would think we are currently a team whose recent games are studied intensely by the opposition even more than usual, and who knows what response they'll come up with. You'd think Hasenhüttl would watch the Liverpool game and conclude that a high line is off the table for this one, and that the trick is to stay deep with only just enough high pressing to entice us to play it long from the back.
 
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Improve on a bunch of underlying metrics. I propose PPDA, xG, xGA, xGD / 90 to start with. xGD is the most important metric we care about and if we make a table of xGD / 90 it tells a pretty woeful tale.

SeasonxGD/90RankTable PositionDiff from 1st
21/22+0.018th6th-1.62
20/21+0.474th2nd-0.63
19/20+0.584th3rd-0.96
18/19+0.335th6th-1.24
17/18+0.505th2nd-1.17

We're generally a 4th / 5th place team regardless of where we finish in the table. My opinion is that the table is basically a lie and getting optimistic about fluke 2nd place finishes when your general play doesn't justify it isn't cause for optimism.

Likewise 21/22 is an outlier and we're a lot better than what we showed last season.

City, Pool generally have an xGD/90 of ~1.5 in good years. We're about 3x worse.

Given the investment this season I'd really like to see an xGD close to 1.0 by the end of the season. Or at least an xG > 65+ (typical for a top four side) if we continue to leak goals because it takes time to get us to play out the back properly.
 
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