Yeah monumental damage done already
Being Realistic - Where do we go from here?
- Thread starter bosnian_red
- Start date
Yeah monumental damage done already
In your dreams
12 - nil down against Liverfool?
Will be another bloodbath
A lot better I’d imagine… have you noticed in pre season when Martials upfront the team actually play well and as a team? When Ronaldo starts everything crumbles. It’s not all ronaldos fault but I feel like when he’s playing all the players feel like they have to get it to him as quick as possible. Need martial back and that might improve the team play upfront.
To which part?
Long term get rid of the Glazers but immediately
1. Drop the jokers - De Gea, Bruno, Maguire, Shaw and Dalot
2. Bring in Bailly and Varane as CB. Lindelof at RB, Martinez in midfield alongside Scot, for now but Garner after the inevitable Liverpool mauling. Go a few weeks with Garner, Martinez and Eriksen in midfield.
3. Drop Ronaldo and put Martial in the team
4. Maybe play back three for a bit until the team has stabilized.
I dont hate Maguire, Rashford, Bruno and Shaw but I think they are in a collective rut and it will affect everyone else as they are crucial to the team but so low on confidence.
1. Drop the jokers - De Gea, Bruno, Maguire, Shaw and Dalot
2. Bring in Bailly and Varane as CB. Lindelof at RB, Martinez in midfield alongside Scot, for now but Garner after the inevitable Liverpool mauling. Go a few weeks with Garner, Martinez and Eriksen in midfield.
3. Drop Ronaldo and put Martial in the team
4. Maybe play back three for a bit until the team has stabilized.
I dont hate Maguire, Rashford, Bruno and Shaw but I think they are in a collective rut and it will affect everyone else as they are crucial to the team but so low on confidence.
I'm eliminated from the Last Man Standing in the first round because of United. In 2023 i'll pick any team but United.
I agree with you that at least against Liverpool in the next match we need to see if we can set a record for Jose-park the bus-shit house supreme football. I'm talking dives, time wasting at every opportunity, the works. Just see if we can magically shit house our way to a 0-0 draw. Not bloodly likely, but that's the only shot.
AWB should definitely come in for Dalot. Not because AWB is good or anything, but he can at least do well in 1 v 1 situations. Dalot is terrible at everything, but especially defending. Same goes for the left side. Shaw should start just because it would be cruel to throw Malacia out there. If I was younger and more of a dumb bastard like I used to be, I would say start Williams there because he will at least kick some people. Agree with you on the 3 CBs with Bailey, Varane, and Victor.
I have no clue on who we can put out there for the remaining spots. I know our options are extremely, depressingly, limited, but a CM group of J Garner, DVB and Eriksen will get laughed at by whatever CMs Klopp decides to put out there. The 3 of them just aren't athletic enough so they wouldn't be able to get close enough to put any pressure on the ball. Whoever our two fittest attackers are should get the other spots I guess. People who will actually work and will defend and not throw tantrums, so Ronaldo and Rashford are out.
What's this narrative that he will walk ? He isn't walking after signing his own players. God knows whose fault is midfield but definitely I wouldn't judge anyone until the window is closed.
Beat me to it.
We are headed towards 0 points after 3 games and maybe 2 points after 7. Unless we sign about 7 new players between now and end of window. We will finish 12-15th
Nope Garner to go straight in
That midfield trio ever becoming a reality
Ye the only doubt is the de Jong deal. Think rabiot will be signed this week. Ten Hag needs to grow some balls and drop Bruno and play eriksen in that spot where he’ll be a lot more dangerous for us.
Wishful thinking. This manager just like our previous ones would rather stick with the current crap then try some young ones that deserve a chance.
As someone else mentioned, long term is unsovable until new owners are in place. We still have huge debts, nothing has been spent to improve the ground and trainign facilities for a long time, which is very sad. The owners spent nothing to buy the cllub, money was borrowed and everything is leveraged to make them money. The state of decline now though, would liek to think the time is approaching where they must consider selling money wise.
As for the short term, there is still time in the transfer window, but little. The simple fact is we have failed massively in shiiping out players and even more so in buying in players for the right positions.
What needs to be done and should have weeks ago, £50-100m of sales should be made and a good £150-200m needsd to be spent but:
a) The pool of players that make a difference is a lot smaller than it was weeks ag as lots of top players have already moved, but there are some out there, we are just not gettign linked
b) Thus thread is about realism - we wont sell more than £20-30m by the end of the window and we wont spend over £50m either unless DejOngs comes and he isnt.
All we can do is improve the coaching and drilling of the team and get them to work harder and integrate a couple of youngsters as there are first eleven players simply incapable of adapting to a new style of play...thats te most realistic outcome for me....and it doesnt get close to the top 5, but as things stand we wll do well to make the top ten this season
As for the short term, there is still time in the transfer window, but little. The simple fact is we have failed massively in shiiping out players and even more so in buying in players for the right positions.
What needs to be done and should have weeks ago, £50-100m of sales should be made and a good £150-200m needsd to be spent but:
a) The pool of players that make a difference is a lot smaller than it was weeks ag as lots of top players have already moved, but there are some out there, we are just not gettign linked
b) Thus thread is about realism - we wont sell more than £20-30m by the end of the window and we wont spend over £50m either unless DejOngs comes and he isnt.
All we can do is improve the coaching and drilling of the team and get them to work harder and integrate a couple of youngsters as there are first eleven players simply incapable of adapting to a new style of play...thats te most realistic outcome for me....and it doesnt get close to the top 5, but as things stand we wll do well to make the top ten this season
Uniteds form since Burnley in February including this season is
Played : 18
Won: 5
Drew: 5
Lost: 8
Points: 20
Total points averaged over 38 games if form continues : 42 points. It will be 40 points if there’s a Liverpool defeat!
I can’t call for the managers head this early and hope he can turn things around from here. But he’s got to build the confidence of the squad somehow. It doesn’t matter what tactics you play if your team’s confidence is below the cellar floor.
United are 24-1 to be relegated this season. Newcastle who were in the bottom of the league for much of last season are 47-1. ETH is 3-1 to be next manager in league sacked , only the Southampton manager has Lower odds.
I’m not saying the manager will be sacked or the club will be relegated but These really are unsettling times.
I don’t want to go on a rant about the glazers because there’s not much else that needs to be said about what they are doing and what they are not doing. They are just awful owners who don’t appear to have a plan other then take money out of the club and not bother worrying about how bad the club is being run. That’s the politest paragraph I can write about them.
Played : 18
Won: 5
Drew: 5
Lost: 8
Points: 20
Total points averaged over 38 games if form continues : 42 points. It will be 40 points if there’s a Liverpool defeat!
I can’t call for the managers head this early and hope he can turn things around from here. But he’s got to build the confidence of the squad somehow. It doesn’t matter what tactics you play if your team’s confidence is below the cellar floor.
United are 24-1 to be relegated this season. Newcastle who were in the bottom of the league for much of last season are 47-1. ETH is 3-1 to be next manager in league sacked , only the Southampton manager has Lower odds.
I’m not saying the manager will be sacked or the club will be relegated but These really are unsettling times.
I don’t want to go on a rant about the glazers because there’s not much else that needs to be said about what they are doing and what they are not doing. They are just awful owners who don’t appear to have a plan other then take money out of the club and not bother worrying about how bad the club is being run. That’s the politest paragraph I can write about them.
We are screwed for as long as the Glazers are around, sadly, and we don't seem able to force them out. This is going to be long and desperately hard season. I switched off the match at half time yesterday and sat in the garden with a Guinness, trying to think of some positives. I couldn't find any.
I really feel for Ten Hag, he has been lied to. Everybody knows he was promised six players he named; he's actually gotten Erikson alone from that list. Martinez wasn't his first choice centre-back. The Glazers and Murtough and Arnold have yet again failed to deliver, producing yet another shambolic transfer window. Several players who were at the end of their contracts left, but only Pereira was sold. Look at the rubbish we are still left with; players who are still here, with some are even still playing: Maguire, Shaw, Wan-Bassaka, Bailly, Jones, Tuanzebe, Williams, Fred, McTominay, Rashford, Telles, Diallo. Bruno and Sancho haven't kicked a ball in months, but haven't been dropped. There must be at least ten players who need shipping out, but the club has failed and they still play. Maguire is still club captain; what's that all about?
The whole thing needs tearing up and starting afresh, but the manager isn't being helped to make the radical change. He is being set up to fail; that's the only possible outcome when a club is dysfunctional both on and off the pitch. Hence we continue with panic signings, without a proper plan.
I watched Gary Neville's post match rant, and he is right, we have owners who use the club as a cashpoint. Somewhere around £2 billion has been taken out of the club by the Glazers, during a period City's owners have put that much in. A £4 billion funding gap, it's no surprise we can't compete. Yet we seem unable to remove them; where that will lead in the end is anybody's guess. Short term I think we will finish somewhere between eighth and twelfth in the league and will remain dysfunctional. So many things need completely changing: owners, key employees, coaches, players, stadium. I can't see light at the end of the tunnel.
I really feel for Ten Hag, he has been lied to. Everybody knows he was promised six players he named; he's actually gotten Erikson alone from that list. Martinez wasn't his first choice centre-back. The Glazers and Murtough and Arnold have yet again failed to deliver, producing yet another shambolic transfer window. Several players who were at the end of their contracts left, but only Pereira was sold. Look at the rubbish we are still left with; players who are still here, with some are even still playing: Maguire, Shaw, Wan-Bassaka, Bailly, Jones, Tuanzebe, Williams, Fred, McTominay, Rashford, Telles, Diallo. Bruno and Sancho haven't kicked a ball in months, but haven't been dropped. There must be at least ten players who need shipping out, but the club has failed and they still play. Maguire is still club captain; what's that all about?
The whole thing needs tearing up and starting afresh, but the manager isn't being helped to make the radical change. He is being set up to fail; that's the only possible outcome when a club is dysfunctional both on and off the pitch. Hence we continue with panic signings, without a proper plan.
I watched Gary Neville's post match rant, and he is right, we have owners who use the club as a cashpoint. Somewhere around £2 billion has been taken out of the club by the Glazers, during a period City's owners have put that much in. A £4 billion funding gap, it's no surprise we can't compete. Yet we seem unable to remove them; where that will lead in the end is anybody's guess. Short term I think we will finish somewhere between eighth and twelfth in the league and will remain dysfunctional. So many things need completely changing: owners, key employees, coaches, players, stadium. I can't see light at the end of the tunnel.
Championship 
But we've had another shambolic transfer window. The owners and board are incapable of doing a good job. Besides, who will buy most of them? There are some players we should be trying to get rid of by mutual consent. Take the hit, just so we can get them out and start afresh.
Bring back Ralf instead of Murtough.
The club’s history, is just history now. We have nothing in common with the the top club we used to be except the colour of our shirt. So let’s start from there. This club is basically a startup but a highly profitable one. At startups, you need massive investments and no way can we be paying any type of dividends. All the revenue has to be reinvested. Any debt should go back into the squad and the stadium. Without the right corporate structure and financial investment, we will struggle.
This X100
United are unsuited to play any type of structure with the players they have under contract . We will see if any reinforcements come by the end of the month. Until then, United need to to drop everyone behind the ball and defend and defend. Hopefully with that strategy they can hold Liverpool and maybe luck one in on the counter.
United have to face the facts that they are a bottom of the table team and have to play so accordingly.
United have to face the facts that they are a bottom of the table team and have to play so accordingly.
I think its very naive to use preseasons friendly as basis to judge, as it’s basically game consist of group of 20-25 unfit players playing 30-45mins each trying to regain fitness.
Besides just a week ago we look totally toothless during first half vs Brighton without Ronaldo starting. I am afraid our problems lies far deeper than what you think.
"So Jose was right"..."Is this the worst its been"..."Time to abandon progressive football"..."Being realistic"
A lot of overreaction based on the 4-0, understandable but not ideal. Its not as dreadful as the scoreline suggests. We lack players defensively to build from the back and Brentford made good use of it by pressing high. First 2 goals came from our mistakes and the rest of the game was a hit and counter for them as we were desperately pushing up. Difficult loss as a fan. But we really can't read much into that game. hardly saw the managers system as GK errors killed the game.
If we were to shortlist our pressing problems.
1. ETH has a difficult decision to make. To continue playing 'HIS" way or wait for the right players before sticking to build from back. DeGea is not the right GK for his style. Guardiola spent his gazillions to address this problem. Liverpool went bonkers to get Alisson. Considering our pressing needs for a midfielder/striker, not sure if we will shop for a GK this window.
2. McFred is not ideal. Begging De Jong or going for players like Rabiot, looks like another terrible disaster waiting to happen, I would rather we stick with McFred. Bruno has fallen off the cliff. I think the camping and quick counter attacks suits him more than a scholesy playmaker role. A lot of his success under Ole was under this system where he found a lot of space on the break. For a dominating team, I feel he has to change his style and play more guaranteed passes. His steep drop in form is now pushing focus on McFred's lack of creativity. Again rewarding him with a contract just before the arrival of the next manager looks dodgy from the board.
3. Striker Problem. Ronaldo is done for me. But the solution is not going for players like Icardi. This kind of panic stop-gap fix without any detail to player characters/attitude has been the central theme of our failure post-fergie. If we don't get the right player, I would rather we keep Ronaldo and complete this season (F&&K his wishes).
Unfortunately its Pool next. We might get a one-off result just as likely as a big bad thrashing. But in either case, its really hard to read much into that game either. It's the Southampton game that will really tell us how far we have come under the new manager. Rebuild wont be easy, I hope most of us tell this to ourselves and patiently stick with the team.
A lot of overreaction based on the 4-0, understandable but not ideal. Its not as dreadful as the scoreline suggests. We lack players defensively to build from the back and Brentford made good use of it by pressing high. First 2 goals came from our mistakes and the rest of the game was a hit and counter for them as we were desperately pushing up. Difficult loss as a fan. But we really can't read much into that game. hardly saw the managers system as GK errors killed the game.
If we were to shortlist our pressing problems.
1. ETH has a difficult decision to make. To continue playing 'HIS" way or wait for the right players before sticking to build from back. DeGea is not the right GK for his style. Guardiola spent his gazillions to address this problem. Liverpool went bonkers to get Alisson. Considering our pressing needs for a midfielder/striker, not sure if we will shop for a GK this window.
2. McFred is not ideal. Begging De Jong or going for players like Rabiot, looks like another terrible disaster waiting to happen, I would rather we stick with McFred. Bruno has fallen off the cliff. I think the camping and quick counter attacks suits him more than a scholesy playmaker role. A lot of his success under Ole was under this system where he found a lot of space on the break. For a dominating team, I feel he has to change his style and play more guaranteed passes. His steep drop in form is now pushing focus on McFred's lack of creativity. Again rewarding him with a contract just before the arrival of the next manager looks dodgy from the board.
3. Striker Problem. Ronaldo is done for me. But the solution is not going for players like Icardi. This kind of panic stop-gap fix without any detail to player characters/attitude has been the central theme of our failure post-fergie. If we don't get the right player, I would rather we keep Ronaldo and complete this season (F&&K his wishes).
Unfortunately its Pool next. We might get a one-off result just as likely as a big bad thrashing. But in either case, its really hard to read much into that game either. It's the Southampton game that will really tell us how far we have come under the new manager. Rebuild wont be easy, I hope most of us tell this to ourselves and patiently stick with the team.
Be patient and don’t over react, even if you lose badly to Liverpool next week. You bought in ETH, now give him a bit of time to fix this.
I’m sure it’s been mentioned before, but look at Arsenal’s start to last season.
I’m sure it’s been mentioned before, but look at Arsenal’s start to last season.
Guardian seems to hit the nail on the head
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ited-clearout-needed-brentford-premier-league
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ited-clearout-needed-brentford-premier-league
Arsenal had 4 first team members out due to COVID that first match vs Brentford last season, and then they faced Chelsea and City the next two matches.
So basically you would change nothing. And hope that somehow ETH comes up with a winning formula.
No.
As a manager: I would take the right inputs from the losses and not go by scoreline. Adapt system to match player skills. Forego this window and wait for the right players.
As a fan: Wait for Southampton game to see how we are playing, and go from there with respect to judging manager's performance. Understand the rebuild won't happen in half a season, not with the decision makers we have with respect to squad building/transfers/contracts, Stop knee-jerk reactions when the downfall has been as predictable as the morning sun and support the team.
Get Ronaldo out of the club. His toxicity and the way he just walked of the pitch yesterday is totally inexcusable
The players seemed to gel better through pre season when he wasn't around.
Play Bruno as a false 9. Drop Rashford and put Marshial on the left where he has played his best football.
Over all just get him out of here. The players seem to be so much happier when that ego of his is not around.
The players seemed to gel better through pre season when he wasn't around.
Play Bruno as a false 9. Drop Rashford and put Marshial on the left where he has played his best football.
Over all just get him out of here. The players seem to be so much happier when that ego of his is not around.
This. Once ten hags backed by a guy who can do his job this changes
We need to look at the recruitment and the board need to drop this notion, we are utd so we need 70 mill+ players. Look at some of the 2 teams that have beaten us. Caicedo Toney how much did these cost? Start scouting players that cost 20 mill or less. Will come for less than 150k a week wages. Sell any player we can get decent money for. Rashford for 60 mill to psg as was reported? Would we even miss him?
We would need to pull levers to compete and I'm not even joking, we need to spend above the competition by bring in quality all over the pitch and at peak level too, we'll need to spend over £400m between now and next summer.
The last thing we need is to go full panic mode and add shit players like Arnautovic or Rabidiot. In my opinion we need to take a deep breath. We should have an honest conversation with ETH. We would try and sign players whom he believes can improve us in the long term while promising him a free pass for next season if he replace those who can't be bothered with kids. Meanwhile we should do some serious restructuring needed. I'd say hire Rangnick as sporting director, Mitchell as head of recruitment and sack Murtough, Fletcher and all the people who are on the job learning. Once we have that team in place then we can handle a high staff turnover both in and out. Hopefully we would have everything wrapped up in the next month or two to reap some benefits in January.
In my opinion Rangnick and Mitchell are worth more to the present side then us signing De Jong and SMS combined.
I don’t want to be all doom and gloom, but our form the past 6 months is that of relegation and unless we get some players in to suit the style ETH wants to play and fill the the gaping holes in the squad we’re getting relegated unfortunately. This is not an overreaction, just look at our form the past half year.
I am doing a sports coaching paper at University just as an interest. We gotta watch a sports match and do notational anaylsis for an assignment. Might do a Manchester United game and say the players are shit. Probably get an A+.
How we’ve fallen, we’re now being comforted by a Brighton fan
Joking aside, you are correct dude. The amount of collective pant wetting going on is nuts.