A bit early to write him off. I doubt he'd even be getting first team action at this stage in his Utd career if the likes of Valencia and Park had been fit and available. That applies to Obertan as well, on a slightly lesser scale.
Bebe | 2010/11 Performances
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that useless fooker should never put a United shirt on again. He was terrible on Saturday. feck off and take Mr potatoe head with you because he is shite aswell.
Yeah that was the reason why Tosic played only 5 matches in his 2 year stint with United despite costing roughly the same as Bebe.
This was a special post. Put it in the hall of fame.
Best post of the year
Bless him, he looks the most raw payer I've ever seen thrown into the first team.
Hopefully SAF learns his lesson and waits for some more football education to sink in before he plays him again. Reserve football is what the boy needs right now, possibly a loan move after that. It seems like it's gonna be an uphill struggle for him to make it here.
Hopefully SAF learns his lesson and waits for some more football education to sink in before he plays him again. Reserve football is what the boy needs right now, possibly a loan move after that. It seems like it's gonna be an uphill struggle for him to make it here.
yeah right
C'mon give them a chance. Not every prospect turns out to be a dong.
I think we should first see him play at his position(i.e striker) before deeming him to be failure.
maybe not a Dong but certainly a pair of Dicks
Shit post. Nominee for worst post of the year for sure.
I wasn't using the point to show Bebe in another light, but to point out that the 'Nani scored a cracker in his second game' line of argument to prove Bebe is shit doesn't work or make sense.
Rooney that was the star of the 04 Euro and scored a hattrick in his debut? Hardly useless and comparable..
1. Obertan at least has played at professional level and has received proper training. Bebe was picked from handful of matches in the Portuguese second division and couple of friendlies.. Bebe has at times, easily seen on the pitch, has issues with the football basics. The positional sense can be worked out, the decision making as well, but ball control and crossing abilities... He usually keeps his head down when he crosses a football. Of course some would come good as when he hoofs 10 balls in the box, 1 eventually will find a team mate..
2. Ronaldo is a rare phenomenon. Can't see being compared to Bebe here. 1 game is all you need to judge a player like Ronaldo and Messi the natural talent is obvious.
3. I'm saying that Bebe is not United quality. He can develop into a fine footballer for a lower ranked Premiership team, but that raw at 20 with some of the footballing basics missing and 7.5m price tag is a bit over the top. Rossi and Pique had obvious talent at far younger age. Rossi was tearing opposition apart in the reserves scoring like > 40 goals in a season and was barely given a chance in the first team, despite playing well and scoring in Prem, CC and FA cups.. Pique showed qualities as well bar that odd match against Bolton at Reebok. My point is, when players like Rossi and Pique are hardly given any chance despite their obvious talent why should we stick with Bebe, like we have done with Bellion, Richardson, Chadwick and so on to realize that they aren't United level..
4. Yes, you have a point but looking at out perspective how many games was Bebe judged on? I'm sure our scout watched not more than 7 games in which he participated. Would that be the case if we had a chance to buy him for free the previous year(as if we have followed him over an year) and decided to wait and buy him for 7m more based on couple of preseasons?
In fact if he has been coveted for more than 7 matches, would Fergie say that he haven't seen him before he came to United?
I'm fully aware that non of us are United scouts and they should know better, but everyone can make a mistake, especially over several friendly matches and Queroz tip..
My point is, when Bebe has been judged on several matches and bought for 7m, why can't we(the supporters) have a say after watching him odd 10 matches in United shirt...
He was talking about Rooney on Saturday, not Rooney at 17-18 years old.
The rest of your post was actually very good.
That's just it though. The vast majority of people passing judgement haven't watched him play "10 odd matches" He's only started three first-team games. Which is nowhere near enough to accurately judge any footballer. I remember Danny Welbeck getting written off by all and sundry after a similar amount of starts for the first team. There was even some sort of redcafe consensus that he had no first touch when his touch is actually top class, one of his best qualities.
Before anyone says anything, I'm not saying Bebe is anywhere near as talented as Welbeck (I don't think he is) but it does prove how easy it is to get the completely wrong idea about the quality of any young footballer based on only a handful of games, when a combination of nervousness and being part of a dire team performance can make them look far worse than they actually are.
Obviously, people can have an opinion on him after just one game. It's not as though we have to wait a full season before we're allowed to say whether he looks like a good player or not. He hasn't looked very impressive at all and people should feel free to express this opinion. They should also be willing to reserve judgement, though, and accept that he might not have done himself justice in the limited opportunities he's had so far.
As Pogue said...Three starts is all that he's had. And the big argument here isn't so much posters having their say on him, but completely writing him off, and saying that he can't develop past what we've witnessed. I suppose of course you can have your say, and share your opinion, but is it really worth it having seen so little? Not the criticisms, but I mean the whole 'he's a fecking shit pub player' 'Will never be a squad player' 'sell him for nothing' type responses that are ridiculous. I think everyone agrees he's been poor so far, but then I think every single person knew that he wasn't brought to make an immediate impact either, so time was always going to be a crucial factor for Bebe's game.
I can see it now, 2-3 years from now, Bebe turns out to be an absolute gem and then leaves us for Real Madrid, everyone on here will be going ape-shit about how "we gave him his big chance and this is how he repays us".
He's fecking dogshit. End the thread on this note.
I'm more inclined to delete your post then to end the thread on it.
Let's not start making judgements about his future.
It's a bit annoying that the squad players did so badly though as there are quite a few promising kids who I think deserve a chance and who didn't get a kick.
It's a bit annoying that the squad players did so badly though as there are quite a few promising kids who I think deserve a chance and who didn't get a kick.
These promising kids have done nowhere near as much as Obertan or Gibson. They will get chances, but it's much too early yet.
People are judging the price tag as much as the player. If he was someone you picked up for a few hundred grand (which is all it looks like he's worth, tbh) then no-one would expect him to be playing that much differently to how he is - hesitant, clumsy, unsure of himself. Take away the price tag, and make allowances for his lack of a football education etc etc and you'd be looking at a player who you suspect will struggle to make it in the Premier League, but would be a decent shout at £500k for a small team in the Portuguese first division. More or less exactly where he was, in other words, before the mental transfer that took him to OT.
All in all it's one of the strangest things I've ever heard of in football. The justification for spending £7m on a player who at the moment is worth nowhere near that much can only be that they believed he'd be worth more than double that in the near future. So he's not just supposed to be a £7m player, but a "cheap at £7m" player.
I don't buy all this "you have to trust that the scouts and fergie saw something in him" crap either. It's surely plausible that Fergie and the club have all just been taken for a ride by someone they trusted in Portugal. Someone who is no doubt still counting out the piles of money they made from the deal.
All in all it's one of the strangest things I've ever heard of in football. The justification for spending £7m on a player who at the moment is worth nowhere near that much can only be that they believed he'd be worth more than double that in the near future. So he's not just supposed to be a £7m player, but a "cheap at £7m" player.
I don't buy all this "you have to trust that the scouts and fergie saw something in him" crap either. It's surely plausible that Fergie and the club have all just been taken for a ride by someone they trusted in Portugal. Someone who is no doubt still counting out the piles of money they made from the deal.
I'll admit that I would have liked to know the private thoughts of players like Welbeck, Eikrem and Cleverley as they watched Bebe the other day...
What has Obertan done in his time here. Please let me know.
I'm sure they would have been wishing the lad well before & during the match as all going well they'll be playing together on the same team in the future, at least thats the plan.
I dont think playing a ton of young players/reserves together is a good way to bed them in, in fact i think it puts extra pressure on them.
back in the day with the nevilles, giggs, beckhams etc they tended to be introduced into the first team with 20mins to go etc to give them a chance to play with the bedded down team.
It has to be easier to get your confidence up when you have a proper full team around you rather than playing with equally nervous young lads.
I do think the bigger worry was that Carrick and Anderson were outplayed in the midfield.
back in the day with the nevilles, giggs, beckhams etc they tended to be introduced into the first team with 20mins to go etc to give them a chance to play with the bedded down team.
It has to be easier to get your confidence up when you have a proper full team around you rather than playing with equally nervous young lads.
I do think the bigger worry was that Carrick and Anderson were outplayed in the midfield.
Last season he did very well in his first season at the club. His first game against Blackburn showed his pace, and unfortunately he missed a glorious chance. Following that he played very well for the reserves, then created a superb goal against Wolfsburg. Great assist
YouTube - Michael Owen - Manchester United v Wolfsburg second goal
Great bit of skill
Since then he did very well in the build up to the City goal.
YouTube - Scholes v Manchester City
He then had a great preseason with the team. He played well before getting his second major injury with United. Ensuring for a second year in a row he didn't have a proper pre season.
YouTube - Gabriel Obertan Goal - Philadelphia Union vs Manchester United Pre-Season - July 21 2010
He then played against Bursapspor in the CL. Great technique.
YouTube - Bursaspor 0-2 Man Utd - Obertan goal
So no. He's not shit. He's quite clearly got talent. And he's quite clearly very very young.
Or Morrison, King, Pogba, Tunnicliffe.
There's a good set of players who could have played in that match and I'm quite sure would have contributed more. But rest assured that SAF will have made the players aware of that.
Don't forget he changed the game against Villa when he came on.
How after seeing a combined total of 30 seconds between Morrison, Pogba and Tunnicliffe in the first team, can you be quite sure they would have done better against Crawley town?
I don't agree - at all. Joshua King has been playing for Preston this season - is Crawley above his level? He's been on fire since coming back from loan - he should have got a chance in that game. And Morrison is a terrific talent, the kind of player that could really have got at that defence. Very disappointing that neither of them played. I think SAF protected them because he though Crawley would be really physical, but not sure this was fair.
Pogba and Tunnicliffe - well, maybe the bench at this stage, but they should rightly be biting on the heels of the squad players based on their form.
I mean Gibson, Bebe and Obertan's last few outings for the first team have all been poor. They are only getting picked based on perceived seniority, and to 'give them a chance'. I think it's fair to say that Gibson (especially) and Obertan are running out of chances. Bebe will likely be given a bit more time, especially because of the fee and being a bit younger, but he will need to show something more soon.
Wasn't Gibson our best player in that match?
If you take that kind of attitude, you will never play your young players. This was a prime opportunity, and their form for the reserves and academy merits a chance.
Twisting this round, on what basis did Darron Gibson deserve his place in the team? I'll tell you on what - the message it sends if he's not picked. That's it.
Remember Brian Clough - if you're good enough, you're old enough. The best managers show faith in their talented young players. SAF has too, over the years, at some points being really bold. But now our squad is a bit bloated and it's harder.
I'm not even saying that the selection was badly wrong, though. I'm just saying the young players looking on must have been disappointed to see squad players ahead of them doing so poorly.
TBF to SAF. I bet he wanted to bring on the young lads but the first team squaders totally wrecked any chance of that happneing with their largely inept displays. On top of the unfortunate fact we lost 3 players to injuries, wasting chances to sub on the hungry youngsters. Most annoying of all, going by their luck, we just had to draw Arsenal in the next round, meaning the youngsters chance to play is probably gone from here on out.
Yes fair enough Chief.
It's just a point of frustration, with the benefit of hindsight. Not that big a deal.
It's just a point of frustration, with the benefit of hindsight. Not that big a deal.
What has Gibson done?
Well for a start our two best moments of the match were purely down to Darren Gibson. Apart from that he's set up a great goal v Birmingham. He's scored against Bayern Munich in arguably our biggest game last year. He scored two fabulous goals against Spurs last year to get us through the Carling Cup. He's done well in numerous games in the last few years.
True
But his form before this game was shite.
7 Million was an excessive amount to pay for him but he is still very young and needs to be given time in the reserves to get him right. Usually when a young player reaches 22-23 without making an impact on the first team they normally leave the club and this should apply to Bebe too.
It was? What games had he been shite in?
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