That's some rubbish. We haven't been that good since that abomination Moyes, should have kept him as well eh? We might struggle next season too, doesn't mean we should keep LVG either. I want Mourinho here. Think the Chelsea last season was a blip and he has proven before how good he can be. But his recent season with Chelsea was an utter disaster. He lost the plot completely.
BBC: United hold talks with Mourinho
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That's some rubbish. We haven't been that good since that abomination Moyes, should have kept him as well eh? We might struggle next season too, doesn't mean we should keep LVG either. I want Mourinho here. Think the Chelsea last season was a blip and he has proven before how good he can be. But his recent season with Chelsea was an utter disaster. He lost the plot completely.
That squad just won the league.
Yes Hazard disappeared, but are you going to say the manager didn't have any part in that? All the players under performed, that is down to the manager. Just like LVG at United now.
I don't think anyone is absolving Mourinho of all responsibility for that mess, but to place the blame squarely on his shoulders when Chelsea have continued to disappoint under Hiddink is nonsense.
The problem was that Mourinho had burned it bridges with many of the players like Hazard to the point that they just wouldnt play under him. It would have led to a situation where Chelsea needed to ship out 4-5 players just to get players willing to work under Mourinho. I agree the backing in the transfer market wasnt there but hes still a massive fault in the reason the champions fell so far this season. His handling of many of the situations was shocking and there was no other choice than to get rid.
Hiddink steadied the ship, thats what he was brought in to do, hes not a miracle worker and has done exactly what was needed to avoid further slippage. While some of the blame needs to be put on Chelseas cowardly players 90% of the blame is on Mourinho here to be honest.
Pep has said he will only be at City for 3 years, that is the norm for him.
Forget about Chelsea and Madrid, not many managers stays beyond 4 years everywhere else.
You see that's the difference between us and where he's previously worked in that we would happily ship out five players to establish our most successful manager's authority. The previous United boards did that for Fergie, don't imagine for one second that it was smooth sailing and that the Hazard like situations didn't exist because they did and Fergie got the backing he needed when the time came to weed the garden. If players are allowed to believe they can the manager fired then the whole club is at those players' mercy.
Ancelotti would. He just hasn't been given the platform to stay longer at any club he has been at recently.And people think that this two would be more long term than Mourinho?
Good god football fans can be so fickle at times.
You want the best results, you claim that we're the biggest team in the world, you claim that our history is right there with the best, financial muscle of the best, bla bla bla
Yet you want to employ the lousiest midtable manager you can find, if you think we're the best club in the world then start acting like one, employ the best manager in the world, buy the best player in the world, develop the best youth in the world.
You want the best results, you claim that we're the biggest team in the world, you claim that our history is right there with the best, financial muscle of the best, bla bla bla
Yet you want to employ the lousiest midtable manager you can find, if you think we're the best club in the world then start acting like one, employ the best manager in the world, buy the best player in the world, develop the best youth in the world.
This nonsense about Mourinho not being backed in the transfer market?
He spent 60 million pounds this summer. He also brought in a loan player on massive wages. He had plenty to spend.
He spent 60 million pounds this summer. He also brought in a loan player on massive wages. He had plenty to spend.
You'd think people would have learned by now that the days of Ferguson and Wenger are over. It's maddening to read otherwise.
They made signings, but they almost certainly weren't Jose's. Baba Rahman, Hector, and Djilobodji are a far cry from what it was being reported by his mouthpiece what he actually wanted - Stones, Pogba, Griezmann etc. Even Pedro seemed sort of forced into his hands/a pretty emergency late deal.
That is no reason to take champions to 16th
Djilobodji was signed by Jose in the exact same way Zouma was. He got recommended him by one of his advisors having not seen him and then signed him up. If we're going to start discounting signings who did badly, we can't give him much credit for others.
Chelsea spent 60m, he seemingly didn't wanted Baba Rahman nor Kenedy and Begovic wasn't a starter. I give you Pedro and Falcao with Falcao being a criminal offence.
Djilobodji and Zouma in the same sentence? Really?
I believe the issue was that the £60m was not spent on the players Mourinho wanted and that there was a significant falling out with Emanelo as a result. It was obvious as the season started that there was something very wrong at Chelsea. Mourinho reacted incredibly badly and completely lost the plot.
As for the talk about "long term" managers, there are many attributes required but the most important is being good enough.
Yes.
Correct.
Which we dont know, how many of us thought Van Gaal was the perfect candidate myself included.
The manager is given more authority at United so a falling out like that is (in theory) less likely to happen. Until it did (and he lost his mind) he was doing a fantastic job at Chelsea.
Would the people saying no to Mourinho because of this season also have rejected Klopp because of what he did at Dortmund last season?
Mourinho 16 games 15 points when he was sacked
Klopp was at 19 games 16 points and bottom for the table by 2 points at one point
Klopp seems to have bounced back pretty well so I don't see why Mourinho can't do the same
Mourinho 16 games 15 points when he was sacked
Klopp was at 19 games 16 points and bottom for the table by 2 points at one point
Klopp seems to have bounced back pretty well so I don't see why Mourinho can't do the same
People need to get over Mourinho's spell at the start of this season at Chelsea. As a sample size compared to the rest of his career it's nothing. You'll find lots of blips in every manager's careers. He never really wanted to go back to Chelsea for the long term, it was just the best option for last season.
I think people not wanting Mourinho either look at his final year at Chelsea through their agenda tinted specs, or forget the depth of the shit we're in right now. The players wanted him gone, they stopped performing. Player power has been running through that club for nearly a decade.
The fact is, he's the best around right now and wants the job. We have to get the next appointment right. It cannot go 5 years without a title, then 10, then more. We need to correct the situation and quick. We need to make sure we retain our best players, and sign more of that calibre. The only way to do that? Jose.
that's the point I was trying to make. Klopp wasn't sacked because the club felt loyalty to him. he'd delievered for them in the past, and had a record of excellence.
Jose had a similar situation at Chelsea. The fans supported him, but unlike at Dortmund, Abramovich doesn't give a shit.
A manager who got you 3 of your 4 EPL titles deserved more than what Jose got. His case wasn't an 'any other manger would have' situation because so few managers ever get in his position.
The entire situation was poisoned. Zero targets signed. Fallout over the doctor. Massive dip in forms from Hazard, Ivanovic, Matic and Oscar. It was a bad season. But a manager like Jose who hadn't finised outside top 3 for more than a decade deserved a bad season and deserved a strong backing.
Klopp didn't alienate his players, many of the players didn't want to play for Jose, that is the difference, not Abramovich
Where is this narrative coming from? Those silly banners Chelsea fans had blaming players for Jose's sacking? They all publicly said they had spoken to Jose and were all behind him. Players don't publicly do that if they had a falling out.
A few thoughts on the prospect of Mourinho as United manager.
Transfers
One of the major advantages of Mourinho is basically his fame. Having managed Real Madrid and Internazionale (and, to a lesser extent, Chelsea) in recent years means he is would be quite a glamorous appointment. The current generation of top players have played in an era in which Mourinho has won trophies in a high profile way. We can reasonably speculate that they are thus somewhat more likely to commit the next few years of their careers to United under Mourinho's leadership than they would be under other, less established candidates. We need to strenghten in at least three positions this summer and Mourinho's fame might help us attract higher quality players.
The Rooney question
One of the most important tasks for reshaping our team over the next year or so is phasing out or selling Wayne Rooney. For Moyes the prospect of managing a player with the stature of Rooney was a dream come true, and instead of taking the opportunity of moving him on that Ferguson had (I believe) purposely engineered, he chose to make him more important than ever to our team. Van Gaal has seemingly embraced Rooney too; it's hard to do anything but speculate about this, but my guess has always been that rather than blind faith that Rooney was a superb player, Van Gaal's positioning of him at the centre of his plans about accomodation. He arrived a club which was seriously lacking in defence and midfield, and found Rooney near the start of a long and record breaking contract, and basically decided there were bigger fish to fry. The situation has now evolved to the point that Rooney seems to present a blockage in our first eleven. Van Gaal could have used his arrogance and authority to address the Rooney question; Mourinho would also have this chance. Of course, he could duck it and decide his priorities lie elsewhere, but compared to a more timid, less experienced manager there is a greater chance he'll act strongly on this.
Psychology
Normally I roll my eyes whenever I hear people claiming that the problem with their team is lack of passion (it's the standard refrain of the clueless casual England supporter), but our team has looked depressingly timid in recent times. I think that the drive that you saw in classic United teams is to a significant extent a function of self-belief. We don't seem to believe that we can rise to the top and we look defeated when things go wrong. What makes teams overcome adversity is belief in themselves personally, belief in their teammates and belief in the plan. At points in his career Mourinho has shown that he is capable of inspiring this kind of belief (notably in his first spell at Chelsea), so there's a decent chance he'd be able to stop the rot here. On the other hand he has also shown the capacity to entirely undermine team spirit (see his second spell at Chelsea and the Carniero debacle), so it's by no means guaranteed.
Style of play
Moyes' and Van Gaal's conservative tactics have been a source of intense frustration. One of the things that made Ferguson's teams far more enjoyable to watch was that he was an extremely skilled risk-taker. Mourinho is not a risk-taker in the same way and has tendencies towards conservative tactics. He famously believes that big games are won by the team that makes the fewest mistakes, so in games against, say, City, we would probably have to get used to the spectacle of United playing with nearly everyone behind the ball, waiting for City to make a mistake.
Barcelona psychodrama
The presence of Guardiola at City makes Mourinho into even more of a wild card than he might otherwise be. The fact that Van Gaal has a playing philosophy seems to have been a source of consternation to many posters on here, but the same is true of Mourinho, who seems to have deep psychological issues with Barcelona, which manifest in his desire to demonstrate his superiority to tiki-taka, Guardiola etc. This has led to some questionable tactical choices, and the fear is that this fixation means United becomes the latest stage for him to seek vindication of his own superior tactical acumen, clouding his judgement.
Transfers
One of the major advantages of Mourinho is basically his fame. Having managed Real Madrid and Internazionale (and, to a lesser extent, Chelsea) in recent years means he is would be quite a glamorous appointment. The current generation of top players have played in an era in which Mourinho has won trophies in a high profile way. We can reasonably speculate that they are thus somewhat more likely to commit the next few years of their careers to United under Mourinho's leadership than they would be under other, less established candidates. We need to strenghten in at least three positions this summer and Mourinho's fame might help us attract higher quality players.
The Rooney question
One of the most important tasks for reshaping our team over the next year or so is phasing out or selling Wayne Rooney. For Moyes the prospect of managing a player with the stature of Rooney was a dream come true, and instead of taking the opportunity of moving him on that Ferguson had (I believe) purposely engineered, he chose to make him more important than ever to our team. Van Gaal has seemingly embraced Rooney too; it's hard to do anything but speculate about this, but my guess has always been that rather than blind faith that Rooney was a superb player, Van Gaal's positioning of him at the centre of his plans about accomodation. He arrived a club which was seriously lacking in defence and midfield, and found Rooney near the start of a long and record breaking contract, and basically decided there were bigger fish to fry. The situation has now evolved to the point that Rooney seems to present a blockage in our first eleven. Van Gaal could have used his arrogance and authority to address the Rooney question; Mourinho would also have this chance. Of course, he could duck it and decide his priorities lie elsewhere, but compared to a more timid, less experienced manager there is a greater chance he'll act strongly on this.
Psychology
Normally I roll my eyes whenever I hear people claiming that the problem with their team is lack of passion (it's the standard refrain of the clueless casual England supporter), but our team has looked depressingly timid in recent times. I think that the drive that you saw in classic United teams is to a significant extent a function of self-belief. We don't seem to believe that we can rise to the top and we look defeated when things go wrong. What makes teams overcome adversity is belief in themselves personally, belief in their teammates and belief in the plan. At points in his career Mourinho has shown that he is capable of inspiring this kind of belief (notably in his first spell at Chelsea), so there's a decent chance he'd be able to stop the rot here. On the other hand he has also shown the capacity to entirely undermine team spirit (see his second spell at Chelsea and the Carniero debacle), so it's by no means guaranteed.
Style of play
Moyes' and Van Gaal's conservative tactics have been a source of intense frustration. One of the things that made Ferguson's teams far more enjoyable to watch was that he was an extremely skilled risk-taker. Mourinho is not a risk-taker in the same way and has tendencies towards conservative tactics. He famously believes that big games are won by the team that makes the fewest mistakes, so in games against, say, City, we would probably have to get used to the spectacle of United playing with nearly everyone behind the ball, waiting for City to make a mistake.
Barcelona psychodrama
The presence of Guardiola at City makes Mourinho into even more of a wild card than he might otherwise be. The fact that Van Gaal has a playing philosophy seems to have been a source of consternation to many posters on here, but the same is true of Mourinho, who seems to have deep psychological issues with Barcelona, which manifest in his desire to demonstrate his superiority to tiki-taka, Guardiola etc. This has led to some questionable tactical choices, and the fear is that this fixation means United becomes the latest stage for him to seek vindication of his own superior tactical acumen, clouding his judgement.
"palpable discord between manager and players" - Chelsea’s technical director, Michael Emenalo
Don't care what the players came out and said publicly, and Jose said it himself before he was sacked that his work was being betrayed by certain players.
Nah I don't believe that. Caftards say he never throws players under the bus.
Emenalo was the one Chelsea fans wanted sacked. he failed at his job of getting any targets. Him and Mourinho had a falling out and the decision was between Emenalo and Jose and the board and Abramovich chose Emenalo.
I'm not talking about what the fans wanted, I'm talking about what was happening with the team, and Mou clearly lost many of the players, throwing them under the bus multiple times on post match interviews. He practically begged to be sacked on one of them.
I want him as manager, I think he is a good manager, but lets not sugar coat what happened at Chelsea, the guy had a meltdown and it was public for all to see.
Where did I say it wasn't?
Really? Players toeing the line in public is the norm; going public with dressing room disputes is very unusual - surely you'd acknowledge this.
Your belief that all of Chelsea's players were performing at their best is touching, but that clearly wasn't a view shared by Mourinho himself:
Comparing Mourinho to Fergie is a travesty.
Fergie was hated for entirely different reasons than Mourinho by rival fans, and respected a lot more. Mourinho is a disgrace of a man, who doesn't even have quality football to excuse it.
Ferguson wasn't respected as much prior to his retirement as he was after. Mourinho is quite commonly respected, he is the closest thing we have to Ferguson by way of achievements today. And he does have quality football.
Also, @mbb8 must be Duncan Castles. Only a Mourinho puppet would say he didn't deserve to be sacked this season
That's as bad as it gets- Status