Not sure a decent replacement until the end of the season would be too difficult. I'm sure a few within the club would step in if Giggs didn't want it again. I'd wager, even a rudderless United would get better results than under LvG at the moment.
BBC: United hold talks with Mourinho
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He isn't exactly championing a hard to believe scenario is he
I think someone who knows next to nothing about football would have picked up enough clues that it'll be Mourinho by now!
Im 99.9% sure that this time last year I had recieved a renewal back etc but as of yet I've heard nothing from the club, not even an email.
Part of me says they are waiting to see the outcome of this season (whether or not we will have European football as that could be a factor whether people will renew) and whether the club make a change of management.
Personally I'm waiting to see who is in charge next season. Usually some time in May is the latest the club will reserve your seat for you to renew and if we still have LVG or even Giggs in charge come then I won't be renewing.
On point 3, oh for certain.
If we could arrange it so that we could sack Moyes less than 1 year into a 6 year contract, we certainly won't find it difficult to sack a guy with a year left.
Mmmm I think this is where you fall down
You've been saying it for a while, but what if lvg had turned it all around and finished the season unbeaten, top 3 and the Europa and the fa cup in the bag
No chance in hell would he have been sacked (rightfully so) therefore I seriously doubt a written agreement is already in place
Rightly so my ass
There was someoneone else who was championing Vidal I think. Not sure who but he wagered he will take a ban if it didn't go through. In the end he claimed it was all a WUM and that cnut was rightly banned.
Good times nonetheless
@PexboThere was someoneone else who was championing Vidal I think. Not sure who but he wagered he will take a ban if it didn't go through. In the end he claimed it was all a WUM and that cnut was rightly banned.
Good times nonetheless
I dont know how they will resolve the situation with LvG, but he will go one way or the other.
You've probably missed it in fairness, there's been at least one email/text trying to get early renewal on the chance of winning a free season ticket.
Nowhere near enough incentive for me to lash £1400 out in a button click rather than waiting 2 months
Who knows the exacts, but if we've left it loose enough that he could just decide not to come, more fool us.
However, if Mourinho hasn't for years wanted to join us, and it's not all arranged already, I'd just presume everything we knew about football was wrong.
Well, they did it in the Champions League last season against PSG. I think you make some good points, but I'm often reading this reliability argument and I don't agree with it. He lost at home against Sunderland in 2014 with 4 matches to play, for example. Liverpool were first in the league (77 pts) and Chelsea second (75). The result that weekend was Chelsea 1 - Sunderland 2 (Eto'o 12) (Wickham 18, Borini 82).
It happened the same in the Champions League that year, they started scoring against Atletico at home in the second leg, and the match ended 1-3. And against PSG two years later like I said, at home and against 10 players which makes it even worse.
It happened in the European Supercup against Guardiola, and against Bayern again when he managed Real. They scored 2 goals at home in the first minutes, then parked the bus and Bayern dominated the match and had the most clear chances. We saw it also at OT last season, when he ended the match trying to defend the 0-1 with 8 defenders clearing the ball from the box, which led us to surround them and get the draw.
Maybe if we go back 8-10 years, his first Chelsea team was very difficult to beat when they scored first. Inter was a tough team too, so mature and disciplined. But in the last years I don't see this solidity anywhere, in fact I don't see anything to be impressed. He won 2 leagues in the last 6 seasons, one of them against one of the better teams in history, which is remarkable. But aside from that, I don't see any miracles during this time. After that season he's managed for 4 years, 2 of them trophyless and the last one he was sacked after being a total mess. Honestly, I don't think he's a guarantee of anything.
Maybe, if that was the case, ( and I'm clutching at the proverbial straw here ), then it's still possible to assume that some agreement could have been reached with Jose if LVG had indicated privately that he no longer wanted to continue into the 3rd year of his contract; or the club had secured some sort of "understanding" that would see him exit early? I mean, around Christmas he looked even more unhinged than normal, and I honestly thought he may be ready to walk ( he even mentioned several times that he'd pre-empted the sack on other occasions by leaving certain clubs of his own volition ). Maybe, sensing that, his family could have persuaded him to book his flight to Portugal a year early?
I doubt that this is the case, however, as he would have to be dragged kicking-and-screaming out of OT if there was even the merest suggestion that he would finish his contract at UTD with even a modicum of credit. And from everything he's said since I'd have to agree that he looks about as likely to move on as I would if my neighbour decided to open a brothel next door.
The thing I can't understand is how Woodward could possibly countenance any sort of major spend this summer, if VG was still here, given his track record in the market & the fact that he'd only have another 8 months or so to run on his contract? And there's no way Van Gaal could possibly enter the final year without some sort of sizable investment being made to the squad.
Commenting on the thread in overall, I understand the people who accept Mourinho without being convinced, as we don't have too many options. LVG is a mess and we need a change, and it's not Giggs in my opinion. But I don't share the "world class" treatment for Mourinho when he's been far from it for years. The way I see him, I'm sure he could add some bite and aggression to the team again, and make us recover some passion. But I think his fast-success formula has a negative face, and I'm convinced it's not what we need under normal conditions, but just a patch.
After watching his teams along the years, I think he relies too much on exploiting the physical and mental side of players, but he doesn't build anything solid or complex behind. A lot of managers would do the same if they could, but they don't have his leading qualities. He's good also at analyzing the opposition, neutralizing his strenghts, and he prepares every match taking care of every little detail. His micro-management and his weekly work seems to be really valuable.
But when his teams stop tolerating his high demands of intensity and they drop the focus just a little, you see how basic and average they are, in deep. This way of working makes him successful, but I don't think the clubs are as benefited as him from this kind of aggressive management. When his time is over he moves elsewhere with his tools and medals, and the club is left without any solid buildings.
It's legit he works to find his personal glory, without thinking about the future or the next manager, but I don't like this kind of management for us. If it depended on me, the first thing I'd do is create a more dynamic and modern football structure to make decisions, create a plan and supervise it. A person or a group of people to be a permanent influence, and ensuring everyone comes to 'irrigate the tree', and not to take the fruits from here.
A solid plan with strong values, modern football concepts, well directed and backed by money, sets you in the road for permanent success. I think that's what we need most, and then we can discuss the name of the manager. But we're ruled at the moment by a money maker, some rich people and I don't know who else, so all we can expect is some director of football to negotiate the transfer fees with Jorge Mendes, so Woody has more time to sign new commercial deals.
After watching his teams along the years, I think he relies too much on exploiting the physical and mental side of players, but he doesn't build anything solid or complex behind. A lot of managers would do the same if they could, but they don't have his leading qualities. He's good also at analyzing the opposition, neutralizing his strenghts, and he prepares every match taking care of every little detail. His micro-management and his weekly work seems to be really valuable.
But when his teams stop tolerating his high demands of intensity and they drop the focus just a little, you see how basic and average they are, in deep. This way of working makes him successful, but I don't think the clubs are as benefited as him from this kind of aggressive management. When his time is over he moves elsewhere with his tools and medals, and the club is left without any solid buildings.
It's legit he works to find his personal glory, without thinking about the future or the next manager, but I don't like this kind of management for us. If it depended on me, the first thing I'd do is create a more dynamic and modern football structure to make decisions, create a plan and supervise it. A person or a group of people to be a permanent influence, and ensuring everyone comes to 'irrigate the tree', and not to take the fruits from here.
A solid plan with strong values, modern football concepts, well directed and backed by money, sets you in the road for permanent success. I think that's what we need most, and then we can discuss the name of the manager. But we're ruled at the moment by a money maker, some rich people and I don't know who else, so all we can expect is some director of football to negotiate the transfer fees with Jorge Mendes, so Woody has more time to sign new commercial deals.
What did Fergie leave behind after 26 years?
Memories? Yet the way the club is having to be rebuilt, nothing else, which is desperately sad. Also what is LvG leaving behind? A complete and utter mess.
He's won the league last season...
It's as though he hasn't done much recently. Surely that applies to LvG not Jose?
I think the anti Jose people are trying to convince themselves that Jose hasn't achieved anything of note, recently. Yet they completely forget that he is the reigning League Title manager.
Given that logic is being thrown out of the window, it wouldn't surprise me if these people believe that we will win the League and FA Cup this year.
Given that logic is being thrown out of the window, it wouldn't surprise me if these people believe that we will win the League and FA Cup this year.
... and the majority of Caf users was convinced in pre-season that he'll walk the league with Chelsea again ...
His last years were a bit deceiving in my opinion, he didn't reinforce the team like we needed. He looked ran out of ideas and we played garbage, even when we won the league. That league was "bread for today and hunger for tomorrow", the same Jose would bring now. That's precisely my point, the club needs to evolve and add some new structures. By the current path we are at risk of becoming a poor imitation of Real Madrid.
Which wasn't a crazy prediction at the time. If he hadn't lost the players, they could have easily defended their title - look at the state of the league at the moment.
Nobody without inside information could have predicted what happened.
He's also given debuts to a lot of players who did not amount to much in the end. He's generally given a lot of debuts but hasn't really developed as many players as people claim - for instance someone like Iniesta only played a few times under him yet SantiagoBonkers thinks his success is down to LvG.
Is this a joke?
He left behind one of the biggest clubs in world football and a team of champions
I know right.
Some of those players he left behind I'd have back at OT in an instant!
Even with inside information it wasn't predictable - at least not how massively Chelsea would slip. Hiddinck has stopped the landslide but you can't really say that Chelsea players reach their potential now.
My point was directed to @Phil Osophy who claimed that Mourinho hasn't been world class for some years. Nothing pre-season suggested that his time at Chelsea would be up.
Edit: I should add that I really dislike labels like world class as there's no agreed definitions for categories like this, and IMHO it's used more often than I personally would think it's justified.
You can totally disapprove José's methods but he's been undoubtedly one of the most successful managers around for years, and bar this season successful in many leagues with many different players in all competitions.
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He also left us with David Moyes. Should we be grateful for that? Who started our downfall.I know right.
Some of those players he left behind I'd have back at OT in an instant!
The ironic thing is - a lot of people who credit Van Gaal for his scatter-gun approach in terms of handing debuts, and for the future success of Puyol (who was set to join Málaga because Van Gaal had him under Reiziger in the pecking order), Alaba (played a grand total of 10 games under Louis), Iniesta (same boat as Alaba) are adamant in their stance to not extend the same courtesy to José. Even at Madrid, he introduced Morata, Cheryshev, Joselu, José Rodríguez, Jesé, Nacho, Adán etc (IIRC he once selected 7 La Fábrica graduates in a Copa del Rey match vs Alcoyano too, while Van Gaal used first team players in the Carling Cup, and persisted with that setup until his hand was forced through injuries - leading to a rash of first team opportunities for academy graduates - seemingly without a plan to ease them at a more organic pace). But that is overlooked by and large, and apparently - as soon as Mourinho takes over, it'll be shutters for our academy setup.
Jose will give kids who are topnotch a chance and he will not hesitate in buying the best young players if they are available. If a kid gets a chance with Jose you will know they are good. Louis has just been throwing debuts about like confetti.
At the end of the day Fergie recommended Moyes be his successor, it was down to the board whether they hired him though. Yep Fergie was wrong on Moyes, but what have the board done to rectify that mistake? Made it fecking worse if you ask me.
To be fair, LVG has introduced some of the best players of recent times so he must have something about him when it comes to developing young players. But, as you say, it's very hit and miss. The anecdote about him preferring Thomas Kraft over Manuel Neuer suggests that, for every bit of genius he provides, he does something bafflingly bonkers by way of counterweight.
They definitely have and between the lot of them the suffering might not be over. I just hope someone has come to their senses and has their business head on not the sentimental one.
Do we really believe that Fergie actually recommended Moyes as his No.1 choice above all others?
Yes that's the official line from the club but they wouldn't have said anything else, would they? The 'chosen one' line suited everyone when Moyes was appointed. It made Moyes look credible, Fergie look like the godfather and United look as though they'd hired this clown through choice rather than necessity.
In his latest book Fergie rowed back from the chosen one line, saying Moyes had been hired because everyone else had already been chosen. That claim rings far truer to me. Even if Fergie did recommend Moyes, he may well have done so when it emerged that no-one else was available - which isn't the same thing as saying Moyes was the No.1 choice from day one.
Problem is that some of the ones he has introduced you would have to be blind and stupid not to give them a chance. Doesn't mean you should take credit for their development. The people who made them pickable should get that accolade.
So basically LVG's methods with youth development is similar to the UK media's 'throw enough shit and some will stick' policy, only it's 'give enough cnuts debuts and one or two will go on to be great players'?
I was available. I'd have done a better job.
Totally agree. It can't be hard to notice Iniesta is a good player, can it?
As you say, the real credit belongs to the academy coaches in this kind of situation. LVG must have played some kind of role as well though.
Yes. SAF and the Class of '92 was more organised. He knew they were ready and brought them in steadily, not just chuck them in because of an injury crisis and a transfer mess up.
They way the board have acted since, I'm starting to believe that Fergie had feck all to do with it.
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