Pretty sure we had a stellar points per game in the games Carrick and Schneiderlin played together than any other combo.
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Pretty sure we had a stellar points per game in the games Carrick and Schneiderlin played together than any other combo.
I think it was simply a case of Bastian or Carrick for that elder statemen midfield role.
Had Van Gaal stayed it looked like Carrick was in his way out.When Jose came in and having seen Carrick from afar over his tenure in the league chose Carrick. Bastian simply isn't in his plans and Jose isn't interested in trying.Neither Januzaj and Blackett were in his plans either and they too dropped training with the first team before they left. Both were first teamers too. Thats why ive never thought it to be personal.
I think making him train with the reserves is simply to hasten his departure.We are not the first club to use that method.
I understand that some users prefer other players now or think that he's past it (although his first half against France in the ec semis was probably better than any midfielder performance of a united player this season) but to claim that he was horrible or uniteds worst midfielder last season is revisionism at it's finest. People who write that should check his performance thread last season, he was getting high praise for quite a few performances and the best run the team had under van gaal which led united to top of the league for a few days was with him as a starter. So I wouldn't try to rewrite history in order to make an argument.
That may be but says more to me about the system rather than the personnel. Also says a lot about the Van Gaal era with two defensive minded players in the centre of the park
He was very good in the beginning but got progressively worse as the season went on. I think the biggest problem is that he was injured for basically all of the second half of last season, traveling half way around the earth to see his girlfriend play tennis live, while somehow being fit to play in Euros. That's just taking the piss. He's a Bayern and German legend, but he's not a United legend and hasn't earned the right to act that way with us. It also helps that he's injury prone, on high wages, and clearly past it, which makes it easier for Jose to get rid of him.
because he was clearly doing this without LVG's permission while on rehab? Blame the management for that if you must. His standard when playing was always constant. Steady but unspectacular, yet always a calming influence on the rest of the team in the holding role. I don't even recall his fitness progress towards the end of the season, Rooney had taken the midfield role by then anyway as he had to play
He won't have to take a pay cut, and nor should he, a contract is a contract is a contract.
He will move in January and United will subsidise his salary at the new club.
Both are young and academy products being demoted to training with the u21's isn't that big an issue, Blackett wasn't a first teamer and neither was Januzaj under LVG either for that matter. So thats not a great comparison for me.
Schweinsteiger is 32, one of the best players in europe in the last 10 years and from what we can gather a popular member of the squad. As i said if Jose doesn't want him fine but freezing him out of first team training is unnecessary and well a shitty thing to do. Theres no need for it, even when Ferguson wanted rid of certain players like RVN or say Heinze they weren't sent to train with the reserves.
It wasn't so much that Bastian was so bad (though he was) that I'd take anyone over him; it was moreso that Rooney and Fellaini just outperformed him, in my opinion.
The fact that I preferred Rooney and Fellaini, two players I think should be nowhere near our first team and, quite frankly, don't enjoy seeing play, in midfield over him was an indication of how poor he was because it certainly wasn't bias as to why I preferred those two. I mean, they were big factors in our FA Cup run after all, so they do deserve credit alongside Carrick.
But they were first teamers.Full time first team player with squad numbers too and with all the perks that come with playing for the first team like a locker.
That's basically my point.Bastian hasn't been treated any differently,the reaction has just been different because of who he is.
The reason for that being that isn't a first team player anymore and thus isn't entitled to first team privilleges.
It's just asking for trouble keeping a player in the squad that has no chance of playing.so think Jose is fully entitled to decide on who plays or not.Because at the end of the day,this is what this is all about.Everything else is just a consequence of him not playing.
Get him fit and get him back in the team Jose him and Carrick alongside Pogba should be given a chance!
When he was fit he performed better individually than the other midfielders. I think people are taking his fitness issues and getting confused with his ability. A fit, in form BFS is better than any cm we have at the club. What Mourinho has done is typical Mourinho. That's how he operates.
Doesn't matter if he is better than all our CMs combined. If he can't do shit for us and only gets fit for Euros and goes to cheer his girlfriend during the season, then he isn't a player for us at all let alone an important one
If his professionalism was a problem last year and it turned the team against him, Mourinho could have tried to use his experience and knowledge in training in a mentor role, see whether he can help that way and maybe get back into the good graces with the other players. Schweinsteiger was willing to do it at the Euros without starting. There were ways to try to utilize him, before making a final judgment on him. You pay him $12M to sit around now. I´m sure he could do some individual positional video analysis with guys liike Pogba, Herrera or Schneiderlin under Mourinho´s instructions. Just something to see whether he is still engaged. Test his desire that way. To tell a player of his stature to just f*** off did not help anybody.
Jose knows what he is looking for in a midfielder.Quite simply I don't think Bastian has what he needs,especially when his preferred formation is a midfield 2 which Bastian would be hopeless in.
Managers make decisions to get rid of players without giving them a chance all the time.Pep basically made his mind up about Hart before he got there. For me,Jose is well within his rights to tell Bastian to f@@@ off.Managers live and die based on their squad decisions,they should have full authority in deciding who they want to keep.
Him not even being in the squad picture tells you that he will not play for us again
Although I can't rule out an appearance in a legends game.
Blackett and Januzaj were not first team players mate, come on. Blackett didn't even play for us last year, Januzaj was on loan then had the grand total of about 30 minutes playing time on his return. But anyway we're getting off point Schweinsteiger seems like a professional guy and well liked by the players he doesn't seem the type to cause problems.
If he's training with the U21's then he should at least be playing for them but he isn't doing that either as far as i know. Just doesn't make sense to me. If Jose didn't want him anywhere near the first team then he should have been sold or loaned.
Mourinho will have to admit he was wrong in order to bring him back so there's zero chance of it happening.
We don't need to bring him back, our problem is the further forward mixes.
I think we are trying to sell him.
He just doesn't want to move to another club in Europe(his own words),and the Chinese and American Windows had closed by then.
He also might not want to leave as his wages simply cannot be met elsewhere.He's fully entitled to that too.
I think he will leave as soon as the window opens though.
Why does everyone feel sympathy towards him? He had plenty of offers to leave in the summer and he chose to stay at home watching tennis and squeeze all the money out of the club that he could.
I agree, I genuinely think he's retired in his head. I think he likes this club, has settled in the area and it can't be bad to be paid 100k a week for the privilege of using space age fitness equipment.
He still lives in Germany, does he not? I also don't think he likes the club. He likes the money. If he liked the club, he would just leave. There's no way Mourinho will say "I was wrong, come back", maybe if he was in his prime.
I still think he could offer something and his treatment has been poor. Im sure he did have offers to leave but he probably thought he'd try and win a place in the team, he's never been given the opportunity to do so though.
Unless something has gone on which we don't know about, he's handled the situation professionally and far better than the club has.
Unless something has gone on which we don't know about, he's handled the situation professionally and far better than the club has.
Yeah, since he was treated so nicely by Mourinho it would only be fair of him to let go of a ton of money for the club.
Mourinho's attitude was/is completely unreasonable and Schweinsteiger probably thought if he remained professional and trained he'd get a chance. What Mourinho has done is bizarre. Every player should have been given an equal chance at the start of the season but to not even let him have a training session to prove himself is weird.
That is because this is not about actual performances so much as it is about getting Schweinsteiger off the wage bill.
I'm not even sure Mourinho is the driving force behind it, I could imagine that, when planning the squad/transfers for this season it was decided that with Ibra and Pogba coming in someone had to be cut, and they probably concurred that Schweinsteiger would be the one where you could save the most money with the least loss of performance, or something like that.
And therefore they're treating Schweini as if he's not there until he actually leaves.
Didn't they even, when he didn't leave as they wanted, somehow write off his wages from the balance sheet to at least save some taxes? Or count his ostracization as a 'loss in squad value' or some such shit? Then wouldn't it amount to tax fraud to have a commanding Schweini suddenly run their games?
I don't think we know the full story. We've heard snippets from all sides, I just find it hard to believe he would have made this decision out of any sort of spite or pig headedness.
A. Mourinho has generally had a preference for Bastian type midfielders. He has a huge value for experience.
B. It's difficult to know the truth behind his application last year seeing as it was mostly leaked by Rooney to the English press when he was on NT duty. If true though he doesn't sound particularly respected amongst the squad. Basically turning up when he fancied it and jetting around the world after his wife while others knuckled down and tried to get something out of our season.
C. He will have had access to all Bastian's training stats from last year and it probably reflected that of someone overweight, half assing it.
Mourinho came here to win and has made a decision on that basis. It's unfortunate and maybe a player of Bastian's stature doesn't deserve this treatment but let's be completely clear - he's actually done nothing to earn any goodwill at this club. The club that could be argued to have a responsibility to him and could have let him wind down his career effectively pushed him out.
A similar situation is Rooney - in fact an identical scenario to Schweinsteiger at Bayern and Mourinho is showing Rooney the respect he has earned here. The club owe nothing to Bastian and he perhaps would have had a chance if he showed the clubs bit more respect last season and stuck around while he was injured, earning his wage as a mentor rather than a professional Tennis fan.
It's hilarious how you can start a post with 'I don't think we know the whole story' and then proceed to regurgitate that smear campaign stuff that was suddenly, conveniently leaked in the summer window about Schweini's supposed absences, 'jetting around', watching tennis and not showing 'respect' to the club.
Its 'a smear campaign that has been apparently very successful, seeing how often that stuff is posted unquestioned, just as many on here seem susceptible to eating out of the palms of their club's PR department.
Poor Mourinho is all alone in his hotel room but missing a Keane, Scholes, Giggs type. Good man. I like him
It's true though, Schweinsteiger was injured A LOT, would often leave the country and do what he wanted instead of rehabilitating and training.It's hilarious how you can start a post with 'I don't think we know the whole story' and then proceed to regurgitate that smear campaign stuff that was suddenly, conveniently leaked in the summer window about Schweini's supposed absences, 'jetting around', watching tennis and not showing 'respect' to the club.
Its 'a smear campaign that has been apparently very successful, seeing how often that stuff is posted unquestioned, just as many on here seem susceptible to eating out of the palms of their club's PR department.
Poor Mourinho is all alone in his hotel room but missing a Keane, Scholes, Giggs type. Good man. I like him
we will never know the full truth, but mourinho clearly doesn't want anything to do with him, it must have been pretty damning whatever he was told/saw.
So Schweinsteiger didn't train or do reha but still managed to pull top performances out of the hat in the Euros..? Right.
It's either that -or as I posted above, it's got nothing to do with Schweini's footballing ability or fitness state, and neither Mourinho's judgement of those, and all with getting a top earner off the wage bill since you added another two even bigger earners.
We may as well close this thread. Read that Warren Joyce asked if he could have Basti play some games for him, and the answer was NO. Apparently, he's only allowed to train.
Things like tax fraud should be the least of your worries if Schweinsteiger is somehow running games.
Schweinsteiger had a cast until start of May - the only thing he could do was physio dates and we all know that he had his private physio. And it was only in this time that he visited the tennis tournaments.
Sportbild told that Warren Joyce has asked Mourinho several times the recent weeks because he wanted to use Schweinsteiger in his reserve matches but did not get the permission...
No matter how you look at it, but this is just ridiculous and some poor decision making from either Mourinho or the club/management.
That's just bizarre
if you love something, you would fight for it. Now we only know some parts of the entire situation, but from the looks of it, Schweini is faultless at how he's handled the entire saga. You can argue that he brought it upon himself with how he's fecked around last season instead of getting fit, but (as far as we know) that's on LVG since he allowed the nonsense to continue.I'm entirely on Team Mou, but I can't see the reasoning to play Fellaini ahead of Schweini in situations where we need to assert control on the game. To top it off, he's benching Schneiderlin too and has barely given Timbo a chance at CM. Surely the only logical choice at this moment is to give Basti a chance, even just to close games out against bottom feeders?
There's obviously something happened we don't know about. What can we do?
You actually think he was swanning off around the world while LVG was expecting him in training?
Yes, many reports say he would fly back to Germany for the tiniest of injuries and not return in the right timeframe. I guess he thought he could take liberties with LVG, obviously didn't do unnoticed with other players and staff.You actually think he was swanning off around the world while LVG was expecting him in training?
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