Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

I've kind of already touched upon here, but claiming Pique and maybe Alba/Busquets dropping their salaries is enough to get it down so much from the high levels that they can now register 2 big free agents, possibly 3 if Aguero pulls through, just doesn't add up in the slightest. Even if they went to zero.... which according to most of the Barca PR around the Messi ordeal, isn't allowed anyway... so which one is true? You can drop below 50% or you can't?

I mean it's entirely possible. Busquets and Pique were allegedly earning around ~€250k each. They both must have took hefty paycuts probably near 50%. Depay took a 30% reduction in the salary he had already agreed. If they saved €250k off Alba, Busquets and Pique it's quite possible that allowed them to register Depay and Garcia.

I don't know what the deal with Aguero is though.
 
Legit no one in the past 10 years... unless someone wants to correct this. It's myth is pretty dead, everyone's caught up and more to the point, you can get seriously well paid at 17 and play in Europe if you want to develop... ask Sancho and Bellingham.
Ansu Fati?
 
I am not surprised if Barca challenge for title this season to be honest. Depay is a very good signing for them.

This season maybe, thanks to relatively weak opponents (I mean Real Madrid is relying far too much on Modric and they probably pray every day so he stays fit) but Barcelona's massive debt will drag them down year after year.
 
Legit no one in the past 10 years... unless someone wants to correct this. It's myth is pretty dead, everyone's caught up and more to the point, you can get seriously well paid at 17 and play in Europe if you want to develop... ask Sancho and Bellingham. They go elsewhere now very quickly.

You have a couple of good level players like Icardi (even if he only spent 3 years there) but yeah, since Jordi Alba it's really not that great.

You do have Fati or Moriba but they still have a long way to go. I mean there's still a chance that Fati, even if he's very young, doesn't recover all his physical abilities anytime soon. He was supposed to be out for 4 months in the first place and it'll end up being close to a year.
 
I mean it's entirely possible. Busquets and Pique were allegedly earning around ~€250k each. They both must have took hefty paycuts probably near 50%. Depay took a 30% reduction in the salary he had already agreed. If they saved €250k off Alba, Busquets and Pique it's quite possible that allowed them to register Depay and Garcia.

I don't know what the deal with Aguero is though.

But again, according to most... they we're WELL over where they needed to be, to the point that Messi cutting his salary to half at 500k-600k would put them 110% over.... so if his let's say 500k was 15% alone and they were 25% over at 95% which has been reported and told to us by Laporta.

Those 3 going to zero on 250k would equate to 22.5%.... which still puts them at 2.5% over their limit, and that's before registering Depay and Garcia...

This is being tremendously conservative with salaries of Pique, Alba and Busi, as well as madly assuming they'd play for free... but again, even if they was the case(it isn't), it can't be, since Messi "couldn't go lower due to Spanish preventing him signing such a cut contract" and he was a free agent, these 3 aren't, they are in contract. Someones lying.

But they aren't playing for zero, they are just gonna get paid into retirement and/or be massively overpaid coaches or ambassadors for the clubs, delaying the debt.
 
From Laporta:

“This press conference is called because I want to put in context the several situations that you will ask me, and to explain what we have found when we arrived at the club."


"The first thing we had to do when we arrived was to ask for a loan of €80M because otherwise, we could not pay the salaries."


"We also found that we had to do urgent work at the Camp Nou, because if it was not repaired, it posed a risk to the people attending the stadium. Thanks to that we have been able to have an audience."


“We arrived and the club had already received 50% of the TV rights in advance."



"We found a bad wage policy with an inverted pyramid: veterans have long contracts, and young people have short ones."


“The impact of COVID-19 is €91M."



"Barça has a negative net worth of €481M, audited and already presented to the league."


"The club's wage bill is 103% of the club's total revenue. The wage bill is €617M: between 25% and 30% more than our competitors."


"The previous board had someone to discover talents in South America. He charged €8M, an inappropriate amount."



"This is all part of a large operation [by the former board of directors], all to bypass all internal controls. 'Espai Barça's invoices were divided."



"I received Bartomeu's letter and I see it full of lies. With an effort to justify a management that is unjustifiable. It's an exercise in desperation."


"I don't agree with Bartomeu's numbers and figures either. I absolutely disagree. They are responsible until March 17, 2021 and the consequences of their management. No one will escape their responsibilities."



"They [the former board] ended up believing their own lies. And they did not resign because of Procicat [Catalonia's civil protection plan against COVID], they resigned because the motion of censure was successful."



“The debt is €1,350M. The economic and patrimonial situation is very worrying and the financial situation is dramatic."


"In Bartomeu's letter, he spoke of a further €90M salary cut planned. But the players didn't want to talk to him. Moreover, the wages that were lowered were just carry-overs."


"Regarding Barça Corporate, Bartomeu talked about 49% sales and offers. They were also talking about the offer of the CVC, the SuperLeague. Basically, their profits were on the club's mortgage and nothing certain."


"I've lost my count at the amount of lies in that letter."


"The CVC deal was to mortgage television rights for half a century, and it is not structured as income but as a debt: the legal structure is not that they make us a payment, it is like a credit/loan."


"It's another lie. We have not forgiven Neymar €16.5M. We found 4 cross-party demands between Barça and Neymar. It was best for both sides to give up the risks."


"It's not true that the salary cap should be triggered to compete with state-owned clubs. Wasting Neymar's €222M triggers wages and cushioning. The sports policy has been wrong: it has not gone well for us."


"Espai Barça was a hoax. More than 12,000 members had to move from 'first to third grade'. They didn't face the problems because they didn't explain them either."



"Stopping investing was a way to finance itself, and now we have to face urgent repairs that will cost around €20M. In Espai Barça, we are rebuilding the project in a way that is viable and sustainable."


"If the assembly approves the funding, we hope to start the works of Espai Barça in the summer of 2022. The project was undervalued in terms of costs."


"I hope that the other captains act like Piqué. The negotiations are going well. Jordi is right, we contacted him on May 24th. Then he received a letter on July 8th, but I understand the players."


"I thank Piqué for his willingness to help the club. His reduction has helped us to register players. We can register Kun with the agreement we plan to have with the other players."
Wages are 103% of income? I thought they had to get it a lot lower by last Thursday to meet La Liga FFP rules and to then be able to register players (which they now have)?

@Daysleeper ?
 
Some economic data from Joan Laporta's press conference.
€1, 350M gross debt - €551M net debt.

The € 1,350M of gross debt is distributed as follows:

€673M are bank debt.
€389M debt with players.
€56M Espai Barca.
€96M for litigation in which the club thinks that our claims will not be estimated.
€40M for those subscriptions that cannot be collected this year as the club decided to do so since they had not been able to attend any game last season
€79M for the advance payment of 50% of LaLiga's television rights, among other concepts.
What's the litigation they're facing?
 
Some economic data from Joan Laporta's press conference.
€1, 350M gross debt - €551M net debt.

The € 1,350M of gross debt is distributed as follows:

€673M are bank debt.
€389M debt with players.
€56M Espai Barca.
€96M for litigation in which the club thinks that our claims will not be estimated.
€40M for those subscriptions that cannot be collected this year as the club decided to do so since they had not been able to attend any game last season
€79M for the advance payment of 50% of LaLiga's television rights, among other concepts.

Net debt is gross debt minus cash on hand. There is no way Barca have 800M euros on hand. So where is that number coming from? Gross debt minus value of assets?
 
Net debt is gross debt minus cash on hand. There is no way Barca have 800M euros on hand. So where is that number coming from? Gross debt minus value of assets?

Well I'm guessing they are valuing their assets.... you know, the players they can't sell :lol:
 
He's in one of the 4-5 most prestigious clubs in the world, he's still competing for the title every year, he's guaranteed CL qualification every year and he's allegedly paid €400k per week for the next 5 years. If you don't see the attracion to all that... then I'm extremely confused by your reasoning. Not everyone can end up at oil clubs PSG or City, and outside of those where else is guaranteed to be any better than Barca?

So long as the financial situation doesn't a) affect his salary and b) cause Barca to be so uncompetitive they they can't compete... then there's no reason for him to seek to move. This Barca team is still very, very competitive. This team below is not to be sniffed at, they'll very likely put out a title challenge still.

------------------Aguero----------------------
---Depay-------------------Griezmann---
------------Pedri--------De Jong-----------
------------------Busquets-------------------
---Alba----Pique----Garcia----Dest---
------------------Ter Stegen-----------------
Its not a very good team tbh. I dont see that keeping up with Atletico or Real and i dont think they're particularly good either. I would have thought they can forget about adding to that team in the next 2 years too so who replaces Pique, Busquets and Aguero all of whom haven't been great in recent years.
Its not a patch on the team he joined.
 
Its not a very good team tbh. I dont see that keeping up with Atletico or Real and i dont think they're particularly good either. I would have thought they can forget about adding to that team in the next 2 years too so who replaces Pique, Busquets and Aguero all of whom haven't been great in recent years.
Its not a patch on the team he joined.

Proof's in the pudding, I guess we'll see. I don't see Real as better personally, they are relying on some aging stars themselves. Atleti aren't much better as a squad either but they are a very well drilled Simeone team and the favourites.
 
But again, according to most... they we're WELL over where they needed to be, to the point that Messi cutting his salary to half at 500k-600k would put them 110% over.... so if his let's say 500k was 15% alone and they were 25% over at 95% which has been reported and told to us by Laporta.

Those 3 going to zero on 250k would equate to 22.5%.... which still puts them at 2.5% over their limit, and that's before registering Depay and Garcia...

This is being tremendously conservative with salaries of Pique, Alba and Busi, as well as madly assuming they'd play for free... but again, even if they was the case(it isn't), it can't be, since Messi "couldn't go lower due to Spanish preventing him signing such a cut contract" and he was a free agent, these 3 aren't, they are in contract. Someones lying.

But they aren't playing for zero, they are just gonna get paid into retirement and/or be massively overpaid coaches or ambassadors for the clubs, delaying the debt.

I'm assuming most don't know and are speculating. We don't know who took pay cuts, how much, how much each player is paid and how the contract is structured.

Afaik Aguero has not been registered as yet though and he's probably included in the 103% (his contract would be running, he's just not registered).
 
Proof's in the pudding, I guess we'll see. I don't see Real as better personally, they are relying on some aging stars themselves. Atleti aren't much better as a squad either but they are a very well drilled Simeone team and the favourites.
I'm not that familiar with them and they were a completely different proposition with Messi in the 11, so its hard to call how they'll fare. You'd hope others would step up and it might be a bit easier team to balance.
You definitely could be right
 
I'm assuming most don't know and are speculating. We don't know who took pay cuts, how much, how much each player is paid and how the contract is structured.

Afaik Aguero has not been registered as yet though and he's probably included in the 103% (his contract would be running, he's just not registered).

Those percentage numbers are from Laporta himself though thus why most reported them, and I went with the salary you suggested... you can do the math yourself on the rest, which is why I'm being ultra conservative. Because some would have you believe Pique et all were possibly on 400k+ and well they very well could of been, but, yeah, even at more reasonable levels, it doesn't add up, at all.

The updated 103%, again from Laporta himself, would suggest Garcia, Depay and Aguero make up 8% as they were at 95%.... so that would suggest they'd need to cut current players by 33% to get there(70% is where La Liga has told them to be)... so why is Pique the only one taking plaudits and getting all the praise for it? I'm sure if they'd all done it, the likes of Griezmann and co would like a bit of a pat on the back given all the shit they've taken since being there. Knowing the game is fishy as hell, I'm just gonna be cynical about it and know something corrupt is up here.
 
Wages are 103% of income? I thought they had to get it a lot lower by last Thursday to meet La Liga FFP rules and to then be able to register players (which they now have)?

@Daysleeper ?

It seems the 70% is not being enforced because they are definitely still over that. From what I’ve heard la liga has quietly let Barcelona continue and that the 70% was just what La Liga “recommends” Which is kinda BS because Madrid and Sevilla had to sell players to get below a certain threshold to please La Liga.
 
This is beyond shady.
Barca get to break the rules whilst everyone else has to abide by them.
It’s a complete farce.
 
Why are they still signing players?

If they came to me and asked if I’d take a pay cut to dig club out of a hole then fine. But to pay someone else instead? They can get fecked
 
Why is Laporta still even talking about Espai Barsa? Forget about it until the depts are settled.
 
Laporta mentioned today that there is no chance they will sell 'players like Pedri, Fati, de Jong', not for more than hundred million euros...
If no one is ready to buy the players they want to sell, they'll have to start selling the players they dont want to sell. They seem to be drowning in debt.
 
If no one is ready to buy the players they want to sell, they'll have to start selling the players they dont want to sell. They seem to be drowning in debt.
Lets see their stance if and when there is an offer on the table.

Well its a fair point indeed to see how strong those statements are when the actual bids start coming in, and they still havent gotten rid of their 'deadwood'. Maybe there will be some cheeky bids in the final days of the window..
 
Legit no one in the past 10 years... unless someone wants to correct this. It's myth is pretty dead, everyone's caught up and more to the point, you can get seriously well paid at 17 and play in Europe if you want to develop... ask Sancho and Bellingham. They go elsewhere now very quickly.

They have produced a few quality players but failed to Capitalize on them. They just let them go for no money.

Players like adama traore, onana the goalkeeper, Grimaldo the left back could probably go for 40-50m right now.

Then there are average players like Deulofeu and Alena for few millions, Puig and Moriba who could fetch them some more.

Thiago and Ansu Fati are probably their best players from La Masia recent years.
 
Shit doesn't make sense anymore. Can someone explain to me how Barca have been able to register these players when they are clearly still way beyond the limit?
Certainly feeds the notion that Laporta always had no intention of keeping Messi.
 
The club's wage bill is 103% of the club's total revenue. The wage bill is €617M: between 25% and 30% more than our competitors.

I'm really curious about this. According to Swiss Ramble, their wage bill was 443m. in 2019/2020. Bartomeu was creatively hiding almost 200m in wages? Wages for other sports aren't enough to make that difference up.
 
It seems the 70% is not being enforced because they are definitely still over that. From what I’ve heard la liga has quietly let Barcelona continue and that the 70% was just what La Liga “recommends” Which is kinda BS because Madrid and Sevilla had to sell players to get below a certain threshold to please La Liga.
Unfeckingbelievable.

It's no wonder Barca don't seem to care about rules. Partly pandering to their ego and partly as assume (and now know), they won't be touched.
 
I'm really curious about this. According to Swiss Ramble, their wage bill was 443m. in 2019/2020. Bartomeu was creatively hiding almost 200m in wages? Wages for other sports aren't enough to make that difference up.

Here are some figures I've seen reported, it doesn't say whether these exclude bonuses etc.

AS - €391m
Salarysport - £238m
Sportbible - £235m

I've also seen it reported as low as £190m without bonuses and add ons. The truth is, nobody really knows.

I also think there is some confusion between the wage bill and the wage limit. In 2019 Barca had a limit of about €670m, but due to losses during the pandemic and not winning much that has been more than halved.

I do think this pandering to them by the league allowed them to think they could get away with it and just do what they liked. They should be in a situation like Rangers, where they simply have to fold and start again from the bottom. But the same as with Madrid and their dodgy land deals, the Spanish league/authorities will not allow that to happen.
 
Shit doesn't make sense anymore. Can someone explain to me how Barca have been able to register these players when they are clearly still way beyond the limit?
Certainly feeds the notion that Laporta always had no intention of keeping Messi.

Pique must be on €40-50m a year if only him taking a cut did the job?

Or they're not actually under the cap and points deduction imminent :lol:?

No president could keep Messi unless he took giant pay cut, they sell crown jewels like Pedri or Messi agree to play free. The presidential election was all fantasy. No candidate wanted to give the reality to the members...

Bartomeu ran the club in to the ground.
 
They should start selling a spot in their team for massive amount of money. Pretty sure there'll be a few rich folks with money to burn who wants to say they've 'signed' for Barcelona. Just give them a spot on the bench and let them run about in extra time when the game is over and their debt is done.
 

Messi's departure really should put to rest the idea that his insane contract was actually profitable for the club. If he was a money printing machine with a 100m per year contract and was willing to take a 50% paycut you'd hire someone to cut the brakes in Coutinho and Griezmann's cars just to keep him.
 
Messi's departure really should put to rest the idea that his insane contract was actually profitable for the club. If he was a money printing machine with a 100m per year contract and was willing to take a 50% paycut you'd hire someone to cut the brakes in Coutinho and Griezmann's cars just to keep him.
Nobody but the most deluded Messi fanbosy believes he's profitable for the club.
 
Nobody but the most deluded Messi fanbosy believes he's profitable for the club.
I mean he was surely bringing a lot to the club. Just look at how much Beckham(15m per year) and other stars brought Real in the early 00s and that was before social media aswell and were talking here about a GOAT
 
They should start selling a spot in their team for massive amount of money. Pretty sure there'll be a few rich folks with money to burn who wants to say they've 'signed' for Barcelona. Just give them a spot on the bench and let them run about in extra time when the game is over and their debt is done.
I can totally imagine a guy like Elon Musk or some Saudi prince giving a couple of million for that.
 
Proof's in the pudding, I guess we'll see. I don't see Real as better personally, they are relying on some aging stars themselves. Atleti aren't much better as a squad either but they are a very well drilled Simeone team and the favourites.

They have Felix, Correa, Carrasco, Saul, Koke, Oblak, Giminez, Lemar, Vrsaljko who are all at a really good age and are very good players.
 
I mean he was surely bringing a lot to the club. Just look at how much Beckham(15m per year) and other stars brought Real in the early 00s and that was before social media aswell and were talking here about a GOAT
Beyond Adidas and Pepsi, who are his other sponsors? His off the field presence is practically nil.

Beckham is retired for 8 years now and is still more recognisable to the general public than Messi. Messi the player is great, but Messi the brand is just a wasted opportunity.

People keep overrating Messi's and underrating Barcelona's lure to sponsors. They're one of the biggest club in the world before Messi and will continue long after Messi has retired.
 
Nobody but the most deluded Messi fanbosy believes he's profitable for the club.
Barcelona did a PR campaign after his contract leaked and it was effective.

I mean he was surely bringing a lot to the club. Just look at how much Beckham(15m per year) and other stars brought Real in the early 00s and that was before social media aswell and were talking here about a GOAT
Messi brings a lot to the club, but not enough to justify his monstrous salary.

Think about how weird it would be for Messi, the most well-paid player in the world, to be somewhat underpaid at Barcelona, a club that we know was routinely overpaying every other player they had.
 
Beyond Adidas and Pepsi, who are his other sponsors? His off the field presence is practically nil.

Beckham is retired for 8 years now and is still more recognisable to the general public than Messi. Messi the player is great, but Messi the brand is just a wasted opportunity.

People keep overrating Messi's and underrating Barcelona's lure to sponsors. They're one of the biggest club in the world before Messi and will continue long after Messi has retired.
Teenagers and edgelords on Twitter behave like if Barcelona was some small provincial club in a corner of Spain before Messi. They have always been a huge draw, even when they were not winning much silverware. They are very similar to us in that regard. Always had big players and big money moves.

They'll have some lean years but will be back among the main players with some competent financial administration.
 
Beyond Adidas and Pepsi, who are his other sponsors? His off the field presence is practically nil.

Beckham is retired for 8 years now and is still more recognisable to the general public than Messi. Messi the player is great, but Messi the brand is just a wasted opportunity.

People keep overrating Messi's and underrating Barcelona's lure to sponsors. They're one of the biggest club in the world before Messi and will continue long after Messi has retired.
He's got 250m subs on Instagram alone. Becks has 68m.
 
Budget 20/21 (estimated)

Wages and salaries: €230M (first team) €28M (youth teams) €4M (woman) €35M (basket) €6M (handball) €2M (hockey) €4M (futsal) €2M (other sports) €52M (other activities)
Total - €362M

Amortizations: €164M (first team) €28M (other teams)
Total - €192M

Wage bill: €554M (362+192)

This was the estimate that was made for the 20/21 season. In the coming months when the 21/22 budget is approved Joan Laporta will give the real numbers.
Now I will put the economic balance of the 19/20 season, the last one we know in detail.


Wage bill: €636M (salaries + amortizations), if there was no covid it would be €678M (agreement with the players to lower the salary)

Revenue: €855M - (stadium €162M, media and tv €249M, comercial €297M, transfers €148M)
Expenses: €955M - ( wage bill €636M, the rest is non-sports personnel, operating expenses and others)
Ebitda: €103M

No covid: Revenue €1059M, expenses €1029M, ebitda €234M

Gross debt: €820M (420 million is with banks; 323 million with other clubs and 18 million correspond to advance payments)
Cash in hand €162M and the debt that other clubs have with Barça €170M, which amounts in total to 332 million euros to be collected.
Gross debt 820M minus €162M cash in hand minus €170M debt that other clubs have with Barça: Net debt €488M (investments made in the development of Espai Barça is 109 million euros, adjusted debt is 379 million euros)
These are the latest numbers until the next update
 
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