Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

If Barcelona are £1.5b in debt, even taking pandemic aside, how on earth have they ever managed to realistically keep within FFP rules themselves.

It's like they are simply running like a league 2 team after they take away the Messi investments and then his contract costs.
 
Sayros said:
Can you explain that a bit more? I thought TV rights revenue is given every season, no? Are you saying he's taken 50% of the total payments that would have gone Barcelona's way over the years up front? Is that even possible/legal?
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I don't have much information, but this is what Laporta said today:


“Our salaries represent 103 per cent of the club’s total income. That’s 20-25 per cent more than our competitors. The first thing we had to do when we arrived was to ask for a loan of 80million euros because otherwise, we could not pay the salaries. The previous regime was full of lies. We also found that we had to do some urgent repairs to the Camp Nou because otherwise, it posed a risk to the attending fans. We also found out that the club had already received 50 per cent of the TV rights fees in advance. We found the wage policy in the form of what experts call an inverted pyramid – veterans on long contracts and youngsters on short deal. There were no wages cuts – lies. We have found that disproportionate payments have been made to intermediaries, not even agents."

Worrying. I am not sure over what time scale and how it impacts longer term finances, because Laporta didn't provide that detail, but eventually it will come out.
 
MadMike said:
Barca's is structured differently and not secured against a stadium, but I fully disagree on their income being less stable than Spurs.

They are a Spanish giant, who is ever-present in the CL. Spurs future income projections would be extremely unlikely to reach those of Barca.

lCGIHQn.png



Barca earn a whopping 60% more. Spurs are far less likely to be reaching CL spots and approaching Barca in revenue. Barca's CL sport is not under threat. Spurs' source of income is primarily EPL TV rights and matchday revenues. Their matchday revenues won't outstrip Barca's anytime soon, and there's no forecast where La Liga + CL will earn less Barca less than what Spurs make from EPL alone.

Barca have a lot of fat they have to trim but they are also a massive team with more prestige where people want to go and play not just for money. They can pull players on a free (Eric Garcia, Aguero) and some take paycuts to be there (see Depay taking a 30% paycut). They can use that coin for a good few years more before it loses its shine. Spurs don't even have that coin.

Barca also have more young talent in their books than Spurs with De Jong, Pedri, Fati, Garcia, Dest, Trincão, Puig. They have a good young core they can build from. When they manage to get rid of the contracts of Coutinho, Griezmann, Busquets and Dembele they'll be more than fine.
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That Barca number includes 168mm in player sales, which is how they report numbers. For all the revenue they do, their operating profit is staggeringly low in the past, because the revenue number looks a lot higher than EPL clubs, for instance, as they include player sales in that number. The summer they sold Neymar, they projected to receive nearly a billion in revenue. But nearly a quarter of that was selling Neymar, and then blowing more than that on shite players - but discussion is rarely had about the other side of their P&L - at least not until there is a crisis. If I am not mistaken, Barca also have complete control over the running of their merchandise operations, club stores, and shirt manufacturing - which brings in higher gross numbers, but comes at considerable cost. Revenue as a stand alone number is pretty much meaningless. To get a proper idea of how a club is run, we need discussion about EBDITA, not revenue.

Now we also have to take into consideration the downward pressure on revenues of Messi leaving on their commercial department, through shirt sales, sponsorship deals etc.
 
simonhch said:
I don't have much information, but this is what Laporta said today:


“Our salaries represent 103 per cent of the club’s total income. That’s 20-25 per cent more than our competitors. The first thing we had to do when we arrived was to ask for a loan of 80million euros because otherwise, we could not pay the salaries. The previous regime was full of lies. We also found that we had to do some urgent repairs to the Camp Nou because otherwise, it posed a risk to the attending fans. We also found out that the club had already received 50 per cent of the TV rights fees in advance. We found the wage policy in the form of what experts call an inverted pyramid – veterans on long contracts and youngsters on short deal. There were no wages cuts – lies. We have found that disproportionate payments have been made to intermediaries, not even agents."

Worrying. I am not sure over what time scale and how it impacts longer term finances, because Laporta didn't provide that detail, but eventually it will come out.
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Cheers for that, wish he went into greater details because this could be an even bigger issue than we thought when it comes to their financial recovery.
 
Can Bartomeu show his face in the city? Is he as hated by the fans as all this suggests he ought to be?

This is mismanagement on a scale that makes me wonder if he is not criminally liable.
 
Laporta said a lot of transfer money went to ‘intermediaries’ who weren’t even agents, and then the whole stadium repairs costing more than budgeted for, could be a massive case of embezzlement here, on top of the inept management and profligate spending.
 
They’re a mess.

Then again, so is the rest of the league.

Living beyond your means, trying to compete with the Super League (Premier League) was always going to end in this fashion.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Laporta said a lot of transfer money went to ‘intermediaries’ who weren’t even agents, and then the whole stadium repairs costing more than budgeted for, could be a massive case of embezzlement here, on top of the inept management and profligate spending.
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André Cury took is (un)fair share. He was paid 8M over 8 years +commissions to scout in south america. Guess who doesn't have any decent player from south america?
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Laporta said a lot of transfer money went to ‘intermediaries’ who weren’t even agents, and then the whole stadium repairs costing more than budgeted for, could be a massive case of embezzlement here, on top of the inept management and profligate spending.
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Has there been a stadium build or rebuild / repairs that has come in on budget in recent times?
Not including Qatar slave labour in that.
Calculate your number, add 50% and you might be in the right ballpark
I’m guessing they were wildly optimistic especially given how much the cost of raw materials has increased with COVID

edit - not including the very obvious possibility of backhanders for ‘mates’to do the work
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
Surely they have to sell one of Pedri, De Jong or Fatu no matter what Koeman says.
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They don’t.

Roberto, Alba and Busquets are all taking a cut in the months to come.
In 1-2 seasons earners like Pjanic, Lenglet etc. are shipped out in favour of La Masia talents like Gavi, Nico. Garcia on a free replaces Lenglet.

Barca’s economy is bad, but they are not selling any of those three players.
 
From Laporta:

“This press conference is called because I want to put in context the several situations that you will ask me, and to explain what we have found when we arrived at the club."


"The first thing we had to do when we arrived was to ask for a loan of €80M because otherwise, we could not pay the salaries."


"We also found that we had to do urgent work at the Camp Nou, because if it was not repaired, it posed a risk to the people attending the stadium. Thanks to that we have been able to have an audience."


“We arrived and the club had already received 50% of the TV rights in advance."



"We found a bad wage policy with an inverted pyramid: veterans have long contracts, and young people have short ones."


“The impact of COVID-19 is €91M."



"Barça has a negative net worth of €481M, audited and already presented to the league."


"The club's wage bill is 103% of the club's total revenue. The wage bill is €617M: between 25% and 30% more than our competitors."


"The previous board had someone to discover talents in South America. He charged €8M, an inappropriate amount."



"This is all part of a large operation [by the former board of directors], all to bypass all internal controls. 'Espai Barça's invoices were divided."



"I received Bartomeu's letter and I see it full of lies. With an effort to justify a management that is unjustifiable. It's an exercise in desperation."


"I don't agree with Bartomeu's numbers and figures either. I absolutely disagree. They are responsible until March 17, 2021 and the consequences of their management. No one will escape their responsibilities."



"They [the former board] ended up believing their own lies. And they did not resign because of Procicat [Catalonia's civil protection plan against COVID], they resigned because the motion of censure was successful."



“The debt is €1,350M. The economic and patrimonial situation is very worrying and the financial situation is dramatic."


"In Bartomeu's letter, he spoke of a further €90M salary cut planned. But the players didn't want to talk to him. Moreover, the wages that were lowered were just carry-overs."


"Regarding Barça Corporate, Bartomeu talked about 49% sales and offers. They were also talking about the offer of the CVC, the SuperLeague. Basically, their profits were on the club's mortgage and nothing certain."


"I've lost my count at the amount of lies in that letter."


"The CVC deal was to mortgage television rights for half a century, and it is not structured as income but as a debt: the legal structure is not that they make us a payment, it is like a credit/loan."


"It's another lie. We have not forgiven Neymar €16.5M. We found 4 cross-party demands between Barça and Neymar. It was best for both sides to give up the risks."


"It's not true that the salary cap should be triggered to compete with state-owned clubs. Wasting Neymar's €222M triggers wages and cushioning. The sports policy has been wrong: it has not gone well for us."


"Espai Barça was a hoax. More than 12,000 members had to move from 'first to third grade'. They didn't face the problems because they didn't explain them either."



"Stopping investing was a way to finance itself, and now we have to face urgent repairs that will cost around €20M. In Espai Barça, we are rebuilding the project in a way that is viable and sustainable."


"If the assembly approves the funding, we hope to start the works of Espai Barça in the summer of 2022. The project was undervalued in terms of costs."


"I hope that the other captains act like Piqué. The negotiations are going well. Jordi is right, we contacted him on May 24th. Then he received a letter on July 8th, but I understand the players."


"I thank Piqué for his willingness to help the club. His reduction has helped us to register players. We can register Kun with the agreement we plan to have with the other players."
 
DaGOAT said:
They don’t.

Roberto, Alba and Busquets are all taking a cut in the months to come.
In 1-2 seasons earners like Pjanic, Lenglet etc. are shipped out in favour of La Masia talents like Gavi, Nico. Garcia on a free replaces Lenglet.

Barca’s economy is bad, but they are not selling any of those three players.
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Even that doesn’t sound like it’s going to be enough. They need to clear Griezman, Coutinho and the likes now. They won’t be able to flog Dembele at the moment.

They might be forced in to having to cash in on one of them as their most valuable assets but for their sake I hope it doesn’t come to that. Having to sell a Fati, DeJong or Pedri would be the nail in the coffin really. They are what they need to rebuild with.
 
I'm not sure i'd be keen to stay if i were them. It makes sense for Fati and Pedri who you'd expect to have a decent guarantee of playing time but i dont see the attraction for De Jong or Ter Stegen anymore. Suppose they have longish contracts?
 
DaGOAT said:
In 1-2 seasons earners like Pjanic, Lenglet etc. are shipped out in favour of La Masia talents like Gavi, Nico. Garcia on a free replaces Lenglet.
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How do you think they'll achieve that? Pjanic has a contract for 3 more years till 2024. He is a 31yo who managed only 1300 mins last season (around 14 full games) and is earning €300k pw. Who will take him off Barca?

Lenglet has a contract till 2026. He's only on €120k but it's still a lot ofr such a woeful player. Who will compensate Barca for him?
 
Some economic data from Joan Laporta's press conference.
€1, 350M gross debt - €551M net debt.

The € 1,350M of gross debt is distributed as follows:

€673M are bank debt.
€389M debt with players.
€56M Espai Barca.
€96M for litigation in which the club thinks that our claims will not be estimated.
€40M for those subscriptions that cannot be collected this year as the club decided to do so since they had not been able to attend any game last season
€79M for the advance payment of 50% of LaLiga's television rights, among other concepts.
 
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caid said:
I'm not sure i'd be keen to stay if i were them. It makes sense for Fati and Pedri who you'd expect to have a decent guarantee of playing time but i dont see the attraction for De Jong or Ter Stegen anymore. Suppose they have longish contracts?
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He's in one of the 4-5 most prestigious clubs in the world, he's still competing for the title every year, he's guaranteed CL qualification every year and he's allegedly paid €400k per week for the next 5 years. If you don't see the attracion to all that... then I'm extremely confused by your reasoning. Not everyone can end up at oil clubs PSG or City, and outside of those where else is guaranteed to be any better than Barca?

So long as the financial situation doesn't a) affect his salary and b) cause Barca to be so uncompetitive they they can't compete... then there's no reason for him to seek to move. This Barca team is still very, very competitive. This team below is not to be sniffed at, they'll very likely put out a title challenge still.

------------------Aguero----------------------
---Depay-------------------Griezmann---
------------Pedri--------De Jong-----------
------------------Busquets-------------------
---Alba----Pique----Garcia----Dest---
------------------Ter Stegen-----------------
 
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When do we start to see links to some of the players they desperately want to retain? Continuous stories about no one wanting Umtiti and the likes, but nothing on de Jong or Pedri.
 
MadMike said:
How do you think they'll achieve that? Pjanic has a contract for 3 more years till 2024. He is a 31yo who managed only 1300 mins last season (around 14 full games) and is earning €300k pw. Who will take him off Barca?

Lenglet has a contract till 2026. He's only on €120k but it's still a lot ofr such a woeful player. Who will compensate Barca for him?
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I have yet to understand why anyone at Barcelona would think the Arthur/Pjanic "swap" was a good idea considering their wage issue since Pjanic earns far more that the salary Arthur had. That was a terrible, terrible move.
 
As bent as he's claiming the previous regime was, he's hardly being totally upfront himself. But the sport encourages such shadyness by not making it mandatory to publicise salaries and what not.

The salaries I see for some of their players are all over the place, Griezmann 800k crops up a lot on click bait links, but more 'reputable' sources suggest he's on below half that, but then, truly, who knows? I think they've just got stuck with too many on 250k-400k, but the issue is that they are 'amortizing' massive amounts for those massive transfers...essentially, for 2 more years at least, they are still paying like £100m for Dembele/Coutinho/Pjanic/Griezmann 'in the books' before salaries :lol:

FM used to have something similar where you could just buy your squad in the first windows paying the fee across 24-36 months, but cripples your budgets next two seasons.... reality just went ten times more extreme. (FM kinda fixed it for instance)
 
8m for scouting in South America. Who did they sign in that time frame?
 
Oly Francis said:
I have yet to understand why anyone at Barcelona would think the Arthur/Pjanic "swap" was a good idea considering their wage issue since Pjanic earns far more that the salary Arthur had. That was a terrible, terrible move.
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It was all to done to finagle their financial reports and post a profit before the end of the financial year otherwise the directors would become personally liable.

Explaining Why Juventus Are So Willing To Swap Miralem Pjanic For Barcelona's Arthur Melo (forbes.com)

What also makes sense is the financials of the deal. On paper, Barcelona are said to be paying €70 million for Pjanic, while younger man Arthur is costing Juve €80 million, which looks to work out as a swap deal plus €10 million cash from the Bianconeri. However, FFP rules mean that both clubs will be able to report €60 million profit on their books, due to player amortisation.

Barca paid €30 million for Arthur in 2018 on a six-year deal, meaning that his value decreases by €5 million per year in terms of FFP. Therefore, he is now worth €20m in terms of their accounting, meaning a sale for the equivalent of €80 million means the Catalan side can show a €60 million profit.

Similarly, Pjanic arrived in Turin from Roma for €35 million in July 2016 on a five-year contract, meaning his FFP value reduces by €7m per year, leaving €21 million in value on the books after two years when he was handed a new five-year contract by the club. The remaining €21 million is then divided by five and therefore reduces by €4.2 million per year, and currently leaving €13 million in value on Juve’s accounts. A €70 million sale therefore leaves a tidy €57 million profit for the Old Lady.

Factoring in both the clear unsuitability of Pjanic for Sarri’s style of play and the potential FFP profit to be gained in his sale, a swap for Arthur makes perfect sense. With a new player in that pivotal regista position, Juventus look much more likely to unlock the beautiful style of football that they undoubtedly brought the current boss in to achieve.
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DaGOAT said:
From Laporta:

“This press conference is called because I want to put in context the several situations that you will ask me, and to explain what we have found when we arrived at the club."


"The first thing we had to do when we arrived was to ask for a loan of €80M because otherwise, we could not pay the salaries."


"We also found that we had to do urgent work at the Camp Nou, because if it was not repaired, it posed a risk to the people attending the stadium. Thanks to that we have been able to have an audience."


“We arrived and the club had already received 50% of the TV rights in advance."



"We found a bad wage policy with an inverted pyramid: veterans have long contracts, and young people have short ones."


“The impact of COVID-19 is €91M."



"Barça has a negative net worth of €481M, audited and already presented to the league."


"The club's wage bill is 103% of the club's total revenue. The wage bill is €617M: between 25% and 30% more than our competitors."


"The previous board had someone to discover talents in South America. He charged €8M, an inappropriate amount."



"This is all part of a large operation [by the former board of directors], all to bypass all internal controls. 'Espai Barça's invoices were divided."



"I received Bartomeu's letter and I see it full of lies. With an effort to justify a management that is unjustifiable. It's an exercise in desperation."


"I don't agree with Bartomeu's numbers and figures either. I absolutely disagree. They are responsible until March 17, 2021 and the consequences of their management. No one will escape their responsibilities."



"They [the former board] ended up believing their own lies. And they did not resign because of Procicat [Catalonia's civil protection plan against COVID], they resigned because the motion of censure was successful."



“The debt is €1,350M. The economic and patrimonial situation is very worrying and the financial situation is dramatic."


"In Bartomeu's letter, he spoke of a further €90M salary cut planned. But the players didn't want to talk to him. Moreover, the wages that were lowered were just carry-overs."


"Regarding Barça Corporate, Bartomeu talked about 49% sales and offers. They were also talking about the offer of the CVC, the SuperLeague. Basically, their profits were on the club's mortgage and nothing certain."


"I've lost my count at the amount of lies in that letter."


"The CVC deal was to mortgage television rights for half a century, and it is not structured as income but as a debt: the legal structure is not that they make us a payment, it is like a credit/loan."


"It's another lie. We have not forgiven Neymar €16.5M. We found 4 cross-party demands between Barça and Neymar. It was best for both sides to give up the risks."


"It's not true that the salary cap should be triggered to compete with state-owned clubs. Wasting Neymar's €222M triggers wages and cushioning. The sports policy has been wrong: it has not gone well for us."


"Espai Barça was a hoax. More than 12,000 members had to move from 'first to third grade'. They didn't face the problems because they didn't explain them either."



"Stopping investing was a way to finance itself, and now we have to face urgent repairs that will cost around €20M. In Espai Barça, we are rebuilding the project in a way that is viable and sustainable."


"If the assembly approves the funding, we hope to start the works of Espai Barça in the summer of 2022. The project was undervalued in terms of costs."


"I hope that the other captains act like Piqué. The negotiations are going well. Jordi is right, we contacted him on May 24th. Then he received a letter on July 8th, but I understand the players."


"I thank Piqué for his willingness to help the club. His reduction has helped us to register players. We can register Kun with the agreement we plan to have with the other players."
Click to expand...
Laporta has a huge job on hand to clean up the mess of Rosell and Bartomeu. I don't even understand how these two can be elected as President. They basically destroyed the club.
 
Zen said:
As bent as he's claiming the previous regime was, he's hardly being totally upfront himself. But the sport encourages such shadyness by not making it mandatory to publicise salaries and what not.
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I mean, it's quite possible but what makes you say that? He's the first president I recall openly speaking about the financial situation.
 
MadMike said:
That's the same debt Spurs are in after the construction of the New White Hart Lane. And Spurs' total earnings are less than Barca's.

If Barca sort out their salary outgoing, they'll be fine.
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Yes but Spurs don’t have wages which are 110% of the revenue they make. Barca need to sort the wages issue out but that means some mass selling or huge wage reductions which isn’t easy to do.
 
Chief123 said:
Yes but Spurs don’t have wages which are 110% of the revenue they make. Barca need to sort the wages issue out but that means some mass selling or huge wage reductions which isn’t easy to do.
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Barcelona will be fine. They just need 2 to 3 years breathing room to clear the wage commitment.
 
Barca should honestly consider their long term financial health over short term success. They still have a fantastic academy. Over the next three seasons or so they should try to get rid of all those on massive wages/those who can command a good feed and focus on getting the debt down. Ten years of mediocrity (they'll still get into CL places) will be worth it.
 
Chief123 said:
Yes but Spurs don’t have wages which are 110% of the revenue they make. Barca need to sort the wages issue out but that means some mass selling or huge wage reductions which isn’t easy to do.
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Oh I agree, they have a massive job particularly because the have some old players on expensive contracts and they can't get rid of them for another 2-3 years depending on the player (Griezmann 2024, Pjanic 2024, Pique 2024, Busquets 2023, Coutinho 2023). They just can't really sign anyone for another 2-3 years until they've cleared the decks, brought the salaries down and put some money in the bank.

However it's also worth mentioning that the reason the wages are 103% of the revenue is because they lost €90m due to covid which is ~13% of their revenue. If they get fans back they will be balanced again. They'll just use the coin of their massive reputation and pull to sign players on a free for the next couple of years.
 
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MadMike said:
I mean, it's quite possible but what makes you say that? He's the first president I recall openly speaking about the financial situation.
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I've kind of already touched upon here, but claiming Pique and maybe Alba/Busquets dropping their salaries is enough to get it down so much from the high levels that they can now register 2 big free agents, possibly 3 if Aguero pulls through, just doesn't add up in the slightest. Even if they went to zero.... which according to most of the Barca PR around the Messi ordeal, isn't allowed anyway... so which one is true? You can drop below 50% or you can't?

La Liga itself obviously doesn't help. Nothings proved to me how utterly bizarre the financials in football are until Barca 2021... and I already found ultra bizarre anyway :lol:
 
RC89 said:
Barca should honestly consider their long term financial health over short term success. They still have a fantastic academy. Over the next three seasons or so they should try to get rid of all those on massive wages/those who can command a good feed and focus on getting the debt down. Ten years of mediocrity (they'll still get into CL places) will be worth it.
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They have a really good academy but for the past 8 years, how many players did they develop to a top team level? Not many and it's far from being enough to suggest they could rebuild their team any time soon thanks to the academy. The Mess/Xavi/Iniesta/Busquets/Piqué era is long gone. Players like Pedri or De Jong won't stay at Barcelona for long if they're not competing for a title.
 
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Oly Francis said:
They have a really good academy but for the past 8 years, how many players did they developped to a top team level? Not many and it's far from being enough to suggest they could rebuild their team any time soon thanks to the academy. The Mess/Xavi/Iniesta/Busquets/Piqué era is long gone. Players like Pedri or De Jong won't stay at Barcelona for long if they're not competing for a title.
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I am not surprised if Barca challenge for title this season to be honest. Depay is a very good signing for them.
 
Oly Francis said:
They have a really good academy but for the past 8 years, how many players did they developped to a top team level? Not many and it's far from being enough to suggest they could rebuild their team any time soon thanks to the academy. The Mess/Xavi/Iniesta/Busquets/Piqué era is long gone. Players like Pedri or De Jong won't stay at Barcelona for long if they're not competing for a title.
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Legit no one in the past 10 years... unless someone wants to correct this. It's myth is pretty dead, everyone's caught up and more to the point, you can get seriously well paid at 17 and play in Europe if you want to develop... ask Sancho and Bellingham. They go elsewhere now very quickly.
 
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