Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

So does this lever mean they don't need FDJ to leave or will it speed things up or does nothing change until the next lever

Either way it really is weird situation and to witness what is happening and how they act

I believe they will still want to sell him. Cashflow is a major issue for Barcelona, which is why they have needed to defer wages so many times over the past years. They may get this lump sum in, but this cash is not much good if they do not stop their wages from inflating again. With the net transfers from January and this summer, those wages will have grown about €45m for next season with more signings possibly to come. With the net transfer fees of about €160m for those players also to be paid, the cash from those levers will run out relatively quickly unless they start bringing more in.

They cannot sustain a growing wage bill on top of reducing their cashflow income into the future.
 
Signing 34 year old Lewandowski for 50m and the huge wages doesn't seem like a sustainable plan
There is no reason to think Lewandowski can't play at a high level till 37 just like C. Ronaldo. 50m euros seems reasonable to me.
 
There is no reason to think Lewandowski can't play at a high level till 37 just like C. Ronaldo. 50m euros seems reasonable to me.
Yeah but Ronaldo since he left Real Madrid at 33 made the CL quarter finals once and the Ro16 3 times. All players inevitably hit a rapid decline at those ages. They finished 2nd last year without him but they are more than a 34 year old Lewandowski and some squad players away from reaching the pinnacle of European football.
 
Yeah but Ronaldo since he left Real Madrid at 33 made the CL quarter finals once and the Ro16 3 times. All players inevitably hit a rapid decline at those ages. They finished 2nd last year without him but they are more than a 34 year old Lewandowski and some squad players away from reaching the pinnacle of European football.
In my opinion, Barcelona has a very strong team this year and Xavi is an excellent coach. They created a lot of chance last season but lack a top striker to finish the chance.
 
There is no reason to think Lewandowski can't play at a high level till 37 just like C. Ronaldo. 50m euros seems reasonable to me.
It’s 50 plus 20 to the agent over the course of his contract and that doesn’t include wages which is what? An extra 40m? For a 34 year old?
It’s insane. What happens if this doesn’t work out? It’s all in on this transfer window and it’s fecking bonkers.
Xavi badly faded as the season went on last year so let’s say he fails. Can they even afford a moderate rebuild after this? Remember they have to constantly be successful now. Not a league title here or there but constant winners and deep runs In the CL.
Any sort of stumble has a devastating domino affect from here on in.
 
In my opinion, Barcelona has a very strong team this year and Xavi is an excellent coach. They created a lot of chance last season but lack a top striker to finish the chance.
Since Xavi took over they actually created less xG in the league than Villareal but scored more goals than their xG (implying they were in fact, clinical). They got 52 xPts in 27 games... On pace for 73 points. Pretty much exactly the same as their pace before Xavi got hired that season (slightly less actually). Not like he did any well in the cups either.

Xavi might be a good coach. The same way Ole "may" have been a good coach when we hired him, or Lampard at Chelsea. Or Arteta "might" be a good coach. There is nothing backing any of them up to actually be one, apart from blind hope that you can only tell over time. Xavi's time in charge has been incredibly "meh" so far, but it's only been a little over half a season so fair enough. I am definitely not holding my breath on him being anything more than Ole was at United though, which was fine for a couple of seasons but not enough to actually close the gap to the top teams but enough to keep people happy for a bit (with the big difference that Barca need success financially, and are a bit fecked without it).
 
Having a 34 year old striker on 360k a week, with his backup being 33 years old on 220k a week, and 3rd choice being 28 years old on 200k a week is tragic. Its not a small part. You now have right winners in Dembele and Raphinha at 25 years old who are on 260k and 240k per week. Christensen, who is decidedly average and will likely get benched very quickly, is given 200k a week. Kessie on 260k. And so on.

Just looking at the squad list, it's a shit show and not a good squad. There are 10 players that are aged 30 or above. Then when you factor in the wages and realize that they are in fact still giving out crazy wages to tons of average players or big contracts to end of career players... What the feck are they doing? So what is the big picture? Spending hundreds of millions on a squad that will need a complete revamp in 2 years, except in 2 years they will have less money to spend due to selling off future profits, for average players now? Its insane. All this talk about how they're changing the wage structure, but they're signing loads (and not even good signings) and spending big when they can't even register them without this boost, and this income is a 1 time boost. So what's the plan next year when they don't have this big boost in? Cut contracts again? Panic sell and get stuck with not enough players, except now you don't have a bail out? It makes no sense, and even if you ignore the financial suicidal nature... They are not even good signings. Which is the craziest part. You aren't mortgaging your future and spending smartly and buying younger stars who will be key players long term. You are mortgaging your future for squad players or end of career players.

- I have already told you that a large part of the levers are going to pay debt.

- Barcelona in 2 years will need a complete revamp? Barcelona has a lot of young and many are important already.

- Barcelona cannot register players by the Spanish FFP, if it were established in the premier league no team could register players either.

The big picture is this:

- Piqué, Alba, Busquets, FDJ and Ter Stegen = €110M gross/year. These are the only players who are not on the pay scale yet.

- Lewa €18M

- Araujo, Pedri, Gavi, Ansu, Depay, Raphinha, Pjanic, Auba, Kessie, Christensen, Dembele, F. Torres. = €108M gross/year. These players are on the salary scale of 8-10M gross + variables. Variables will range between €1-3M and include winning titles.

Umtiti 6M, Neto 6M, S. Roberto 4M, Dest 5M, Nico 3M, R. Puig 3M, Braithwate 3M, Mingueza 3M, P. Torre 2M.

Total= 110+18+108+35= 271M

Right now, we'll see the players who are yet to come and go.When the five who earn the most are no longer there, Barcelona will have quite a salary margin.
If this year Barcelona's wage bill was 560 million, it is due to deferred salaries and the high amortizations they had from previous season.





There’s no point explaining the obvious to them. They think what they’re doing is marvelous.

Everyone on the outside, every single person in football not Barcelona connected, can see they’re playing a very very dangerous game.

They’re so arrogant that they’d sooner turn it into a hate thread than a discussion.

What is the obvious to you? You could give arguments and figures?
 
It is a matter of opinion but I actually agreed with the practice of the current Barcelona board. For their business model they need to be competitive all the time to maintain their attractiveness and their branding. They need some breathing room in short term. Their income pre-covid was at 1 billion so they will be fine service their debt.

A good read on how Lewandowski can help barcelona.

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/p...202223-scout-report-tactical-analysis-tactics
 
It is a matter of opinion but I actually agreed with the practice of the current Barcelona board. For their business model they need to be competitive all the time to maintain their attractiveness and their branding. They need some breathing room in short term. Their income pre-covid was at 1 billion so they will be fine service their debt.

A good read on how Lewandowski can help barcelona.

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/p...202223-scout-report-tactical-analysis-tactics
What was their profit pre covid?
 
There is no reason to think Lewandowski can't play at a high level till 37 just like C. Ronaldo. 50m euros seems reasonable to me.
Paying 70m plus crazy wages for a player that will have a resale value of close to 0 when his contract is up, when you're in dire financial straits, isn't the greatest idea ever.
 
Paying 70m plus crazy wages for a player that will have a resale value of close to 0 when his contract is up, when you're in dire financial straits, isn't the greatest idea ever.
Most players are running down their contract at the top club anyway so forget about resale value.
 
This is more what I’m talking about
https://www.statista.com/statistics/765267/evolution-from-the-income-of-the-fc-barcelona/
The money they actually make in profit isn’t that much. In Spain they include players sold in their accounts and Barca produce their own merchandise which has their profit recorded for the billion income nonsense but not the cost. There’s a reason Utd sell that off to Nike etc for a higher fee and just a percentage of the profits. It doesn’t really pay to produce that themselves.

Their highest income avenue is tv rights and merchandise. That sat on 85 percent from your link. So much of that being sold off is money they dont have anymore to turn a profit when they make so little anyway.
 
This is more what I’m talking about
https://www.statista.com/statistics/765267/evolution-from-the-income-of-the-fc-barcelona/
The money they actually make in profit isn’t that much. In Spain they include players sold in their accounts and Barca produce their own merchandise which has their profit recorded for the billion income nonsense but not the cost. There’s a reason Utd sell that off to Nike etc for a higher fee and just a percentage of the profits. It doesn’t really pay to product that themselves.

Their highest income avenue is tv rights and merchandise. That sat on 85 percent from your link. So much of that being sold off is money they dont have anymore to turn a profit when they make so little anyway.
Their board needs to find a way to increase revenue and decrease expense, just like every other club, and especially after they activated the lever. No question about it. With the difficulty they are under right now they need the breathing room, and extreme austerity measures is probably not a solution. A further drop in the quality of their team is going to hurt even more for their business model. That is just my opinion.
 
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- Barcelona in 2 years will need a complete revamp? Barcelona has a lot of young and many are important already.
This is your list of 30 or above.
  • Pique
  • Busquets
  • Alba
  • Lewandowski
  • Aubameyang
  • Pjanić
  • Neto
  • Braithwaite
  • Neto
  • Sergi Roberto
There is a decent group of young guys like Fati/Gavi/Pedri, but the group above is a core of players on massive wages who at least half of them get very important minutes so far. Of course a big chunk of wages will clear, but they aren't sellable assets and you'll need to replace most of them. I'd say that's a pretty big rebuild.

Barcelona cannot register players by the Spanish FFP, if it were established in the premier league no team could register players either.
For the life of me I can't find the thread/article/comparison from last year, but this isn't true at all. Some clubs fecked of course (Everton), but most of them pretty much fine and PL clubs just don't spend anywhere near as much on wages to turnover as Spanish clubs do and have healthier sources of income (which also points to them not being hit too hard during COVID, or not as bad as other leagues).

I get your point generally, but i still don't see spending 200k per week on Christensen as healthy, or 70m and 240k per week on a rotation winger as healthy. The new salary budget can't be "nobody goes above 350k but everybody can have 200k". That's still shit. We'll see what happens with the other players, I agree that the biggest problems are the older existing contracts but they'll be around for a few years yet. Once those are sorted, it remains to be seen what happens. For example... Fati is 19 but on 270k per week basically. Is he just not going to get salary increases then? There are 13 players who are above 10m per year, and each of the new signings are part of that group despite 2 of them being squad players. And those were signed on the basis of selling future revenues, without being able to sell players they want to sell... Its still not healthy.
 
Absolute morons selling off future revenue to finance buying players. So desperate for new toys that they have to activate these levers just to buy new players rather than being frugal and accepting that they might not compete at the very top for a few years.

Do they think that signing Lewandowski is going to make them successful over the next five years? What happens next summer when their fans demand more signings? More levers?

Idiots.
 
I find their approach just crazy. Surely selling high earners and building a team of youngsters & reasonable freebies for a couple of years would have been better for the sustainability of the club? Throwing money around, raised by selling of economic values of the club seems terribly short sighted
 
It’s like your parents selling off their mortgage free home to an investment company for a little cash and the promise they can live there till they die. Shady business!
 
Because my point isn't about other clubs. Your answer couldn't be more irrelevant.

and your point is based on...???
you say that it is a great relationship because adidas pays them.
how much would adidas pay if they weren't shareholders? my guess is the same, based on what adidas and nike pay other teams.
so, what is the benefit of adidas buying bayern shares regarding the marketing deal they have? because they would pay the same with or without shares.
so my questions remains, why is that relationship beneficial for bayern if they could get the same money????

I find their approach just crazy. Surely selling high earners and building a team of youngsters & reasonable freebies for a couple of years would have been better for the sustainability of the club? Throwing money around, raised by selling of economic values of the club seems terribly short sighted

the most part of the "levers" has gone to pay debt.
big earners don't want to leave and makes it difficult. do you think barça didn't try to sell them? anyway, aside from messi we got rid of coutinho and griezmann. dembele wages were dramatically reduced too.
half of the starter squad is <23, a few of them even <20.
only a few old players are not in the new wage scale.
barça has sold 5% of the current total revenues (expected to be less in the future).

Absolute morons selling off future revenue to finance buying players. So desperate for new toys that they have to activate these levers just to buy new players rather than being frugal and accepting that they might not compete at the very top for a few years.

Do they think that signing Lewandowski is going to make them successful over the next five years? What happens next summer when their fans demand more signings? More levers?

Idiots.

"just to buy new players"
reality is that 80% of the raised money has gone to pay debt.
barça has sold 5% of their current revenues, that number will be lower in the future.
the rest is an investment in the team to be able to compete and generate more income than if we were a middle table team. missing champions league has more impact in the revenue of the year that the money we "lose" with the levers.
it is of course debatable if 45M makes sense for lewa, or 50 for raphinha (not in my mind), but reality is far from your picture.


It’s like your parents selling off their mortgage free home to an investment company for a little cash and the promise they can live there till they die. Shady business!

that example makes 0 sense.
a better example is that you have a mortgage to pay and you sell 5% of the revenues from your salary for the next 10 years to pay off for the mortgage (or a big chunk of it) and spend a small part of the received money to invest in a business.

i honestly don't know where you think loans/mortgage payments come from.
 
You bought Rafa for 60m despite having Dembele. For s club that’s up to its eyes in debt, your transfer strategy is all over the place
 
Paying 70m plus crazy wages for a player that will have a resale value of close to 0 when his contract is up, when you're in dire financial straits, isn't the greatest idea ever.
And while I would never cast doubt upon the class of Lewandowski and even despite the obvious likelihood that he might hit a wall quite soon, he’s not even that good for marketing. It’s not like he has a similar pull like Ronaldo or Messi or even guys like Ibra. So him performing on roughly the same level as he did in the last years, which is all but given, is basically necessary for this deal to even have a chance at working out financially.
He is not just very expensive. In my opinion it’s nearly impossible for him to justify the costs.
 
and your point is based on...???
you say that it is a great relationship because adidas pays them.
how much would adidas pay if they weren't shareholders? my guess is the same, based on what adidas and nike pay other teams.
so, what is the benefit of adidas buying bayern shares regarding the marketing deal they have? because they would pay the same with or without shares.
so my questions remains, why is that relationship beneficial for bayern if they could get the same money????

The obvious answer is that Bayern have stable, extremely long term sponsors, they don't need to chase anyone, they have them in-house and they pay them fair value. Bayern is a good billboard for these companies and something that is important for these companies in particular is that they are all based in Bavaria and are kind of proud of it. Everyone is getting what they want.

And has someone else suggested, change your tone.
 
The obvious answer is that Bayern have stable, extremely long term sponsors, they don't need to chase anyone, they have them in-house and they pay them fair value. Bayern is a good billboard for these companies and something that is important for these companies in particular is that they are all based in Bavaria and are kind of proud of it. Everyone is getting what they want.

And has someone else suggested, change your tone.

what tone? just plain facts and questions. can you point where im being disrespectful in the message you are responding?

barça or madrid don't need to chase anyone.
barça has been with nike since 1998 and counting, until 2026 minimum if im not mistaken. almost 3 decades for now. do you consider it short term? unstable?
besides, nike pays more money to barça than adidas to bayern.
 
what tone? just plain facts and questions. can you point where im being disrespectful in the message you are responding?

barça or madrid don't need to chase anyone.
barça has been with nike since 1998 and counting, until 2026 minimum if im not mistaken. almost 3 decades for now. do you consider it short term? unstable?
besides, nike pays more money to barça than adidas to bayern.

I don't care about Barca and Madrid, the point had nothing to do with either of them. I made a point about Bayern and their relation with Allianz, Adidas and Audi.

And I'm talking about your multiple question marks, in writing it's rude.
 
and your point is based on...???
you say that it is a great relationship because adidas pays them.
how much would adidas pay if they weren't shareholders? my guess is the same, based on what adidas and nike pay other teams.
so, what is the benefit of adidas buying bayern shares regarding the marketing deal they have? because they would pay the same with or without shares.
so my questions remains, why is that relationship beneficial for bayern if they could get the same money????

the most part of the "levers" has gone to pay debt.
big earners don't want to leave and makes it difficult. do you think barça didn't try to sell them? anyway, aside from messi we got rid of coutinho and griezmann. dembele wages were dramatically reduced too.
half of the starter squad is <23, a few of them even <20.
only a few old players are not in the new wage scale.
barça has sold 5% of the current total revenues (expected to be less in the future).

"just to buy new players"
reality is that 80% of the raised money has gone to pay debt.
barça has sold 5% of their current revenues, that number will be lower in the future.
the rest is an investment in the team to be able to compete and generate more income than if we were a middle table team. missing champions league has more impact in the revenue of the year that the money we "lose" with the levers.
it is of course debatable if 45M makes sense for lewa, or 50 for raphinha (not in my mind), but reality is far from your picture.

that example makes 0 sense.
a better example is that you have a mortgage to pay and you sell 5% of the revenues from your salary for the next 10 years to pay off for the mortgage (or a big chunk of it) and spend a small part of the received money to invest in a business.

i honestly don't know where you think loans/mortgage payments come from.
Why do you keep quoting 5%?

(and try to reply without your usual tone)
 
I have no proof whatsoever obviously, just a gut feeling, but I am more or less certain there is no way FC Barcelona will cease to exist, get relegated or whatever happens in that situation no matter how dire the straits they find themselves in. Anywhere else maybe, but in Spain? Ain't gonna happen unfair as that might seem.

If push comes to shove there'll be a 2008 style bailout and that might be the reason IMO for this behavior that does seem somewhat reckless. A case of "if it works great, and if it doesn't we're too big to fail anyway".
 
What I don't get is why Bayern and Chelsea hate us. I mean last time we trashed Bayern was in 2015 and they have humillated us three times in the last 2 years, why do they still hate us?

I don't think there is any hate. It's just the way the Lewandowski transfer was handled from Barca, Lewandowski and his Zahavi. Laporta publicly lauding Lewandowski for his shenanigans and antics didn't make you many friends here.
Lewandowski claiming Bayern didn't respect him and the behavior of the club broke something in him, looks just like a farce considering how Barcelona treats club legends like Piqué or is trying to force FdJ to wave on his deferred payments.

If anything, they should be glad Pep went there and taught them how to play modern football

May I remind you we won the treble in 2013 beating you home (4:0) and away (3:0) before Pep.
Pep played nice football bit trophy wise his time wasn't anything special.
Flick actually delivered what he couldn't.
 
Having just read the BBC article about Barcelona and their spending this summer, laporta is just as reckless as his predecessors. Selling 25% of Barcelona tv revenue for next 25 years for a paltry €500mil. Is a very bad deal for the club.

Sellimg 49.9% of their merchandising operation will be just as bad.

Reckless stupid short sighted deals.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62258788

Will Barcelona president Joan Laporta's summer spending gamble pay off?
 
The 25% of la liga tv revenue they've sold makes up 5% of their total revenue.
Their TV revenue was 282m, out of a total of 631m.

25% of their TV revenue is about 70m.. about 11% of total revenue? or is “TV revenue” not the same as “la liga revenue”?

(Interesting their operating costs in the 2020/21 accounts were 1,136m, or 180% of their operating income, but as they say, “it was down to Covid”. But those operating costs were more than their total operating income ever as far as I can see)
 
A lot of Barca hate and very little actual information in this forum. I mean I get it. We deprived United of two Champions Leagues. It makes sense in their side. What I don't get is why Bayern and Chelsea hate us. I mean last time we trashed Bayern was in 2015 and they have humillated us three times in the last 2 years, why do they still hate us?
If anything, they should be glad Pep went there and taught them how to play modern football.
Barca and Real Madrid are some of the very few clubs not backed by millionaires. Some of the very few clubs that do live entirely of the money they generate. This is how all clubs should have remained. If we and even Real Madrid have so much debt is because we were forced to compete for players with teams bloated with non-football money like Chelsea themselves.
Shame he didn’t teach the then CL holders how to play CL winning football
 
yes, why not?
they can sell their part for a valuation 4-5 what they paid 2 decades ago.
they have also being receiving dividends derived from their ownership.

Where do you get this information from? Bayern isn't a public listed company. So they only can sell their shares back to the club or they need the approval of Bayern to sell them to a 3rd party.
 
i honestly dont get why you said that you didnt lose any control. if you sell shares, you lose voting rights (and dividends, etc.).
and those are shares that you cannot sell in the future. following the same approach, you are a " 3 stadiums distance" from losing full ownership of the club.

Bayern still has 3/4 majority and none of the 3 shareholders do have a blocking minority. So I don't see any loss of control here.
 
I got triggered by him saying Barcelona is a shithole since I love the City. But I agree I shouldn't have said what I said. I was just angry.

I've heard many times that the people from Barcelona are impolite with foreigners but that's not quite true. The problem is mostly the kind of tourists that usually visit the city. A lot of young guys who want to party like there is no tomorrow. The locals do dislike that kind of people. On the other hand, many times I just walked into a small store bought a beer and talked to the clerk and everything was just fine. They asked me where I was from, mentioned they like this or that Mexican song, etc. Pretty friendly people but It depends a lot on your behavior because they are more serious and less tolerant to stupid behaviors than, for example, people from Sevilla.

Probably it makes a hell of a difference that you speak native Spanish while the vast majority of English and German tourists don't speak much Spanish.
 
Now I read something about them wanting to get Iñigo Martinez ffs! I mean I think that would be a good signing for them, even if it came this late, but this is getting a bit ridiculous. :lol:
 
Barça can do the same and sell 25% of itself at a valuation of 5bn. enough to pay all the debts and a big chunck of the "new" stadium (it is a big big renovation of multiple sports stadium plus the area itself).

I don't know how they teach you math in Spain but in Germany and the rest of the world 25% of 5 billion make only 1,25 billion Euro. Thus it's not even enough to pay off your current debt.
 
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