Baby elephant is growing quickly in the room

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Doesn't he already have two MOTMs? :lol:

Somewhere out there, there's a RedCafe Goes Into Meltdown thread and they're having a great time at this site's expense
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He was bobbins. Delaying on the ball, getting dispossessed, missed two REALLY good chances (didn't get either on target) can't think of a single decent pass other than that flick to Ibra and generally didn't impose himself. A similar performance from Fellaini would get dog's abuse.
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That's just rubbish. He set up a golden chance, hit the crossbar and drove us forward multiple times, all the while having 2-3 Stoke players glued to him. He will play better for us but he was fine today.
 
11101 said:
That's just rubbish. He set up a golden chance, hit the crossbar and drove us forward multiple times, all the while having 2-3 Stoke players glued to him. He will play better for us but he was fine today.
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Jesus. You're listing the header off the bar as a positive? A free header from 3 yards out. Should have buried it. Not even hitting the target was poor.

Worth noting that the best two moments you can think of came almost 90 minutes apart.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Jesus. You're listing the header off the bar as a positive? A free header from 3 yards out. Should have buried it. Not even hitting the target was poor.

Worth noting that the best two moments you can think of came almost 90 minutes apart.
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He's a midfielder. You seem to think we've signed a striker who will give you a highlights reel.
 
Honestly, I think he's been class this season and looks better than any other of our non-defenders. It just the way he moves and shifts the ball, the most talent we've had since Ronaldo.
 
I only read the original post and soon got bored. So many reasons this is a B.S. post I don't know where to start.

He was good again today, not perfect, not the in form superstar player he has the potential to be, but a good solid performance, all over the park, generally well composed, etc, etc.
 
11101 said:
He's a midfielder. You seem to think we've signed a striker who will give you a highlights reel.
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Midfielder, eh? Can you name ONE pass that was good enough to be memorable between the 2nd and 92nd minute? Failing that, how about a great tackle? Or a great run? Great interception? Anything? I mean, what do you expect from a midfielder?

I thought he was ok mid-week. Not great but a few nice passes. He was fecking pants today, though.
 
He missed a few chances. It happens. He's easily our best midfielder and hasn't got going yet. What do you propose? Sell him and replace with whom? This place sometimes :wenger:
 
I'm exceptionally concerned about Pogba. And yes, the main reason is that we spent almost 90m pounds on him. If he was a 30m player, we can give him a few months to settle, even a season. But at that price, you need results. And unfortunately, he's being outshone by players that are being paid less than 50% of his wages. Thought Bailly and Martial were great today. Hererra, too. We're going to rely upon them even more with Pogba in this form.
 
sammsky1 said:
£90m+ should buy you instant world class impact. Especially if that new incoming player has virtually zero new club, country or league adjustments to go through. In that context, we should call a spade a spade: Paul Pogba's start to his 2nd Manchester United career has been way under expectations.

He has struggled to find his role in the team, has been suspect to plenty off midfield indiscipline and his scoring attempts are fanciful. In general he has made very little impact.

People will make excuses and accommodations but a player of this supposed value should be superior to that, they should be able to shape the environment around not and not expect it to be shaped for them.

Im not saying Pogba will be a flop, far from it and am willing to give him a lot more time. But his poor start should be noted and its concerning.
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Tbf he is having to do the job of a dm a cm and a acm, he needs some talent around him. His te mates are either young and learning or simply not good enough
 
This seems to be all about whether you criticise him harshly for missing chances or you take the 'it happens' approach.

It is begiinning to look like he needs to improve his finishing, let's hope he does.
 
Was alright today, nothing more or less. When we talk about a 90m player it's impossible not to descend into hyperbole on either side of the spectrum. The poster a little above me displays that (unknowingly) perfectly
 
If people are honest he was never worth £90m and we ridiculously over-paid. That doesn't necessarily mean he'll turn out to be a bad signing but if people are always going to compare him to his fee he's always going to look bad.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He was bobbins. Delaying on the ball, getting dispossessed, missed two REALLY good chances (didn't get either on target) can't think of a single decent pass other than that flick to Ibra and generally didn't impose himself. A similar performance from Fellaini would get dog's abuse.
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I think Pogue's comment on Pogba are fair. You can't say that was a good performance. Yes those of us who are confident he will come good can see positives in that performance as shite as it was, but to those who have doubts over him.. you can't blame them for reacting very negatively to his performance.

All I will say is that lets just see how he does in a three man midfield as the furthest forward against a top team and lets see how out of his depth he looks then. If you signed Messi for £200m and then played him at LW.. you'd still get performance issues.
 
Ramshock said:
Inches away from a hat trick today and now he is an elephant in the room..fecking beezer
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the elephant is we paid £90m for a guys who seems always 'inches away' or 'unlucky' from making his supposed impact.

As I said in my OP, I'm still very optimistic that he will reach the levels Mourinho thought worthy of a world record transfer fee. But his start to the season has been underwhelming no matter the numerous excuses.
 
NinjaFletch said:
If people are honest he was never worth £90m and we ridiculously over-paid. That doesn't necessarily mean he'll turn out to be a bad signing but if people are always going to compare him to his fee he's always going to look bad.
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OK, lets say we just compare him to a mere £60m player, imo, he has still not made the impact required of such a player.
 
sammsky1 said:
the elephant is we paid £90m for a guys who seems always 'inches away' or 'unlucky' from making his supposed impact.

As I said in my OP, I'm still very optimistic that he will reach the levels Mourinho thought worthy of a world record transfer fee. But his start to the season has been underwhelming no matter the numerous excuses.
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Always or just the 6/7 games you have seen him play?
He's still under pressure from the price tag, it may even be another 4/5 games before he fulky settles in
 
sammsky1 said:
the elephant is we paid £90m for a guys who seems always 'inches away' or 'unlucky' from making his supposed impact.

As I said in my OP, I'm still very optimistic that he will reach the levels Mourinho thought worthy of a world record transfer fee. But his start to the season has been underwhelming no matter the numerous excuses.
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In 05/06 Ronaldo hit the post or shaved it wide god knows how many times. I remember saying to my Dad that if he scored half of those he'd be in the 40's. sure enough next season it clicked for him and his luck changed.

Don't be surprised if the same happens for Pogba. I think he'll be scoring 15-20 goals a season when he establishes himself.
 
Perhaps...just perhaps he isn't as great as people make out or think he is? Talented yes...but then so are many many others players who are talented who work well within the team...but world class? Which his fee suggests?...nah....he's finding the pace, relentlessness and pressing of the player on the ball and huge challenge and has come back down to earth with a bump. I think its going to take him a season to adjust and I bet Jose is thinking that to!
 
togg said:
Perhaps...just perhaps he isn't as great as people make out or think he is? Talented yes...but then so are many many others players who are talented who work well within the team...but world class? Which his fee suggests?...nah....he's finding the pace, relentlessness and pressing of the player on the ball and huge challenge and has come back down to earth with a bump. I think its going to take him a season to adjust and I bet Jose is thinking that to!
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thats my fear !
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He was bobbins. Delaying on the ball, getting dispossessed, missed two REALLY good chances (didn't get either on target) can't think of a single decent pass other than that flick to Ibra and generally didn't impose himself. A similar performance from Fellaini would get dog's abuse.
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yes ... exactly my point!
 
VanGaalyTime said:
I'm exceptionally concerned about Pogba. And yes, the main reason is that we spent almost 90m pounds on him. If he was a 30m player, we can give him a few months to settle, even a season. But at that price, you need results. And unfortunately, he's being outshone by players that are being paid less than 50% of his wages. Thought Bailly and Martial were great today. Hererra, too. We're going to rely upon them even more with Pogba in this form.
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Why?
 
sammsky1 said:
the elephant is we paid £90m for a guys who seems always 'inches away' or 'unlucky' from making his supposed impact.

As I said in my OP, I'm still very optimistic that he will reach the levels Mourinho thought worthy of a world record transfer fee. But his start to the season has been underwhelming no matter the numerous excuses.
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he is 23 just, is the money his fault or the clubs fault? Its the market.
 
What you have to ask yourself is this. Is our first 11 better with or without Paul Pogba?

Think I know the answer.

Close thread.
 
cyberman said:
Always or just the 6/7 games you have seen him play?
He's still under pressure from the price tag, it may even be another 4/5 games before he fulky settles in
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all the games Ive seen from him this season. He has basically had one and a half good games.

But he's failed to win or dominate any games and his supporters are using 'luck' and 'nearly' as excuses. That worries me.
 
He was rubbish today. I think by and large some people have gone OTT in saying he was poor in certain games, but today I think it's justified. I'm not worried, though. He's not the ready made product yet, and anyone who watched him at Juve would know he goes missing for prolonged periods of a match so it isn't surprising in the slightest.

Writing him off, or even questioning the transfer itself, this early into his United career, is a tad irrational. We haven't even got a starting XI that understands the teams structure and work well together under Mourinho yet. Despite what some think, it is a team game and we need José to figure out what's best for the team ASAP.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He was bobbins. Delaying on the ball, getting dispossessed, missed two REALLY good chances (didn't get either on target) can't think of a single decent pass other than that flick to Ibra and generally didn't impose himself. A similar performance from Fellaini would get dog's abuse.
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He didn't have a great game but he was 6.5/10.

 
sammsky1 said:
because we have finite amount of funds and have spunked most of what we have in past 3 summers.

I'm not sure why you don't get this?
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I get that. That wasn't what he was saying or what I was asking about. He was talking about the need for an immediate impact because he cost more money. I'm curious why being more expensive should make players immune to the challenges that all new players face.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He was bobbins. Delaying on the ball, getting dispossessed, missed two REALLY good chances (didn't get either on target) can't think of a single decent pass other than that flick to Ibra and generally didn't impose himself. A similar performance from Fellaini would get dog's abuse.
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Honestly, Im surprised my post has gotten so many shocked or aghast reactions. If Pogba had joined Chelsea or City for £90m and has started the season like this, United fans would be been saying 'what a rip off'.

The header was quite basic technique an d he messed it all up. Rooney, Fellaini or Mata would have been pilloried for such a miss. And I genuinely can't remember a passage off play this season when Ive thought 'OMG, he really is one of the very best talents in the game'. Ive seen that from Ibra & Rashford but not from Pogba,
 
Frankly I thought he was good. Whenever he has the ball I have this assurance that he will almost always keep the ball.

The only annoying thing is him trying a long ranger every time he gets a chance.
 
sammsky1 said:
all the games Ive seen from him this season. He has basically had one and a half good games.

But he's failed to win or dominate any games and his supporters are using 'luck' and 'nearly' as excuses. That worries me.
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You shouldn't expect him to do things he hasn't so far in his career.
 
Brwned said:
I get that. That wasn't what he was saying or what I was asking about. He was talking about the need for an immediate impact because he cost more money. I'm curious why being more expensive should make players immune to the challenges that all new players face.
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The likes of Suarez, Bale and Ronaldo hit the ground running when they moved for similar fee's. Thats the benchmark. Else who did we pay that price?
 
sammsky1 said:
The likes of Suarez, Bale and Ronaldo hit the ground running when they moved for similar fee's. Thats the benchmark. Else who did we pay that price?
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Fairly sure neither Bale nor Suarez were taking La Liga by storm at the equivalent point in their careers.

I don't have any problem with people asking for patience while he settles into a new team. What bothers me is the widespread insistence on blaming other people for his poor displays and a nagging doubt about whether he's a bit of a flat track bully. Looks good when everything is going our way but disappears when it's not.
 
Pexbo said:
In 05/06 Ronaldo hit the post or shaved it wide god knows how many times. I remember saying to my Dad that if he scored half of those he'd be in the 40's. sure enough next season it clicked for him and his luck changed.

Don't be surprised if the same happens for Pogba. I think he'll be scoring 15-20 goals a season when he establishes himself.
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Suarez was the same in his first season at Liverpool.
 
sammsky1 said:
The likes of Suarez, Bale and Ronaldo hit the ground running when they moved for similar fee's. Thats the benchmark. Else who did we pay that price?
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They are attackers, they are judged on goals/assists.

Pogba is playing as part of midfield 2, he is going to have less time infront of goal. If you judge him on his all round play, he has been very good so far.

It is UNFAIR to judge him on goals/assists so far because that is only a small part of his job.
 
sammsky1 said:
The likes of Suarez, Bale and Ronaldo hit the ground running when they moved for similar fee's. Thats the benchmark. Else who did we pay that price?
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Bale had scored once and assisted none by Halloween, 7 games in. He looked like a complete outsider for much of the season too - technically limited, very poor understanding with his team-mates and lacking a clear role that benefited everyone.

By Christmas time Suarez had scored just 3 goals, and his 1st goal in La Liga was on December 20th. No goals in his first 7 La Liga games.

There are mitigating factors for both of those, though. Suárez started the season late because of his biting ban, and Bale was only fully introduced to the starting lineup by late October. The reality is neither did hit the ground running. Bale was actually protected in the beginning.

The major difference here is that they weren't the most important player in the team, they weren't even in the top 3...they could be on the periphery and their team would still win. Pogba isn't being afforded that luxury. He's been thrust in at the deep end and expected to be a superstar within minutes. I don't understand why you don't see that as unrealistic and silly.
 
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