He has a weakness aerially and they targetted it.
Against Psg that wasnt a threat.
Against Psg that wasnt a threat.
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Awful like his teammates and manager.
I doubt some two bob Turkish team had knowledge of Axel Tuanzebe' weakness in the air.
I doubt anyone does as he has barely ever played.
Probably because that would mean Maguire would have to take some responsibility for once.
Just needs more experience, did get caught a little when he got booked, but if he is marking the ONLY striker, then where is his CB partner covering?
It is unusual for all of the back four to go up for a corner, but generally, both CB's do go up, and normally one full back and a CM will stay back, but the CM was caught napping, unforgivable for a player of Matic's experience, same with Mata, took the wrong option.
Playing in an ultra defensive back 5 with a competent defender in Lindelöf isn't quite the same as playing in a normal back 4 with Maguire.
The CB who plays with Maguire is always last man. A lot of people have been saying if we just play speedy Tuanzebe, we can keep a high line. It’s not that simple. It’s good if that player is speedy but important he can read the game.
Totally agree. Axel completely failed to protect the high line which was his job. Maguire will always be furthest up the pitch, especially on corners.
Ole took him off because he was lost and in a yellow for a last man foul. Its a learning process though. It was a big lesson for him today.
Yep, absolutely. But he needs to play to get the experience, and tonight he was up against a tough uncompromising, very experienced player. I thought he coped well, just got caught a bit with the ball over the top, but these things he will pick up the more he plays. His passing was crisp and accurate, and cleared the ball well when required.
He is no where near the finished article, but he will be no better next season unless we play him, I think Mengi will be the same, think both Tuanzebe and Mengi could have a higher ceiling than both Lindelof and Maguire.
Yes it was a lesson. And I think don’t think it was very smart tactically to play that high line with a new CB formation, where the “new” player is expected to protect the line. Or maybe it wasn’t tactics, maybe it was just the two CBs’ style of playing that gave us the high unprotected line.
No he wasn't. He looked what he is, a young player up against a very physical, vastly experienced player, and played reasonably well, just a couple of moments that he will learn from.
They won't have known he was weak in the air, I doubt 99% of United fans knew. He was shit yes.
It was a completely past it Demba Ba and Axel couldn’t deal with him. Let’s not defend him.
If Lindelof had performed like that this place would of went into meltdown.
I really like Axel but he has to break through and establish himself this season otherwise we’ll buy another CB.
You don’t think Champions League sides have scouts? Come off it.
Why not. I stand by what I said, and Ba gave Maguire some tough moments as well. Don't think Lindelof would have caught him in that one on one, and where was his CB partner when he was left one on one. The whole team were much too cocky and complacent for my liking.
Not on Axel no.
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Against PSG a world class example. But last night shocking positionally and inexcusable.
Maybe they just checked Whoscored stats and saw Axel only won 20% and lost 80% aerials last season...
I don’t think they had researched their way to that strategy. But he lost his first header on already after 1:30 and then they realised that would be their way.
A bit strange Axel joined for corners when he would be 1. Good for speedy cover and 2.is weak in the air. Instead Matic was covering who is 1. very slow and 2. Pretty good in the air
We have had Shaw as last man a few times because Lindelof always joins for corners, but Shaw has failed to defend and we have conceded goals from counters to our corners. Personally I can’t think of any better than AWB as last man when we have corners, maybe together with Axel.
Wonder if he would have lasted the whole game if he wasnt on a yellow.
So what does that substitution mean, his United career is over?
Couldn't be two more night and day performances. Was strange, not sure how you can have such a swing within a couple of weeks.
He's still young, half you lot had him as world class after a good showing vs Paris and are happy to bin him now, there is a middle ground.
He's got talent and has a lot of strengths, speed, strength, ball playing ability, he needs to up his concentration and improve his ability in the air, at the moment a back 3 may be the way to go, it's just a question of who provides the width on the right.
He's got talent and has a lot of strengths, speed, strength, ball playing ability, he needs to up his concentration and improve his ability in the air, at the moment a back 3 may be the way to go, it's just a question of who provides the width on the right.
IMO from what i have seen of him in the under 23s and his time on loan at Villa playing in the Championship he'd make a solid squad player. He's potentally better than Lindelof but not much better than that
providing he stays fit of course
He's definitely not going to be world class as what all of twitter have you make believe
after one solid performance
providing he stays fit of course
He's definitely not going to be world class as what all of twitter have you make believe
after one solid performanceIt’s not strange that a relatively young and unexperienced player can have a large variation in performance between two matches.
But it was also two very different matches for him.
PSG was world class attackers but his role was clear, small and simple in a tight and well organised defence. Istanbul BB is not the same level of attack, but his role/task was not as clear and “easy”, as it needed him to take more responsibility. He needed to make more decisions. It demanded more from him when it came to positioning, when to push, when to cover. When to assist AWB and when to cover the centre. I don’t mean that defending against Neymar and Mbappe is easy, but the task was easy to understand.
Then PSG prefer playing fast on the ground which suits not just Tuanzebe, but also AWB, Shaw and Lindelof. We are very good at defending this type of football.
I'm not suggesting he won't be inconsistent, I'm just not sure how one week you can be keeping up with Mbappe and then next struggling to get the right side of Demba Ba.
Even his first touch was off, just was a seriously bad day at the office, he'll have to learn very quickly from that game as we can't currently count on him if he's going to turn out performances like that.
It feels like your implying the Istanbul game was harder for him if he is in a back 4 than PSG in a back 3/5, which I would dispute. His role doesn't change so much that he should shit the bed and there may be more space, but there were ample similar decisions to make in both games and the outcomes were vastly different.
That’s the thing, we can’t trust him yet, and it’s not fair to him if we expect him to play solidly on a high level. He is not so experienced and deserves to have his ups and downs.
I think PSG was much easier for him because he could play to his strengths. He did not need to worry about his positioning, just to stay in a much smaller zone. He did not need to defend a high line as last man. There were no aerials.
You’re spot on with your mention of a smaller zone.
Against PSG when we’ve got 7 players defending the majority of the time it is compact and much easier. Your covering say 10 yards of space. In little spaces even with poor positioning you’ll only be a yard or two out. And then youve got teammates within 5-10 yards always to cover as well. It’s why we’ve seen so many defenders look solid at the likes of Burnley and then go up the table and be exposed as it’s a way more open system.
You look at Axel’s “zone” last night and youre looking at 40-50 yards of space as it’s so open at the back. Suddenly, precise positioning is far more important. It’s very easy to be dragged 10-20 yards out of position when you’re dealing with that space. 2 yards out of position is manageable, 20 yards? No chance. That’s not going to happen in the system again PSG.
PSG were also complete trash aerially was you say so nothing to worry about there. Sure they made us look threatening on corners.
My point was I think we should be able to trust him against the worst team in our group, poorer players have faired better. Don't get me wrong, by no means am I writing him off and will accept ups and downs, but I just thought the difference was worryingly extreme.
Maybe, but he was caught isolated 1v1 with Mbappe a few times (On occasion quite high up the pitch), so I didn't see it like that. That's just my opinion though
.Might be being naive but PSG showed the played Axel can become, last night let us all know he is still young and inconsistent. That's my take on the situation and believe he will spend his career at premier League level, United or not.
We're a bunch of clueless cnuts who love Utd but know feck all about football. Don't let the fancy posts talking about tactics in detail fool you. You're comparing a caftard to a professional club.
Yes, he had a huge space to defend and it takes experience and skills to do that. Many believe being fast is enough to be the perfect covering CB in a high line, but that’s worth very little of you don’t have the other basics like positioning, awareness, team work, communication, decision making, etc.
Of course we should expect him to do better, no doubt. He had a poor game. But the task was too difficult for him imo. Lindelof is 3 years older and has much more experience, and we saw last season also he had difficulties covering behind himself, AWB and Maguire. I think we should ease Axel in. This was a good game for him to play, but not with that much responsibility.My point was I think we should be able to trust him against the worst team in our group, poorer players have faired better. Don't get me wrong, by no means am I writing him off and will accept ups and downs, but I just thought the difference was worryingly extreme.
Maybe, but he was caught isolated 1v1 with Mbappe a few times (On occasion quite high up the pitch), so I didn't see it like that. That's just my opinion though
However one question that I still have in my head is; was it tactics that Axel stayed so high up, or is it his style of playing, which means this is just how it turned out, nothing planned.
Maybe Lindelof organises the defence a lot better than Maguire?
I actually think they might have targeted that side. The intention however was likely to target Lindelof who happens to also be poor in the air.
It’s the difference between playing in 5 man deep defence and playing in a 4 man high line. The proliferation of high line tactics is principally why people think there are no decent centre backs anymore.
Massive overreactions in here, we were poor all round as was Maguire. A lot of it was tactical too
We're a bunch of clueless cnuts who love Utd but know feck all about football. Don't let the fancy posts talking about tactics in detail fool you. You're comparing a caftard to a professional club.
They will not have known nor targetted him. Not a chance.
This
People have talked him up too much I think when not playing. He look like he did last year yesterday. Like a liability.
He played well vs PSG though so maybe in a back 5 he can do better.
Not playing much could be a reason too, but it is the same thing that can be said about all our bench defenders.
Lindelöf is way better than him though. No debate.
He played well vs PSG though so maybe in a back 5 he can do better.
Not playing much could be a reason too, but it is the same thing that can be said about all our bench defenders.
Lindelöf is way better than him though. No debate.
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