Awaiting Chelsea’s fire sale: who goes where?
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
Money. Unless you’ve got deeper pockets then you let on, you’ll likely fall away. Unfortunately that’s the way of things.
The irony is both our clubs best players cost nothing.
Plus, id rather a smart signing for 30m than a panicky 80m signing.
There are others ways to getting to the top and staying their without winning the cheque book race. Granted you still need money, which we have. White and Jesus were both roughly 50m each. Plus we bid 70m for Caicedo. We will likely get a midfielder in for 60m in the summer.
An organized club with a cohesive strategy can make 100m go further than a scattergun approach of 200m.
Manager is important too. And in Arteta, I think we have a diamond.
Sterling to Newcastle nailed on imo
We should really go after Kovacic. He’s quality, and won’t cost an arm and a leg either. So press resistant and great progressing the ball up the pitch.
I've heard a lot of things about Kova. That he cant pass I've never, ever heard.
I really hope you aren't being racist
I’m not going to claim that opinions are better than evidence, or that one club’s supporter has an authoritative view on their own players, but…
Obviously you have a different take to them. And the data seems at odds with their description. I’d suggest what you’re describing, what the data’s describing and what he’s describing aren’t in direct contradiction, they’re just describing different aspects of related things.
I really like stats in general and I’m all good if you think my opinion is ridiculous on that basis alone. I personally don’t believe there are very good stats available at this point to capture passing quality in any meaningful sense, but you’re free to think I’m just a Luddite. No offence taken whatsoever. But just to confirm, as I’m sure you know, that was intentional hyperbole
@Real Name you might be surprised to know he is not the only Chelsea fan to describe his passing as “not good”.
I might be, cause passing is one of his best qualities.
Isn't he injured like most of the times?
Midfield of Casemiro-Kovačić-Bruno would work wonders.
Kovačić is valued at about 40 million euros on transfermarkt.
I’m not going to claim that opinions are better than evidence, or that one club’s supporter has an authoritative view on their own players, but…
Obviously you have a different take to them. And the data seems at odds with their description. I’d suggest what you’re describing, what the data’s describing and what he’s describing aren’t in direct contradiction, they’re just describing different aspects of related things.
I really like stats in general and I’m all good if you think my opinion is ridiculous on that basis alone. I personally don’t believe there are very good stats available at this point to capture passing quality in any meaningful sense, but you’re free to think I’m just a Luddite. No offence taken whatsoever. But just to confirm, as I’m sure you know, that was intentional hyperbole
@Real Name you might be surprised to know he is not the only Chelsea fan to describe his passing as “not good”.
I think there's some interesting work being done vis a vis AI tracking of player positioning and angles to try to gauge whether players are taking the safe option too frequently - and perhaps Kovacic would rate poorly by such a metric (though honestly I'd be skeptical).
But while I appreciate your hyperbole I just categorically disagree with anyone who would say he's even below average. He's 98th percentile in progressive passing!
They’ve got Malo Gusto. Offering big money for Reece James might tempt them if things get tight.
I hope you're right, as personally I hate the fact that money dominates football.
However, over the long term, the team that spends more performs better. Obviously there are examples like us frittering away money in stupid ways and getting nowhere, as well as instances like Leicester who won the league with comparatively little resource, but generally speaking the modern-day league is won by the chequebook race as you say. Clever signings and shrewd buys will only go so far against bottomless money-pits such as City and Newcastle. Chelsea are obviously going hard in the market right now, and we've consistently spent large sums over the last few years. If we can actually put that money to good use, then we'll also be a force (albeit we'll never match the oil clubs).
Also a big Kovacic fan... think he's one of the more underrated players in the league.
I think it’s overstated - I’ve pasted his injury record whilst at Chelsea below (from transfermarkt ).
In 4 and a half years at Chelsea he’s missed 33 games due to injury (with one of them being ‘rest’) which is just over 7 games per season, which isn’t too bad.
| Season | Injury | Days | Games missed |
|---|---|---|---|
| 22/23 | Rest | 10 days | 1 |
| 22/23 | Knee Problems | 17 days | 2 |
| 21/22 | Ankle Injury | 13 days | 4 |
| 21/22 | Corona virus | 15 days | 4 |
| 21/22 | Adductor problems | 33 days | 7 |
| 20/21 | Muscle Injury | 33 days | 9 |
| 19/20 | Calf Injury | 8 days | 2 |
| 19/20 | Achilles tendon problems | 94 days | 1 |
| 19/20 | Knee Injury | 3 days | - |
| 19/20 | Calf Injury | 11 days | - |
| 18/19 | Knock | 6 days | 1 |
| 18/19 | Knock | 1 days | - |
| 18/19 | Ankle Injury | 7 days | - |
| 18/19 | Knock | 5 days | - |
| 18/19 | Knock | 8 days | 1 |
Saying Kovacic can't pass is wild, he has an excellent passing range.
His injury record is overstated, he played around 130 EPL games since he joined Chelsea. And also, can't believe people are doubting his passing, he is a great passer and one of the best sitters in the league.
IMO people underrate him due to his influence on the game is hard to find in fancy stats like goals/assists, xG etc. Saw many things here that I disagree but seeing Chelsea fans going against Kovačić is another level of shock. Also, judging him on behalf of this season is not a good sample as they are in such a mess.
If he has at least decent shooting ability and end product he would be one of the most complete midfielders in the game. But that is not his primary job, his job is to progress the ball and he excels at it. When it comes to take-ons and dribbling ability he is certainly among the best midfielders.
A trio of ball-winner #6 (Casemiro), sitter #8 (Kovačić) and playmaker #10 (Bruno) would be the most balanced midfield in the league.
IMO people underrate him due to his influence on the game is hard to find in fancy stats like goals/assists, xG etc. Saw many things here that I disagree but seeing Chelsea fans going against Kovačić is another level of shock. Also, judging him on behalf of this season is not a good sample as they are in such a mess.
If he has at least decent shooting ability and end product he would be one of the most complete midfielders in the game. But that is not his primary job, his job is to progress the ball and he excels at it. When it comes to take-ons and dribbling ability he is certainly among the best midfielders.
A trio of ball-winner #6 (Casemiro), sitter #8 (Kovačić) and playmaker #10 (Bruno) would be the most balanced midfield in the league.
We definitely should be interested in Kovacic.
I’m curious how you’d reach to that conclusion from that post? Am I missing something?
Yeah.. lot of strange takes in here. Clearly no one actually watches him very much. He excels at passing and dribbling. You are not going to see him attempt Hollywood passes, he is difficult to get the ball off and is one of the best “press resistant” midfielders in the league. You can make a highlights reel of him escaping 3/4 opposition players. He can’t shoot to save his life bless him, even with Lampard as his manager he still didn’t improve but that’s ok. He fits perfectly in a midfield 2 or 3. I have seen that he has been made available for transfer but I do not see it being accurate. Along with James he should and likely is indispensable.
If he indeed will be for sale we sould be all over him.
After we had a first Austrian to sign for United I think it's about time we finally have a 1st Croatian too. Fingers crossed.
Yeah, Chelsea would be crazy to let him go, but lots of crazy things have been happening at your club recently so wouldn't be a surprise.
Hope Boehly will be in a - we got Enzo we dont need Kovačić - kind of mood.
That list is not appealing.
Koulibaly - Came to the PL far too late. Whether he is adjusting or simply past it, who really cares. Aging defender playing poorly.
Pulisic - Talented, crock. A loan for a year and see how much he gets on the pitch is the most I could possibly imagine doing with him and even then I don't think he is needed. I would not pay a transfer fee.
Auba - No.
That leaves Kovacic, who I like as a player that links play but I can't help but feel he flatters to deceive. He's got an aesthetic quality to his passing which looks nice but I don't think he's a big difference maker for club or country. He's been in some great sides but he's second fiddle. If Kante and Jorginho play well he's second fiddle. If Modric and Brozovic play they have far more crucial roles. He's just a nice player but he's not a world beater. He's a maybe for me, I don't find him more appealing than unearthing a gem that ETH can mould.
Koulibaly - Came to the PL far too late. Whether he is adjusting or simply past it, who really cares. Aging defender playing poorly.
Pulisic - Talented, crock. A loan for a year and see how much he gets on the pitch is the most I could possibly imagine doing with him and even then I don't think he is needed. I would not pay a transfer fee.
Auba - No.
That leaves Kovacic, who I like as a player that links play but I can't help but feel he flatters to deceive. He's got an aesthetic quality to his passing which looks nice but I don't think he's a big difference maker for club or country. He's been in some great sides but he's second fiddle. If Kante and Jorginho play well he's second fiddle. If Modric and Brozovic play they have far more crucial roles. He's just a nice player but he's not a world beater. He's a maybe for me, I don't find him more appealing than unearthing a gem that ETH can mould.
Strange take, IMO he was Croatia's best and most consistent midfielder at WC 2022, despite Modrić being awarded two MoTM awards on behalf of his reputation.
Also, Kovačić managed to win Player of the year award at Chelsea with both Jorginho and Kante in the squad with Kante unfortunately facing some injury problems that year. Overall my impression is that Kova was a more important player for Chelsea.
You must have been watching something else from me and the people giving out those awards. Fair enough, it's about opinions.
If he's so important there probably shouldn't be this notion they're willing to push him out of the door despite this retooling. He's supposed to be at his prime. There's a manager or clubs opinion and then there's just reality that clubs don't see Kovacic as indispensable and it's probably because he's got a few strings to his bow. To me he just doesn't affect games like a Kante will at his best. Or like they're hoping Enzo will.
I'd take CHO off them to be honest.
He's still 22, and he can be a good back up option.
He's still 22, and he can be a good back up option.
Only thing with having so many players, you might end up selling some on the cheap.
Hope not. Would rather another team bid £30-40 for Gallagher, yes he is home grown but he has a lot to work on. Reasonable player for mid table side providing you can adjust the tactics to cover the spaces he leaves.Yeah, Chelsea would be crazy to let him go, but lots of crazy things have been happening at your club recently so wouldn't be a surprise.
Hope Boehly will be in a - we got Enzo we dont need Kovačić - kind of mood.
Kante can leave on a free.
RLC can go £10mil~
I’d start next season with Enzo, Kova, Chukwuemeka, Santos (providing he gets a permit) Zakaria (if we can sign him).
If we sell Kovacic we would really lack experience so I just can’t see it but like you said, anything can happen.
I don't think Gallagher is worth the £30-40m I've seen quoted in the media, but I'm sure you'll get at least £40 for him.
I'd even throw in a cheeky bid, can mow the lawn come summer!
Sure we all watch a game differently, but those MoTM awards were a joke - Messi, Ronaldo and Modrić won several purely on their reputation. In both games in which Modrić won it Gvardiol was clearly best on the pitch and in a game where Kovačić was best it was given to Kramarić because he scored a brace.
If you think about his time at Madrid, there are not so many who would get into that midfield of Casemiro, Kroos and Modrić and we saw last year that Real is fair in the treatment of a player if they want to leave.
If your argument is Chelsea's board/manager's opinion now, then I can strongly stand by my words - they have been run like a circus recently. For sure I wouldn't toss a player like Kovačić for a new shiny toy Enzo.
I agree with much of what you are saying - but don't think we are binning Kovacic in order to play Enzo; they functionally are very compatible. Enzo is pretty clearly meant to be an upgrade on Jorginho.
This was what I was saying too but people didn't agree. Enzo would be the #6 and you need a runner like Kova next to him. Of course he's not as lightweight as Jorginho defensively so you could get a more aggressive #8 or whatever. Doesn't need Kante to babysit him.
At a certain point the best ability is availability! Don't think we can count on Kante in any meaningful way until he can prove he can play a month without getting injured.
I’m not going to claim that opinions are better than evidence, or that one club’s supporter has an authoritative view on their own players, but…
Obviously you have a different take to them. And the data seems at odds with their description. I’d suggest what you’re describing, what the data’s describing and what he’s describing aren’t in direct contradiction, they’re just describing different aspects of related things.
I really like stats in general and I’m all good if you think my opinion is ridiculous on that basis alone. I personally don’t believe there are very good stats available at this point to capture passing quality in any meaningful sense, but you’re free to think I’m just a Luddite. No offence taken whatsoever. But just to confirm, as I’m sure you know, that was intentional hyperbole
@Real Name you might be surprised to know he is not the only Chelsea fan to describe his passing as “not good”.
When I say outside of short/safe passes I mean through balls mainly, defence splitting, and not even necessarily complicated through balls either. I just don't think he's good at them at all. I don't know the proper definition for progressive passes but I'd assume something along the lines of passes that break the lines, bypassing opposition midfielders? Would him driving forward with the ball past a player and playing it forward also count in this regard? That could skew the data as he's very good at that.
I also thought he was Croatia's best midfielder at the WC quite comfortably but there comes a point with us where he is not contributing in terms of creativity or goals, and has become less and less reliable over the years with injuries. A bit like Mousa Dembele when he was at Spurs. Absolutely elite in one aspect, but a bit lacking in other areas where it sort of becomes a 'what if' he was slightly better in this one aspect then he'd be a truly world class player. Kova is a style of player I love but one that you just want to be able to do more, because he's so talented.
i think they'll stay. felix will be performance dependent admittedly . But there is an apparent verbal agreement to a potential summer deal. Was reported in the athletic