We’re gonna drop £100m on Rice, so wouldn’t get your hopes up about this transfer. Too sensible for us to entertain it.
Aurelien Tchouameni / Signs for Madrid
- Thread starter Adam-Utd
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I surely can understand the the intention of going for Haaland. He seems to be a great player after all. But in my eyes, we closed that door when we signed Ronaldo. And even his signing wasn't for pure "sports" reasons (at least that was my perception of the move) but more out of unwillingness to see him go to City. I am heavily against adopting transfer strategies that focus on stopping oppostional teams to strengthen. We should focus on ourselves. A striker isn't a priority now, it is midfielders, right-back and a clue how to create chances on a regular basis.
I agree that we have other issues first - but at the same time a player like Haaland may only be available every 10-15 years.
We have plenty of money, lets flex it. If he brings us leagues and CL wins it'll be worth whatever he costs.
We didn't need Van Persie too. But he wanted to join, so we bought him. Haaland will be the same if he wants to join us. And you pay for him even if we need midfielders and a RB he is that good that he can win us the Title just like RVP
Exactly! I’ve always said we that money is our only advantage at the moment. Let’s use to get what we want then afterwards we can begin to implement a sustainable policy of buying established players as well as grooming young talents. Haaland plus Tchouameni is not too much in one summer window especially when the former is availed for a fraction of his true value. We must jump on it and never allow Chelsea of City who are rumored to be all over him get a sniff.
Again, understand the notion but I don't think that is sustainable. Especially competing in a lead that has Chelsea, ManCity and potentially Newcastle in it with a totally different "business model" . Haaland doesn't strike me as a player who will stay at one club for long anyways. After all I am not against going for Haaland if we figure out how to deal with the midfield issues (plus their underlying reasons), this won't be done with a simple transfer anyway. But if we figure it out, we can afford to go for even more firepower, the question is, will we figure it out? I mean, City haven't got their striker this year... still doing just fine.
Which is why it's a bad idea to not target the generational talent, on the long run he is supposed to be cheaper because when you have him you are set for at least the length of his contract. The lesser player that bring in midfield is a big gamble, if I'm not mistaken between Van De Beek and Fred we spent close to a 100m and the position is far from set despite the fact that both players were doing well for their previous clubs.
While I see why you think it's a good idea to focus on midfield, someone like Haaland is the exception because he lengthens your window and to be honest I believe that the staff needs to pull its fingers, abandon the current 4231 and try to build a system that actually uses our current midfield talents like VDB, Mejbri and Garner.
And this isn't addressed to you but more of a general statement. The Bruno argument is in my opinion terrible because he has many qualities, there is no point pigeonholing him and I don't think that he is the type to refuse coaching when it benefits the team as a whole.
RVP was already a standout player in the PL. And while this transfer directly led to us getting the title, it also set us up quite questionable due to having Rooney and RVP with both of them losing specific qualities at the same time. Lets remember the days of Moyes when we thought why do have to play both Rooney and RVP while we need more pace and workrate there. Granted, we even increased that issue with also bringing in Falcao but that isn't the point, the point is, the transfer had a short term effect, a very good one, but it also had some negative effects. Therefor I don't think, it should be used as a template now.
Again, I totally understand the notion of going for Haaland, I am not against doing so at all. But a) I fear that this will make this squad even more top-heavy than it is right now and b) I wanted to underline the fan-tendencies of going for more and more attacking players instead of focussing on the overall balance of the team. Again - understandable but too me it feels like going all out to change the team total in attack from 89 to 92 while in midfield and defense you stay stagnant at 81 and 84.
We missed out on trophies last year because we didn't create enough chances. Another striker will not change that in my eyes and therefor it shouldn't be the highest priority.
I understand your train of thought. But I never grasped the idea of that generational talent thing and going all in when the chance is there. I am not saying that idea is wrong or something, but I never felt it to be my "way". Think back two years ago, Rashford was considered to be such a talent by quite some people, Greenwood as well, Sancho even too. We have a young team with huge potential right now, without the need to add another one. If we need a striker after Ronaldo is gone, we could look at L. Martinez who would bring something new to our attack, we could look at DCL or Donyell Malen. There is more fish in the sea than the one "generational talent" that knows that all top clubs are looking to get, most with a way greater need for a striker than Man United. What about the 2022/23 summer when Dortmund decides to sell Bellingham. Shouldn't we do everything we can to block City to finally replace David Silva with a physical and well-scoring version? You can only lose that race at the end of the day. Do you think, Klopp or Pep thinking about potential transfers in the light of blocking opponents? It is a bad idea for them and it is a bad idea for us as well.
Haaland gives me the feeling that he is first and foremost looking for himself and his career, which tells me, that there is a big chance, that he will want to play in all of the big leagues which will limit his time at every station of his journey. He would also bring Railo back to the club... I understand fans wish to see United as the world class top club who obviously should strive for getting the best of the best players but is this really the only and best way to go forward? It seems like being dragged into a race with your mates about who has the fastest car. They will talk about using the greatest tires here and the greatest spoilers there and you are going to get sucked into wanting that stuff as well while ignoring that your "check engine"-light is on since 8 months.
Our striker department is more than just fine. If we want to go for generational talents, try to get Pedri or De Jong. All the great players we have except for Varane and De Gea are known for their offensive qualities. Lets bolster the other areas before make a good department even better.
The issue being that you don't know whether these players will be available and they are all inferior players to Haaland. To me that's not sound logic, you are ignoring a superior talent that is going to be available this summer because you think that you could maybe be in a position to target inferior players that may or may not be available in the future.
I think he is a good player but I never have a super urge for this type of player - I feel like these type of all rounded players are quite easy to find.
Bissouma for example I don't think is that much different to him. Ndombele at his largest hype abroad was not that much different. I feel like PSG has/had someone like this already. Spurs at their best had someone like this.
It's not to say this player won't be good - but it's more than I am interested in a player like Caqueret who seems to play more like a specialist ie like a passer; than an all rounded midfielder. He seems to have a very unique strength maybe just as much as a weakness than an all rounded be everywhere type of midfielder.
I say that because I do not think that these all rounded midfielders are hard to find - or that they will necessarily run out as such. We need to be more quick and be on the ball to finding the next best deep lying playmaker or anchorman than the midfielder that can do a bit if everything.
I know some think he is already this next best anchorman but I don't think so - I think he is a young and well rounded CM.
Bissouma for example I don't think is that much different to him. Ndombele at his largest hype abroad was not that much different. I feel like PSG has/had someone like this already. Spurs at their best had someone like this.
It's not to say this player won't be good - but it's more than I am interested in a player like Caqueret who seems to play more like a specialist ie like a passer; than an all rounded midfielder. He seems to have a very unique strength maybe just as much as a weakness than an all rounded be everywhere type of midfielder.
I say that because I do not think that these all rounded midfielders are hard to find - or that they will necessarily run out as such. We need to be more quick and be on the ball to finding the next best deep lying playmaker or anchorman than the midfielder that can do a bit if everything.
I know some think he is already this next best anchorman but I don't think so - I think he is a young and well rounded CM.
But that isn't the point I am making. I am not ignoring the superior talent but I intentionally don't go for it because
a) I see the gains as too limited for the outlay,
b) I see the opportunity costs of not going for top drawer midfield talents as really high and
c) I think, players who might be inferior to Haaland might have better use because they can provide something different player type wise - if you want a high caliber poacher with great heading and physique, go for DCL. If you want an agile hardworking dribbler, go for Martinez.
Obviously I don't want us to bring in DCL or Martinez for more than what we would have to pay for Haaland but, as I said, I wouldn't go for a striker this year at all. Bayern is looking for a top striker to replace Lewandowski, Real is looking for a marquee signing especially for the striker position. City is in the mix - Liverpool as well. Why would we want to waste time going for a player where the chance of signing him are so limited? Especially when we have so obvious issues somewhere else where we could do with heavy heavy investment (given that there are no indicators of us trying to solve our issues different than with new players...)
Don't focus on one little detail of the argument, the players I mentioned where just pulled out of thin air to balance the point.
But who says that you can't go for top drawer midfield talents during the length of Haaland's contract? And it's questionable whether the likes of DCL and Martinez will be considerably cheaper than Haaland.
Can some one tell me why we didnt sing this guy or someone in Bissouma mould?
DM signing could have improved our play more than anyone else
DM signing could have improved our play more than anyone else
1st sentence: Because we need top drawer midfield talents right now. That is the point. Do we have 70 mio plus big big wages lying around without effecting our budget for midfield and squad improvements?
2nd sentence: Granted. I am not advocating to go for these specific players. As I said, the outlay should be connected with the need for the player.
Is there a top drawer midfield talent available right now? Because I get your point but we are in the Tchouaméni thread not in the thread of a guaranteed player and I don't see which player fit that bill and is available in June 2022.
Bear in mind that my point applies to all positions where we have uncertainty, if you have the opportunity to sign a top drawer, someone that is better than what you have and also provides you a longer window then you have to do it or at least seriously consider it. This summer it seems that this player is Haaland, maybe next summer it will be De Jong, Barella or anyone.
If it was me, next summer I would try to get Caqueret and Haaland, or someone equivalent to Caqueret in terms of status.
he’s the one
Impressive stats. I am still ambivalent if he is the right guy for us, it really really depends on how we want to go further in terms of what do we expect our midfielders to do.
Based on fbref player scouting records, I created this. Might be interesting
Based on fbref player scouting records, I created this. Might be interesting
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Monaco lost 2-0 to Brest today.
How was he today?
Anyone watch the match?
How was he today?
Anyone watch the match?
Bit easy to get past him again for my liking.
Not really sure where he was properly at fault here? 12 would be the one I point at in that goal.
I see it quite alot - he gets talked about as a CDM when he doesn't really play as a CDM. The ball goes too past him for that.
He is more further up the pitch and a normal central midfielder.
He is not deep enough to be regarded as a player who is bought say as a replacement for Matic or to even play like Fabinho.
Ahh I see, yeah I agree on that he's certainly not like Matic or Fabinho.
Think that conclusion is a little harsh looking at how young the guy is. Whether he is bought should be based on his skillset and traits, not where his manager uses him or what he wants him to do right now. Sometimes, these things don't overlap as much as you'd think.
If you look at my post above (hurray I managed to enter the picture), you can see Tchouameni is elite level in terms of tackles and interceptions and aerials. That would already be a good start for us. Passing wise it is a bit dire still but he is also still young. I also thought it would have been established in the thread here, that currently he looks like a defensively-charged-up version of Fred.
Ship out Pogba
Get Tchouameni and Kessie in January
Get Tchouameni and Kessie in January
Would love both of these players and to see Pogba gone.
But we would still be missing a actual CDM.
I see both of the players as more of box to box players.
i'd rather have two quality box to box guys than Pogba who doesn't run at all and a CDM who can't pass gas
lots of paper talk that United will be in Monaco tomorrow scouting Tchouameni
How was he vs PSV?
Anyone watch the match?
Anyone watch the match?
Did the simple stuff well in a boring game that finished goalless. It was job done for Monaco, who are top of a group containing Real Sociedad and PSV who are both decent teams. Tchouameni has the attributes to become a DM, but in his current club he's probably best utilised in a box to box role imo.
I think we all know you can't see passed anything Rice related when it comes to midfield, but they'd actually make a perfect pairing in a 4-2-3-1 if we stick to that formation.
Fernandes can still be the most advanced, allowing Tchouameni to roam the pitch in a B2B role and Rice to sweep up.
Realistically though we aren't buying Rice anytime soon due to his transfer fee, so we will have to look elsewhere for a similar style of player.
I don't want to see a Rice - Tchouameni paring personally, it would be too defensive for my liking.
As long as they can retain possession well and feed the forwards regularly that's all you can ask.
The issue with our current midfield is they can't keep the ball under pressure well enough to get consistent supply. Games become too much of a coin flip.
The Atlanta game was a perfect example of this really. First 15 minutes we were combative enough, but once they settled they kept the ball much better and then pressed us high after attacks.
This is the key area we need to improve. Counter attacking quickly isn't always the answer as soon as you win the ball. Sometimes you have to take the sting out of the opponent and keep some sustained pressure yourself.
It's no coincidence we scored both our goals in those moments where Atlanta were pinned back and trying to hold a lead into HT/FT.
Quick counter attacks can work in certain moments but it requires every pass + run to be perfect, which we often don't manage.
That's the thing, both players are more combative in nature, so their ball retention skills/passing won't ever be on the level of a play-making #8. I personally hope we go for Tchouameni, due to him likely being cheaper and pair him up with a midfielder with a more expansive game. Someone who can link both defence and attack at a high level.
I'm personally hoping we work towards a midfield 3 in the mid to long-term, with a potential midfield 3 of Tchouameni -Frenkie de Jong and Hannibal in a 3. And if de Jong isn't possible, then someone.like Jude Bellingham/ Maxence Caqueret could be a possibility.
But to do that we'll need a head coach with a plan on how to to execute a proactive approach to playing the game.
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We won't be spending £150-180m on midfielders in one window. Rice would cost an absolute fortune and I feel as though his appetite for the move here wouldn't be big enough to force their hand at the moment.
Only seeing this now, but I was at the game and kept a specific eye out for him from a United perspective and in that game at least he didn't stand out to me the same a Camavinga did when I saw him play live. Monaco were poor all game though and looked well off the the pace. That was Brest first win of the season too, and playing a 4-4-2 formation so the midfield should have not have been crowded or anything.
Linked with Chelsea in the Italian press today. Don’t think it’s the first time either. Would hate to miss out to them if he’s as good as I’ve been hearing.
Would be a brave move from him to go to Chelsea with kante jorghino and kovacic there... plus home grown players in rlc Gilmour and Gallagher
There are probabky teams that would be a better fit I think
Naa, think he will do better. Chelsea isn't a great fit for him now.
2-2 draw vs Lille.
How was he in that game?
How was he in that game?
Defensively he was solid and showed good positioning throughout, including some great breaking up of moves in the first half, but he was poor in the transition to the offense.
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