Auction Draft QF3 : VivaCrappy vs Annahnomoss

Who will win based on all the players at their peak?

  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .
antohan said:
He still needs more firepower against that defensive trio,
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This is pure garbage mate.

May be you just don't rate Van Basten but is plentiful for his 3 defenders, one of which is Sammer who has been asked to cover for his wing backs.. We also left our two wingers up field to run at his defense. Boniek is well capable of joining in the middle if Conti is the one with the ball.

If we discount Riquelme completely like people want to for whatever reason -
Worst case on a counter it will be - 3CBs + Deschamps + one wing back against the trio
Best case it would be 3 CBs against the trio

Seemingly Diego would find a pass between Lothar and Matthaus for Klinsmann being guarded by two CBs but 3 v 3 or 3 v 4 or 3 v 5 is not enough fire power!

Not to mention Riquelme won't actually be a passenger, he would at least account for Deschamps when we are attacking to take a player away from others
 
Annahnomoss said:
He reminds me so much of RVP the way he has those Fifa 1997 angles where you always score per default if you shoot there. He deserves all the credit he can get, but like Klinsmann who isn't primarily a dribbling striker either they rarely get that draft credit.

He is incredibly dangerous when he carries the ball from deep and unleashes that shot.
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There is simply no comparison between the two. It's like comparing Riquelme to Diego. That's not an insult to the German but MVB is in a different league.
 
FIFA comparison was a good one though. And to think his career ended do early!

I don't think you could find a better collection of goals- volleys, bicycle kicks, headers, dribbling goals, links up, rockets, FKs.
 
crappycraperson said:
There is simply no comparison between the two. It's like comparing Riquelme to Diego. That's not an insult to the German but MVB is in a different league.
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These kind of comments turns it really childish mate. You know exactly what I said, I was nice and offered a compliment instead of just shutting up or highlighting a negative or who he is up against. You can compare a 6 yo with Maradona if they play the same way, that someone is "like" another doesn't translate to "they are exactly as skilled".
 
crappycraperson said:
This is pure garbage mate.

May be you just don't rate Van Basten but is plentiful for his 3 defenders, one of which is Sammer who has been asked to cover for his wing backs.. We also left our two wingers up field to run at his defense. Boniek is well capable of joining in the middle if Conti is the one with the ball.
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Maybe firepower wasn't the right word, but a partner to make that defence more vulnerable/kept on their toes further.

If we discount Riquelme completely like people want to for whatever reason
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For some reason we all universally lolled at his pressing job. This is decidedly not a game for Riquelme, there's too much graft everywhere and what he brings to the table Matthäus and Redondo already provide. Even if you can't field Tigana I would consider dropping Boniek into midfield or just leaving those two CMs to it and bring on RvN. There's plenty of stuff you can do, but playing Riquelme is the last thing you should be doing here.

Seemingly Diego would find a pass between Lothar and Matthaus
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So you have cloned him! :eek:

for Klinsmann being guarded by two CBs but 3 v 3 or 3 v 4 or 3 v 5 is not enough fire power!
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Not just Klinsmann but Lucho, or Mendieta, or either fullback, or carrying on solo... Maradona definitely has options, I'm not seeing what there is for Riquelme to exploit that Redondo and Matthäus can't. You don't have Keane and Vieira, you have two CMs who are pretty handy when it comes to placing the right ball, either give them midfield support/workrate that Riquelme doesn't provide or give them more options to aim for.

Not to mention Riquelme won't actually be a passenger, he would at least account for Deschamps when we are attacking to take a player away from others
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Play Matthäus in his best role and Deschamps will be accounted for, and beaten as well. Much better.
 
antohan said:
Maybe firepower wasn't the right word, but a partner to make that defence more vulnerable.



For some reason we all universally lolled at his pressing job. This is decidedly not a game for Riquelme, there's too much graft everywhere and what he brings to the table Matthäus and Redondo already provide. Even if you can't field Tigana I would consider dropping Boniek into midfield or just leaving those two CMs to it and bring on RvN. There's plenty of stuff you can do, but playing Riquelme is the last thing you should be doing here.
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I think this is a very good point, van Basten had so much more to offer than just being a striker and him running with the ball at his feet from deep with someone else also occupying the CB's was one of his better gifts. As well as his ability to turn crosses to goals, that Milan/Dutch side often dependent on VB and Gullit up front through crosses - or expecting them to do much of the work themselves.

It is hard to imagine him without that partner to link up with, someone who at times could allow van Basten to be doing something else - while still having a body in the box.
 
antohan said:
Maybe firepower wasn't the right word, but a partner to make that defence more vulnerable/kept on their toes further.



For some reason we all universally lolled at his pressing job. This is decidedly not a game for Riquelme, there's too much graft everywhere and what he brings to the table Matthäus and Redondo already provide. Even if you can't field Tigana I would consider dropping Boniek into midfield or just leaving those two CMs to it and bring on RvN. There's plenty of stuff you can do, but playing Riquelme is the last thing you should be doing here.



So you have cloned him! :eek:



Not just Klinsmann but Lucho, or Mendieta, or either fullback, or carrying on solo... Maradona definitely has options, I'm not seeing what there is for Riquelme to exploit that Redondo and Matthäus can't. You don't have Keane and Vieira, you have two CMs who are pretty handy when it comes to placing the right ball, either give them midfield support/workrate that Riquelme doesn't provide or give them more options to aim for.



Play Matthäus in his best role and Deschamps will be accounted for, and beaten as well. Much better.
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The pressing bit is an instruction when defending, he may be not equipped to carry out but that's a different issue. It does not come into the picture while attacking where he would still have an impact. Riquelme's passing range is simply better than Lothar and Redondo. Find him free up-field while attacking and he will pick out a free Conti or Boniek or might even just play a through pass to MVB for a goal.
 
Annahnomoss said:
These kind of comments turns it really childish mate. You know exactly what I said, I was nice and offered a compliment instead of just shutting up or highlighting a negative or who he is up against. You can compare a 6 yo with Maradona if they play the same way, that someone is "like" another doesn't translate to "they are exactly as skilled".
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I did not it mean it in an offensive way but it is pretty much the truth :confused: MVB IS on a different level to Klinsmann. If I started to bang on that Riquelme would have as much impact as Diego, that would be ridiculous and people would be right to point it out.
 
I can't really explain why, but I still think Viva/Crappy can outscore Annah. He's got the right players to tell the manager 'feck your strange tactics', we just do it anyway on our own, so I'm going to start the comeback here. Doubt it will change much though.
 
crappycraperson said:
The pressing bit is an instruction when defending, he may be not equipped to carry out but that's a different issue. It does not come into the picture while attacking where he would still have an impact. Riquelme's passing range is simply better than Lothar and Redondo. Find him free up-field while attacking and he will pick out a free Conti or Boniek or might even just play a through pass to MVB for a goal.
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The free Conti or Boniek with the wingbacks caught upfield is a Redondo/Matthäus job. By the time you work the ball to Riquelme much of the urgency has been lost. Picking a pass for MVB amid three defenders of that calibre would be incredibly tough, which is why I think adding RvN to the mix gives you better chances. What you lose in Riquelme being a better passer you win in having 2 vs. 3 + the movement of Conti and Boniek. I prefer the increased options, that's all, and that's in the attacking phase while defensively he is doing nothing.
 
Balu said:
I can't really explain why, but I still think Viva/Crappy can outscore Annah. He's got the right players to tell the manager 'feck your strange tactics', we just do it anyway on our own, so I'm going to start the comeback here. Doubt it will change much though.
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I struggle to think of another team better equipped to rip that defence apart but it seems Pepsi have had a word with Viva and Crappy making their man undroppable.

5ZyYOp.gif
 
antohan said:
I struggle to think of another team better equipped to rip that defence apart but it seems Pepsi have had a word with Viva and Crappy making their man undroppable.

5ZyYOp.gif
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:lol:
 
@Aldo - sorry mate... more work for you.. yet another change .. damage limitation mostly.. these players don't deserve to get a 7-0 hammering

New tactical change- Riquelme <> Ruud

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Change -

- Redondo and Lothar fall back to form a defensive wall in front of the back 4.
- Ruud provides support to MVB up front.
- Boniek gets the free role in the middle to pressure his CMs or run out wide as appropiate.
 
antohan said:
The free Conti or Boniek with the wingbacks caught upfield is a Redondo/Matthäus job. By the time you work the ball to Riquelme much of the urgency has been lost. Picking a pass for MVB amid three defenders of that calibre would be incredibly tough, which is why I think adding RvN to the mix gives you better chances. What you lose in Riquelme being a better passer you win in having 2 vs. 3 + the movement of Conti and Boniek. I prefer the increased options, that's all, and that's in the attacking phase while defensively he is doing nothing.
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Unfortunately I sort of agree with this. I toyed with playing

---------Lothar---------
---Redondo---Lahm------

But that means dropping MVB so was a no go. Plus Lahm in MF would have some people howling
 
crappycraperson said:
Unfortunately I sort of agree with this. I toyed with playing

---------Lothar---------
---Redondo---Lahm------

But that means dropping MVB so was a no go. Plus Lahm in MF would have some people howling
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Why not Lothar, Redondo and Tigana then? Lahm as a midfielder would count for 3 TP points anyway? You could then play Lahm rightback instead of Sagnol. Dropping MvB sucks, but I think it would have been the stronger team overall.
 
I love the fact that the OP is now VivaJanuzaj vs Crappy. My team is apparently a starter team :(.
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
@antohan I didn't know we had Shmeichel on our team :lol:
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D'oh! I just remembered seeing him and Buffon earlier today, but obviously it was the other game.

Even better though, one concern was having to defend deep, but Chilavert is ideal to push that defensive line up a wee bit (not too much though or else Alddo will start posting that youtube video, again).

How can this not be better than what you currently have?

VivaCrappy-formation-tactics.png
 
Balu said:
Why not Lothar, Redondo and Tigana then? Lahm as a midfielder would count for 3 TP points anyway? You could then play Lahm rightback instead of Sagnol. Dropping MvB sucks, but I think it would have been the stronger team overall.
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And he could have brough Rio on in defence as well. :wenger:
 
@antohan it doesn't really matter at this point.

Well done @Annahnomoss , you know I love your drafting and we always consult one another. Created a great team around Maradona(who is unstoppable here) to get the best of him.

@crappycraperson it was a great ride and you've been a superb co-manager. Was fun mate
 
Balu said:
Why not Lothar, Redondo and Tigana then? Lahm as a midfielder would count for 3 TP points anyway? You could then play Lahm rightback instead of Sagnol. Dropping MvB sucks, but I think it would have been the stronger team overall.
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Tigana got no credit last game! Apparently he was not good defensively and did not have any play making skill as well. So what was the point? Lahm would have provided great defensive shield. I do stand by Lahm being a bit suspect defensively at time and in a defensive full back role, Sagnol is better.
 
antohan said:
D'oh! I just remembered seeing him and Buffon earlier today, but obviously it was the other game.

Even better though, one concern was having to defend deep, but Chilavert is ideal to push that defensive line up a wee bit (not too much though or else Alddo will start posting that youtube video, again).
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Pretty sure Annah already did ;)

See here:
Annahnomoss said:
Not saying this is him at a weekly basis, but here he is against the legendary Baresi, Costacurta, Maldini, Tassoti defense, with Rijkaard in front of them.
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crappycraperson said:
Tigana got no credit last game! Apparently he was not good defensively and did not have any play making skill as well. So what was the point? Lahm would have provided great defensive shield. I do stand by Lahm being a bit suspect defensively at time and in a defensive full back role, Sagnol is better.
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Don't think that's true, but I rate Lahm at rightback very very highly. People mainly questioned the Tigana + Matthäus pair behind an AM. Both as box to box midfielders infront of Redondo however :drool:.
 
Balu said:
Don't think that's true, but I rate Lahm at rightback very very highly. People mainly questioned the Tigana + Matthäus pair behind an AM. Both as box to box midfielders infront of Redondo however :drool:.
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It was not just about the pair. There was a point in discussion when Tigana was identified as a free player in the middle and many said that does not matter since he does not have a passing range to exploit being free.
 
crappycraperson said:
Tigana got no credit last game! Apparently he was not good defensively and did not have any play making skill as well. So what was the point? Lahm would have provided great defensive shield. I do stand by Lahm being a bit suspect defensively at time and in a defensive full back role, Sagnol is better.
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Tigana was fine, it was just that he didn't quite suit the different descriptions. Not a pure holding midfielder (his attacking game would be wasted), not a passer/playmaker (he was more box-to-box run with the ball and simple passes). Doesn't make him a bad player and would actually really suit that trio I put together earlier with Redondo as a DLP, Matthäus in a more advanced playmaking role and Tigana bringing balance to it all by adopting the disposition best suited to whatever is going on at the time. That's exactly what you want from Tigana, gaging what the midfield is needing most from him and executing that role to keep things tidy.
 
crappycraperson said:
It was not just about the pair. There was a point in discussion when Tigana was identified as a free player in the middle and many said that does not matter since he does not have a passing range to exploit being free.
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You won the last game, so I'm sure it wasn't that bad. If I remember correctly someone questioned a comment by Viva that Tigana had a brilliant range of passing, which seemed a bit over the top. Tigana was an excellent box to box midfielder, no holding midfielder and no CM with a brilliant range of passing. Would have been perfect for this game next to Matthäus and Redondo.

/edit:
... what anto said.
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
@antohan it doesn't really matter at this point.

Well done @Annahnomoss , you know I love your drafting and we always consult one another. Created a great team around Maradona(who is unstoppable here) to get the best of him.

@crappycraperson it was a great ride and you've been a superb co-manager. Was fun mate
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Great game you too, I loved your side and thought I wouldn't be able to win this actually. I can imagine it is hard having assistants, at least I think so myself as you have two different ideas and nearly always it ends up being a mish mash of both.
 
To make it clearer, think about how France played: magic square. Platini we all know what he did, Fernandez was holding... and it was ultimately Giresse and Tigana who kept the shape. I'd say Tigana's role there was akin to Falcao's for Brazil. There are obviously differences because Brazil had that funny business going on with Junior pushing Falcao up and Falcao pushing Zico to striker as Eder came wide. But you only have to watch Brazil with and without Falcao to appreciate that -aside from all his remarkable attributes- he was the one that kept it structured, that kept the shape and the system ticking. Tigana's role for France was pretty much the same. The Zico's, Platini's and Socrates'of this world get the plaudits, but the role of those two in keeping things tidy and tactically disciplined is easily overlooked.
 
nobody underestimates van basten, neither did i. he's one of the greatest strikers ever, period.
 
Gone for vivacrappy just because I am absolutely in love with their midfield two and his strike partnership and wingers are very juicy.

Surprised by the score. I just don't think I connect with annahs team in this case. Looks too defensive to me.
 
rpitroda said:
Gone for vivacrappy just because I am absolutely in love with their midfield two and his strike partnership and wingers are very juicy.

Surprised by the score. I just don't think I connect with annahs team in this case. Looks too defensive to me.
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I have absolutely no idea why he has a hard on for compacting the entire side in his own half. Weird.
 
antohan said:
I have absolutely no idea why he has a hard on for compacting the entire side in his own half. Weird.
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Yet he's crushing us. Seems to know what he's doing :D

Gio said:
I rate Annah's back three, but Van Basten must have turned them over a few times in his hey-day.
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The score and people's attention in the draft's matchups didn't show it. Seemed like we're playing an average striker, not a disadvantage, but definitely nothing to show for.
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
Yet he's crushing us. Seems to know what he's doing :D

The score and people's attention in the draft's matchups didn't show it. Seemed like we're playing an average striker, not a disadvantage, but definitely nothing to show for.
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I don't think van Basten was a problem, the problem was the early confusion on what Redondo and Matthäus were doing, which further highlighted the importance of Riquelme being on song which, frankly, no one could see happening here. Had you started with your current lineup and instructions I don't think the gap would be this wide.

There is however a major thing to mull over in terms of whether the delta between van Basten and Ruud is worth having Tigana and Rio on the bench. It's a game of very few chances and those two improve your defensive setup enormously, while the few chances that could come Marco's way could quite feasibly be put away by Ruud. Marco would likely make a few more chances come his way, but not as many as Tigana/Rio could prevent at the other end.

IMO
 
I was expecting a clear loss here honestly, I even tried to tell you guys to change tactics early on because I wanted to clash against a titan here even if I also thought I would lose if you changed tactics. Also felt it was time for a Crappy/VJ final which I would have liked to see. The entire defensive set-up was a bit of a mare, it felt a lot like VJ had one idea and Crappy a complete other - and in the end you mixed them both and created something pretty off as a compromise.

The idea of having Boniek and Conti for counters, with van Basten already having a job which allows him to counter - putting an extreme strain in Riquelme to defend for three people was a major issue. The other issue was of course that one of you wanted to man mark Maradona, and the mix became, well, a bit off.

It is as if I said Mendieta, Enrique, Klinsmann won't defend just stay by the half-line looking for a counter and press from there - instead Maradona of all people will do the covering of runs made from Redondo and Matthaus. It simply lacks realism and balance.

I would have loved to see you guys go through, you could have upgraded massively by replacing VB and saving up 6 TP points. Your offense was undeniably absolute great, in this game too.
 
Yeah we were planning on starting with:

Chilavert
Lahm Rio Ayala Lizarazu
Matthaus Redondo
Boniek Riquelme Conti
RVN
​

Than Crappy suggested(what I thought was a superb idea) to play this formation. I still think it was the better idea. I think if we kept Lucho and played him instead of JRR we could've done this counter better, but both of us wanted to sell. I think these were our mistakes. Anyway, Annah you are a superb drafter and a worthy winner. Expected it to be tighter but knew it was a tough matchup. Well done.
 
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