At what point are we going to acknowledge that we're not an elite side anymore?

When Mourinho decided to bail out by getting himself sacked
 
I agree with others in this thread. We haven't been an elite side for almost a decade.

And it's okay.

We don't play in Spain or Germany where the title is a 2 horse race every season. There are 6 teams that can all make a title run this season, but then there are teams below who can still take scalps off any of the top teams. The standards are so much higher, and if you are even slightly off it, or can't put out your best team, you will be punished.

So we all know that it takes tremendous effort and luck to win the premier league title. Or to even be in the race. And right now, we are no where near that level. But we have been in this position before. We didn't win the title for 25 years, and people are still nostalgic for that period. You go to matches now and there are men wearing kits from the 1980's. People cherishing wins over Barcelona in 1984 or beating Liverpool in the charity shield in 1983.

You have to experience the lows to really enjoy the good times, and we had a good 25 years at the very top. And we will again, and all the people born after 2014 will experience what we had in the the Fergie years, and it will mean something, because we know how it felt to have had it all and lose it.
 
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I acknowledged it years ago. We are a Europa League level side and The EL trophy is the highest we can aspire to win nowadays.
 
A lot of us have already acknowledged that, long time ago. We are heading into irrelevance, not just in terms of success, but cultural, as well.
 
Just look at our starting 11 and it's clear we're not an elite side and we can't attract the best players (in their prime) anymore either. But the positive is that we get to see a lot of our youngsters and if we're lucky one/some of them will develop into something really special.

I have accepted what and where we are now and adjusted my expectations accordingly.
 
Happened when Ronaldo was first sold.

Rooney then called the club out and lost a large chunk of his fans and Fergie's support in doing so.

You can't sell the best player in the world and replace with Owen and Valencia. Criminal act.

That was our downfall. We still had quality left for a few titles and buys like Chicharito were excellent and of course RVP.

Fergie left and the club stagnated completely and were OK with a top 4 finish.

A class of 92 type group of players could take us back to the top but those chances are slim.

We need a solid structure with a shared vision of all football decision makers. Recruitment needs to be spot on and you need luck too. If we hit on Rooney and Ronaldo type young phenoms things could change very fast.
 
We haven't been an elite side for a long time and most people know that full well.

The question is whether we're still an elite club. I think not, even that ship has sailed.
 
At this point, we're a mid table club with more money and a better history than other mid table clubs, so we end up getting 5-6th instead of 8th-12th due having more expensive squad
 
Liverpool were in the same situation from the 90s and up until klopp took over so it's not like we are totally screwed as a club to reclaim our place as elite club but the reality is we will likely never witness sheer decades of domination like we did under fergie, especially with a new breed of blood money owners taking over epl sides
 
Is it another way of saying that United fans shouldn't expect the team to fight for the PL,
because "current elite teams" like Arsenal, Liverpool and City are ahead of us?

Ditto with the CL, where there are probably 10 teams or so that are better than us?
 
What frustrates me more than anything is i'm sure pretty much all of us knew we would probably have 3 or 4 dodgy seasons while the club transitioned past SAF, but did ANYONE honestly think we would be THIS far past SAF's retirement and we are as far away from the club we were under him than ever.

I mean and we cant really blame lack of funds because has any team spent as much as we have since SAF retired?, there cant be many if there is.
 
RetroStu said:
What frustrates me more than anything is i'm sure pretty much all of us knew we would probably have 3 or 4 dodgy seasons while the club transitioned past SAF, but did ANYONE honestly think we would be THIS far past SAF's retirement and we are as far away from the club we were under him than ever.

I mean and we cant really blame lack of funds because has any team spent as much as we have since SAF retired?, there cant be many if there is.
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No other team has an absolute pelican like Woodward running the place like a so called Disneyland. The fact that the American idiots let him run the club like a glorified toy shop has resulted in our current position. Those that came after him have about the same amount of gravitas, and signing Dutch players as a focus was symptomatic of the issue, not being able to move players due to wages and their impact on the balance sheet certainly didn’t help.

Until the Glazers influence is removed, we will continue he to drift. That’s why a takeover by the Sheik would have been preferable, a clean sheet with enough funds to refurbish Old Trafford and some room to overcome FFP restrictions.

Don’t think we can anticipate any massive changes in the near term
 
It was hard to accept but yeah we're going through the RAWK years when Pool were shite. We need a reset from top to bottom and need an Ian Edwards + Michael Edwards type luck to resuscitate us.
 
I still remember when Moyes said "we aspire to be like City" after back to back 0-3 home defeats to Liverpool and City in 2014, both competing for the title at the time.

Destruction of the spirit of a team that walked to the title in Fergie's final season was complete. As Ray Bobbins said, the heart was ripped out of the team and we haven't recovered since.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
Happened when Ronaldo was first sold.

Rooney then called the club out and lost a large chunk of his fans and Fergie's support in doing so.

You can't sell the best player in the world and replace with Owen and Valencia. Criminal act.

That was our downfall. We still had quality left for a few titles and buys like Chicharito were excellent and of course RVP.

Fergie left and the club stagnated completely and were OK with a top 4 finish.

A class of 92 type group of players could take us back to the top but those chances are slim.

We need a solid structure with a shared vision of all football decision makers. Recruitment needs to be spot on and you need luck too. If we hit on Rooney and Ronaldo type young phenoms things could change very fast.
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It probably started when Glazers bought the club tbh. But we didn`t see the effects of it until 2009-2010.
Still traumatized after that summer, was drooling over the possible players we could buy, Karim Benzema, David Silva, David Villa, Sergio Aguero.. Ended up with a permacrock in Owen and a sligthly above average wingback in Valencia..
 
Elite sides are cyclical. Liverpool - currently an elite side. They weren't for 20 years. Man City - currently an elite side. They weren't for a long time. We're an elite club and we always will be one. An elite club has the infrastructure and budget to have elite sides for a sustained period (Leicester had an elite side but as they're not an elite club, it would only be fleeting).

That's my take on it anyway.

We're an elite club - and probably always will be
 
no value era literally murdered us. there have been couple of great bunches of players from Germany and Spain in those years, yet we just stood like it doesn't concern us while others were buying and improving. nice one.
 
Never will be an elite side under Glazers ownership. I stopped going to watch Utd not long after they took over and had been a staunch supporter from being a kid. I still love Utd but never even think of going to watch them live. I stopped buying merchandise too. All in all it has saved me a lot of money but in the long term I think it is more important to rid these ridiculously greedy people from our club. Not sure it will happen in my life time and I was devastated when Ratcliffe got the nod to buy a minor stake in the club because I feel he is tarred with the same brush.
 
We have been elitely shit since 2013. These things go in rotation. lfc, mcfc, had years in the wilderness...now its our turn whilst others shine. Bastards. :lol:
 
The first step to solving a problem is recognising that you have one.

We were complacent dating back to 2010 or even before that. We fell behind our rivals who modernised their infrastructure and operations.

We presume that everything is down to the manager and sack each one before he has a chance to effect any significant, lasting change. All the while assuming that signing players who will sell shirts is a sustainable recruitment strategy yet refusing to invest in the long term development of the club.

We are firmly in Tier 2 with a realistic prospect of slipping into Tier 3.

What I can’t understand is how anyone expects things to be any better than they are.
 
I know our treble has been matched and I know liveprool are on course to probably equal our league tally. But we will always be an elite club in terms of status and support. You can’t take away that no Liverpool or city fan in the 90s had a childhood thanks to us they will forever hate us. Every year that goes by that we don’t win the league is a year for them to celebrate. But not to worry every dog has its day. We will be back. We are too rich and big enough not too. We’ll get it right eventually.. I hope. P.s get ready for when them lot win the league they’ll start saying they are the biggest club in England
 
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