At what point are we going to acknowledge that we're not an elite side anymore?

We are no longer an elite team.

In the business sphere we might still be an elite club but even that will start to fade if we keep regressing. Its down to our vast global fanbase that were still relevant and bringing in millions of $$.
 
Tyrion said:
I think the OP is criticising people that think we're a season away from being elite but I don't think any fan thinks that. They also mentioned the "if this was Bayern" comparisons which I agree are dumb.
Click to expand...

If people are deluded enough to think this squad is a season away from being elite, then they’re definitely a small minority. Hardly thread worthy to address such a minority.
 
Well, if the club was being honest they would be conducting a full review of operations from ownership, staff, transfers, stadium facilities etc and it should be an independent company doing the review and made public. Man Utd is a worldwide entity snd the fall since the ownership change is so dire that it needs a root and branch investigative review.

Obviously this won’t happen under the Glazers , but fmd it would at least uncover how far the club has fallen in best practice and the steps needed to recover.
 
Is not just fans though is it? It's the media, the pundits (many of who are ex-players who love the club and naturally have high expectations), and sometimes, even the opposition.

The reaction to us dropping points is a lot stronger than when teams around us do because of the history and size of the club
 
stepic said:
If people are deluded enough to think this squad is a season away from being elite, then they’re definitely a small minority. Hardly thread worthy to address such a minority.
Click to expand...

I'd agree. The comparisons with Bayern and Real are more common but that's just one of the stupid comparisons people make in football all the time. I doubt they even think it through.
 
We are incompetently run, we overpay for mediocre players, and then refuse to buy someone like Kane.

Guardiola would fail here.
 
Aston Villa are in the top 3, Leicester won the title less than a decade ago. So no, it’s not unreasonable or deluded to think United should be challenging for the title. The fact that they’re not is an indictment on the club - the players, the executives and the coaching staff. But I’m not sure why fans should expect less.
 
Atheist said:
Aston Villa are in the top 3, Leicester won the title less than a decade ago. So no, it’s not unreasonable or deluded to think United should be challenging for the title. The fact that they’re not is an indictment on the club - the players, the executives and the coaching staff. But I’m not sure why fans should expect less.
Click to expand...

Yes, point out the absolute exception to the norm and assume that should apply to this mediocre bunch of players in our team, cause that's how life works? The team is as average as it gets. Compare our players, at least the ones starting now, by position with Villa's and you would easily take 8/11 of them. Watkins, diaby and baily better than anything we have up top. Douglas Luiz is a monster. Mcginm is talismatic. Their defenders are colossals right now. Cash is a better rb than anything we have. Martinez right now appears far better than onana. Digne over reguilon any day of the week. I'm genuinely struggling to think of anyone id include in a combined 11.

The reality is, the villas and Brightons of the prem have gotten stronger and are much closer to us. The ones at the top strengthen better and more often than us with a clear strategy and are miles ahead.

So going off the reality, that being our current team, no we should not be competing at the top. If you think our name alone earns us the right to compete then you're going to be disappointed more often than not... Unless one of Leicester-esque freak seasons happen ofcourse.
 
We are still a massive club goes without saying but currently we aren’t elite regards options for players at the minute there’s to much of a circus and doesn’t like any possible progress or plan in places.

to say we aren’t an elite club is silly. Ac Milan haven’t been at there last few years doesn’t take away that they are a massive club.
 
berbasloth4 said:
We are still a massive club goes without saying but currently we aren’t elite regards options for players at the minute there’s to much of a circus and doesn’t like any possible progress or plan in places.

to say we aren’t an elite club is silly. Ac Milan haven’t been at there last few years doesn’t take away that they are a massive club.
Click to expand...

This exactly the sort of deluded nonsense I'm on about.

I wouldn't class AC Milan as an elite side either, but at least they managed to win a league title the other year.

We're not in the conversation for winning the Premier League, and haven't been for 10 years, and we're even further away from being considered in contention for the Champions League. We can't even consistently qualify for the thing, and even when we do, we've struggled to get out of the group more often than we've progressed to the knockouts (assuming we don't perform a miracle tonight).

You're not an elite side just because you used to win a lot and have a lot of fans.
 
Atheist said:
Aston Villa are in the top 3, Leicester won the title less than a decade ago. So no, it’s not unreasonable or deluded to think United should be challenging for the title. The fact that they’re not is an indictment on the club - the players, the executives and the coaching staff. But I’m not sure why fans should expect less.
Click to expand...

It's mid December. Villa are not and will not be in the title race.
 
Withnail said:
It's mid December. Villa are not and will not be in the title race.
Click to expand...
Almost half of the season is played and they are two points behind the top. Right now they definitely are in the title race. They night drop out, but that's how it is now.
 
Tyrion said:
I'd agree. The comparisons with Bayern and Real are more common but that's just one of the stupid comparisons people make in football all the time. I doubt they even think it through.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's stupid, it just shows what level you have to reach again to become an elite club again. Clearly there is lots of work to do for that.
 
I always find blanket statements to cover up certain things. We are not an elite team and haven't been one for over 10 years...but... it's not because of the managers or the playing teams. We are not elite because we don't employ the world's best in all the top positions behind the scenes and because the footballing structure behind the manager is crap. The moment we give positions to John Murtough and Darren Fletcher etc...there is NO way we can be elite. It doesn't matter which manager we would have...even Pep would struggle at manutd. We wouldn't be able to get rid of the players he doesn't want...and we definitely would spend 4 months negotiating for single targets only to be denied at the last minute. We are not elite at any point in our footballing structure. Even our academy that has a lot of talent doesn't really win much locally nowadays and gets beat hands down in the UEFA Youth leagues...We are absolutely average at all levels of football
 
We look at this side with our red taint spectacles and think we are elite side.

But deep down we all know we are not. Don't think anyone is saying we are elite anymore.

Only thing that is elite is our name, Manchester United. And The Glazers are doing their best to drag that in mud too
 
In a footballing sense we haven’t been an elite club for over 10 years. We are and have been a joke because there is zero ambition at the top for on field success and this permeates all the way down to the squad.

Not moving Woodward after the fellaini incident was the first evidence and then keeping him on for another 10 years only to sack him because they had to over the super league again shows the pure apathy the glazers have to having a club of excellence.

While some fans argue about shifting the managerial deckchair of the titanic, the rest of us can see that until there’s infrastructure change , it really doesn’t matter who is in charge. We will only be fluttering between 6th and champions league qualification. That’s not good enough for me, so I don’t see the benefit of sacking ETH other then moving a few deckchairs for a few months.
 
"At what point are we going to acknowledge that we're not an elite side anymore?"

About ten years ago.
 
Over 10.yrs ago that was.. Even our Europa league and league cup under Jose wasn't elite football.. last time was the CL finals we got to under SAF ..Barca twice and Chelsea.. we were then top of the Tree.. after no.. its going to be maybe another 10 yrs .. as well
 
We have NOT been elite since the 'no value in the market' era. It's a miracle we managed to win two league titles and reached a Champions League final in the few years that followed -- pure Fergie magic.
 
The fact remains that nobody thought Arsenal were going anywhere good under Arteta after his first two season finishing 8th. But the club stuck to him and backed him. We have never done that to a single post SAF manager. Any manager that fails to get CL is sacked.
At some point if we are to get out of this rut, we’re gonna have to back a manager even if they have a horrible season. People here are very short termist - every season is treated like the be all and end all.
 
Can't speak for anyone else but I've not considered us an elite team for a decade. Our quality compared to the very best teams started dropping off at the end of Fergies reign
 
Ole's screen said:
The fact remains that nobody thought Arsenal were going anywhere good under Arteta after his first two season finishing 8th. But the club stuck to him and backed him. We have never done that to a single post SAF manager. Any manager that fails to get CL is sacked.
At some point if we are to get out of this rut, we’re gonna have to back a manager even if they have a horrible season. People here are very short termist - every season is treated like the be all and end all.
Click to expand...

I'm still pissed we sacked Van Gaal just as I began to see certain patterns with our football suggesting change for the better was just around the corner. The season that followed under Mourinho remains my favourite post-Fergie, granted, but until now I can't help but wonder how different things would have turned out had we given the mad Dutchman a little bit more time.
 
Kopral Jono said:
I'm still pissed we sacked Van Gaal just as I began to see certain patterns with our football suggesting change for the better was just around the corner. The season that followed under Mourinho remains my favourite post-Fergie, granted, but until now I can't help but wonder how different things would have turned out had we given the mad Dutchman a little bit more time.
Click to expand...
You were in the minority then. We were going backwards under LvG and his football in the 15/16 season was by far the most boring I've ever witnessed at United.
 
Huge name/history and international brand. Haven't been an elite side in a long time. The lack of a plan from the Glazer's has had some serious consequences on our on field performances.
 
Von Mistelroum said:
It's not that we're not an elite side. That's extremely obvious to everyone. It's that we're not an elite club anymore, and that's more difficult to digest but very much true.

We're a club run terribly, that isn't going to win any major trophies for a very long time, barring any freak incidents occurring. Sadly, we're very much a club on the decline in every way, and this presents itself on the pitch.

This decline is very likely to continue, and to result in the club ending up being on par with the likes of Everton and Tottenham more than the top clubs, if we're lucky. I imagine with the state of the team on the pitch over the last decade, that younger fans will be interested in United, and as someone who lives in Yorkshire I rarely see United shirts anymore, where there used to be plenty. Suddenly there are Liverpool and City shirts all over the place though.
Click to expand...
This is a great distinction, and the finer point being we need to focus on becoming an elite club again before worrying about being an elite team.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
You were in the minority then. We were going backwards under LvG and his football in the 15/16 season was by far the most boring I've ever witnessed at United.
Click to expand...
The only manager who's successfully implemented a style. We were absolutely not going backwards.
 
BluesJr said:
The only manager who's successfully implemented a style. We were absolutely not going backwards.
Click to expand...

It was a dull, ineffective style that was becoming increasingly easy for opposition sides to play against as it relied heavily on moments of individual brilliance for us to actually manage a shot on target, let alone score a goal.

The West Ham game that cost us CL qualification was a prime example of that. 59% possession and scored two goals off our only two shots on target, only managing three shots in total, and still lost.

The game before we beat Norwich 1-0, with 67% possession and just two shots on target.

It was the same story for many of our matches that season.
 
We’re not one of the best teams. Nobody claims we are

What we do know however, is that it wouldn’t take much for us to become one again.

If United got their house in order today, we’d be one of the best teams by 2025 easily
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
Seems like you’re just making things up to get annoyed about. Who exactly is still claiming we’re an Elite side?
Click to expand...

There are multiple people literally in this thread saying as much.

Even the post below seems to think we're one (or two at most) summer windows away from being back at the top.

LawCharltonBest said:
We’re not one of the best teams. Nobody claims we are

What we do know however, is that it wouldn’t take much for us to become one again.

If United got their house in order today, we’d be one of the best teams by 2025 easily
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.