Astronomy & Space Exploration

Raoul said:
There's also a temporal issue to be considered. For instance, if a human like civilization with technology comparable to ours existed in a solar system 100 light years away - 4 billion years ago, they may look at earth and see something like this. Not much life action going on here. Likewise, when we find exoplanets in the habitable zone, its entirely plausible that although they may exhibit conditions favorable to some form of life, that it may have either not happened yet or happened and already gone extinct. And since we can't measure for either, life very well could've existed in abundance on vastly different time scales from the one that we are attempting to measure with from present day earth.

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The time scale point is so important to all of this. Humans have existed for ~300k years, had civilizations for a few thousand, and started sending messages out in space a bit over a hundred years ago. Even if we live in a galaxy teeming with intelligent life, it's perfectly plausible that barely any of that life overlaps in time.
 
nimic said:
The time scale point is so important to all of this. Humans have existed for ~300k years, had civilizations for a few thousand, and started sending messages out in space a bit over a hundred years ago. Even if we live in a galaxy teeming with intelligent life, it's perfectly plausible that barely any of that life overlaps in time.
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Whilst true, that's depressing. This thread needs more "Nanu Nanu"!

(I'm currently rewatching the x-files with a huge dose of nostalgia, so analytical thinking is offline)
 
nimic said:
The time scale point is so important to all of this. Humans have existed for ~300k years, had civilizations for a few thousand, and started sending messages out in space a bit over a hundred years ago. Even if we live in a galaxy teeming with intelligent life, it's perfectly plausible that barely any of that life overlaps in time.
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Agreed, and it only reinforces the problem we face in finding life on other worlds. Not only do we have vast distance problem, we have a temporal problem as well.
 
nimic said:
The time scale point is so important to all of this. Humans have existed for ~300k years, had civilizations for a few thousand, and started sending messages out in space a bit over a hundred years ago. Even if we live in a galaxy teeming with intelligent life, it's perfectly plausible that barely any of that life overlaps in time.
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Exactly.
For me, it is the sheer size of our galaxy as well. Even though radio waves travel at the speed of light, it still takes many many years to reach the earth.
The JWST is going to give us a fantastic amount of information by just looking at stars and other planets out there.
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/science-environment-66881285

Summary

Experts are moving a capsule containing fragments of asteroid Bennu from a remote part of the Utah desert to a military base

The container - which landed safely in the desert at 08:52 local time (15:52 BST) - is being transported via a longline device strapped to the bottom of a helicopter

It entered Earth's atmosphere at 27,000mph, and more than 2,700C, before a parachute helped to slow its descent

It is hoped the material from Bennu could tell Nasa how life on Earth began

Scientists estimate the probe has 250g of dust onboard, which will be analysed by researchers around the world

Bennu is regarded as the most dangerous rock in the Solar System because, although chances are slim, its path gives it the highest probability of impacting Earth of any known asteroid
 
Buster15 said:
I have read that if there is carbon dioxide and methane, this would suggest organic origin.
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It’s more likely to be from hydrothermal vents at Europa’s ocean floor, there are definitely geological means for CO2 and CH4 to exist on Europa.

Hydrothermal vents are teeming with life on Earth so it doesn’t necessarily mean there is no life on Europa (I’d put money on there is) but I’m doubtful CO2 and CH4 detected on the surface are of biological origin.
 
That'sHernandez said:
It’s more likely to be from hydrothermal vents at Europa’s ocean floor, there are definitely geological means for CO2 and CH4 to exist on Europa.

Hydrothermal vents are teeming with life on Earth so it doesn’t necessarily mean there is no life on Europa (I’d put money on there is) but I’m doubtful CO2 and CH4 detected on the surface are of biological origin.
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Thank you for this interesting response which I understand.
 
Badunk said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/science-environment-66881285

Summary

Experts are moving a capsule containing fragments of asteroid Bennu from a remote part of the Utah desert to a military base

The container - which landed safely in the desert at 08:52 local time (15:52 BST) - is being transported via a longline device strapped to the bottom of a helicopter

It entered Earth's atmosphere at 27,000mph, and more than 2,700C, before a parachute helped to slow its descent

It is hoped the material from Bennu could tell Nasa how life on Earth began

Scientists estimate the probe has 250g of dust onboard, which will be analysed by researchers around the world

Bennu is regarded as the most dangerous rock in the Solar System because, although chances are slim, its path gives it the highest probability of impacting Earth of any known asteroid
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I’ve always wondered, is there also a risk of releasing a space ‘virus’ not seen on this planet before?
 
golden_blunder said:
I’ve always wondered, is there also a risk of releasing a space ‘virus’ not seen on this planet before?
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I think that's why they took it immediately to a "cleaning room", rather than divvy it up and send it off to umpteen different labs. I imagine the security and contamination protocols will be incredibly stringent.
 
Badunk said:
I think that's why they took it immediately to a "cleaning room", rather than divvy it up and send it off to umpteen different labs. I imagine the security and contamination protocols will be incredibly stringent.
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Nah that's most likely just to keep the sample free from contaminants from Earth. They might just have trace amounts of some of the stuff in the sample and if that's comparable to what you'd get from handling it under ambient conditions then your measurement is ruined.
 
rcoobc said:
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What is fascinating about this brand new information that the Universe could be twice as old as we previously thought is that science for the past however many decades has treated the age of the Universe and the Big Bang as orthodoxy, only to learn now that things may have been completely different. Makes you wonder if similar revelations are on the horizon in the particle physics world, our understanding of black holes, and beyond.
 
Raoul said:
What is fascinating about this brand new information that the Universe could be twice as old as we previously thought is that science for the past however many decades has treated the age of the Universe and the Big Bang as orthodoxy, only to learn now that things may have been completely different. Makes you wonder if similar revelations are on the horizon in the particle physics world, our understanding of black holes, and beyond.
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To be clear, most astrophysicists still believe that the age of the Universe is 13.7-ish billion years. This could turn out to be massive, or it could turn out to be nothing at all. Or anywhere in between.
 
golden_blunder said:
Forgot about that movie, I was thinking more like a space version of something on the scale of original covid.
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I saw it again about a year ago and it's still decent, albeit always felt the last 20-30 was a bit weak.
The Thing was better.

Interesting re diseases though. There must be types of life we can't even conceive out there, given the different environments out there.
 
Jippy said:
I saw it again about a year ago and it's still decent, albeit always felt the last 20-30 was a bit weak.
The Thing was better.

Interesting re diseases though. There must be types of life we can't even conceive out there, given the different environments out there.
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Yeah I just wonder what’s trapped in the rock samples that may not exist here? I know it’s a small possibility but surely still a possibility?
 
golden_blunder said:
Yeah I just wonder what’s trapped in the rock samples that may not exist here? I know it’s a small possibility but surely still a possibility?
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It almost certainly wouldn't have any effect on us. It would be operating completely differently from us. Even viruses have DNA/RNA, for example, but why would an alien virus have that?
 
Raoul said:
What is fascinating about this brand new information that the Universe could be twice as old as we previously thought is that science for the past however many decades has treated the age of the Universe and the Big Bang as orthodoxy, only to learn now that things may have been completely different. Makes you wonder if similar revelations are on the horizon in the particle physics world, our understanding of black holes, and beyond.
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nimic said:
To be clear, most astrophysicists still believe that the age of the Universe is 13.7-ish billion years. This could turn out to be massive, or it could turn out to be nothing at all. Or anywhere in between.
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Yeah I'm not sure there's anywhere near enough evidence to even say the universe might be much older than we thought.

An interesting theory but then what
 
rcoobc said:
Yeah I'm not sure there's anywhere near enough evidence to even say the universe might be much older than we thought.

An interesting theory but then what
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This new narrative is only a couple of months old based on new information from JWST, so it will take a lot more discussion in the scientific community before it becomes the new normal, but it is pretty interesting nonetheless.
 
Raoul said:
Makes you wonder if similar revelations are on the horizon in the particle physics world, our understanding of black holes, and beyond.
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That indeed is an area in deep trouble. If you are interested in it Sabine Hossenfelder's book Lost in Math goes into a lot of detail, but she also has some great overview videos on her Youtube channel
 
nimic said:
It almost certainly wouldn't have any effect on us. It would be operating completely differently from us. Even viruses have DNA/RNA, for example, but why would an alien virus have that?
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I don’t know enough about that side of things admittedly so I will take your word for it
 
stefan92 said:
That indeed is an area in deep trouble. If you are interested in it Sabine Hossenfelder's book Lost in Math goes into a lot of detail, but she also has some great overview videos on her Youtube channel
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Love her videos. Much more informative than most.
 
That'sHernandez said:
It’s more likely to be from hydrothermal vents at Europa’s ocean floor, there are definitely geological means for CO2 and CH4 to exist on Europa.

Hydrothermal vents are teeming with life on Earth so it doesn’t necessarily mean there is no life on Europa (I’d put money on there is) but I’m doubtful CO2 and CH4 detected on the surface are of biological origin.
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Sending a lander to europa and visiting Neptune and Uranus again are probably my two most anticipated NASA missions. Though the latter has no confirmation and would need to launch by 2034 to get a gravity assist from jupiter.

Though if boeing ever actual deliver the SLS technology, we could launch heavy payloads out towards these planets without the assist from jupiter.

Clock is ticking on visiting Uranus. If we dont launch a mission by 2034, then we will have to wait decades for the next time Uranus reaches its equinox and is fully luminated as is its moons by the sun. We need to have a orbiter that could last for years in orbit of Uranus, especially as we would want to capture the environmental changes to the planet when its seasons last for decades.
 
golden_blunder said:
I don’t know enough about that side of things admittedly so I will take your word for it
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Already on Earth, there are tons of viruses that have no effect on humans because they're not adapted to be effective in the human body. Viruses from other worlds very likely wouldn't be able to interact with any living being on Earth. You could worry about crazy micro-organism that would somehow go crazy on Earth in a destructive way - but even those would have to be able to survive in the Earth's specific circumstances. Except if there is really only one path to life (i.e., any planet with life would have a similar physical and chemical situation), there's a good chance those organisms would just die when exposed to the Earth's conditions.
 
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Cheimoon said:
Already on Earth, there are tons of viruses that have no effect on humans because they're not adapted to be effective in the human body. Viruses from other worlds very likely wouldn't be able to interact with any living being on Earth. You could worry about crazy micro-organism that would somehow go crazy on Earth in a destructive way - but even those would have to be able to survive in the Earth's specific circumstances. Except if there is really only one path to life (i.e., any planet with life would have a similar physical and chemical situation), there's a good chance those organism would just die when exposed to the Earth's conditions.
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I’ve watched enough sci-Fi to know that the way our shitty luck has been going, day of the triffids is just around the corner
 
The field of cosmology has changed massively since the 80s.
 
rcoobc said:
The field of cosmology has changed massively since the 80s.
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Indeed it has.
We used think that space was just an empty place full of absolutely nothing.
But now we know that it is full of.....fields.
 
Cheimoon said:
Already on Earth, there are tons of viruses that have no effect on humans because they're not adapted to be effective in the human body. Viruses from other worlds very likely wouldn't be able to interact with any living being on Earth. You could worry about crazy micro-organism that would somehow go crazy on Earth in a destructive way - but even those would have to be able to survive in the Earth's specific circumstances. Except if there is really only one path to life (i.e., any planet with life would have a similar physical and chemical situation), there's a good chance those organisms would just die when exposed to the Earth's conditions.
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Did you see the article about the parasites in the permafrost, entirely alive, after tens of thousands of years? By definition two things: one, we can assume that such organisms (moon/mars) can survive for incredible periods of time even after "life" is said to have disappeared (if it was present in Earth-like form); two, we cannot have any immunity, like-for-like, to that which has been kept out of the foodchain for such a vast period of time. Forget about Mars or the Moon, when that Permafrost starts melting, you have to wonder what kinds of virals and microbials, the second being among the most abundant of all lifeforms on the planet, have survived from previous geological eras. What was the Mammoth carrying? Or extinct bird species? All kinds of weird bacteria definitely exist, in-vitro (cryogenic), beneath that layer. One more reason we do not want it to melt. Aside from us all being dead when it does.
 
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