Arsenal - 2024/25

Solius said:
It's incredible to see how much both Arsenal and City have dropped off with just a couple of injuries. Both managers are bemoaning it and yet we got very little sympathy for basically barely having a full XI to put together for most games last year.
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A lot of the 'little sympathy' came from your own fan base as well. Some of the problems in your situation was buying players like Varane, Cas etc that were past their best or have known fitness issues, so it seemed inevitable in a way. However, there's no doubt you were unlucky as well, and despite 'banter', I think any right minded fan could see that

Whether it's Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal or Liverpool, I think all fans would agree to get consistent results you need relative consistency in selection. It's often not as simple as just the numbers of players out. Some players are more important than others, ie Odegaard at Arsenal, Rodri at Man City. Sometimes it's all about how difficult fixtures are when players are out, for instance playing a Southampton at home shouldn't impact you as much as playing a Newcastle away.

We all need a bit of luck, we were generally lucky with regards key players last season, and been a bit more unlucky this season, and the results speak for themselves. Whether you view that as just an excuse or an actual reason depends on your viewpoint.

I certainly think we are better than what the last few weeks suggest, and if we can keep the main players fit, will start to play better and pick up more wins. Whether that's enough to claw back a 9 points deficit in Liverpool I'm highly doubtful of, but I'm more interested in just getting back to winning games again first.
 
They need to bunch these internationals together. I find it so hard to get into a season with all this stop and go. And I don't think it's good for the players. We have had a major international tourney recently. I don't see the point in all this. Disproportionately, our players come back injured. It's nothing new I know...

I feel Arteta just needs a little more bravado...throw a little caution to the wind. There are times I have agreed with it, but it is too prevalent at the moment. In short there is too much Mourinho in there. Arteta's Arsenal of the last two years have been capable of playing some decent football, and he just needed to keep going along the same path.

Bit more positivity please Mikel.
 
WeePat said:
Odegaard is going to meet up for international duty. Solbakken says whether he’ll play or not is unclear but he’s happy he’s fit again.

https://www.tv2.no/sport/usikkerhet-rundt-odegaard-foler-meg-ikke-100-prosent/17169613/

I thought they might wrap him up cotton wool during the break. It would be crazy if Norway actually put him in a game.
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He is the captain, so he needs to show more fight than anyone really. I suspect if he was not captain, we would see him pulling out.

We have seen many players go off this weekend, Saka, Rice, Trent from the games I saw, went off injured. I suspect they all be back for the next game ater international break though.
 
WeePat said:
Odegaard is going to meet up for international duty. Solbakken says whether he’ll play or not is unclear but he’s happy he’s fit again.

https://www.tv2.no/sport/usikkerhet-rundt-odegaard-foler-meg-ikke-100-prosent/17169613/

I thought they might wrap him up cotton wool during the break. It would be crazy if Norway actually put him in a game.
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I don't think it's a bad thing if he goes away and plays a couple of games to up his fitness. Would be ideal if he could just play 60-70mins each game to help build up match fitness.
 
ArtetasHair said:
Not sure why the vitriol attacks on me for suggesting Arteta should be questioned if he can't win anything despite how awful City are this season.

Totally agree we have had the hardest fixtures but then we are dropping points at home. That's all on him. He could have bedded Nwaneri all this time but instead we saw a team with absolutely no creativity. Didn't even play Jorginho. That's all on him.

And yes I remember the bad times. I'm a match going fan for decades. Maybe me saying sacking him is harsh I agree but questions should be asked why he wasted an entire 2 months playing Havertz and Trossard in midfield when we could have played Nwaneri or Jorginho. We dropped points anyway

You can't be a serious team and be one Odegaard injury away from being dire.
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Agree. I also think Arteta made a massive misjudgement in trying to create a kind of siege mentality. He blamed bad results on ref decisions, injuries, bad luck and other things to try to portray that it was them against the world.

However, Arsenal players don't generally have the kind of strong character that would be motivated by this, instead they use it as an excuse. He's realised this in the last couple of weeks and has started digging the players out more, but it's too late, because the players have already psychologically accepted that the world is against them and that they can't win the league.
 
brozonis said:
Agree. I also think Arteta made a massive misjudgement in trying to create a kind of siege mentality. He blamed bad results on ref decisions, injuries, bad luck and other things to try to portray that it was them against the world.

However, Arsenal players don't generally have the kind of strong character that would be motivated by this, instead they use it as an excuse. He's realised this in the last couple of weeks and has started digging the players out more, but it's too late, because the players have already psychologically accepted that the world is against them and that they can't win the league.
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Think your reading too much into it. He was upset earlier in the season because he perceived decisions were going against him, but up to the red card in the Brighton game Arsenal were well on top, and up to the red card in the City game Arsenal were leading.

He's dug them out the last couple of weeks because the performance against Bournemouth was poor even before the red card, and the performance against Newcastle was just shocking with little excuse for it.
 
SilentWitness said:
They looked a bit better but think the title is gone for them. They have to take advantage of the moments when City slip up and they haven't. Yeah, they've had tough games and City have slipped up against worse teams but you still have to make it count.
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Unfortunately, I don't think it's City are their only competitors for the title right now.
 
SilentWitness said:
City are the team to beat post Jan because that's when they go on their crazy runs. You need to get the jump on them pre-Jan.
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In usual circumstances, I'd totally agree. I'm not sure how they are going to fare without Rodri mind you, history tells you they are much more vulnerable without him.
 
GoonerBear said:
In usual circumstances, I'd totally agree. I'm not sure how they are going to fare without Rodri mind you, history tells you they are much more vulnerable without him.
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I think it's silly to write City off because it's City and they've dominated the league. Many variables this season though for them that could cause a hiccup such as Rodri, 115 charges meme etc.
 
SilentWitness said:
I think it's silly to write City off because it's City and they've dominated the league. Many variables this season though for them that could cause a hiccup such as Rodri, 115 charges meme etc.
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I'm not writing them off, far from it. Pep has shown that he can find solutions for different problems, and he might well do again. All I'm saying is that it's been proven they are much more vulnerable without him, it just creates a bit of a chink in their armour when he's not there.
 
GoonerBear said:
I'm not writing them off, far from it. Pep has shown that he can find solutions for different problems, and he might well do again. All I'm saying is that it's been proven they are much more vulnerable without him, it just creates a bit of a chink in their armour when he's not there.
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Yeah, sorry, didn't mean you were specifically, just that others have been and I'd be wary. I agree they've been vulnerable recently.
 
SilentWitness said:
Yeah, sorry, didn't mean you were specifically, just that others have been and I'd be wary. I agree they've been vulnerable recently.
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The game at Anfield in a few weeks could be very telling, Liverpool with a chance of going 8 points clear of City with a win.
 
horsechoker said:
Arteta is a good manager maybe even a great one but I don't think he's the one to take them to glory.

If we use the Wenger timeline with 98-2004 being peak Wenger and 2010-18 being bottom level Wenger, Arteta is equal to 05-10 era.

I think Arsenal could do well to be a bit savage and go for a top level manager, who that is, I don't know. However, the club is in a much better place and has a good group of players, if they can get that manager who is a serial winner I think they'd break through their current ceiling.
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Why didnt you replace Ole with a top-level manager? Oh thats right, you thought Ten Hag was a top level manager. Why did Tottenham hire Conte post Nuno? Oh that's right, on paper it looked like a good appointment but he was totally ill suited at Tottenham.

This is the problem with appointing 'top managers'. What makes you think they are 'top'?

Who are these 'top' managers that carry no risk?
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
If Arsenal are stuck in perpetual also-ran status under Arteta then it's worth taking a gamble on getting to the top. No one can say he hasn't been given time. This would be his fifth full season at the club. Only one of his four seasons wasn't ultimately underwhelming (23/24). This one's getting there.

It's not a 'relic' form of thinking, the obsession with having long-term managers is what's antiquated and largely abandoned outside of England.
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So say feck it and give De Zerbi the job. Liquidate the hard work in your mortgage and take it down the casino and bet it all on black?

This is why fans would make terrible chairmen. The levels of strategic thinking are reduced to 'gambling'.
 
With City crumbling and Liverpool likely not to continue with their current form, I think they have the best chance to win the league this season. They got a lot of tough away games out of the way and with Odegaard back they would get some their attacking mojo back. They need to build a points lead over City by Christmas and get the momentum on their side. We know that City are going to sign Zubemendi in the Jan window and get going again. It's now or never for Arsenal.
 
ArtetaInInIn said:
So say feck it and give De Zerbi the job. Liquidate the hard work in your mortgage and take it down the casino and bet it all on black?

This is why fans would make terrible chairmen. The levels of strategic thinking are reduced to 'gambling'.
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I think it does bring about a valid point though. At what point does the club decide to move on from Arteta and seek a coach that can get them over the line?

Ultimately despite top four, in terms of actual tangible success he’s brought in one trophy in five years.

It could be he’s taken things as far as he can and built the platform for someone else to come in and push the club that bit further.

Obviously he could finish this season with a trophy and that will make some of the above redundant however if he doesn’t surely a conversation needs to be had?
 
ArtetaInInIn said:
Well if we sack him, he would get the Man City job when Pep leaves next year, or the year after. Ao Arteta would be alright

Who would we get? De Zerbi or Frank?

Only stupid Arsenal fans want him sacked.
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Absolutely no chance City touch Arteta.

I see more has come out about the London midfielder in his 30s who we can’t name…. I wonder if his club manager will continue to keep playing him.
 
TheReligion said:
I think it does bring about a valid point though. At what point does the club decide to move on from Arteta and seek a coach that can get them over the line?

Ultimately despite top four, in terms of actual tangible success he’s brought in one trophy in five years.

It could be he’s taken things as far as he can and built the platform for someone else to come in and push the club that bit further.

Obviously he could finish this season with a trophy and that will make some of the above redundant however if he doesn’t surely a conversation needs to be had?
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Just move on from Arteta and get a new manager, casual like.............sounds like an Ed Woodward idea
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
If Arsenal are stuck in perpetual also-ran status under Arteta then it's worth taking a gamble on getting to the top. No one can say he hasn't been given time. This would be his fifth full season at the club. Only one of his four seasons wasn't ultimately underwhelming (23/24). This one's getting there.

It's not a 'relic' form of thinking, the obsession with having long-term managers is what's antiquated and largely abandoned outside of England.
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Not a relic form of thinking, just a Real Madrid way of thinking.

The worst that could happen in case of a shit appointment for your lot is finishing 3rd. In most years, it's even 2nd.

The PL is much more competitive and gambling in this way could land you outside the top-4 for a few years. I'm sure United, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea could attest to that. Basically, everyone except City.
 
erikcred said:
Not a relic form of thinking, just a Real Madrid way of thinking.

The worst that could happen in case of a shit appointment for your lot is finishing 3rd. In most years, it's even 2nd.

The PL is much more competitive and gambling in this way could land you outside the top-4 for a few years. I'm sure United, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea could attest to that. Basically, everyone except City.
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So true

I also find it ridiculous Man United fans set hard rules when Alex Ferguson went 6 years before he won the league title.

Dont think Fergie would have survived the internet era.
 
ArtetaInInIn said:
Why didnt you replace Ole with a top-level manager? Oh thats right, you thought Ten Hag was a top level manager. Why did Tottenham hire Conte post Nuno? Oh that's right, on paper it looked like a good appointment but he was totally ill suited at Tottenham.

This is the problem with appointing 'top managers'. What makes you think they are 'top'?

Who are these 'top' managers that carry no risk?
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This is an emotional defence but seeing your username it's hardly a surprise. Your United whataboutism is funny, why preoccupy yourself with United's affairs?

Arteta has had no qualms about replacing players who he didn't think were good enough. Arsenal could also upgrade on him too.
 
ArtetaInInIn said:
So true

I also find it ridiculous Man United fans set hard rules when Alex Ferguson went 6 years before he won the league title.

Dont think Fergie would have survived the internet era.
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Comparing Arteta with Ferguson :lol:

Remind me what Sir Alex won at Aberdeen before he even came here?
 
There might be a better manager out there for us, but there are 100s worse picks. I don't feel like we should be experimenting wildly. Arteta needs to change his mentality a little how he approaches some games. He is a very capable manager otherwise.

Look at all the junk out there masquerading as top level managers. No thanks.
 
Changeisgood said:
There might be a better manager out there for us, but there are 100s worse picks. I don't feel like we should be experimenting wildly. Arteta needs to change his mentality a little how he approaches some games. He is a very capable manager otherwise.

Look at all the junk out there masquerading as top level managers. No thanks.
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Obviously as rivals we will banter Arsenal and Arteta but Arsenal fans need to stop falling into that trap.

Like you say, which manager will come in and you would say, yep, he will continue this work and we will now win a title?

I would say apart from Pep, no manager. So, I find it strange for Arsenal fans calling out their own manager when he has got you fighting or titles, you dont go get battered away at Pool or City.
 
romufc said:
Obviously as rivals we will banter Arsenal and Arteta but Arsenal fans need to stop falling into that trap.

Like you say, which manager will come in and you would say, yep, he will continue this work and we will now win a title?

I would say apart from Pep, no manager. So, I find it strange for Arsenal fans calling out their own manager when he has got you fighting or titles, you dont go get battered away at Pool or City.
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Yes, other than Pep, there is very little guarantee that any other manager will be better. That's a huge stab in the dark. No way any Arsenal fan should subscribe to that. It might come to a point where it just looks like we cannot get over the last hurdle, but I believe Arteta himself will realize that.

Arteta himself has another level to reach but he needs to do a little internal mindset adjustment. Pool, Newcastle and even the Chelsea game were very winnable games. He needs to look back and see what went wrong there.
 
Bwuk said:
Comparing Arteta with Ferguson :lol:

Remind me what Sir Alex won at Aberdeen before he even came here?
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United fans didnt care what Ferguson wan 6 years prior with Aberdeen.

Man United board ignored the noise, and it paid off.

Arsenal will too ignore the twitter merchants and youtube warriors.
 
ArtetaInInIn said:
United fans didnt care what Ferguson wan 6 years prior with Aberdeen.

Man United board ignored the noise, and it paid off.

Arsenal will too ignore the twitter merchants and youtube warriors.
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The difference is Arteta isn’t and never will be anywhere near the same level of Sir Alex so the pay off won’t be remotely the same. Also what Sir Alex achieved at Aberdeen was much bigger than anything Arteta has ever done, so there was far more reason to keep faith in him.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
The difference is Arteta isn’t and never will be anywhere near the same level of Sir Alex so the pay off won’t be remotely the same. Also what Sir Alex achieved at Aberdeen was much bigger than anything Arteta has ever done, so there was far more reason to keep faith in him.
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ArtetaInInIn said:
United fans didnt care what Ferguson wan 6 years prior with Aberdeen.

Man United board ignored the noise, and it paid off.

Arsenal will too ignore the twitter merchants and youtube warriors.
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Laughable.

Sir Alex won the European Cup with Aberdeen. Arteta has won what exactly?
 
Bwuk said:
Laughable.

Sir Alex won the European Cup with Aberdeen. Arteta has won what exactly?
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It was the Cup Winners Cup, even Arsenal won that cup once, and we are shite in Europe. :angel:

Agree in general though, what SAF did in Scotland was remarkable. I don't think that would give you a free hit 6 years down the line at Utd these days though.

What I would say about Arteta is that he's made progress every season at Arsenal in terms of points totals, so there's always been some sort of progress. It's going to be nigh on impossible to do that this season of course with the start we've had, but bar a major collapse, I don't think that warrants ripping it up and starting again quite yet.

Needs to make more of an impact in the cup competitions though, so will be expecting him to take the Crystal Palace quarter final seriously, even if the league cup is seen as a lesser competition.
 
GoonerBear said:
It was the Cup Winners Cup, even Arsenal won that cup once, and we are shite in Europe. :angel:

Agree in general though, what SAF did in Scotland was remarkable. I don't think that would give you a free hit 6 years down the line at Utd these days though.

What I would say about Arteta is that he's made progress every season at Arsenal in terms of points totals, so there's always been some sort of progress. It's going to be nigh on impossible to do that this season of course with the start we've had, but bar a major collapse, I don't think that warrants ripping it up and starting again quite yet.

Needs to make more of an impact in the cup competitions though, so will be expecting him to take the Crystal Palace quarter final seriously, even if the league cup is seen as a lesser competition.
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Still the last manager to beat Madrid in a European final btw.

The problem with modern day fans in general, is they think 'progress' is some linear thing, like there's some sort of plan which comes in phases with the 'eventual' final phase being winning all the major honours.

This is a fairy tale.
 
Bwuk said:
Laughable.

Sir Alex won the European Cup with Aberdeen. Arteta has won what exactly?
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He has obviously won the perfect manager hair award.

Arteta has done enough to deserve two years more...assuming we still finish in the top 4. It's not easy winning anything of note nowadays. Harder than in the Wenger days, and I still regard Wenger as the vest we have had in recent times.
 
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