Arsenal - 2024/25

oneniltothearsenal

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Arsenal 24/25

On the back of two second place finishes, the last one closer, the hope was with the right signings it might be possible (with luck or sanctions) to finally pip City to the League. I personally don't expect much but hope springs eternal.

But so far, we only have Calafiori, a great signing but not enough. The recent chatter is we bring in Merino but really need a forward I think to have a realistic chance. Right now the starting XI looks something like

---‐--------------------Havertz------------
Martinelli---------------------------------Saka
-‐--------------------Odegaard-----------
---------------Rice‐--------Partey---------
Calafiori --- Gabriel --- Saliba --- White
---------------------------Raya----------------

Key bench is Trossard, Timber, Zinchenko, Jesus and if Merino signs that could be a strong enough squad if minimal injuries and adding a Gyokeres (possibility) or Osimhen (less likely). Looked good enough in the summer friendlies but hard to tell.
 
Great and talented group of players. However, they lack leadership and are too soft. Will win nothing again.

Also a few of their key players are massively overrated, Saka in particular.

Their manager is too soft as well. He seems clueless at times. As things heat up during the campaign he becomes aggitated and loses focus on the important stuff. Maybe he’s learned a lesson but honestly they weren’t even close to winning a trophy last year.

The thing with Arsenal is, they were terrible for so long that I had forgotten how much I despise them.
 
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BetRed said:
Great and talented group of players. However, they lack leadership and are too soft. Will win nothing again.

Also a few of their key players are massively overrated, Saka in particular.

Their manager is too soft as well. He seems clueless at times. As things heat up during the campaign he becomes aggitated and loses focus on the important stuff. Maybe he’s learned a lesson but honestly they weren’t even close to winning a trophy last year.

The thing with Arsenal is, they were terrible for so long that I had forgotten how much I despise them.
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He's going to hire a gang of pickpockets to teach you a lesson. Beware.
 
BetRed said:
Great and talented group of players. However, they lack leadership and are too soft. Will win nothing again.

Also a few of their key players are massively overrated, Saka in particular.

Their manager is too soft as well. He seems clueless at times. As things heat up during the campaign he becomes aggitated and loses focus on the important stuff. Maybe he’s learned a lesson but honestly they weren’t even close to winning a trophy last year.

The thing with Arsenal is, they were terrible for so long that I had forgotten how much I despise them.
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You hide your feelings well. I never woul have guessed the fact you despised us until the very last moment
 
BetRed said:
Maybe he’s learned a lesson but honestly they weren’t even close to winning a trophy last year.
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Taking City all the way to the final game of the season doesn’t count as close?
 
Arriba Saliba said:
Taking City all the way to the final game of the season doesn’t count as close?
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Nah last year was close, it was a proper title push. The year before is overstated, the calendar was weird and City were in the driving seat the whole time in reality. But last year's was good.
 
I’m sure they will be there or thereabouts this season.
I’m not convinced by Havertz or Jesus though even though they have goals from elsewhere in the team. Although expensive Solanke would have been great for them.
 
The Purley King said:
I’m sure they will be there or thereabouts this season.
I’m not convinced by Havertz or Jesus though even though they have goals from elsewhere in the team. Although expensive Solanke would have been great for them.
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Not been impressed with Martinelli for a while either
 
GlasgowCeltic said:
Not been impressed with Martinelli for a while either
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Bit of a concern for me as well. He seems scared of getting injured as well. Little concerned with his trajectory now. I felt he had a very high ceiling but he seems to be injured a fair bit and low on confidence. I didn't expect Trossard to take over his position last year, but credit to him, he took that chamce well overall.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Nah last year was close, it was a proper title push. The year before is overstated, the calendar was weird and City were in the driving seat the whole time in reality. But last year's was good.
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I agree, that run two seasons ago was nice but I never really expected to win. City were always heavy favorites. Last year was different. There were expectations, and they were definitely met.
 
Changeisgood said:
Bit of a concern for me as well. He seems scared of getting injured as well. Little concerned with his trajectory now. I felt he had a very high ceiling but he seems to be injured a fair bit and low on confidence. I didn't expect Trossard to take over his position last year, but credit to him, he took that chamce well overall.
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Martinelli will re-establish himself as Arsenal starting RW this season. I liked what I saw from him in the bits of Arsenal I saw this preseason. I think he's a better player than Trossard in general, and I feel pretty confident he'll show that this season.
 
Has Calafiori played LB for you in pre season or is it a case of fans not wanting to drop Saliba or Gabriel? So they shoehorn him left back
 
P-Nut said:
Has Calafiori played LB for you in pre season or is it a case of fans not wanting to drop Saliba or Gabriel? So they shoehorn him left back
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He played about 5 minutes at LB against lyon and then moved to CB when myles skelly came on. I thought he looked a little slow and out of place, but it was just 5 minutes in a chaotic moment of the match when both teams were making mass subs. He unquestionably looked much better and more comfortable at center back though.

I think this season is arsenal's best chance to win the title. City have lost alvarez who was important for them when halaand was slumping last year. And who knows if KDB winds up leaving. Love arsenal's defensive depth. Midfield depth is great too when Merino comes in. I understand the skepticism about havertz up top. But he had a great second half of the season and seems confident in the system and the position he's playing. I think he's a better version of Firmino. I don't think the squad will be lacking for goals
 
ArtetasHair said:
We were a Son's howler miss right at the end vs City from winning it.
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Ifs and buts. If they scored the game would have ended then and there?

I respect Arsenal, they’re doing well but like i said in my first post. To me, with limited and rather subjective knowledge and opinion, I can’t see them winnign the league. You’re missibg a match winner or a proper leader. Possibly both.

Don’t take what i write too harsh, it’s only my opinion and I could be wrong.
 
Changeisgood said:
I agree, that run two seasons ago was nice but I never really expected to win. City were always heavy favorites. Last year was different. There were expectations, and they were definitely met.
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You crashed out of the cups relatively early and challenged for the title, so at the end of the day have nothing to show for the season.

I guess it depends if you go onto win it this season (which will be a possibility, as the season begins it seems like a 2-horse race between you guys and City), or win a trophy and challenge again for the title, in which case it will have served as a learning curve and a springboard for bigger things, otherwise it will have been a bit of a nothing season, no?
 
WeePat said:
Martinelli will re-establish himself as Arsenal starting RW this season. I liked what I saw from him in the bits of Arsenal I saw this preseason. I think he's a better player than Trossard in general, and I feel pretty confident he'll show that this season.
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He is a better player than Trossard for sure, it just needs to come together. It also didn't help him at the start of the season that we replaced Xhaka with Havertz effectively. We had a very poor balance and he was pretty much isolated. I hope this is his year.
 
BetRed said:
Ifs and buts. If they scored the game would have ended then and there?

I respect Arsenal, they’re doing well but like i said in my first post. To me, with limited and rather subjective knowledge and opinion, I can’t see them winnign the league. You’re missibg a match winner or a proper leader. Possibly both.

Don’t take what i write too harsh, it’s only my opinion and I could be wrong.
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I think we do have some leadership now...i thought the same thing before. It was more evident two seasons ago, we were lacking in that department

But looking at City, would you say they have a ton more leadership? I dont see the Tony Adams, Terry, Ferdinand, VvD, Keane type there really either.
 
Changeisgood said:
He is a better player than Trossard for sure, it just needs to come together. It also didn't help him at the start of the season that we replaced Xhaka with Havertz effectively. We had a very poor balance and he was pretty much isolated. I hope this is his year.
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Yeah. Martinelli is always left on an island because he rarely has anyone overlapping with him on the left side. Sometimes xhaka would. Rice will occasionally. But Zinchenko never adds any width or drags defenders away for Gabi. Zinny just sits in midfield. I think he gets a raw deal from fans expecting more but he gets little help. Unlike Saka who always has ben white running behind and Odegaard always drifts to the right side too.

I think he needs to start over Trossard though unless he's just totally out of form. He didn't finish well against Lyon this weekend. But he created the two corners (i believe) that led to goals. And also created two major chances that were put on target that could've been goals. Havertz has top end speed, but Martinelli is the only attacker that has genuine accelerating pace that makes him a real threat at getting behind a defensive line. the team really needs him to have a good season.
 
He is a player opposing team need to respect when they are pushing us in our half. His speed and ability to take on defenders is kinda crucial to a decent counter attacking mindset.

Yes, I think he is getting a bit of a raw deal in terms of how lopsided we are on the right. I think he will get a bit more support overall from Rice but it's not amazing either. I am curious to see if Calafiori will help him. He seems very good at carrying the ball and releasing, so we will see.
 
I look at their squad now and it’s just so lacking of any excitement outside of Saka and the occasional Odegaard pass. Have to be the most boring “top” team in that sense. 4 CB’s in front of Rice, JDP principles, Martinelli and Havertz as 2 of the 3 attackers. Set piece dominance and defensive solidity.

No question it “works” but feck me it’s a far cry from the Wenger days.
 
Changeisgood said:
I think we do have some leadership now...i thought the same thing before. It was more evident two seasons ago, we were lacking in that department

But looking at City, would you say they have a ton more leadership? I dont see the Tony Adams, Terry, Ferdinand, VvD, Keane type there really either.
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The leadership thing has been done to death, there's different forms it can take, but at City, Ederson, Dias (maybe Stones too to an extent), Rodri for sure, De Bruyne, Silva are all leaders in a certain way. Proven winners, and whether they're vocal or not, they have the capacity to drag their teammates just a little bit further, stabilise the ship, etc. They're a very mature team in that regard.

At Arsenal, I think Saliba might have that profile, Odegaard is a sort of technical leader for sure, but that's about it. A lot of other players that are good at pretending to be leaders though.
 
Changeisgood said:
I think we do have some leadership now...i thought the same thing before. It was more evident two seasons ago, we were lacking in that department

But looking at City, would you say they have a ton more leadership? I dont see the Tony Adams, Terry, Ferdinand, VvD, Keane type there really either.
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Yes I see it more evidentally. They have serial winners. Plus Pep is head above anyone else in the game. Also the leaders now are different. The winner-types of Kdb, Rodri, Dias etc.sre different to the ones tou mwntioned but won the dame or more. Add Haaland as the best no.9 in the game and you have it all.

As I said, There’s something missing with Arsenal in my eyes It’s going to be a big year for Arteta. You should win a trophy this year or he’ll start to lose a very talented group.

In my eyes you would need a new no.9 and a commander in midfield. I’m not sure Declan Rice is that for you.
 
BetRed said:
Great and talented group of players. However, they lack leadership and are too soft. Will win nothing again.

Also a few of their key players are massively overrated, Saka in particular.

Their manager is too soft as well. He seems clueless at times. As things heat up during the campaign he becomes aggitated and loses focus on the important stuff. Maybe he’s learned a lesson but honestly they weren’t even close to winning a trophy last year.

The thing with Arsenal is, they were terrible for so long that I had forgotten how much I despise them.
Click to expand...

Saka is overrated?
 
BetRed said:
Yes I see it more evidentally. They have serial winners. Plus Pep is head above anyone else in the game. Also the leaders now are different. The winner-types of Kdb, Rodri, Dias etc.sre different to the ones tou mwntioned but won the dame or more. Add Haaland as the best no.9 in the game and you have it all.

As I said, There’s something missing with Arsenal in my eyes It’s going to be a big year for Arteta. You should win a trophy this year or he’ll start to lose a very talented group.

In my eyes you would need a new no.9 and a commander in midfield. I’m not sure Declan Rice is that for you.
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I don't see those players particularly as the vocal leaders out there. In fact even our Gabriel is more vocal. What you guys are describing for me are players who have won together and through success have formed their own leadership structure. it has as a basis that they all trust each other. I dont see that much individual leadership at City. Rodri....Walker maybe a bit, but most of the others are fairly diminutive in nature. KdB speaks frankly off the pitch but I don't see a whole lot on the pitch. It is quite a bit clearer for me at Pool who the leader is for example.

What it takes imo is confidence in your teammates to establish that kind of leadership. I think we are almost there in that regard. The players trust each other and their teammates' abilities.

None of this is easy, because we up against the most dominant team in PL history. We do need to win one league in order to get some of that belief as a team.
 
Gene Loblaw said:
Yeah. Martinelli is always left on an island because he rarely has anyone overlapping with him on the left side. Sometimes xhaka would. Rice will occasionally. But Zinchenko never adds any width or drags defenders away for Gabi. Zinny just sits in midfield. I think he gets a raw deal from fans expecting more but he gets little help. Unlike Saka who always has ben white running behind and Odegaard always drifts to the right side too.

I think he needs to start over Trossard though unless he's just totally out of form. He didn't finish well against Lyon this weekend. But he created the two corners (i believe) that led to goals. And also created two major chances that were put on target that could've been goals. Havertz has top end speed, but Martinelli is the only attacker that has genuine accelerating pace that makes him a real threat at getting behind a defensive line. the team really needs him to have a good season.
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I agree. Unless we make a big addition to the forward line, the team has its highest ceiling if we get Martinelli firing.

I think its OK not to have the LB overlap much as long as the striker is one that looks to combine and move (ie, not Nketiah), the left 8 is comfortable going inside, outside, etc, and the left back has the passing skills to spin balls over the top for Martinelli to run onto.

22-23 was great for Martinelli because you had Zinny playing balls behind, Xhaka a very experienced player in that left 8 position, and then Jesus mainly healthy and forging a good link up in the forward line. In comparison, last year was just a mess on the left hand side and it made for a tough season for Martinelli.

-Nketiah played a lot in the fall with Jesus hurt and he is just a terrible combination with Martinelli as he never looks to link up on that side and he stays in the box rather than vacate space.
-We ended up playing a lot of Kiwior and Tomiyasu at LB and those guys not only don't overlap, they don't have the ball playing ability to really release Martinelli into space behind the defense, which takes away one of his best attributes.
-Both Rice and Havertz were learning to play that left 8 role in the system.

This year hopefully we have (1) much better ball playing at LB as it will be Zinny, Calafiori, or Timber (2) better link up play from the CF position as it will be Havertz or Jesus, two players that move and combine really well and (3) better combinations and fluidity from the L8 position which will be Rice or Havertz with more experience in the system or Merino (assuming he comes) who has been playing in that left 8 position for many years at Sociedad.
 
BetRed said:
Yes!

Don’t think he is ”world class”. Don’t think he’s even top three Arsenals most important players.

I rate Odegaard, Saliba and Rice as more important for them.
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Not sure how you came to that conclusion. He's a top 3 right winger in the world who has often been carrying Arsenal on his back. Only Yamal and Salah are better than him in his position.

If anything, Odegaard is the one who's overrated. Way easier to replace than Saka/Saliba/Rice would be. Actually, those 3 couldn't be replaced right now if Arsenal lost them. Odegaard has limited output as well. Too afraid to lose the ball, not enough creativity. Has a few signature moves and that's it. His playstyle and the way he moves is somewhat aesthetically pleasing to it leads to him becoming overrated. I'd argue Arsenal are lacking a creative machine like KDB/Bruno/Trent in order for them to make the next step and for their project to move forward. As soon as they find that player, Odegaard is either replaced or has to find a new role within the team if he wants to keep getting a lot of playtime.
 
Changeisgood said:
I don't see those players particularly as the vocal leaders out there. In fact even our Gabriel is more vocal. What you guys are describing for me are players who have won together and through success have formed their own leadership structure. it has as a basis that they all trust each other. I dont see that much individual leadership at City. Rodri....Walker maybe a bit, but most of the others are fairly diminutive in nature. KdB speaks frankly off the pitch but I don't see a whole lot on the pitch. It is quite a bit clearer for me at Pool who the leader is for example.

What it takes imo is confidence in your teammates to establish that kind of leadership. I think we are almost there in that regard. The players trust each other and their teammates' abilities.

None of this is easy, because we up against the most dominant team in PL history. We do need to win one league in order to get some of that belief as a team.
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Vocal is one part of leadership. Gabriel might be more vocal but he does not walk-the-talk, walk-the-walk like any of thosr.

What matters is winning and at City they have won more In the last decade than all of us other together. That matters. Arteta is more vocal than any of the other managers, I’m still not sure he’s a winner.

You become a winner by winning and Arsenal haven’t won yet. When they make that a habbit, I will gladly grant Gabriels ability to be vocal as key in his leadership. But if you’re a leader at a top club, you should get them to trophies.
 
Rojofiam said:
Not sure how you came to that conclusion. He's a top 3 right winger in the world who has often been carrying Arsenal on his back. Only Yamal and Salah are better than him in his position.

If anything, Odegaard is the one who's overrated. Way easier to replace than Saka/Saliba/Rice would be. Actually, those 3 couldn't be replaced right now if Arsenal lost them. Odegaard has limited output as well. Too afraid to lose the ball, not enough creativity. Has a few signature moves and that's it. His playstyle and the way he moves is somewhat aesthetically pleasing to it leads to him becoming overrated. I'd argue Arsenal are lacking a creative machine like KDB/Bruno/Trent in order for them to make the next step and for their project to move forward. As soon as they find that player, Odegaard is either replaced or has to find a new role within the team if he wants to keep getting a lot of playtime.
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Top three on the right?

He just played a euros final and there were three wingers p(ossibly four) that i would take if we got the chance before him.

I’d rather have Williams, Yamal, Palmer and probably Foden ahead of him.

And before you go right winger and Palmer position and Williams on the left etc. I would take all of them before him on the right.

What had he actually accomplished?
 
BetRed said:
Top three on the right?

He just played a euros final and there were three wingers p(ossibly four) that i would take if we got the chance before him.

I’d rather have Williams, Yamal, Palmer and probably Foden ahead of him.

And before you go right winger and Palmer position and Williams on the left etc. I would take all of them before him on the right.

What had he actually accomplished?
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What do you mean accomplished? It's a team game and he did more than enough to bring a major trophy to Arsenal. It's not his fault they haven't won a big trophy.

I cannot fathom why there's so much importance placed on team achievements when you can just watch the player play and it becomes evident how good they are.

And sorry but Foden is nowhere near Saka. One of the most overrated players I've ever seen. Takes dozens of shots on the edge of the box every game for a side that averages probably 65% possession in 90% of their games and he's seen as some generational talent. All the wingers you listed are miles ahead of him. He's not even a top 10 player in the PL. What he mostly does is receive on the edge of the box, turn, and shoot. That's his biggest quality. The definition of a system player. As soon as the system isn't completely ideal for him to shine, he's a ghost. We saw it with England throughout the Euros. Completely invisible and 0 impact, whilst Saka was one of the best players of the tournament. I said this all before the Euros btw and everyone dismissed it. And then little Foden was the biggest detriment to England second only to Southgate himself :lol:
 
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Eboue said:
But how can you win if you aren't a winner?
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You can’t. And if you have a lot of attempts and still can’t you’re not showing up for the big occassions.

It’s what makes Real Madrid communicado official.

No bullshit, just a short message and then titles.
 
Rojofiam said:
Not sure how you came to that conclusion. He's a top 3 right winger in the world who has often been carrying Arsenal on his back. Only Yamal and Salah are better than him in his position.

If anything, Odegaard is the one who's overrated. Way easier to replace than Saka/Saliba/Rice would be. Actually, those 3 couldn't be replaced right now if Arsenal lost them. Odegaard has limited output as well. Too afraid to lose the ball, not enough creativity. Has a few signature moves and that's it. His playstyle and the way he moves is somewhat aesthetically pleasing to it leads to him becoming overrated. I'd argue Arsenal are lacking a creative machine like KDB/Bruno/Trent in order for them to make the next step and for their project to move forward. As soon as they find that player, Odegaard is either replaced or has to find a new role within the team if he wants to keep getting a lot of playtime.
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Odegaard doesn't have enough creativity?

https://fbref.com/en/players/79300479/Martin-Odegaard

The guys attacking stats are off the charts. He's probably our only world class attacking player. Saka on the borderline. Not enough output? He's got 40 g/a in the past two seasons in the prem.. what more output do you need. For context Bruno has 34, Trent 18, KDB 37 (less minutes).. All whilst leading our press all game.

What an absurd take.
 
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Calafiori is the only change in the squad, and i only heard his name first time in euros, so cant tell how much he is going to improve them.
Their owners been doing good splashing the cash lately, thought they need more to kick on from last season and overtake city.
 
BetRed said:
Vocal is one part of leadership. Gabriel might be more vocal but he does not walk-the-talk, walk-the-walk like any of thosr.

What matters is winning and at City they have won more In the last decade than all of us other together. That matters. Arteta is more vocal than any of the other managers, I’m still not sure he’s a winner.

You become a winner by winning and Arsenal haven’t won yet. When they make that a habbit, I will gladly grant Gabriels ability to be vocal as key in his leadership. But if you’re a leader at a top club, you should get them to trophies.
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Ok. I think you might be placing too much importance on winning as part of the leadership equation. You can be a leader and still lose. VvD didnt become a poor leader in the last two years because Pool is not winning the league. And that would mean that only one team in the league has leadership. Even the bottom teams have leadership.

Gabriel is a leader because of what he is doing on the pitch. Winning another trophy would help cement things a little more but it is certainly not the only determinant.
 
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