Arsenal 2020/21 - General Discussion

RashyForPM said:
I didn’t say that. Those were just examples. If you want more blatant delusion, think something like AFTV.
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Do you think there is any chance you reconsider and praise Arsenal and Arteta during the season though ? They could really use it in these tough times.

Anyway, Aouar rumors are gaining traction. They want 60M, we're supposedly about to offer 40M+bonus soon which they will 100% reject. I guess a deal will be done at 45/48 + bonuses since we seem to be the only club fully in on him. Only 2 weeks to go...
 
Wenger was a 100m manager with a 50m budget, while Arteta is a 25m manager with a 50m budget.

And what I mean buy that is that Wenger had his way that he wanted to play, but didn't have the players to do it. And that really showed up in the big matches. They were short track bullies, but couldn't do it when it mattered most. But that wasn't Wengers fault. Give him a budget, and he would have provided results...

Arteta on the other hand seems to know exactly what he's getting into. a 5 man defense is the last thing he wants to do. He wants to play a free flowing 4-3-3 but he just doesn't have the team to do it. So he has recognized this and resorted to the 3-4-3. Not because it's his preferred formation, but because it's the only formation that will work with Arsenal because their defense is so poor. And it may work for some games. But this is not the Arsenal that i grew to hate. The Arsenal that I know would rather look good and lose than look bad and win. This Arsenal team is a shadow of the Wenger teams and will be lucky to finish in the top 6...
 
RashyForPM said:
Apologies for personally calling you out Donaldo, but it looks to me that you are laughing off any possible suggestion that Kane can be better than Aubameyang. I think that proves me right.
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Kane being a better player than Auba would prove you right, not my green smiley.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
Wenger was a 100m manager with a 50m budget, while Arteta is a 25m manager with a 50m budget.

And what I mean buy that is that Wenger had his way that he wanted to play, but didn't have the players to do it. And that really showed up in the big matches. They were short track bullies, but couldn't do it when it mattered most. But that wasn't Wengers fault. Give him a budget, and he would have provided results...

Arteta on the other hand seems to know exactly what he's getting into. a 5 man defense is the last thing he wants to do. He wants to play a free flowing 4-3-3 but he just doesn't have the team to do it. So he has recognized this and resorted to the 3-4-3. Not because it's his preferred formation, but because it's the only formation that will work with Arsenal because their defense is so poor. And it may work for some games. But this is not the Arsenal that i grew to hate. The Arsenal that I know would rather look good and lose than look bad and win. This Arsenal team is a shadow of the Wenger teams and will be lucky to finish in the top 6...
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So this Arsenal team is even worse than the Wenger teams that lost 6-0 to Chelsea and 8-2 to United among several other humiliations and went for almost a decade without a trophy? And which 6 teams do you reckon will finish above Arsenal this season?
 
They look like things are going in the right direction, which is disappointing for AFTV viewers. Then again, Arsenal's boom/bust is the stuff of legend.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
Wenger was a 100m manager with a 50m budget, while Arteta is a 25m manager with a 50m budget.

And what I mean buy that is that Wenger had his way that he wanted to play, but didn't have the players to do it. And that really showed up in the big matches. They were short track bullies, but couldn't do it when it mattered most. But that wasn't Wengers fault. Give him a budget, and he would have provided results...

Arteta on the other hand seems to know exactly what he's getting into. a 5 man defense is the last thing he wants to do. He wants to play a free flowing 4-3-3 but he just doesn't have the team to do it. So he has recognized this and resorted to the 3-4-3. Not because it's his preferred formation, but because it's the only formation that will work with Arsenal because their defense is so poor. And it may work for some games. But this is not the Arsenal that i grew to hate. The Arsenal that I know would rather look good and lose than look bad and win. This Arsenal team is a shadow of the Wenger teams and will be lucky to finish in the top 6...
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Their problem wasn't just players and budgets...it was attitude, culture and lack of proper team leadership. Giving Wenger $500 million would not have fixed that issue as they would have just assembled an expensive squad of players who still lost games against the top sides.
 
Che Guevara said:
So this Arsenal team is even worse than the Wenger teams that lost 6-0 to Chelsea and 8-2 to United among several other humiliations and went for almost a decade without a trophy? And which 6 teams do you reckon will finish above Arsenal this season?
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Trying times indeed. There was some sort of malaise happening within the club during that time.

I’m so glad Wenger finished with a trophy, but he really did struggle with budgetary issues and the way the game was moving on.

This is the first time I’m feeling like we’ll be able to mix it up a bit in that top six, and I’ll be even more confident (is that delusion on here?) if we do a bit more in the transfer market.

But you’re right, I think it’s acceptable to consider us in the conversation for top six at least.
 
Lucas Torreira joining Atletico Madrid on 1 year loan.

Was a big fan of him in his first season but then Emery for some reason was playing him higher up the pitch which wasn't his forte then dropped him. Arteta obviously dosen't see him as part of the plans.

Guess this opens up space for Tomas Partey to move to Arsenal eventually so could be good all round deal for both parties.
 
FootballHQ said:
Lucas Torreira joining Atletico Madrid on 1 year loan.

Was a big fan of him in his first season but then Emery for some reason was playing him higher up the pitch which wasn't his forte then dropped him. Arteta obviously dosen't see him as part of the plans.

Guess this opens up space for Tomas Partey to move to Arsenal eventually so could be good all round deal for both parties.
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Some reports saying Arsenal rejected the deal. Don't think its a done deal.

Not sure what happened to him. He was quality first half of 2018-19 but then as you said Emery played him as a no 10 and he wasn't great. He doesn't have the physicality to play a free role in the premier league. His strength seems to be sitting infront of the defense and I don't think Arteta wants that but he would excel with Simeone. He might have not adapted well to life in London and that might be an issue as well.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
Wenger was a 100m manager with a 50m budget, while Arteta is a 25m manager with a 50m budget.

And what I mean buy that is that Wenger had his way that he wanted to play, but didn't have the players to do it. And that really showed up in the big matches. They were short track bullies, but couldn't do it when it mattered most. But that wasn't Wengers fault. Give him a budget, and he would have provided results...

Arteta on the other hand seems to know exactly what he's getting into. a 5 man defense is the last thing he wants to do. He wants to play a free flowing 4-3-3 but he just doesn't have the team to do it. So he has recognized this and resorted to the 3-4-3. Not because it's his preferred formation, but because it's the only formation that will work with Arsenal because their defense is so poor. And it may work for some games. But this is not the Arsenal that i grew to hate. The Arsenal that I know would rather look good and lose than look bad and win. This Arsenal team is a shadow of the Wenger teams and will be lucky to finish in the top 6...
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I see where you're coming from. We haven't had that fear factor since pre 2006. However transitioning from the bruise free footy our club has been playing for the last 14 years is a welcome change. It just doesn't work anymore and we have to adapt to the current state of the game.

One of my biggest pet peeves over the last decade has been our inability to close down opposition and tactically foul when the opponent transitions from midfield into the final third.

I get the feeling that this year is going to throw out some really strange games and results. So I'll reserve judgement until Christmas and see where we are at then.

I do 100% agree that Arteta would prefer to play a 4-3-3 though.
 
FootballHQ said:
Lucas Torreira joining Atletico Madrid on 1 year loan.

Was a big fan of him in his first season but then Emery for some reason was playing him higher up the pitch which wasn't his forte then dropped him. Arteta obviously dosen't see him as part of the plans.

Guess this opens up space for Tomas Partey to move to Arsenal eventually so could be good all round deal for both parties.
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If Arsenal get Partey they will have a much more solid spine. I could see them being one of the favourites for at least top four.
 
where will Partey and Aouar fit in the current team? I don't see we will get both unless Arteta change his mind and switch back to 433 which conceded lots of goals last season.
 
Arteta is doing a good job at Arsenal but he's certainly not looking like a mini Pep (time will tell if that's more personnel or him).

Watching his sides it looks like he's learned more from playing under Moyes and McLeish than he has coaching under Pep.
 
To me, On paper, a team of;

Leno

Bellerin saliba gabriel Tierney


Willian Auba Pepe

Looks a great mix of ability potential and experience.

However the midfield options of torreira, xhaka, cellabos, guendozi, elneny Leave them wanting.

Games are won and lost in midfield. See them struggling to dent the top 6 in the longrun this year
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
where will Partey and Aouar fit in the current team? I don't see we will get both unless Arteta change his mind and switch back to 433 which conceded lots of goals last season.
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I guess it would look like this :

Auba - Laca - Pepe/Willian

Aouar
Xhaka Partey

Ceballos gets dropped and rotated alongside Saka.
 
The way he has been setting up Arsenal he seems More Mini Mou than Pep's Pup .

It would be interesting to see whether he evolves once he signs more player's or stick to this current version of Arsenal.
 
gajender said:
The way he has been setting up Arsenal he seems More Mini Mou than Pep's Pup .

It would be interesting to see whether he evolves once he signs more player's or stick to this current version of Arsenal.
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Think he making the best of what he has at his disposal. The way he has us playing out the back is definitely more Pep but the way he has defending is more Mou. Maybe he's one of those managers who can actually play multiple brands of football effectively.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
where will Partey and Aouar fit in the current team? I don't see we will get both unless Arteta change his mind and switch back to 433 which conceded lots of goals last season.
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I doubt we get both but I don't see the problem fitting them into the team. If its a 3-4-3 then they could play CM together (Aouar played much of 18-19 in a double pivot and did really well in that role) or if its 4-3-3 then I would expect our best starting CM trio to be Partey-Ceballos-Aouar, with Xhaka also rotating into that group quite a lot.

My expectation is that Arteta will stick with 3-4-3 for a while, at least until we get clear of this very hard run of initial fixtures that includes matches at Liverpool, at City, and at United. But I think he wants to move back to a four man backline eventually. We conceded a lot of goals in that setup but there should are numerous reasons to hope for better defensive solidity with a four man defense this year - better CB options that hopefully produces a reliable pairing, a stronger defensive LB in Tierney than the options we cycled through last spring/winter, and better defensive midfield play as well if we get Partey.
 
Back to their bad old ways tonight.

Still think they'll do well to finish top 4, see who they sign in next week. Surprised someone as incredibly average as Elneny has come out of nowhere to be automatic starter again.
 
AshRK said:
Their performance for the whole match was pathetic.
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They were better when they decided to actually push up the pitch and actually get on the ball and try get passes in behind Liverpool in second half but they were lacking quite a bit tonight

First half performance was abysmal. Shitting themselves what Liverpool could do instead of trying to put some pressure after them
 
Passing out from the back with Elneny and Xhaka in midfield is foolish to say the least.
 
Wayne's World said:
They were better when they decided to actually push up the pitch and actually get on the ball and try get passes in behind Liverpool in second half but they were lacking quite a bit tonight

First half performance was abysmal. Shitting themselves what Liverpool could do instead of trying to put some pressure after them
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Cebalos single handedly made them look like an actual football side.
 
Arsenal fans will tell you Aubamayeng is the best striker in the league. So much so he’s playing on the wing. :confused:
 
Away at Anfield is probably the toughest fixture in the world at the moment so not too disheartened. The game did highlight how much we need some more quality in central midfield, you'd expect Aouar or Partey to cope better with the pressure than Xhaka/Elneny. I do think we'll compete for top 4 given Chelsea and United's problems.
 
The lineup was a bit too cautious but managed to hold it down and survive Liverpool's onslaught. Our goal was a gift, Leno weak hand is annoying but Lacazette's chances........
Before a ball is kicked you know you're going to get pummeled at Anfield, you get not only one but TWO 1v1 chances and you feck up both. That cannot happen, you'll never win these games with this kind of mistakes.
99% of our goals the last few months has been ball over the top to Auba and tonight suddenly we wait 90min to try it ? :confused:

It's a good sign that we come out of this game extremely frustrated not to get a point instead of the game being over at half-time.
Aouar, Partey and a new #9 next summer and we'll be back challenging for Top 4.
 
I think their football is quite dull under Arteta. Sure some structure and organisation was needed but he’s getting a bit of a free ride because he was Pep’s assistant and because of Aubameyang.
 
I have no idea why Arteta has Aubameyang playing on the wing to accommodate Lack-of-threat up the middle.
 
Liverpool is going to dominate every team in the league apart from City. I wouldn't really take much from this game. Arsenal was outplayed, yes, but I think most teams are going to face this; Liverpool is just that much better than everyone else. Don't let the knockout by Atletico last season fool you, they are as good as Bayern Munich in every way.

For Arsenal, it is about being able to beat the other teams; so long as they can do that, they are fine.

He has done well with them, so I don't get some people saying he has got away with it. He won the FA Cup in his first partial season, won the community shield (better than losing), has improved their defence and their results. He has done a lot better than I was expecting, to be honest.
 
I don't really see what has improved under Arteta. Arsenal's metrics are genuinely mid-table.



They have gone from a +5 net shots per game side under Wenger to now -4 under Arteta. They were 14th in shots taken last season and now down to 18th this season. I suspect Aubameyang being a good finisher is papering over the cracks somewhat but this is really worrying for them.
 
It's pretty funny how all the other top teams are experiencing crazy results, yet there's Arsenal quietly plodding along while grinding wins. Usually it'd be Arsenal on the end of these drubbings.

Arteta's doing a good job of making Arsenal harder to beat. I think what they needed was to get rid of the stigma of them being a soft team that wilts under pressure, though whether they can keep up the results remains to be seen. It doesn't help that their owners are terrible either.
 
Pagh Wraith said:
I don't really see what has improved under Arteta. Arsenal's metrics are genuinely mid-table.



They have gone from a +5 net shots per game side under Wenger to now -4 under Arteta. They were 14th in shots taken last season and now down to 18th this season. I suspect Aubameyang being a good finisher is papering over the cracks somewhat but this is really worrying for them.
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Is that really 91 more shots against than for under Arteta?
 
Pagh Wraith said:
I don't really see what has improved under Arteta. Arsenal's metrics are genuinely mid-table.

They have gone from a +5 net shots per game side under Wenger to now -4 under Arteta. They were 14th in shots taken last season and now down to 18th this season. I suspect Aubameyang being a good finisher is papering over the cracks somewhat but this is really worrying for them.
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Is shots taken alone a good metric to judge a team on? When it comes to shots on target we're 10th in the table this season. No doubt we aren't creating as much as we were during the Wenger days but that's more down to the squad we have and with the ins and outs over the last 2 years since Wenger left. Before Arteta our average goals scored was 1.33 and its gone up to 1.71 since he arrived whilst goals conceded dropped from 1.5 to 1. Our ppg over the last 19 games is 1.9 which is top 4 form.

It's obvious that we need a creative midfielder to help us play more free-flowing football. But players like Pepe and Saka should step up and create more this season.
 
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Dancfc said:
Is that really 91 more shots against than for under Arteta?
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Yes, -75 for the remainder of 2019/20 after he took over and -16 so far this season.

trims said:
Is shots taken alone a good metric to judge a team on? When it comes to shots on target we're 10th in the table this season. No doubt we aren't creating as much as we were during the Wenger days but that's more down to the squad we have and with the ins and outs over the last 2 years since Wenger left. Before Arteta our average goals scored was 1.33 and its gone up to 1.71 since he arrived whilst goals conceded dropped from 1.5 to 1. Our ppg over the last 19 games is 1.9 which is top 4 form.

It's obvious that we need a creative midfielder to help us play more free-flowing football. But players like Pepe and Saka should step up and create more this season.
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It's not the be-all and end-all but there is very strong correlation (obviously!) between shots and goals. Shots on target is better and expected goals even more so. But it's still astonishing for a team such as Arsenal to have a negative shot differential. The other two are negative as well.
 
Bojan11 said:


Disgusting.
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That's pretty shit. It's a part time job, how much does it actually cost them compared to the millions they spend elsewhere? After 27 years at the club....

Nice way to avoid negative press too, announcing it on transfer deadline day.
 
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