Argentina is economically stable? Not something I associate with them.
Argentina Thread : Milei wants NATO security cooperation
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
Geopolitically, seems polar opposite to Trump though
Which is why they'll need all the luck they can get
Clearly not.
45% live in poverty and 51.7% require some form of government handout to make ends meet.
That clearly is a problem, but the bigger problem is that the other candidate represents the option that increased those handouts x11 over the last 20 years.
You can say they are very generous or think they are the root of the problem, as 55% of Argentinians did.
I don't disagree with this, just trying to convey the rationale behind voting for something else, anything else, and this was the alternative option presented to them.
Handout is a very loaded way of describing welfare, IMO.
To be fair removing overpaid hurdle builders isn't necessarily a bad thing if you want to rebuild.
What was that Argentinian cat’s name who used to post on here? Pissing me off that I can’t remember.
He's an anarcho-capitalist. He's ideologically bound to believe that literally anything that isn't the army and the police are overpaid hurdle builders.
It's the dumbest ideology.
Not looking good for Argentina. My previous project was for a company based in Argentina, about 80% of the way through they cancelled all contracts and orders placed in USD or Euros and tried to swap them to Chinese yuan. Not a popular move 
We’re just masochists really, having a good old time of it
Well, we had just had someone asking where 64% came from and someone else replying it could involve various definitions.
I'd say "welfare" is a very unloaded term. Isn't healthcare an integral part of welfare? What I was describing was 51.7% needing government money to make ends meet. Call it handout or subsidy for all I care but "welfare" it is not and when it has been steadily and consistently rising for two decades it is fair (not loaded) to conclude it is designed as a handout and a means to create dependence. No plan or willingness to turn it around, not from the state.
If you mean I'm dissing those receiving them do the maths, many of those receiving them are saying it's not what they want to look forward to (which is pretty fecking brave to be fair because I'm not seeing any solution to it that doesn't involve a lot of pain, I won't say risk because there's no probability involved, it's a certainty).
Good summary. At first sight this is an absolutely terrible decision by any standard, that somehow gets more understandable as you get some context on today's Argentina. Thing is, when these kind of awful choices accumulate globally, the aftermath of the UK, US, and Brazil's experiences should be considered too. And those cases ended with impoverished economies, blatant corruption, regressions in civil liberties, disregard of judiciary and democratic institutions and, of course, millions dying due to criminal mismanagement of a crisis.
If this dude implemented his entire agenda you are simply exchanging government "handouts" and a chronically shit economy for mass starvation and breakdown of the social order which will be contained through slaughter. It's the same every single time. Groups will be chosen to benefit, groups will be chosen for the camps and then eventually he will be ousted in a bloody coup.
That’s a hell of a take. Isn’t it more likely just a symptom of an economy that’s been flatlining for two decades with increasing unemployment leading to more and more people needing state support to survive?
The broken economy is the problem not the consequences it causes.
His VP seems absolutely bat shit.
Thought that was his mom
It's actually his third Mastiff.
Marcos Deto.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Villarruel
Shes a big fan of military junta and targeted killings of political oppponents.
That’s right, a bit of an odd duck.
Marcos was a lot of fun but the Messi v Ronaldo thread destroyed him. He was never the same again.
And why is the economy flatlining?
Argentina is one of the countries most blessed with natural resources in the entire world. We've gone through a massive commodity boom, why does it flatline? They were the country of origin of Latin America's most valuable business in 2021, one that started about 20 years ago and moved to Uruguay over the last decade. They have also produced the most unicorns in Latam behind Brazil.
Please explain to me why it is flatlining and making it impossible for people to live off the fruit of their labour and not government subsidies.
The worst part is their choice was more of that or a guy who openly admitted he takes counsel from the spirit of his dead dog. Imagine how fecking hopeless you have to be to choose the latter simply because you know for a fact the other option doesn't work.
You just needed to walk around Buenos Aires and see that all the arguments they put forward on their propaganda were various forms of "Milei will cut your subsidies" scaremongering. Valid? Yes, but his equally valid argument was "do you want to spend your entire life conditioned by these wankers and their subsidies?" Those under 30 almost invariably answered NO and it's not just because of Tik Tok and whatnot, it's a fair point that he makes.
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It’s just sad to see how human beings have never developed. If anything, we are regressing.
When societies face challenges, they vote for the most extreme people who have proven time and time again, they don’t have any solutions.
For such an advanced species, we are very stupid.
When societies face challenges, they vote for the most extreme people who have proven time and time again, they don’t have any solutions.
For such an advanced species, we are very stupid.
There’s a lesson here for western governments, if you continually fail to provide economic solutions for young people, someone will come along and persuade young people that government is the cause of their problems, not the solution to them.
For the sake of the Argentine people, I wish this guy nothing but good fortune and success.
For the sake of the Argentine people, I wish this guy nothing but good fortune and success.
Can someone explain Peronism? Anything I look it up, it's always big word salads.
I honestly don't wish him success, since that would entail the complete dismantling of the Argentinian state. A successful ancap state is a nightmare for the vast majority of people.
Peronism = everyone must drink Peroni
People still think Austrian economics works?
Perón was a military dictator akin to fascistic movements of the late 30s - early 40s, who nevertheless made important deals with the unions at the time to implement significant social reform in a country that barely had any of that before. That made him a politically electable figure that transcended the typical definitions of left and right at the time, just like the party he founded ("Partido Justicialista") which is considered the home of Peronismo.
Several decades later, Peronismo still isn't attached to a particular ideology or mindset other than staying in power. It's wide enough to contain trickle down privatizers like Menem and state central planning economy fans like the Kirchners. And the country's politics are still esentially divided between Peronistas and Antiperonistas to this day.
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That's it in a nutshell and it isn't particularly hard to make the case either, not when your courts find a former President and leader of the incumbent*** party guilty of scamming half a billion euros from the government. And that's just the one case focused on infrastructure tenders (roads, etc).
***the upside is that despite the judiciary being accused of operating for them, it clearly didn't here
A wrong decision isn't any less wrong just because it was made in desperation. I still think democracy is the best form of government but it can also be pretty terrifying in tough times.
A salad is an appropriate analogy. You could call it populism, but populists usually rise and fall embracing a narrative. In peronism there's no ideology, just the singular objective of perpetuating yourself and your circle in power.
Milei would tell you the Peronistas are woke, but Perón himself did as much as he could to help the Nazis (most of them found refuge in his Argentina, inc Mengele).
When they are not in power their actions are best defined as "the worse the better". They will actively pursue every avenue that will sink the country deeper in the shitter so they can present themselves as saviours.
When they get in power, they artificially and temporarily get the country out of the shitter. The means also being a salad: privatising public enterprises, printing money, creating all sorts of wealth transfer mechanisms, fiddling with exchange rates, expanding public works, defaulting on government debt, nationalising previously privatised utilities and heavily subsidising them. Throughout all that they of course fill their pockets and those of their friends and allies (inc union leaders who live in haciendas like that of Pablo Escobar in Narcos). They also occasionally do stuff like nationalising football TV rights so everyone can watch the league for free, no Sky subscription needed... inevitably no good football either. That's why I say occasionally, they aren't stupid, they use it to good effect at a time of electoral need and unwind it before they destroy the clubs. But yeah, that's the sort of thing anyone investing in Argentina has to put up with regularly and therefore few actually do it.
It's the most deeply entrenched and pervasive political apparatus you will ever encounter and whoever is at the helm is simply the most appropriate personality and discourse for the times.
Didn't he say that he would get rid of the central bank too? We will see how long the standing down will last.
In the end will do what all this argentinians dipsheets politicians always do.
1 - Privatize everything they can at a low price
2 - Steal as much money as they can on the transaction
3 - Next president will nationalize whatever they can with argentinian tax payers to a high price
4 - Steal as much money with the nationalization transaction
5 - Pay the fines with argentinian taxpayers that 10 years later a judge will mandate to pay because the nationalization was harmful for whichever big corp bought it when privatized years back
6 - Rinse and repeat
He is no different and I rather prefer that he is like any other past argentinian president, than do what he said that he would do. Because if so, argentina would be in big trouble
1 - Privatize everything they can at a low price
2 - Steal as much money as they can on the transaction
3 - Next president will nationalize whatever they can with argentinian tax payers to a high price
4 - Steal as much money with the nationalization transaction
5 - Pay the fines with argentinian taxpayers that 10 years later a judge will mandate to pay because the nationalization was harmful for whichever big corp bought it when privatized years back
6 - Rinse and repeat
He is no different and I rather prefer that he is like any other past argentinian president, than do what he said that he would do. Because if so, argentina would be in big trouble
He's apparently going to abolish the central bank. Argentina are going to be completely screwed if he manages it.
Argentina are going to be completely screwed if he manages it. Yep seems so. Tbh it wouldn’t be surprising if getting rid of the central banks in reality means a paint job and changing the name.
Give the man a chance.
I'd give him a run of ten games