"I'm sick of it, Robbie"
Are we slowly turning into another Arsenal?
- Thread starter Mindhunter
- Start date
Yeah and that club is a shitshow, I know.
But I think we are discussing here how United as a club evolves and moves into a different category of clubs. And I think that United has left the elite category and moved down to the bracket below, where you can also find Arsenal. And the way you argue against that just proves to me that you are a fan who has accepted that fall, but wants at least to be the best of that category. That is understandable and you have good arguments, but it still means for me that United are just a better Arsenal at the moment, but not an elite club anymore.
In the end we all love our clubs, no matter what happens, but we sometimes need to take a step back and realize what kind of club we are supporting. It can be hard to accept what you see, but you can just hope that things will get better.
Fans are already conned into believing that getting top 4 is an achievement and you think we're turning into Arsenal?
We've already reached that level years ago.
We've already reached that level years ago.
We are already there. At least Arsenal win trophies every now and then.
We're worse considering the amount of money we've spent on players and our outdated ideals on and off the pitch. Doesn't look like anything will be changing in the foreseeable either.
Im in fam! Let`s go bluds!
We're not Arsenal, we're even worse. When you spend like PSG and win nothing for 4 years, expecting to turn into 5, you are worse than Arsenal, who at least won the FA Cup and Community Shield in the same frame of time.
Not quite there yet, but perilously close. Our larger fanbase and media coverage keeps us a bit more relevant IMO. I also think we've been better on the transfer market the last couple of years than they have.
But the ownership/board style is very similar. Super rich American don't rock the boat type of owners who are content with qualifying to the CL every year and keep their revenue stream steady.
Arsenal's manager does have better hair than Ole though.
But the ownership/board style is very similar. Super rich American don't rock the boat type of owners who are content with qualifying to the CL every year and keep their revenue stream steady.
Arsenal's manager does have better hair than Ole though.
So if we win the fa cup and finish 4th this season are we building a winning mentality?
You install winning mentality to this team by letting them know nothing but the absolute best is allowed. We’ve been here before with Mourinho imo. Most of this players don’t understand that we must be competing with Liverpool and City, if they did we wouldn’t have been spanked by one of them 0:5. The management is also guilty of this same problem. Progress? What fecking progress? You build a team to win the league, if they win something on the way it’s a plus. What winning mentality did we install by winning the fa cup with LVG? Europa league with Mourinho? Instead those small achievements were used to brag by said managers like so big successes while missing the big picture.
Would you be happy with us winning the league cup or Europa league? While our domestic arch rivals are winning the big trophies and leaving us behind?
Yes it looks like we need to make our definitions clear. For me an elite club is regularly winning national league titles and able to challenge for international cups, occasionally winning one. Winning titles every year is not realistic given there is tight competition.
United does not fulfill that, Arsenal does not fulfill that, but at least both sometimes reach a cup final, while mostly losing them in recent years. Therefore for me they are in the same bracket.
But I will acknowledge that United is in a much better position to return to the absolute elite given the economical power and current squad quality. Nonetheless it is up to United to make that step, and I see no indication that the club is doing that at the moment. Ole is still in charge and players who deliver subpar performances are playing every game, this is not how to return to the top.
Not really because ultimately we're in the market for top players. Both financially and in being able to attract them. Arsenal are not at the same table. It means we have the possibility to be a much better side than we are whereas they have to play the long game.
However you have to be able to translate this to results and this is the problem. Whether it's management, coaching, the footballing structure that's at fault - it's hard to pinpoint. Probably a combination. But I don't think you can say we are content otherwise why throw sums at these players? There is a difference between incompetent and being content. We are providing the resources to do well but we seem to have a real problem with decision making and acumen.
However you have to be able to translate this to results and this is the problem. Whether it's management, coaching, the footballing structure that's at fault - it's hard to pinpoint. Probably a combination. But I don't think you can say we are content otherwise why throw sums at these players? There is a difference between incompetent and being content. We are providing the resources to do well but we seem to have a real problem with decision making and acumen.
We are more like Liverpool of old, I think.
Wallowing in nostalgia and sentiment, clinging onto the boot room mentality and reminiscing about the good old days, as a couple of decades slip by before the next League title comes along....
Wallowing in nostalgia and sentiment, clinging onto the boot room mentality and reminiscing about the good old days, as a couple of decades slip by before the next League title comes along....
Somebody literally said maybe we could bring Wenger in. So yeah.
Slowly? We became them. Only difference is that we have better team
If you don't think City will be up there come May you're having a mare.
The season has barely started, our position isn't a crisis..... Yet
We already are mate.
Yes, you are probably right. My thinking wasn't nostalgia based, but more to do with the fact you can win the Europa Cup (as Utd. nearly did) by failing in the more prestigious tournament, so its sort of a Cup for losers.... having said that, winning the Europa gets you into the CL (if you need it, as Villareal did) so in that respect it can be worth more than an FA Cup victory...
I bet if a poll were taken (FA Cup vs Europa) it would be much like the new James Bond Film - older people would be for tradition (& they are mostly hating on 007), younger people would embrace the 'new ideas' and favour the Europa - so also a bit like Brexit too (lol).
I bet that's what Arsenal fans were telling themselves as well, finishing 4th and winning Fa Cup every season must have been great feeling.
Why don't they make 4 premier League trophys: a really big one, then a smaller one, a quite small one and a tiny one. Then all the top-four teams would get something for the trophy cabinet.
A strange extrapolation from my post...confusing but the caf is always amusing.
City have started poorly for them, I have zero doubts they will be 1st or 2nd but why are you using City's start as a barometer? Only thing that matters is the gap to 1st place whether it's Chelsea or Burnley up there.
We are more like Liverpool of old, I think.
Wallowing in nostalgia and sentiment, clinging onto the boot room mentality and reminiscing about the good old days, as a couple of decades slip by before the next League title comes along....
Don't forget the white suits!
"We're just a rich West Brom" ©
This thread should come with a government health warning.
The content is just so... urgh.
The content is just so... urgh.
Moyes turned us into Everton overnight and now we've crawled up to Wenger's Arsenal from 2009 onwards)
Just give it a couple more years for the Saudi money to kick in. We'll be wondering if we have turned into Westham or Everton.
Poch or Rodgers.
Let’s see how many decades until we find our Klopp.
Manchester United will linger around top 4 if it still led this same way for couple more years, until Newcastle money kicks in, and then will slowly fade into Arsenal-like obscurity of never being good enough to compete for Premier league.
The only thing holding United close to City, Chelsea and Liverpool is the fact that we can invest more than some of them, or at a comparable rate to others.
Of course, technically United is just a top class manager away from being European powerhouse again, but it's mostly been like that ever since Fergie. It becomes a problem when picking up wrong manager becomes the norm.
So yes, we can count on comfortably being top four club, perhaps fighting for title sometimes, until Newcastle lay their foundations or some other competitive owner shows up.
Arsenal were also at certain points just a manager away from becoming contenders again, but the fact they never went for that manager turned them into a side that needs a lot more than just a manager. Hopefully we never become that.
The only thing holding United close to City, Chelsea and Liverpool is the fact that we can invest more than some of them, or at a comparable rate to others.
Of course, technically United is just a top class manager away from being European powerhouse again, but it's mostly been like that ever since Fergie. It becomes a problem when picking up wrong manager becomes the norm.
So yes, we can count on comfortably being top four club, perhaps fighting for title sometimes, until Newcastle lay their foundations or some other competitive owner shows up.
Arsenal were also at certain points just a manager away from becoming contenders again, but the fact they never went for that manager turned them into a side that needs a lot more than just a manager. Hopefully we never become that.
What a small take
Slowly? Turning?
Can't argue against that.
Not slowly...
Absolutely. Almost a decade since we had a title challenge and firmly aim for top 4
Slowly ?
Don't get me wrong. I prefer the FA Cup as a competition, but the Europa League is the bigger trophy to win in the modern day. Isn't winning the FA Cup entry to the Europa League as well (if you haven't qualified via league position), is definitely was at one point as Wigan took part!?
I agree with you about the hierarchy overall, but I do think the ranking of a Europa League can very much depend on the means by which you find yourself in it - it's a bit silly I know but I have a different perception depending on whether you're in it from the off versus dropping into it via a failed CL campaign. Obviously there were other variables but for me personally at least I enjoyed Sarri's EL win much much more than the one in 2013.
Believe as well you're correct that the FA cup winner gets automatic EL qualification, and if the winner has already qualified but the loser hasn't it goes to the runner-up.
Yes, with a bit more money, in few years also the top 4 going to be prohibitive
Feels like it is time for the Glazers to sell. The stadium looks knackered, the management structure is messy and disconnected, the team is way out of balance, etc etc. The club is badly run and is stagnating. "IT'S TIME FOR AN OVERHAUL".