Are we really this bad?

Yes we are. When we have 3 different managers looking totally clueless with our squad, you know theres a real problem there.
 
Hammondo said:
Which players? I am not saying we don't, just think you might be overeating some.
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I'm not saying they are great players.

I am saying they are individually more talented than most of the players on these teams we've been losing to. Yet, for the reasons I outlined, they are collectively worse.
 
Someone said:
Not good enough is what got us 6th last year, but the complete collapse is something else.
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Ye fair enough, but at least for the last quarter of last season we had collapsed as well. I agree mentality is pathetic, and we lack any leaders, but I don't even think saf would be successful with this lineup.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
I'm not saying they are great players.

I am saying they are individually more talented than most of the players on these teams we've been losing to. Yet, for the reasons I outlined, they are collectively worse.
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Maybe.
 
Yes. We have players who are good technically and we have players who are physical.. unfortunately we have none who are both.
 
Who in the medium / long term is worth keeping from our current squad, excluding youth?

I'd say: Malacia, Varane, Martinez, Sancho, Eriksen, Bruno, maybe Fred?

There's just nothing there. This squad is truly, truly abysmal.
 
HookedOnAPhelan said:
We keep playing mentally weak pussies who should've been sold long ago, so yes.
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While this is certainly very accurate and straight to the point, looking back I have to say we've been effected by referees and other instances singling us out to make a point. I've seen a few times when we've showed passion and fighting spirit and we've been sanctioned for some utter bullshit.

We used to surprise defenders with our pace and speed on the break until teams were allowed to foul us at will and we couldn't get a stonewall penalty even with VAR review because we apparently got too many for the level we was supposed to be at. The last couple of years these players have learnt NOT to fight back, to be content playing within themselves, content with blaming others. At one point under Ole we were fighting as a team, even the fans were mostly on the same page. Then we stopped doing that and yeah, this is our true level right now, with these players roaming about.
 
Technically, mentally and physically inept players. A club stuck in the past. The club is broken.

Zlatan: “One thing surprised me: everyone thinks of United as a top club, one of the richest and most powerful in the world and seen from the outside it looked that way to me,” he writes. “But once I was there I found a small, closed mentality.”
 
OleGunnar20 said:
Who in the medium / long term is worth keeping from our current squad, excluding youth?

I'd say: Malacia, Varane, Martinez, Sancho, Eriksen, Bruno, maybe Fred?

There's just nothing there. This squad is truly, truly abysmal.
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What does Sancho do?
 
Cloud7 said:
When your second highest paid player passes the ball to a player within his box with three attacking players surrounding him, yes we are this bad
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Instructions to play that way. And then if he boots it people moan for not passing it out
 
Hammondo said:
Ye fair enough, but at least for the last quarter of last season we had collapsed as well. I agree mentality is pathetic, and we lack any leaders, but I don't even think saf would be successful with this lineup.
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SAF would never collect such a shambolic squad. Give him 1 billion to spend and we would win the treble every year for a decade.
 
The squad is obviously no where near where it needs to be quality wise, but to suggest it’s bottom half level is laughable.

We have seen almost all of them play at a level where they are top four quality players. Mentality is so big in football, I think people are really underestimating how much momentum, confidence and familiarity helps in football.

Ronaldo asking to leave, failed signings etc would have just played into this already. ETH has a massive job regardless of if we landed all our first choice signings this summer.
 
What shocks me is that we refused to back Ralf last January so we could focus on the summer and the new manage!
 
Massive mental weakness I think is the main thing, we’re so meek under pressure. Like a bully at school who will happily pick on kids younger and weaker but as soon as someone puts up a fight we just fold. You can see it happening on the pitch, heads drop but there’s no shock or surprise, it’s like we expect to concede goals these days and are just waiting for it to happen.

Both Shaw and Dalot just aren’t up to it and we have no real quality in the CM position. General lack of combative players across the park. Correct that and we’ll be able to save the season but time is running out.
 
Dan_F said:
The squad is obviously no where near where it needs to be quality wise, but to suggest it’s bottom half level is laughable.

We have seen almost all of them play at a level where they are top four quality players. Mentality is so big in football, I think people are really underestimating how much momentum, confidence and familiarity helps in football.

Ronaldo asking to leave, failed signings etc would have just played into this already. ETH has a massive job regardless of if we landed all our first choice signings this summer.
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Dude, wake up.

I'll be very surprised if we finish in the top half of the table this season.
 
we have no muscle or engine in this team, we simply roll over and concede defeat. We need to add a few bullies in the team, teams walk all over us at the moment. Our enforcer, if you like, is Scott who is just shit at football.
Utter joke of a team at the moment.
 
We have no quality in the team so obviously yes. Our best payer is 37 years old and wants away
 
This team is mentally drained, very much bringing straight from last season. That pace in pre-season and now PL is a complete opposite. The same group played proactive football in pre-season, and a many to do and might recover many areas full of faults. Still, we need to see a lot of these, maybe.

All we can watch and maybe protest as we saw some of the fans doing it - out Glazers, the club for sale. That's not going to help. Let's say how this club will recover from here. A long season ahead, plenty of football left for this club. This club is not a competitor for now, not for any tournament. Let's build (the chemistry) and see us in a respectable position at the points table first.

I feel for Ronaldo. He should not be a part of this, knowing his type and cannot blame Ten Hag as well, not his kind of football. This club will take a lot of time to make proper.
 
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HookedOnAPhelan said:
Dude, wake up.

I'll be very surprised if we finish in the top half of the table this season.
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What does that have to do with what I said? We could do. I’m talking about the difference in quality of player vs everything else that makes up being a footballer.

Dalot, McTominay, Fred at their highest levels wouldn’t look out of place in a bottom half team, I’ll give you that.

The rest have all played at far higher levels than bottom half for most of their careers.
 
We needed six new players and we refused to buy them. The team imploded without the additions simple as
 
Dan_F said:
What does that have to do with what I said? We could do. I’m talking about the difference in quality of player vs everything else that makes up being a footballer.

Dalot, McTominay, Fred at their highest levels wouldn’t look out of place in a bottom half team, I’ll give you that.

The rest have all played at far higher levels than bottom half for most of their careers.
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You're right, apologies.
 
I always expected it to get worse before it gets better given the way ETH plays is such a drastic departure to what the players have been used to. That was assuming we get in some decent players, particularly in midfield. With the lack of decent transfer activity, ETH has a bigger task than pretty much anyone could have realised.
 
I think having Ronaldo back destroyed any "feel good" this club had during preseason. Combine that with "no help is coming" and morale is as low as it was during last month with RR. I selected/clicked that we'll finish 6th but that's really optimistic.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
I think I key areas (GK, Full backs, Midfield) we are amongst the worst, if not the worst, in the league.
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Spot on. This is exactly why we are so shit. You might finish top 4 with one weak are but you won't finish top 10 with 5 positions i.e. half your team, where the players you have would struggle to get games for relegation teams.
 
Ali Dia said:
My take is that we looked untied full of running and good ideas in preseason without Ronaldo. Then Ronadlo comes back into the squad and we fall apart again instantly. It looks to me like a lot of our players aren’t playing for each other and that’s a major major problem.
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Did you not see how the performances in preseason got worse and worse the more we played them (vs teams getting fitter and fitter). Those games were an illusion of the reality awaiting uw
 
Danny said:
Instructions to play that way. And then if he boots it people moan for not passing it out
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Nobody has told him to make a pass to a marked player that everyone and their dog could see just wasn’t on. The whole time Maguire was unmarked to his right, no need to just boot it.

There are zero, zero excuses for him here.
 
Yes and no. Yes because we have played like this for a year. No because these players individually aren't this bad. But we are broken as a group. We need a gutting and new faces in to give it a new feel. That's what was needed. Its much harder to change their mentality when the group essentially hasn't changed. We need at least another 5 players gone pretty much, and we need another 5 in. We need a keeper. We need a winger. We need a striker. We need a couple of mids. We need a right back. Gut the team, start over with a fresh group where it doesn't feel the same anymore.
 
We are a total and utter shambles from top to bottom. There are some very big concerns at the moment;

1. Richard Arnold. Best known for meeting protesters in a pub and buying them pints...he is so cool, I've had my doubts about him since and all the evidence since is not good....Consider that we have only sold one player all summer when a big clear out was needed. ONE feckING PLAYER. Seriously. The only reason the rest left is cos their contracts expired, otherwise they would be still here.

2. ETH. Huge question marks over him now and rightly so. He could have kept Henderson and benched DDG, all good managers have known for years that he is shit, see Spain. ETH could have instructed the club to sell both Dalot and AWB and use the funds to buy a new right back but for reasons unknown to me he didn't. ETH insisted on spunking 50m on Martinez who looks like he would struggle in the championship let alone the PL. It's annoying beyond comprehension that we didn't use that money to buy a midfielder, any fecking midfielder would have done. ETH talking shite about it needing to be the 'right player'. Are you telling me Aranotovic is the right player?? So yes there are huge question marks over him.

3. The owners. No more needs to be said here.

If we don't buy at least two midfielders before the end of the window, I reckon ETH will be gone by November or maybe sooner.
 
Giant Midget said:
SAF would never collect such a shambolic squad. Give him 1 billion to spend and we would win the treble every year for a decade.
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Yes but none of our managers since SAF has been given 1 billion. Also even with 1 billion he wouldn't win a treble every year, thats silly.
 
Yes, this rot set in almost a year ago, we need a total rebuild on and off the pitch. We’re nowhere near on either, get used to being shit for a long time. This season might make last season look good.
 
These players on the whole don’t want to work. Gary Neville highlighted it perfectly when Rashford didn’t want to know then moments later in a similar position Mbeumo was busting a gut to get back. And this is when they were 4-0 up.
 
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