We did buy Zirkzee. We did not give him a 2 week holiday. He was lawfully entitled to one. There are laws that regulate mandatory vacation, both in the UK and The Netherlands.
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Are we ready for the start of the season?
- Thread starter Chicharo
- Start date
He was well rested on the bench at the euros. Should be ready to lead the line on the 16th.
Not buying any of this - ‘poor ETH doesn’t have a striker’.
Of course, we've also won the Snapdragon Cup after all.
There are laws that regulate mandatory vacation, both in the UK and The Netherlands.
Perhaps you would have known that had you not been so busy educating the forum.
Same goes for Shaw, who hardly played in the Euros.
While I do agree that it's silly both these players even went to the Euros, you can't fault for them for taking a vacation they simply are lawfully bound to take.
I personally think we've done OK compared to previous years. Few lads out the door and a clear appetite for more to go in order for us to buy. We appear simply to be trying to get the best price for our players. It's tough with Yoros injury exposes us for the start of the season but I'd expect at least 2 more before the Window closes, it all smacks of being worried about FFP. With the full squad back only now it's tough to be ready for Charity Shield but I think we'll beat Fulham which is the one that matters.
All that said, it's the hope that kills you.
All that said, it's the hope that kills you.
Sacked by Christmas I reckon
I knew and accepted the INEOS change would take time (it's not like we have gotten rid of the glazers entirely). But the mess INEOS have inherited, galls.
Players we all know and INEOS know shouldnt be at the club but we are stuck with them for the short and medium term.
The previous regimes awful negotiations in transfers has resulted in us being seen as a soft touch "it's man Utd, they will cave eventually", after all they over paid for Maguire, Antony, Sancho and Casemiro. They can over pay for our players as well.
INEOS are trying to draw a line in the sand and say, we wont be held to ransom. Understandable strategy and one I agree with. However it means we go into the season without the reinforcements we need (though there's still a few weeks before window closes).
There was a theory doing the rounds with some journalists when ETHs future was in doubt. That INEOS came to the understanding, that this mess will take a few windows at least to sort out.
Also their ideal candidate (whoever that is, wasn't available). So keep ETH, let him go through the clear out/transition of the first team squad. Accept there will be some treading of water while INEOS get everything sorted and in order i.e. make a decision on the new stadium etc.
Then when Utd starts to come out of the other side of this mess, INEOS can say we tried with ETH but it didn't work. We are bringing in our guy. One who will inherit a squad with the deadwood removed and all the required infrastructure in place to be a success.
So I dont think we are ready for the start of this season and I think INEOS knew we wouldn't be either.
Players we all know and INEOS know shouldnt be at the club but we are stuck with them for the short and medium term.
The previous regimes awful negotiations in transfers has resulted in us being seen as a soft touch "it's man Utd, they will cave eventually", after all they over paid for Maguire, Antony, Sancho and Casemiro. They can over pay for our players as well.
INEOS are trying to draw a line in the sand and say, we wont be held to ransom. Understandable strategy and one I agree with. However it means we go into the season without the reinforcements we need (though there's still a few weeks before window closes).
There was a theory doing the rounds with some journalists when ETHs future was in doubt. That INEOS came to the understanding, that this mess will take a few windows at least to sort out.
Also their ideal candidate (whoever that is, wasn't available). So keep ETH, let him go through the clear out/transition of the first team squad. Accept there will be some treading of water while INEOS get everything sorted and in order i.e. make a decision on the new stadium etc.
Then when Utd starts to come out of the other side of this mess, INEOS can say we tried with ETH but it didn't work. We are bringing in our guy. One who will inherit a squad with the deadwood removed and all the required infrastructure in place to be a success.
So I dont think we are ready for the start of this season and I think INEOS knew we wouldn't be either.
I was under the impression that a 3 week holiday is a FIFAPro regulation
Great post. Sums up what o think
The thing is, it will be even harder and cost more money to get someone in January to reinforce the side if we are terrible, same thing if we don’t start the season well, so it’s probably the first time in a long while outside of Moyes that I’ve gone into the season thinking we are in a bit of trouble.
With the squad we have we need Rashford to really step up again and avoid a lot of injuries.
Even then I don’t think we are challenging City/Arsenal at all and will be fighting for fourth spot.
You're spot on. Vacation after FIFA regulated tournaments is regulated by FIFPro, which is in turn guaranteed by national employment laws.
Without national employment laws that regulate mandatory vacation, an employer would have the basis to contest any outside regulations.
Luckily, most countries are sane enough to let their athletes go on holiday. Even the crazier ones, like North Korea.
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Who said anything about that? You don't bring "best in the class" just to not overpay. You bring them to do best things which can be done in business. Good signings, quick deals, good sales....all that was expected.
After all this hype around our new stuff signings i expected much, much more.
They started excellent with 2 in and Kambwala and Greenwood out and then it all stopped.
We still have tone of deadwood and at least 2 or 3 players need to be signed.
We shall see how all this will end but it is 4 days left before our first game and squad is more or less the same.
So the difference from last season is practically just last years squad + Zirkzee as of now. It feels meh going into the season like that, but at least Rashford and Amad has looked more promising in pre-season.
Not discrediting INEOS btw, this project will take a long time, but it's not a good outlook as it stands. It all just takes time.
Paying 50m + a hefty sign on fee + an agent fee to make De Ligt reduce his wage sounds crazy and a bit like signing Sanchoo again. Let's not get held ransom by other clubs who think we're pusharounds.
Would have hoped for just one of Sancho, McTominay or Casemiro to have been moved on, but it's easy to say if there's no offers, or only really low quality ones.
Not discrediting INEOS btw, this project will take a long time, but it's not a good outlook as it stands. It all just takes time.
Paying 50m + a hefty sign on fee + an agent fee to make De Ligt reduce his wage sounds crazy and a bit like signing Sanchoo again. Let's not get held ransom by other clubs who think we're pusharounds.
Would have hoped for just one of Sancho, McTominay or Casemiro to have been moved on, but it's easy to say if there's no offers, or only really low quality ones.
We're clearly not, no. As it's been a real summer of what-ifs.
We've made very good appointments to assemble a strong transfer team. We've targeted some really good signings, and are looking to sell the right players from our squad. But the situation we find ourselves in - financial, contractual (wages) and a poor reputation for negotiating and so 'The United Tax' - have all led to a frustration in terms of putting those plans into actions.
Long term, it bodes better for future windows. Short term, we clearly haven't been able to do anywhere enough so far in terms of hoping to see much onfield improvement as quickly we'd like.
Hopefully the final few weeks of the window will see a lot more movement. But I'm far less hopeful of seeing much improvement in the upcoming season than I was a few weeks ago (and the injuries to Yoro and Hojlund just further added to that).
We've made very good appointments to assemble a strong transfer team. We've targeted some really good signings, and are looking to sell the right players from our squad. But the situation we find ourselves in - financial, contractual (wages) and a poor reputation for negotiating and so 'The United Tax' - have all led to a frustration in terms of putting those plans into actions.
Long term, it bodes better for future windows. Short term, we clearly haven't been able to do anywhere enough so far in terms of hoping to see much onfield improvement as quickly we'd like.
Hopefully the final few weeks of the window will see a lot more movement. But I'm far less hopeful of seeing much improvement in the upcoming season than I was a few weeks ago (and the injuries to Yoro and Hojlund just further added to that).
Oh shoot, that is good to know, I was 100% sure it's Sunday actually.
Why then Havertz got back on tour, about 2 weeks ago? Should he then be thrown in jail?
No we are nowhere near ready and in a turn about kinda way our squad is probably weaker than last seasons squad. We really haven’t improved in the areas we needed. We’ve still done good things but yeah we are still missing so much.
Looks like another fight for even finishing top 6 as of right now.
Looks like another fight for even finishing top 6 as of right now.
Germany's last game was on July 5th. He joined the tour about two weeks ago you say? That pretty much makes it a 3 week vacation then, assuming he didn't report to team training straight away, which it seems he didn't. The responsibility to enforce vacation laws is on the employer, not the employee. So the jail bit doesn't really work.
24 000 posts huh? wow.
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Varane + Kambwalla replaced with Yoro (3 months + out)
Amrabat not replaced
Martial replaced with Zirzkee
No cover/competition for Shaw, Casemiro, Martinez
It’s a balancing act though. We could have signed Ugarte, De Ligt and a full back by now. If it had cost us an extra £40m though that’s a signing for next summer we can’t afford.
Business has been slow across Europe whether that’s due to Euros and Copa America or PSR biting.
Ideally you want them for preseason but if PSG & Bayern won’t budge then you can’t just pay up.
Id say we look ready to fight for 8th, maybe as high as 6th if we get lucky with injuries
Feels like a resounding no. Hope I’m pleasantly surprised.
Clearly not ready, just based on the midfield it’s obvious we are going to be struggling. Going to have to pray that by some miracle Shaw and Martinez can stay fit and Rashford somehow rediscovers his form or can see results and performances being very similar to last season.
It’s hard to see what will change significantly as we simply won’t generate the funds from sales to bring players in.
It’s hard to see what will change significantly as we simply won’t generate the funds from sales to bring players in.
Can’t sell, can’t get deals over the line, any new signing potential flop or crock. Rinse repeat. I’m sure we can get some more deals done though. Maybe the tide will turn soon.
Seems to be some naivety by INEOS that players will just leave and be replaced this summer. Player power is too strong at United. These players have been given long contracts on inflated wages. We are stuck with them until their contract runs out and with no transfer fee.
The ridiculous 5+1 year contracts need to end. If a player performs badly in year 1, which has been the case all too often, we are stuck for 4 years potentially. I would be giving these players a standard 3 year with option of 2 more plus enhanced salary after 3 years.
The ridiculous 5+1 year contracts need to end. If a player performs badly in year 1, which has been the case all too often, we are stuck for 4 years potentially. I would be giving these players a standard 3 year with option of 2 more plus enhanced salary after 3 years.
Midtable squad arguably weakened since last year. Ineos finding it impossible to clean up the mess the Glazers have put us in. Time to get ruthless with the deadwood.
We will get 6th or 7th
But! Don't worry we will win a trophy and that'd cover it up and we can pretend we going places
But! Don't worry we will win a trophy and that'd cover it up and we can pretend we going places
Nowhere near. If we don't make more signings then it will be like last season .
Very polite post. You said "obligated" to take it, and mentioned about law and such.
Didn't zirkzee has 2 weeks off after Serie A end to the Euro call up?
https://onefootball.com/en/news/the-20232024-serie-a-season-gets-a-start-and-end-date-36295506
https://www.reuters.com/sports/soccer/zirkzee-added-dutch-squad-euro-2024-2024-06-13/#:~:text=WOLFSBURG, Germany, June 13 (,for the tournament in Germany.
No
I merely returned your own politeness with that jail quip, so blame yourself.
If you've read the rest of the discussion you'd know that FIFPro regulates mandatory vacation after FIFA regulated tournaments, such as the Euros. So all players in the Euros go on a 3-week vacation after they're knocked out. Finalists got the option to return earlier.
And yes, vacation is a lawful obligation enforced by national employment laws in the UK and The Netherlands (and many other countries). That means employers (in this case, Manchester United and KNVB/Royal Dutch Football Association) are responsible for not only giving their employees vacation, but also for ensuring that it is fulfilled. So it is absolutely mandatory and obligatory, and the lawful responsibility is on the employer, not the employee.
So in simplified terms: If a player refuses to take their vacation, clubs are lawfully bound to force them to take it.
If a player chooses to train during their vacation, they absolutely can, but they can't report back to work/training organized by their own employer. That's why many players go on summer training camps not organized by their employers. E.g. English players doing summer training camps in the US or Dubai, and such.
They can also return to use the club's facilities, or even visit their team on tour. But they can not partake in organized team training or other organized activities with paid staff until their vacation is over. Nor can the club staff officially organize their training or schedules, until the vacation is over.
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Our biggest problem is still our inability to sell. Been our biggest issue for over a decade now.
We must be bottom of the selling league table, it's infuriating how we literally can't shift anyone ever.
We must be bottom of the selling league table, it's infuriating how we literally can't shift anyone ever.
I think it's secondary to our terrible record at buying. Buy bad and average players and put them on high wages, we inevitably struggle to sell them when they stink up the place.
We also seem to be crap at selling youngsters who turn out to be quality players. We got £10m for Andreas Pereira, after 45 PL appearances (2 goals and 4 assists). Liverpool got over twice that when they sold Solanke, after just 21 PL appearances (1 goal and 1 assist).
Yup. Our fifth biggest ever sale was that of Daniel James for something like £21 million.
But we’re forced to buy bad due to having zero financial rope.
That’s meant we’ve either not backed managers when we needed to, or had to force loans on managers that we never sign permanently (because we never had the intention to). Igahlo, Weghorst, Amrabat, Sabitzer etc
Or free transfers, like Eriksen.
If we can sell McTominay, Maguire, Wan Bissaka our real ability to sign players would be hugely increased and we’d have De Ligt in immediately, considering personal terms are agreed.
Obviously the wages we’ve been dishing out are ridiculous, but we should be more cut throat at selling players. Martial should have been sold to Spurs for 20m or whatever.
As it stands, we are going into next season arguably weaker than we were at start of last season.
We’re not ready yet clearly, but I think we’ll make another couple of signings in the next few weeks which will hopefully get us there.
We've been buying bad for 10 years, we signed Antony for 90m just two years ago! Casemiro and Mount for well over 100m combined! We have no money to spend because we've already spent it on the wrong players. Our inability to sell to regenerate money to spend on the same position is just a compounding of the error.
Depends how many gets injured alighting from the team bus and the number who gets injured in the warm up.