Are we heading for a big squad clear out?

KM

I’m afraid I just blue myself
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Sir Alex Ferguson is prepared to shake up his Manchester United squad in the summer with up to 10 players facing the chop, according to The Times.

Ferguson, 68, had planned to make the changes even before the revelations about Wayne Rooney's potential exit. Six new faces are coveted at Old Trafford, with the emphasis being placed on young, English talent when possible.

Everton's Jack Rodwell and Sunderland's Jordan Henderson are high on the wish list, with foreigners Atletico Madrid's David De Gea and Aalesunds' Anders Lindegaard lined up to replace Edwin van der Sar and Tomasz Kuszczak.

Following the goalkeeping duo out of the club could be Owen Hargreaves, Michael Carrick, Michael Owen, Wes Brown, Gary Neville and Ji-Sung Park. Veteran pair Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs are yet to decide on their futures but it is hoped they will ink new one-year contracts.
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Now I know this is taken from Goal.com, but they have taken from the "Times", so it might have some credibility. Although I can't see us forcing Brown or Gazza out, due to the loyalty they've shown us, please Fergie is a big believer in keeping homegrown player in the squad.

Would people here will be happy if we replace Carrick and Hargreaves with Rodwell and Henderson?

Would people by happy if this type of Clearout happens?
 
Don't see the point of getting rid of Brown or Ji Sung to be honest. They are brilliant at being squad players. Providing they want to stay of course, not sure what Browns contract situation is?!
 
I think we need a clearout but Im not convinced it will happen. Not really ferries style. I'd bin Owen, Gibson, nev, Hargreaves obviously, brown and then Vds, giggs and scholes will either retire or not. I'm not sure welbeck is progressing either. And de laet.
 
KM said:
Now I know this is taken from Goal.com, but they have taken from the "Times", so it might have some credibility. Although I can't see us forcing Brown or Gazza out, due to the loyalty they've shown us, please Fergie is a big believer in keeping homegrown player in the squad.

Would people here will be happy if we replace Carrick and Hargreaves with Rodwell and Henderson?

Would people by happy if this type of Clearout happens?
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We should let Gazza and Brown see out their careers here, its the least Gazza deserves... Scholes and Giggs have another season in them...

Would be more than happy if we replace Carrick and Hargreaves with Rodwell and Henderson....
 
Karel_Poborsky said:
Don't see the point of getting rid of Brown or Ji Sung to be honest. They are brilliant at being squad players. Providing they want to stay of course, not sure what Browns contract situation is?!
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You don't see the point of getting rid of a player who gets paid £60,000 odd to not play in any matches?
 
We do need to trim it a touch, not a wholesale clearout though.

I've a feeling Scholes and Nev will retire at the end of this season.

But the player's I'd release are...Owen(shift Macheda & Welbeck up the pecking order a notch), Brown(getting payed £50-70k per week and can't even make bench duties these days), Hargreaves(no explanation needed), and if the offer is right I'd allow Gibson to go.
 
RedRichio said:
You don't see the point of getting rid of a player who gets paid £60,000 odd to not play in any matches?
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If you get rid of him.. he will need to be replaced.

His replacement will cost money, and will want the same wages at least.

I doubt you are going to spend 10+ million on a new starting right back.. so assuming he isn't replaced with some 20 year old n00b. You would be worse off.

do you not see that?!
 
vic090482 said:
We should let Gazza and Brown see out their careers here, its the least Gazza deserves... Scholes and Giggs have another season in them...

Would be more than happy if we replace Carrick and Hargreaves with Rodwell and Henderson....
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I'd say Nevs career is almost done, no? You don't pay someone tens of thousands out of sentiment.
 
I like Gibson, I think he has talent. But he won't get enough games at United to enable him to progress at the speed Fletcher did. So it's best if he left to push his game on.
 
Karel_Poborsky said:
If you get rid of him.. he will need to be replaced.

His replacement will cost money, and will want the same wages at least.

I doubt you are going to spend 10+ million on a new starting right back.. so assuming he isn't replaced with some 20 year old n00b. You would be worse off.

do you not see that?!
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Well so far this season it's been rafael, o'shea and occasionally nev. We have four other centre backs. I don't think he needs replacing at all.
 
RedRichio said:
Well so far this season it's been rafael, o'shea and occasionally nev. We have four other centre backs. I don't think he needs replacing at all.
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Well my point really is that if you start getting rid of the likes of Ji-Sung and Brown you are losing quite a lot of experience. You might have other options...now, but when Nev retires, and should Rio be injured. You are largely left with largely inexperienced players.

I'd be looking to off load some of the dead weight "talented" youngsters you have to be honest.

I will be honest. Welbeck, Obertan etc do not have a future at OT.
 
Right back we're ok frankly. In worst case scenario its a position Fletcher can play, thats if both Rafael and O'Shea get injured. Do we really need Brown? He's 5th in the CB order and probably 3rd now in the RB role due to his injuries.

I can see him following the route of Phil Nev frankly.
 
Ben Smith from The Times is tweeting about this as if it's fact, no 'supposedly' or anything...

bensmith_times

Carrick the most high-profile casualty of #mufc cull - Jordan Henderson & Jack Rodwell are targets (via@DuckerTheTimes) http://bit.ly/cnQtY9
 
Karel_Poborsky said:
I will be honest. Welbeck, Obertan etc do not have a future at OT.
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Don't agree with you there. Both have real potential and are still relatively young and inexperienced. Obertan imo is ready to step up into the 1st team and should be given chances in PL games.

Welbeck needs to up his game at Sunderland, but he's learning a new position. I worry about his goal threat though, he needs to be far more clinical infront of goal.
 
Karel_Poborsky said:
Well my point really is that if you start getting rid of the likes of Ji-Sung and Brown you are losing quite a lot of experience. You might have other options...now, but when Nev retires, and should Rio be injured. You are largely left with largely inexperienced players.

I'd be looking to off load some of the dead weight "talented" youngsters you have to be honest.

I will be honest. Welbeck, Obertan etc do not have a future at OT.
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How much you've seen of them to make this judgement?
 
Karel_Poborsky said:
Well my point really is that if you start getting rid of the likes of Ji-Sung and Brown you are losing quite a lot of experience. You might have other options...now, but when Nev retires, and should Rio be injured. You are largely left with largely inexperienced players.

I'd be looking to off load some of the dead weight "talented" youngsters you have to be honest.

I will be honest. Welbeck, Obertan etc do not have a future at OT.
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I wouldn't sell park. I do agree about welbeck and obertan mind, but I wouldn't be miffed if they were given another 18 months to prove me wrong.
 
Karel_Poborsky said:
Well my point really is that if you start getting rid of the likes of Ji-Sung and Brown you are losing quite a lot of experience. You might have other options...now, but when Nev retires, and should Rio be injured. You are largely left with largely inexperienced players.

I'd be looking to off load some of the dead weight "talented" youngsters you have to be honest.

I will be honest. Welbeck, Obertan etc do not have a future at OT.
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I actually agree with the first bit of this, and that the youngsters we've stockpiled aren't all going to make it, and the obvious ones like De Laet, Diouf, and IMO Gibson should be cut from our cloth accordingly.

However, the final sentence is utter garbage, Obertan has more talent in his little toe than most of our other youngsters, and Welbeck is doing really well at Sunderland, is gifted and offers the versatility to play wide or through the middle. So your on the right tracks, but just picked out the wrong player's that "do not have future" here IMO.
 
KM said:
How much you've seen of them to make this judgement?
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I've seen Welbeck play for Sunderland this season. I've obviously seen them both play live on television.

Welbeck is better than the standard Frazer Campbell was at when you sold him. You lot were raving about him like he was made from quaker oats or something. But Welbeck isn't anything special. For that matter I don't think Macheda is either. I just don't see the potential.

It's a point thats been raised many a time amongst my inner circle of friends.
 
Karel_Poborsky said:
I've seen Welbeck play for Sunderland this season. I've obviously seen them both play live on television.

Welbeck is better than the standard Frazer Campbell was at when you sold him. You lot were raving about him like he was made from quaker oats or something. Welbeck isn't anything special. For that matter I don't think Macheda is either. I just don't see the potential.

It's a point thats been raised many a time amongst my inner circle of friends.
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Welbeck is playing on loan for a team who doesn't create too much and is playing in relatively new position. The fact that he's keeping their 13Million New Signing Gyan out of the team, should be an indication that he's doing quite well.This loan will help him in the long run, obviously I would like him to score a few more goals but so far he has been pretty good for them.
 
RedThaiDevils#7 said:
Seriously KP, who has potential in your eyes, for me, apart from Wilshere, Pato, Neymar, Lukalu, etc... I don't see many good 18-20 yr old's out there... Possibly the Argentian and Brazilian leagues but I don't watch them.
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You lot talk about your youngsters as if they are going to come in and "save the club" so to speak. You believe that they will replace the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Rooney and Ronaldo.

My point is that me, and many others don't think they will.

They might end up being useful squad players... but I can't see them being anything more.
 
I Would be more than happy if we replace Carrick and Hargreaves with Rodwell and Henderson seem as we already have Fletcher and Anderson and Park and maybe 1 more year of the ginger ninja
I have a feeling that Anderson might be sacraficed if we get a new midfielder also and Gibson might be sold too. There is one other big name player that I think might go if we got an offer but I wouldnt dare say his name due to getting slated and its not Rooney.

I am surprised Fergie didnt do a shake up this summer as it was definitely needed. You can never underestimate the positive effect a sqaud shake up can have on the players as 99 and 2008 have proven!!
 
Karel_Poborsky said:
You lot talk about your youngsters as if they are going to come in and "save the club" so to speak. You believe that they will replace the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Rooney and Ronaldo.

My point is that me, and many others don't think they will.

They might end up being useful squad players... but I can't see them being anything more.
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No-one says that they're gonna replace Ronaldo, Rooney, Scholes and Giggs.

Nearly everyone believes that all these players(Giggs, Scholes etc) are once in a lifetime players.

You should read the threads carefully before making stupid assumptions and stating them as a fact in your posts.
 
KM said:
No-one says that they're gonna replace Ronaldo, Rooney, Scholes and Giggs.

Nearly everyone believes that all these players(Giggs, Scholes etc) are once in a lifetime players.

You should read the threads carefully before making stupid assumptions and stating them as a fact in your posts.
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:smirk:

I'll make less stupid assumptions in my entire life time then you make in a week.

I was expressing opinion. That was quite obvious. Stupid assumptions you might think so, but i'm the real football fan here.
 
Karel_Poborsky said:
You lot talk about your youngsters as if they are going to come in and "save the club" so to speak. You believe that they will replace the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Rooney and Ronaldo.

My point is that me, and many others don't think they will.

They might end up being useful squad players... but I can't see them being anything more.
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Don't think anyone has been stupid enough to consider them Rooney/Ronaldo quality. Rafael is probably one of the best fullbacks in England though.

They all have potential to be very good players. But some of them progress slower than others, but thats mainly dependant on gametime. I think its only a matter of time before Obertan becomes our next star. Expect him to break out this season imo.
 
The last cycle of success was based around Ronaldo, Rooney in attack ably supported by Tevez. Carrick and Scholes were excellent in midfield supported by Giggs. The defence was awesome with Vidic and Rio.

Today we need a new nucleus
 
Karel_Poborsky said:
:smirk:

I'll make less stupid assumptions in my entire life time then you make in a week.

I was expressing opinion. That was quite obvious. Stupid assumptions you might think so, but i'm the real football fan here.
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Your line

"You lot talk about your youngsters as if they are going to come in and "save the club" so to speak. You believe that they will replace the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Rooney and Ronaldo."

was a stupid assumption to make about the United fans.
 
KM said:
Your line

"You lot talk about your youngsters as if they are going to come in and "save the club" so to speak. You believe that they will replace the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Rooney and Ronaldo."

was a stupid assumption to make about the United fans.
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For a club who's transfer policy is to stockpile youngsters is not a stupid assumption at all.

In fact it makes logical sense.

You see world class players go out. Youngsters come in.

That means they are the same quality right? Otherwise the club would be declining in quality.

No, you say?

thats the problem.
 
Not that big a clear out. They listed 1/3 of the squad and most of the experienced players which can't be right. I'm sure we will get rid of a few and to be fair we need that to get a semblance of a first team because we've a good squad but to many question marks
 
RedSky At Night said:
I like Gibson, I think he has talent. But he won't get enough games at United to enable him to progress at the speed Fletcher did. So it's best if he left to push his game on.
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You're one of a select few!

Carrick will stay. We're short on midfielders as it is so there's no point in getting rid of one of the only ones who isn't crocked or too old. Sure his form is crap but he's 28, probably isn't on massive wages and will have time to get it back. There'd be no point selling him for what would probably be around £8-10m if we're lucky.

VDS and Neville are definitely gone, Scholes more than likely. Possibly Giggs. Hargreaves will surely be gone, or maybe just sign a new pay as you play contract like Owen, who will also probably be gone.

I'd keep Brown, he's hardly too old to still make an impact, people easily forget how ruddy good he was in 07/08.
 
Karel_Poborsky said:
For a club who's transfer policy is to stockpile youngsters is not a stupid assumption at all.

In fact it makes logical sense.

You see world class players go out. Youngsters come in.

That means they are the same quality right? Otherwise the club would be declining in quality.

No, you say?

thats the problem.
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We've rarely signed world class players though. We have a different mentality at Old Trafford. We sign promising youngsters, allow them to develop their game at their speed. Then when they're ready we bring them into the first team. When players leave, these youngsters who are now aged 22-23 step up and become the next super stars (see Nani, Ronnie, Evans, Rafael etc etc).

Its a constant cycle. We're always bringing in youngsters to continue the above cycle. Some will make it, some won't. But those that do generally become important members of the team. Then we buy in good players to fill in any gaps.

It's why I find it funny that Rooney has come out with this bullshit excuse of not attracting top players. Was Rooney or Ronaldo top players when they joined us? United make good players into great players.

I do think we need similiar investiment into the team like we did when Ronnie/Rooney joined the club. But we need a GK and an attacking CM. We're fine elsewhere imo, I expect some of our youngsters to make the grade and step up. Bit concerned with our strikeforce though, Chico and Berbatov aside I don't think our young strikers are good enough frankly. But I expect we'll give them at least another year to prove themselves.
 
Agree with all that Redsky. This is a bit of a different season though really, because whilst developing those youngsters we've always had the ever reliable presence of Scholes, Giggs, Neville, VDS, and going back a bit, Keane, Solskjaer etc, who you know will stay committed to the club.

Unfortunately, with the ages of those players now and their inevitable retirement, we smply can't just sign promising youngsters this coming Summer. We need a balance between them and established stars.
 
United don't need a clear-out. They need to let their legends retire gracefully and acquire new talent.

Keep the older heads in the squad as they're valuable, experienced options, like Carrick, Brown, Park, Hargreaves (if he's not dead), etc... Unless of course there are willing buyers at the right price...

Rafael and his brother need a good run in the side, let the next generation of players get a good taste and give them the opportunity to make their names. Though I know there's a ridiculously hard balance between bringing younger players in and losing the experience and 'grit' needed to compete at the top...

Thank feck I'm not a manager.
 
I keep saying it - we will lose alot of experience in the next summer or at a stretch two - with Giggs, Scholes, VDS and Gaz retiring, and Owen most likely making way. Therefore we cant afford to lose players like Carrick/Park/Hargreaves as well.
 
cina said:
Agree with all that Redsky. This is a bit of a different season though really, because whilst developing those youngsters we've always had the ever reliable presence of Scholes, Giggs, Neville, VDS, and going back a bit, Keane, Solskjaer etc, who you know will stay committed to the club.

Unfortunately, with the ages of those players now and their inevitable retirement, we smply can't just sign promising youngsters this coming Summer. We need a balance between them and established stars.
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But how many of these players do we need to replace exactly?

Giggs - Nani
Neville - Rafael

We essentially need a goalkeeper and an attacking CM. Both of whom will be established young players who we'll turn into superstars. If Rooney does leave, then we may also need to buy another striker. I can't see any more investiment other than that frankly.

We'd then have senior players: Vidic, Rio, Evra, O'Shea, Brown, Carrick, Fletcher, Park, Berbatov, Nani

Thats more than enough to guide young players through. If anything, too much!
 
Karel_Poborsky said:
For a club who's transfer policy is to stockpile youngsters is not a stupid assumption at all.

In fact it makes logical sense.

You see world class players go out. Youngsters come in.

That means they are the same quality right? Otherwise the club would be declining in quality.

No, you say?

thats the problem.
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We signed Nani and Anderson as a long term replacements for Giggs and Scholes, although Anderson has been inconsistent, I would say Nani has been pretty good. Gary Neville will be replaced by Rafael in the future, and with talent that he possess, it's not unreasonable to suggest that he can't be a better player than Gaz in the future.

Ronaldo has been replaced by Valencia, while to compensate the loss of Tevez, the signings of Hernandez and Owen were made.

We haven't had a chance to replace Rooney right now.
 
Karel_Poborsky said:
:smirk:

I'll make less stupid assumptions in my entire life time then you make in a week.

I was expressing opinion. That was quite obvious. Stupid assumptions you might think so, but i'm the real football fan here.
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you seem to have some chip on your shoulder just because you are not an United fan.

and i agree that a lot of the youth will not make it. even someone as hyped as macheda.

however, you seem to have a problem trying to see how things fall into place for a player.
I wonder what you made of Nani in 2009.

It won't fall in place for everyone but they would be a source of revenue to keep the academy going.
 
RedSky At Night said:
But how many of these players do we need to replace exactly?

Giggs - Nani
Neville - Rafael

We essentially need a goalkeeper and an attacking CM. Both of whom will be established young players who we'll turn into superstars. If Rooney does leave, then we may also need to buy another striker. I can't see any more investiment other than that frankly.

We'd then have senior players: Vidic, Rio, Evra, O'Shea, Brown, Carrick, Fletcher, Park, Berbatov, Nani

Thats more than enough to guide young players through. If anything, too much!
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Agreed.

The only player who IMO we'll have trouble find a replacement for will be Scholesy. I think we'll change our system when he retires, I don't think there are too many players who are available which can adequately replace Scholesy.
 
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