Are PSG a failed project?

Wouldn't be surprised if they win it without Mbappé in 3-4 years' time, to be honest, if they really are serious about this new approach where they hoard talent but with a vision in mind, not just aimlessly buy big names and hope Mbappé will carry them to victory

I don't think it's been either successful or unsuccessful, to be honest. It's been pretty meh
 
Demyanenko_square_jaw said:
It's not the league holding them back in any truly substantial way -- if that was the case, they would be going out of the group stages often and performing more like Zenit did when they were spending a lot.
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You deliberately ignore the different financial realities - PSG isn't going out in the group stage like Zenit because their money allowed them to build teams too strong to go out in the group stages. They still don't always make it straightforward either - look at this season, look at whenever they got drawn with City, look at 18/19 when they needed a Di Maria last gasp wondergoal to qualify...

The lack of domestic challenge means they're often unprepared for the dog fights of CL, when they face teams of similar level and end up getting dragged into battles of survival, which they almost never win. PSG's eliminations rarely came as a result of a better team just outplaying them - it's either spectacular collapses or self-inflicted defeats. Going back to 12/13, only 4 times were their eliminations either not spectacular meltdowns or self-inflicted. 4 out of 12. Hell even in the league, the few times they got an actual rival capable of challenging them, they fecking lost the title. They have the biggest financial advantage over their competition of any team in the top 5 leagues, yet they've been less dominant than Juventus or Bayern. Hell, since 16/17 they won the same number of league titles as Manchester City - the latter competing in the richest, strongest league in the world
 
giorno said:
You deliberately ignore the different financial realities - PSG isn't going out in the group stage like Zenit because their money allowed them to build teams too strong to go out in the group stages. They still don't always make it straightforward either - look at this season, look at whenever they got drawn with City, look at 18/19 when they needed a Di Maria last gasp wondergoal to qualify...

The lack of domestic challenge means they're often unprepared for the dog fights of CL, when they face teams of similar level and end up getting dragged into battles of survival, which they almost never win. PSG's eliminations rarely came as a result of a better team just outplaying them - it's either spectacular collapses or self-inflicted defeats. Going back to 12/13, only 4 times were their eliminations either not spectacular meltdowns or self-inflicted. 4 out of 12. Hell even in the league, the few times they got an actual rival capable of challenging them, they fecking lost the title. They have the biggest financial advantage over their competition of any team in the top 5 leagues, yet they've been less dominant than Juventus or Bayern. Hell, since 16/17 they won the same number of league titles as Manchester City - the latter competing in the richest, strongest league in the world
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Yeah I remember reading two years ago, PSG had the 14 best paid players in Ligue 1 (full team and 3 subs), and a senior squad of 21 better paid than 2nd placed Marseille. Neymar earned 200 times the average salary at Clermont. A financial disparity that doesn't exist in any other league.
 
giorno said:
You deliberately ignore the different financial realities - PSG isn't going out in the group stage like Zenit because their money allowed them to build teams too strong to go out in the group stages. They still don't always make it straightforward either - look at this season, look at whenever they got drawn with City, look at 18/19 when they needed a Di Maria last gasp wondergoal to qualify...

The lack of domestic challenge means they're often unprepared for the dog fights of CL, when they face teams of similar level and end up getting dragged into battles of survival, which they almost never win. PSG's eliminations rarely came as a result of a better team just outplaying them - it's either spectacular collapses or self-inflicted defeats. Going back to 12/13, only 4 times were their eliminations either not spectacular meltdowns or self-inflicted. 4 out of 12. Hell even in the league, the few times they got an actual rival capable of challenging them, they fecking lost the title. They have the biggest financial advantage over their competition of any team in the top 5 leagues, yet they've been less dominant than Juventus or Bayern. Hell, since 16/17 they won the same number of league titles as Manchester City - the latter competing in the richest, strongest league in the world
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I'm not deliberately ignoring anything, could easily be i'm wrong, but not being disingenious. Why would i do that? I'm no fan of PSG.

Some of that i think only bolsters my point that the league strength is not one of the major issues. A significant part of why Zenit (essentially a de facto state funded club) didn't do better is because the league's international appeal and the quality of that generation of domestic players was not strong enough...plus Uefa at least half-arsedly enforced FFP against them at times. All factors related to the domestic situation and issues that don't affect Ligue 1 to nearly the same level; it does produce a great depth of homegrown talent that consistently transition to the big four leagues in large numbers, and is a big enough draw ( when welded to the money psg are throwing around) to pull in genuinely elite players

Is having only occasional rivals and a huge financial advantage not a problem at all? Of course not. It is a drawback, and there are definitely various knockout games that arguably show they weren't used to "dog fights" (which in all honesty i don't think came up all that often for Juve or Bayern domestically either during their long dominant runs) and/or didn't possess a big game/club mentality as a collective, though that last aspect can be attributed to big teams in the top four leagues over this period too; swimming in deeper waters doesn't automatically toughen a team of great financial potential up quickly. just look at United or City's many exits (which we could pick apart too) before they got it right. However, these issues, and the fact they tended to struggle when a good domestic rival did emerge, comes back to my point in the first paragraph...i just don't think they've ever been THAT good to the point where going out in the CL knockouts against equal/better teams should be seen as some huge failure, or reason for condemning the entire league. This is purely looking at things from the on-field reality in relation to the strongest top four league clubs of the era, and not to argue against the idea Qatar/PSG leadership couldn't have used their riches in a wiser fashion to build smarter, better balanced squads.

It comes back to those very fine margins of late knockout rounds. When you've made a final and a few semi-finals, not much has to go the other way on the day, even if a team is outplayed overall, and you have been talking two/three time finalists, or even winners. That's not the mark of a team being truly substantially held back by their league. I find it highly debatable that if we were to take those Qatari-era squads and have them play out all those seasons in one of the big four leagues that it would necessarily improve , or toughen them up, beyond what they've actually produced as French league champions. The crucible of the premier league certainly hasn't forged a financial powerhouse like United back into greatness purely on the back of its greater competitiveness alone, and it took City a long time to get things right, during which PSG have been in those late stages three times out of the last five tournaments.
 
Going back to the original question...I guess it depends a bit what the expectations were. It feels like it was supposed to be a team that wins the CL quite regularly and obviously for that it is a fail. It was difficult to get to that standard, even though at times it felt like they might get there.

They came up short I feel because there is a shortage of how many top players really want to play for a club that is not in one of the most challenging of leagues, and even when you get some of those players, they need to be tested week in and week out. It's why I think or at least I hope the Saudi will fall short as well.

Im glad they didnt succeed. I can't stand PSG much like City and Chelsea.
 
Changeisgood said:
Going back to the original question...I guess it depends a bit what the expectations were. It feels like it was supposed to be a team that wins the CL quite regularly and obviously for that it is a fail. It was difficult to get to that standard, even though at times it felt like they might get there.

They came up short I feel because there is a shortage of how many top players really want to play for a club that is not in one of the most challenging of leagues, and even when you get some of those players, they need to be tested week in and week out. It's why I think or at least I hope the Saudi will fall short as well.

Im glad they didnt succeed. I can't stand PSG much like City and Chelsea.
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They didn't even win it once. Which makes the failure even more clear
 
They certainly are not anywhere near as good as they were a few years back. Their best days were prob when they had the likes of Cavani / Neymar / Ibra /Verratti etc playing for them. the team they have now isnt on that level for me. The hype of PSG and attracting the biggest and best players seems to be gone, and many have lost interest, In my opinion their best chances of winning the CL are past them. Im amazed they got as far as they did this year.
 
EireRed_GS said:
They certainly are not anywhere near as good as they were a few years back. Their best days were prob when they had the likes of Cavani / Neymar / Ibra /Verratti etc playing for them. the team they have now isnt on that level for me. The hype of PSG and attracting the biggest and best players seems to be gone, and many have lost interest, In my opinion their best chances of winning the CL are past them. Im amazed they got as far as they did this year.
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Interestingly the same applies to Dortmund. Makes you wonder if it actually was an advantage for both of them to be drawn into the "group of death"? In the sense of getting the feeling "if we survive this group, we can go all the way"
 
Their Galactico signings will likely slow down quite a bit, but maybe that's a blessing in disguise.
 
pcaming said:
Their Galactico signings will likely slow down quite a bit, but maybe that's a blessing in disguise.
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Yeah, their approach right now seems way better than the superstar route before. Much more coherent and if they continue to aim for snapping up all the young French talent, they might have a decent shot in a few years. Depending if they don’t lose all impetus for this project.
 
They're probably always going to be good enought to win the French league and will almost always be there in the last few rounds of the CL.

I think with Mbappe leaving it's probably a sign of them losing some of their appeal, you will always have players who will go there for the money and the lifetstyle, but they won't be serious enough footballers to get them over the line in the CL.
 
What’s next for them, on paper this is their worst team of the Qatar era even before Mbappe leaving
 
GlasgowCeltic said:
What’s next for them, on paper this is their worst team of the Qatar era even before Mbappe leaving
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Thought the exact same when I saw this thread bumped. Do they try and go the Galactico route or try and find the next 'Mbappe'.
 
The fact that they lost the best player in the world on a free makes them a failed project in and of itself.

If they'd won the CL this season, losing Mbappe for free would have still made them a failed project.
 
France have so many talents. If PSG go Bayern Munich's model they could be very successful. Heck, even Dortmund's model.

They were too impatient and spent crazy money on superstars and wasted almost more than maybe half a billion on Mbappe alone. Also, the Neymar, Di Maria, Cavani, Zlatan type of which were expensive and have big egos that may unsettle the team.

They have the financial means to get the best young players and best players in Ligue 1. Build from there as the base, France have enough talents (like Monaco used to do) to be very successful. Add a few big names players without affecting the team moral and chemistry, it could work wonders.

They could be the Juventus or Bayern Munich of France.
 
I think they're building fairly well (but not earth shatteringly so) under Luis Campos. Donnarumma could be keeper for the next 10 years and, although he hasn't become the absolute beast people expected, is still very decent. In defence, Nuno Mendes and Luca Beraldo are top prospects while Hakimi is only 25 and Lucas Hernandez is 28 with Mukiele and Kimpembe as solid rotation options. Marquinhos isn't what he was but isn't ancient at 30 while Skriniar is a year younger. I was surprised that Ugarte hasn't really been in the team as I rate him highly. Moscardo looks an immense talent. Zaire-Emery could easily become the best midfielder in the world one day while Vitinha has been amazing during the season just gone. Up front is where they are weakest now, especially with Mbappe going. Muani has flopped somewhat. Ramos was better but didn't exactly light up the place. Barcola has a ton of promise. Dembele is a wildcard but I like him. I'm not wowed by Kang-In or Asensio. They need a CD and two great attackers long term.

I'm not totally convinced by Luis Enrique as a coach tbh but he'll do for now.

So no, I wouldn't say it's a failed project. They've raised their profile immensely. The CL is always the priority for them and they're probably further than ever now but I do like what they're building long term.

Future team (25 and under) -
Donnarumma; Hakimi, Mendes, NEW, Beraldo; Moscardo, Zaire-Emery, Vitinha; NEW, Barcola, NEW

Get in Leny Yoro, Desire Doue and Victor Osimhen and they'll be scary.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
France have so many talents. If PSG go Bayern Munich's model they could be very successful. Heck, even Dortmund's model.
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This is such an important part. PSG managed to lose a lot of their best French talents for nothing or peanuts since they weren't able/willing to give them minutes over their "stars".
 
If you compare them to City throughout roughly the same period as Abu Dhabi took over the latter, its pretty obvious only one of them were/are a well run club.
 
They might end up doing better without having to basically constantly pander to one players ego. That’s not always good for a collective team, but there’s no doubt that’s how it was with Mbappe. To this point it’s definitely a failed project though.
 
Acrobat7 said:
This is such an important part. PSG managed to lose a lot of their best French talents for nothing or peanuts since they weren't able/willing to give them minutes over their "stars".
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With proper football structure and patient, France is a talent goldmine in world football. They could really build something bigger than BM and Juventus model because France have more than enough talents. Mix them with some superstars around Europe without affecting the team moral. It could be very successful.

100% agree they keep loosing French talents and focus on the wrong "galaticos" model.
 
SparkedIntoLife said:
I think they're building fairly well (but not earth shatteringly so) under Luis Campos. Donnarumma could be keeper for the next 10 years and, although he hasn't become the absolute beast people expected, is still very decent. In defence, Nuno Mendes and Luca Beraldo are top prospects while Hakimi is only 25 and Lucas Hernandez is 28 with Mukiele and Kimpembe as solid rotation options. Marquinhos isn't what he was but isn't ancient at 30 while Skriniar is a year younger. I was surprised that Ugarte hasn't really been in the team as I rate him highly. Moscardo looks an immense talent. Zaire-Emery could easily become the best midfielder in the world one day while Vitinha has been amazing during the season just gone. Up front is where they are weakest now, especially with Mbappe going. Muani has flopped somewhat. Ramos was better but didn't exactly light up the place. Barcola has a ton of promise. Dembele is a wildcard but I like him. I'm not wowed by Kang-In or Asensio. They need a CD and two great attackers long term.

I'm not totally convinced by Luis Enrique as a coach tbh but he'll do for now.

So no, I wouldn't say it's a failed project. They've raised their profile immensely. The CL is always the priority for them and they're probably further than ever now but I do like what they're building long term.

Future team (25 and under) -
Donnarumma; Hakimi, Mendes, NEW, Beraldo; Moscardo, Zaire-Emery, Vitinha; NEW, Barcola, NEW

Get in Leny Yoro, Desire Doue and Victor Osimhen and they'll be scary.
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They can buy Coman to finally get him back. :angel:

Edit: these new smileys suck!
 
Let's see what happens this summer. The Neymar-Mbappe superstar era is over.

PSG can sign a number of decent players on the back of a UCL semi-final. However, I think they will still fail to win outside France
 
Nani Nana said:
Another defeat yesterday, looking toothless against top opposition
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Did you watch the game? They absolutely hammered them but couldn’t score and got suckered last minute because Donnarumma is pants.

I’m not a fan of the state owners but I think what they’re doing now will work, their youth group is obscenely good and they’ve binned of the galáctico transfer style they used to have.
 
They've changed styles and I think in the long run it will give them a better balance. Despite making the UCL final, I didn't think much of the Mbappe/Neymar era. They were better before them.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Did you watch the game? They absolutely hammered them but couldn’t score and got suckered last minute because Donnarumma is pants.
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I didn't watch the game, but just checked the stats - PSG dominated Atletico Madrid

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They lack killer instinct, missed a lot of goals and Hakimi was really selfish in a couple of occasions.
They desperately need a good striker.
 
Osimhen would be perfect for them
 
Acrobat7 said:
Still funny that they spent €95m on Muani. :lol:
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Because of a guy who couldn't wait to get out of there!!

It's also so weird that their best iteration, despite going through so many players, managers and styles, was one of the very first ones, under Laurent Blanc.
 
Feels like they are in a real battle now just to qualify for the playoffs.

They have Munich away, followed by Salzburg away, then City at home before finishing with Stuttgart away. They will need at least six points to scrape through. I'm pretty certain they will beat Salzburg, but if they lose to City and Munich and don't beat Stuttgart away they are facing a very early exit!
 
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