Are PSG a failed project?

It depends on what the club’s objectives were.

They are now unquestionably the best side in Ligue 1. That wasn’t the case before the takeover.

They’ve been able to attract, develop and retain world class players. That wasn’t the case before the takeover.

They’ve consistently been in the CL and have progressed further than ever in reaching the final. That wasn’t the case before the takeover.
 
It depends on what the club’s objectives were.

They are now unquestionably the best side in Ligue 1. That wasn’t the case before the takeover.

They’ve been able to attract, develop and retain world class players. That wasn’t the case before the takeover.

They’ve consistently been in the CL and have progressed further than ever in reaching the final. That wasn’t the case before the takeover.

Given the money pumped into the club, I'd say all of the above was the minimum. It wasn't an especially 'rich' league before Qatar got involved so was pretty much guaranteed they would achieve all of the above with investment.

I would argue though that they still aren't entirely attractive to every player around as most won't consider playing in that league if they have a chance at playing for a big English or Spanish club. And they do seem to have a bit of an issue retaining certain players!

I think the issue with PSG is with how they have been run. There is always drama and they never seem settled or able to quietly build a team truly capable of winning the CL. They have been top-heavy for years now and have never finished off their team in terms of midfield and defence. And now they have/will lose their best players which are in attack and have an ageing Neymar as the last man standing. Compare them to City and how they have built and progressed and it's night and day. PSG are a chequebook club with zero plan. I don't think you can necessarily hold it against them if they haven't won the CL as there are a lot of stars that need to align to do that, but they probably could have done if they went about things a bit differently.
 
I would argue though that they still aren't entirely attractive to every player around as most won't consider playing in that league if they have a chance at playing for a big English or Spanish club. And they do seem to have a bit of an issue retaining certain players!

By the end of this summer they'll have signed Marco Asensio from Real Madrid and Ousmane Dembele from Barcelona, both players the clubs wanted to keep. So this isn't entirely true.

You could argue that those players had already been at a big Spanish club and PSG is a second choice, which is probably true. But is that surprising?
 
By the end of this summer they'll have signed Marco Asensio from Real Madrid and Ousmane Dembele from Barcelona, both players the clubs wanted to keep. So this isn't entirely true.

You could argue that those players had already been at a big Spanish club and PSG is a second choice, which is probably true. But is that surprising?

Isn't Asensio practically backup? And out of contract? I'm sure you'd like to keep him but it's not like they're taking a happy, starting player there. There's no way Vinicious would go there right now, for example. Dembele is a bit of an enigma also, probably Barcas highest value asset that they'd be open to selling. Would it be the same if Gavi or Pedri was wanted by PSG?
 
There's no way Vinicious would go there right now, for example. Dembele is a bit of an enigma also, probably Barcas highest value asset that they'd be open to selling. Would it be the same if Gavi or Pedri was wanted by PSG?
I'm guessing Vinicius, Pedri, and Gavi wouldn't leave for PSG right now. But I can't see any of them moving to Manchester City, Chelsea, or Bayern Munich right now, either. So I don't think it has much to do with the level of the club.

There's been a decent amount of players who've done RM/Barcelona and PSG, like Messi, Neymar, Di Maria, Keylor Navas, Sergio Ramos, Asensio, and Dembele. I'd say PSG have normalized this. What they haven't normalized is for a top player to play their whole career there. I think that's understandable, it's the French league, the club itself isn't amazingly well-run, etc.
 
I think what’s funny is that at no time they had a squad that was even close to featuring players complimenting each other in every position. They just overspent on offence and brought in defenders and midfielders as water carriers. All their teams have been incredibly uneven.
I think this is an unfair take. The 2017/18 and 2018/19 first XI's were very good and should have won at least one UCL.

The 2019 team topped Liverpool at their best and Napoli in the group stages and was cohesive in every area of the pitch while playing dominant possession football. The other teams they had were poorly constructed and didn't deserve success but they had the right formula at the start of the Neymar/Mbappe era. If Neymar doesn't get injured in 2019 it's a guaranteed UCL imo.
 
Not to diminish the quality of those teams but at the time the club was owned and bankrolled by broadcaster Canal+ who was using football as a major argument for subscriptions, I believe they had exclusive rights to the league already and shared rights for the CL. They largely contributed to building the PSG-OM game as a big event.

It's several scales of magnitude below what QSI is doing. The favouritism, if any, was fairly mild especially by today's standard. They never crushed the league financially. Just saying that to enlighten that PSG is both a young club and was, for large parts of his history, what people call "plastic". The historical jersey pattern, adopted in the mid-70s, was designed by haute couture creature (and then PSG president) Daniel Hechter : Being an insufferable, hip, rich club residing in one of the prosperous cities of the world is the DNA.

yeah, i know about the Canal+ backing, and that they weren't exactly a plucky financial underdog by the standards of that era. I don't know how close that support would bring them to the top sugar-daddied Italian teams/Spanish big two etc....but it does seem to have been one of those rare times (maybe 85-95 roughly? with downfall of Marseille bringing an end?) where some French teams were spending similarly to Italian/Spanish.

PSG has an interesting history. I've only read the basics, but plastic seems an unfair perception of their creation during the Paris FC merger/split. The side that became modern PSG are directly traced to Stade Saint-Germain (formed 1904) and were the only active football club involved, providing all of the players and infrastructure. Paris FC was basically the newly formed stake of 2/3 of the financial backing that were trying to transition this provincial team into being the main professional club of Paris. the other part (Patrelle) was already the president.

During the split that happened a few years later the Patrelle/Stade Saint Germain side (to this point the actual football component) gets fecked. Keeps the new PSG name, but relegated to division 3 and losing professional status; Paris FC become a real individual club, keep top-division status, use parc des princes and most of the squad. After this it's interesting...You would think Crescent and Guyot's Paris FC would be the one to establish themselves, yet the club failed within a few years, spending most of its time in lower divisions after that. PSG climbed quickly back up using youth academy players, retake the parc des princes residence and go on to be ligue 1 regulars.

If you wanted to call an element of it all plastic/no history etc... it would definitely be the Paris FC side, but i guess to fans of other clubs, PSG were still basically playing at being the new fancy capital club, especially if they knew their history was really as a small town/suburbs one.
 
I think this is an unfair take. The 2017/18 and 2018/19 first XI's were very good and should have won at least one UCL.

The 2019 team topped Liverpool at their best and Napoli in the group stages and was cohesive in every area of the pitch while playing dominant possession football. The other teams they had were poorly constructed and didn't deserve success but they had the right formula at the start of the Neymar/Mbappe era. If Neymar doesn't get injured in 2019 it's a guaranteed UCL imo.

Not really, the team was never well built and good results came from a couple of great talents especially offensively. You mention Liverpool, well PSG played against them with Marquinhos (center back) in the midfield because every other option sucked and Bernat and Kehrer as fullbacks, that's not a great 1st XI. But Di Maria, Neymar, Mbappé and Cavani were there so it made up for a lot of things.
 
You’re never going to win the champions league playing farmers every week. Bayern at least have a small bit of competition, there’s a reason Neymar ended up there, can play at 60% capacity and look good, same as messi who was coming to the end of his career.
 
I think the project was towards the last world cup which was a success

They likely will start a real sporting project going forward and building properly instead of gathering stars
 
Don’t agree. Trapp is too bad. Aurier is also too bad. Luiz is too bad. The midfield lacks diversity and Cavani doesn’t belong wide. Uneven team.
It doubt you watched that team seeing your comment. Cavani and Ibra really worked like a charm with Ibra playing as false 9. That midfield was one of the best in Europe and Aurier actually had his last good season.
Trapp, you are definitely right on that one
 
yeah, i know about the Canal+ backing, and that they weren't exactly a plucky financial underdog by the standards of that era. I don't know how close that support would bring them to the top sugar-daddied Italian teams/Spanish big two etc....but it does seem to have been one of those rare times (maybe 85-95 roughly? with downfall of Marseille bringing an end?) where some French teams were spending similarly to Italian/Spanish.

PSG has an interesting history. I've only read the basics, but plastic seems an unfair perception of their creation during the Paris FC merger/split. The side that became modern PSG are directly traced to Stade Saint-Germain (formed 1904) and were the only active football club involved, providing all of the players and infrastructure. Paris FC was basically the newly formed stake of 2/3 of the financial backing that were trying to transition this provincial team into being the main professional club of Paris. the other part (Patrelle) was already the president.

During the split that happened a few years later the Patrelle/Stade Saint Germain side (to this point the actual football component) gets fecked. Keeps the new PSG name, but relegated to division 3 and losing professional status; Paris FC become a real individual club, keep top-division status, use parc des princes and most of the squad. After this it's interesting...You would think Crescent and Guyot's Paris FC would be the one to establish themselves, yet the club failed within a few years, spending most of its time in lower divisions after that. PSG climbed quickly back up using youth academy players, retake the parc des princes residence and go on to be ligue 1 regulars.

If you wanted to call an element of it all plastic/no history etc... it would definitely be the Paris FC side, but i guess to fans of other clubs, PSG were still basically playing at being the new fancy capital club, especially if they knew their history was really as a small town/suburbs one.

"Plastic" is a bit of a provocative or anachronistic term, I am of the opinion there is some historical continuity to the QSI takeover. I think there's a lot of misplaced delusion or mythology in football especially among the fandom of big clubs that their place in the hierarchy is purely built on merit. Buying your way to success, leveraging your competitive advantages and entrenching your position against nouveau riche contenders is the name of the game. Some do it better, smarter or more soundly. The biggest failing of QSI, leaving aside moral and political considerations, is that they have been unable to build a coherent team and football project.

I think it's notable that PSG is a relatively recent club that owes its early existence to a group of well connected show business amateurs (including Hechter and Belmondo) then was owned by the main football broadcaster using it as a gondola head for their product before being bought by QSI.

I think the Paris FC never had time to properly exist to really compete for legitimacy. Since climbing to the top division in 1974, PSG never was relegated in half a century, holding the current running record for elite presence by quite a large margin (Lyon is second, present since 1989). Out of those 50 seasons in the elite only finished 10 times (iirc) below 9th on the league table and that's despite being run like a circus since 1998. PSG never was weak enough to let open the opportunity for a fight on its own turf.

In the 1980s, French industrialist Lagardère bankrolled the Racing Club (an old sport club founded in Paris but historically located in Colombes, in the wealthiest quadrant of Paris suburb, that held the place of the more relevant football club in the region at one point), literally renaming it Matra Racing after his company, in an effort to establish itself as a Paris club but threw the towel after a decade of going nowhere.

Paris FC have a new president since 2012 and I think then they tried to play up the marketing angle of being the real Paris club unlike the QSG. They've been on a slow but steady rise to the top since then, finished upper table in Ligue 2 last season. I'd say you never see a Paris FC jersey anywhere, but I don't even know what a PFC jersey looks like. I'm sure some people care ? And they have fans ? Never ran into them. Red Star and Créteil-Lusitanos are more likely to come up in a convo about football in the region.

Though the PSG wouldn't exist without the much older Saint-Germain club that was an absolute necessary host for the Paris Football Club project / investor group, the only lasting heritage (apart the name) is that PSG training grounds and center has very long been Le Camp des Loges, the Saint-Germain grounds. PSG is due to move out soon (or already has) to the brand new training center QSI funded (in Poissy). Rugby club Le Stade Français should move in as the new tenants for training.

PSG itself coopted as its own mythology the 1970 founding year, it was part of the crest from 1996 to 2012. There's some debate over what the exact founding date of PSG should be but the salient point is that neither the club nor the fans really care about the whole Saint-Germain 1904 club legacy except as an historical footnote. Saint-Germain is a posh, far away suburb, I don't think it was ever a pro football club. The core component of PSG is that it is the Paris team, playing in Paris intra-muros, after decades of sport and particularly football being kept to the outskirts of the city itself. That probably explains why Ultras are so protective of le Parc des Princes. It's been floated a couple of times last two decades they could move the big Saint-Denis Stade de France which has no residency and everyone hates the idea. The biggest challenge of long-term ownership is probably right there, if they need to renovate or expand the home stadium. Le Parc is basically right at the border of Paris proper in a sport complex of sort (there's Jean-Bouin just aside, where the aforementioned rugby team play and the Roland-Garros grounds) in maybe the wealthiest district of the city. There's not exactly room anywhere else in the city to build a bigger stadium.

Edit : I think the peak financial / attractive competitiveness of French clubs (outside 2000s Lyon and current PSG) was the first half of the 90s. After the Bosman ruling the game was up and French football, while fairly large and wealthy, just couldn't keep up as a whole. Canal+ started to divest from PSG, Tapie was finally caught by the patrol for a bunch of corruption in and out of football. Monaco had a rowdy ride since. The other historical clubs that didn't get that extra financing stagnated. Legacy elite clubs that relied on their academy (FC Nantes Atlantique for example) just fell behind.
L'Olympique Lyonnais is the only one that managed to raise its standing but even at the apex of their golden years never entered the closed cabal of "European top clubs".
 
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It depends on what goal they had. If it is all about CL then it is failed project. If not, they have done what they were supposed to do. When they started all this it was a shining star but now it is slowly fading. Question is where they will be in two-there years time.
 
PSG are certainly more of a brand now but it's hard to see where they go from here, and whether their owners go all-in again.

We also don't really know what their goals were. They would have ideally wanted a couple CLs along the way but they were never going to dominate European football for the long-term. The profile of the French league needs to be significantly higher for that and I doubt Qatar thought (or wanted) to do that single handedly with PSG.

And City comparisons are unfair. City Group rode on the popularity wave of the PL and the profile and success forged by the other clubs in the league over the years. PSG were always going to be up against it in a less glamorous league.
 
PSG are certainly more of a brand now but it's hard to see where they go from here, and whether their owners go all-in again.

We also don't really know what their goals were. They would have ideally wanted a couple CLs along the way but they were never going to dominate European football for the long-term. The profile of the French league needs to be significantly higher for that and I doubt Qatar thought (or wanted) to do that single handedly with PSG.

And City comparisons are unfair. City Group rode on the popularity wave of the PL and the profile and success forged by the other clubs in the league over the years. PSG were always going to be up against it in a less glamorous league.

Considering they're now reportedly chasing Dembélé, Ramos and Kolo Manui on top of already half a dozen signings, I think QSI is in for a new 5 years cycle "post Mbappé".
 
Not really. They became the dominant force in their domestic league. This wasn't the case before.

European success is hard anyway, and they managed to reach a final once. Man City have just managed to win CL and after how many years and how much money?
 
Another problem with Ligue 1 not following up on PSG's progress is that I doubt QSI will find a buyer at the current €3bn valuation.

This is a price point which gets you a decent Premier League club...
 
Another problem with Ligue 1 not following up on PSG's progress is that I doubt QSI will find a buyer at the current €3bn valuation.

This is a price point which gets you a decent Premier League club...
I dont see why QSI would sell at any point, if they lose interest they'll just stop investing in it but it's still a valuable asset that they bought for the price of Hojlund. From a numbers standpoint, it's a big win for them, a €3bn valuation is nowhere near the money they put in the club.
 
Not really. They became the dominant force in their domestic league. This wasn't the case before.

European success is hard anyway, and they managed to reach a final once. Man City have just managed to win CL and after how many years and how much money?

They've only made the last 16 five of the last 7 years. When you compare the budgets and some of the teams that have gone farther, it's not great. One final and one semi-final in 11 years. Man City have hardly been the height of success but by comparison they've one win, another final and two semi-finals, and haven't lost in the last 16 in 7 years.
 
The last couple of seasons have been a disaster in CL. Up until then I'd say it was going very well in terms of progression in the CL. But even saying that they always at some point look like they don't know what's hit them in the CL. They've generally looked a mess when I've seen them play, just a group of individuals. I also don't think the group of individuals is a good as they should be given the money at the club.
 
They've only made the last 16 five of the last 7 years. When you compare the budgets and some of the teams that have gone farther, it's not great. One final and one semi-final in 11 years. Man City have hardly been the height of success but by comparison they've one win, another final and two semi-finals, and haven't lost in the last 16 in 7 years.

The big difference is that Man City hired Pep Guardiola. Most PSG managers sucked.
 
The big difference is that Man City hired Pep Guardiola. Most PSG managers sucked.

True, that’s on the PSG owners though that they haven’t got a good one. Buying Messi to go with Mbappé and Neymar while also bringing in Galtier who had no experience of managing superstar players for example.
 
The last couple of seasons have been a disaster in CL. Up until then I'd say it was going very well in terms of progression in the CL. But even saying that they always at some point look like they don't know what's hit them in the CL. They've generally looked a mess when I've seen them play, just a group of individuals. I also don't think the group of individuals is a good as they should be given the money at the club.

I would only call last season a disaster. The year before, we lost against Real Madrid that ended up winning the title and it seems the universe wanted them to. Last season was pure garbage, we didn't even compete against a totally average Bayern team.
 
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I think PSG being in that league is what has ultimately held them back to some extent. Yes they have guaranteed titles but its just made the pressure to win the CL far too much. If that club was in the PL or a more competitive league and won a few titles you would consider it alot more of a success.
 
Looking into Paris FC I see Barhain entered as a (minority) partner in 2020 and is also the shirt sponsor.
 
If it's not sustainable financially and constantly needing sugar daddy money, it's not a success.

It's a massive failure.
 


PSG's Qatari owners selling 5% to 15% shares in the club
 
Mbappe will rot in the reserves all season?

I can see this going down well...
 
Mbappe should take them to court.

I think that case was already litigated a few times in the past and as it stands clubs are entitled to bench a contracted player but cannot deny access to the training equipment, grounds and maybe first team sessions.
I can't believe the PSG board will really like to take a year long media storm because of it, however. PSG keep hinting they believe Mbappé has a secret illegal deal with Madrid but I doubt they can prove it in a court of law.



PSG's Qatari owners selling 5% to 15% shares in the club


Interesting. It's been brewing since this Spring. Maybe QSI is looking to divest and limit the annual cash shower. Club valued at 4 billions € so possibly a 200-600m€ sale for that minority stake. Or as we call it here "the summer budget".
 
I think that case was already litigated a few times in the past and as it stands clubs are entitled to bench a contracted player but cannot deny access to the training equipment, grounds and maybe first team sessions.
I can't believe the PSG board will really like to take a year long media storm because of it, however. PSG keep hinting they believe Mbappé has a secret illegal deal with Madrid but I doubt they can prove it in a court of law.



Interesting. It's been brewing since this Spring. Maybe QSI is looking to divest and limit the annual cash shower. Club valued at 4 billions € so possibly a 200-600m€ sale for that minority stake. Or as we call it here "the summer budget".
They've banished him from the first team.
 
They've banished him from the first team.

Did they ? Taking your word for it but so far it's been threats & talk he will not play a single minute. I'm certain the legal precedent is that you can't bar access to the club training facilities, less so if he is entitled to train with the group.
 
Love how Neymar and Mbappe have been their two best players ever potentially alongside Ibra and the fans don’t give a damn :lol:
If it's not sustainable financially and constantly needing sugar daddy money, it's not a success.

It's a massive failure.
Agree. They imagined it would be many CL titles when they took over but underestimated the task no doubt.

End of the day it goes from sportswashing to clowning on Qatar given their mistakes. There is very little reason to own the club at this point.

PSG have a very passionate fanbase I’ve noticed too. Whether it’s good or bad they don’t let the owners get away with much.
 
They've banished him from the first team.
If he doesn't leave this summer, I simply cannot see them not playing him a single minute. The most important French player , arguably the best known French sportsman of his era, core component of the French national side cannot be benched like this in the season that culminates with the Euros and the Olympic Games held in...Paris.
They'd probably reinstate him, pressure him as much as possible to resign and then put him on the market in December again.
 
They underestimated how tough it would be to win the CL. It took Abu Dhabi 15 years to win the CL. Took Roman and Chelsea 9 years and that was a very un-Roman way to win it. Unless you're Real Madrid, the CL is a crapshoot. You just try to do your best and hope the luck of the draw is on your side.
 
If he doesn't leave this summer, I simply cannot see them not playing him a single minute. The most important French player , arguably the best known French sportsman of his era, core component of the French national side cannot be benched like this in the season that culminates with the Euros and the Olympic Games held in...Paris.
They'd probably reinstate him, pressure him as much as possible to resign and then put him on the market in December again.

He probably already has a verbal deal with Madrid, he'll pocket his PSG loyalty bonuses, then he'll pocket €100m+ from Madrid as a signing on fee for his free transfer. No wonder PSG are pissed..!

Then again, they agreed the contract with him, not Mbappe's problem. The bigger issue is the people running PSG aren't really used to the rule of law applying to them as such.
 
Love how Neymar and Mbappe have been their two best players ever potentially alongside Ibra and the fans don’t give a damn :lol:

Agree. They imagined it would be many CL titles when they took over but underestimated the task no doubt.

End of the day it goes from sportswashing to clowning on Qatar given their mistakes. There is very little reason to own the club at this point.

PSG have a very passionate fanbase I’ve noticed too. Whether it’s good or bad they don’t let the owners get away with much.

Neymar is just not a super likeable guy. The production is there, number wise. Eye test a lot more frustrating.
Mbappé I think everyone is just burned out by the high school saga at this point. He was always going to leave eventually. All the drama is just exhausting and superfluous.

Apparently PSG don't want to accept the transfer fee of Verratti to Saudi. If he stays he has a good chance of becoming the PSG player with most appearances.
 
Neymar is just not a super likeable guy. The production is there, number wise. Eye test a lot more frustrating.
Mbappé I think everyone is just burned out by the high school saga at this point. He was always going to leave eventually. All the drama is just exhausting and superfluous.

Apparently PSG don't want to accept the transfer fee of Verratti to Saudi. If he stays he has a good chance of becoming the PSG player with most appearances.
What a pointless accomplishment that would be for Verratti.
 
The problem with being in a league that is so far below the lever required is they aren’t tested regularly. PSG coat to the title every year, so when they have to uo their game in the CL its very hard to turn that on and off. Failed project is a bit far though.