Are PSG a failed project?

[Tender Teacher]

Yes those are good moments whether you like it or not.

If we're talking about PSG's appearance in the 2020 Champions League final, then we should also mention the context that the competition was near-ruined by coronavirus that year (the quarter finals onwards were played one-legged in empty stadiums) and that their route through the knockout rounds was Dortmund - Atalanta - Leipzig.

 

[Snow]

It's a success at national level.

Before the take over they only won 2 league titles, and had nothing on Marseille and Lyon.

They can't retain their players cause France have always sold their best players to other leagues, that doesn't have much to do with PSG dynamics, but more with France being a supplier for other leagues since the mid 90s when the level of the league started to fell off due to France struggling to market their league like PL, Serie A, or La Liga.

Is it a success? They have had 22 out of the 25 highest paid players in the league for years. Guys that don't even make their bench were paid more than the best player of their rival. When that's a matter of fact it's a failure to not win every single league title.

 

[JPRouve]

If we're talking about PSG's appearance in the 2020 Champions League final, then we should also mention the context that the competition was near-ruined by coronavirus that year (the quarter finals onwards were played one-legged in empty stadiums) and that their route through the knockout rounds was Dortmund - Atalanta - Leipzig.

Does that makes it not a good moment for the club?

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

If we're talking about PSG's appearance in the 2020 Champions League final, then we should also mention the context that the competition was near-ruined by coronavirus that year (the quarter finals onwards were played one-legged in empty stadiums) and that their route through the knockout rounds was Dortmund - Atalanta - Leipzig.

Bayern Munich won the final that year. That is their only appearance in the last 10 CL finals but surely nobody here is going to try and argue that Bayern Munich have been a failure the last decade.

 

[Mb194dc]

Galacticos 2 has been worse than the original.

Buying rival teams players because they pissed you off isn't a strategy!

Also see Neymar and Herrera...

 

[mshnsh]

Very badly run club. No clear strategy interms of recruitment. No clear philosophy. Change of manager every season. Player power dominates. Its like a school for rich spoilt brats who can't give a feck.

Being in a mediocre ligue 1 does not help.

 

[FootballHQ]

Ligue une wasn't that bad in the mid 2000s in terms of european achievement.

Had that excellent Lyon side with spine of Coupet-Cris-Essien-Diarra-Malouda-Juninho-Govou/Benzema for 2-3 years that won 6-7 leagues in a row and also had some very good CL runs.

With a kinder route in that time could've made the final but were edged out by tournament winners Milan and Man. United in 2007 and 08 respectively (their 2010 version was past its peak but got the furthest so similar to Chelsea in 2012).

Marseille made Uefa cup final in 2004 with Drogba but all fell apart after he was sold.

PSG got a stronghold now so no point clubs spending endless amounts just to be 10-15 points off. Nice probably the main club with that capability but they've had odd transfer strategy in recent times so underperformed.

 

[Pes6Monster]

As soon as the Qatari take over United, they'll be an afterthought, I don't mean this in a condescending way, it's the nature of things. United is the crown jewel.

An 'afterthought' suits Qatar. There's a good reason why Sheikh Mansour attends one or two city games per decade. Jassim will most likely attend a few more to keep up the 'big fan' pretence.

I can see the following happening when they take us over:

• Qatari state approved sponsorship on everything, from the jerseys to the stadium's name after they rebuild it in their image.
• Marquee signings of famous names, even if the manager does not want them. This will have more to do with Point 1 than anything else.
• Ex-players given executive roles with which they have little real authority past telling the MEN how great Jassim is. The real executive decisions will be taken by Jassim's inner circle, possibly state actors above Jassim himself.
• United to make greater signals towards LGBTQ/ending violence against women/social causes. This is not for any benevolent reason. It is to disingenuously claim Qatar is somehow 'tolerant' of other beliefs, when the reality is, of course, completely different. Ex-players will be crucial in promoting this 'message'.
• A world-class training facility and improved academy. Of course, 99 percent of graduates will play once or twice for United, but be sold for top dollar, just like at city.

As for PSG, well, they can spend a thousand times more than their opposition and their mercenaries get bored easily. They've destroyed the French league and won nothing in Europe.

Good in a sportswashing/marketing sense, sure, but they've accomplished nothing for the sport itself.

 

[stevoc]

It's a success at national level.

Before the take over they only won 2 league titles, and had nothing on Marseille and Lyon.

They can't retain their players cause France have always sold their best players to other leagues, that doesn't have much to do with PSG dynamics, but more with France being a supplier for other leagues since the mid 90s when the level of the league started to fell off due to France struggling to market their league like PL, Serie A, or La Liga.

It's hardly an achievement given the vast resources that have been pumped into PSG since 2011.

 

[Theonas]

Bayern Munich won the final that year. That is their only appearance in the last 10 CL finals but surely nobody here is going to try and argue that Bayern Munich have been a failure the last decade.

I think context is needed here. Winning the CL in itself is not the number one target for these nouveau riche clubs. The main target is to establish themselves as an elite club that doesn't look out of place or inferior in the company of the Reals and Barcelonas of this world. In order to do that, you have to have a CL or two in your CV but even that is not enough, you have to establish a run of regular quarter and semi final appearances over a decade or so and engrave your name within the football community as a mainstay.

Bayern have already done that in a long illustrious past, they need to do less over a decade to maintain that status. Of course if they go 20 years or so without competing, they risk losing their status. That is why the likes of Pep and before him Mourinho kept talking about how important it was for City and Chelsea to be there and reach the final stages year in year out. City and Chelsea had to win the CL at some point but it also couldn't be a one off. PSG are still behind in that regard, I think beyond their final appearance, they only had one more semi final if memory serves me right. When your starting point is very low in terms of European elite, you have to reach the final stages more often and eventually win the thing which is what Chelsea and City managed within a decade or so of competing at this level. They are now respected European powerhouses in a way PSG aren't yet.

 

[Red the Bear]

Just take a look at their trophy cabinet before and after.

They've done alright, as messy(no pun intended) and classless as they might be they still have done alright for themselves.

Ask most modern football fans and I bet that they will be among the names mentioned.

 

[Hammondo]

Total failure. They didn't even win the French league every season. Biggest waste of money.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

PSG are still behind in that regard, I think beyond their final appearance, they only had one more semi final if memory serves me right. When your starting point is very low in terms of European elite, you have to reach the final stages more often and eventually win the thing which is what Chelsea and City managed within a decade or so of competing at this level. They are now respected European powerhouses in a way PSG aren't yet.

I don't think anyone would dispute that.
What I would dispute is that they are behind a line called 'failure.'

 

[Oranges038]

No idea what the aims were, so hard to know whether or not it's failure.

Haven't won the CL, but, it was always going to be hard, you really can't be used to having the same competitive level or close to it in the CL at the business end when you're not being pushed or challenged properly regularly in your own league. A certain amount of complacency and bad habits that just creep in that you just won't get away with in bigger games. You would imagine that this probably seeps into training too, with players not giving 100% because they know they don't really have to.

I also don't think they'll have the same draw anymore, they have little chance of winning the CL. And they've totally unbalanced their pay structure over the last few years and have ended up with a squad that's just all over the place in terms of balance, quality and experience.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Yes they are, the Qataris have been an example of how to fail in running a football club. Having arguably the best three forwards in the world at one point, paying them record salaries in Europe and losing in the last 16 of the CL twice. Constant stories of poor discipline among star players. Poor strategy in recruitment.

All the while they have squandered Paris having one of the best youth development structures in Europe, ignoring several potential world-class players they could have honed and done just as well anyway if they weren't star chasing.

A complete failure, yet people are hoping they come here.

 

[RVN1991]

They've come a very very long way from where they were when Qatar bought them so no it's not a failed project.

 

[Theonas]

I don't think anyone would dispute that.
What I would dispute is that they are behind a line called 'failure.'

We can't really judge that without knowing what the project is. If the project is to establish themselves as a European elite club, then yes, they are a failure so far. If the target is to put Qatar on the map and a relevant player in the football world, then they have been a great success.

 

[Hammondo]

Bayern Munich won the final that year. That is their only appearance in the last 10 CL finals but surely nobody here is going to try and argue that Bayern Munich have been a failure the last decade.

I think they would say it's not been a good decade for them.

 

[Banana Republic]

The overall project is primarily just another diversification investment.
Qatar have invested heavily in the international film industry, entertainment, hotels and leisure, overseas property and industry.
Sport investment is just another vehicle for investing their vast wealth.

Having bought PSG and built them up into this high profile team, I assume that the long term plan is to build up the clubs global revenue and increase the asset value of the club.
Mind you, you can’t achieve this without a large degree of sporting success on the pitch.
It’s an increase in the asset value of the club, over their investment, that will ultimately decide if the project has been a success or not.
There’s a good reason why the likes of City and PSG were chosen as targets for investment and not RM or Barcelona.

With the amount of investment, they may be prepared to wait for years before the project bears any fruit.
I’ve not bothered to look up if they are making any profits, or ever have so far?

With Utd, the strategy has changed.
The rise in the economic stature of the big clubs, means it would be very difficult these days to turn a backwater team into another giant.
Saudi hope to do it with Newcastle, but will it be anything more than short term success?
So with the rare opportunity of a top club being up for sale, Qatar are going in with seriously big money to buy one of the global giants instead.


.

 

[SportingCP96]

Probably around the same place it's right now and I'm not it's even the 5th best league in Europe.

Was worse then the Portuguese league for a number of years in terms of ranking. PSG alone has pulled them above now.

 

[sglowrider]

Total failure. They didn't even win the French league every season. Biggest waste of money.

Total failure? The fact that we have a thread discussing them is success itself. They have achieved global 'relevance'. Before the Qatari takeover, could you have imagined having a thread discussing them? You would never have seen the PSG jerseys worn anywhere. You do now.

 

[foolsgold]

The problem is that they lack a meaningful domestic rival, the PL has the big derby matches, Spain has Barca / Madrid.

France has nothing comparable. It's inhibited the growth of the club and the league.

 

[RedRonaldo]

There no guarantee any team could win CL, it’s cup competition you just can’t buy it. And theres so much limit building a team in farmers league to challenge for European success.

Apart from that, I think they have done all they could at domestic level.

 

[FrankFoot]

Was worse then the Portuguese league for a number of years in terms of ranking. PSG alone has pulled them above now.

They were 5th the take over, Russian Premier League was 6th not Portugal btw.
Summer 2011 Portuguese league was 10th in the UEFA coefficient behind Romania, Netherlands, Ukraine, and Russia.

PSG didn't pull much, if the rest don't do much, 1 team can't pull enough. France rank got a bit worse after the buy out, that's when Portugal was above for 4 years, then France took it back.

 

[tenpoless]

There no guarantee any team could win CL, it’s cup competition you just can’t buy it. And theres so much limit building a team in farmers league to challenge for European success.

Apart from that, I think they have done all they could at domestic level.

City bought it. Granted through spending a lot of money for a long time.

 

[RedRonaldo]

City bought it. Granted through spending a lot of money for a long time.

It still took them 5 years after winning PL and being best team in the world, and rely on some luck in final game to finally winning it. There’s no guarantee.

For example, Messi being GOAT has been playing with some of the best team mates imaginable, still couldn’t win it over past 8 seasons.

 

[Strelok]

Total failure? The fact that we have a thread discussing them is success itself. They have achieved global 'relevance'. Before the Qatari takeover, could you have imagined having a thread discussing them? You would never have seen the PSG jerseys worn anywhere. You do now.

Agree. Football wise they have obviously failed. But it's true they've jumped from a third tier club to a top one. Nobody gave a feck about PSG back then. Even the Parisians.

 

[Krakenzero]

Was City a failed project 3 years ago? They seemed to be in a similar (maybe worse) situation than today's PSG regarding the UCL, losing against teams like Monaco, Spurs or Lyon. Look at them now.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

PSG is one of the most successful money laundering operations in the world, how could it be considered a failed project?

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Are PSG a failed project for Qatar? Absolutely. Not in sporting term, but in business term. This project failed when Qatar purchased PSG instead of an EPL club (especially in London). In contrast Man City is a big success for Abu Dhabi. Saudi didn't make the same mistake and bought Newcastle, and earned a CL spot in its first full season. I would assume the one of the reason for these oil states to buy soccer clubs is the promote a positive image of the nations, and the viewership for Ligue 1 is just way too low.

 

[stoinz]

They certaintly didn't succeed but they also didn't failed. In terms of sportwashing, they certaintly put Qartar on the map. Sporting results, other than the Champion league I think they won what there is to be won too so can't say they failed there too.

I do think they are badly run in terms of recruitment, players and manager. I believe they can definitely win more if they didn't gave in to player power so much and let the manager do their job.

 

[Red_Aaron]

Are PSG a failed project for Qatar? Absolutely. Not in sporting term, but in business term. This project failed when Qatar purchased PSG instead of an EPL club (especially in London). In contrast Man City is a big success for Abu Dhabi. Saudi didn't make the same mistake and bought Newcastle, and earned a CL spot in its first full season. I would assume the one of the reason for this oil states to buy soccer clubs is the promote a positive image of the nation, and the viewership for Ligue 1 is just way too low.

No doubt they were (are) banking on an ESL whereby owning the top club in one of the world's most iconic capital cities would be a massive draw for players and tourists alike but until that becomes a reality they're 'held back' by ligue 1. The question is will they stick it out for what could be 10-20 years or buy united and sack this one off

They probably also hoped the initial 10 years would then mean they could slow the investment down once established but as you say no one is going to France for anything other than a massive pay check so it's unsustainable

 

[The Boy]

I think where they have failed is that the Qatari investment has failed to bring in other similar bids for French clubs, therefire the league itself remains weak in comparison to England and Spain. PSG's biggest weakness is the lack of competition domestically. Even SJR's investment in Nice didn't touch the sides in terms of comparable spending and squad building.

A stronger league, generates more interest and better players and managers, without that they'll struggle to retain players and compete effectively at European level.

 

[Plastic Evra]

There is probably larger implications to the "project" than pushing a ball on a pitch good but I can't really judge those without being privy to the sort of high politics involved beyond the fact Qatar obviously made large strides as a public facing financial actor in France and PSG.

I think sporting wise it is a failure so far and my own beliefs is that it is based on a flawed, corrupt conception anyway. But football cares little about morality as evidenced by the last decades and perhaps the whole history of professional sports.

There was obviously achievements along the way for them. Easy pickings with unlimited money, you could argue. But achievements nonetheless which not every billionaire's toy can have said to achieve in their respective fields even with unparalleled funding.

They took over a club which had some pedigree and mediatic presence, but an history of inconsistent results and regular internal strife. Admittedly, one that always was somewhat "plastic" since its creation as Paris Saint-Germain (that's Paris for you). Out of that they maxed the club to the full potential and forcibly entered into the current "top teams" club discussion through financial power.

Since in full control they always played the CL and got out of the group stage : 4 quarters, 1 semi and 1 final and 5 times the round of 16 though the latter has become more common since 2016 and marks a regression. There's clearly been a pre & post Neymar/Mbappé era in shaping the team. While perhaps incidental, the first core ultimately blossomed into a more balanced competitive squad even if they hit their ceiling in quarterfinals. Since deciding they wanted to have the two biggest stars possible up top, the quality degraded and shattered the illusion QSI was slowly working towards a more cohesive direction.

One of biggest failures sport-side is failing to implement a real project and stick to it beyond throwing funny money at it. They're burning through coaches and players. The direction has always been far too enamored in getting big names that were way past it (Beckham, Buffon, Ramos perhaps Messi even)... Perhaps in a misguided attempt to correct leadership problems, moreso probably because they crave the publicity.
I don't see any sign of improvement on that front and it will only happen if QSI decide to tighten up funds and be faced with the issue of making their spending efficient. Nasser and QSI are mercurial, way too involved in the public facing operation and bad bosses overall. Internal discipline and professionalism are supposedly way too lax, with the direction encouraging it implicitly or explicitly by showering extensions and wage increases liberally. Wage structure is wack and it would take several years to fix this and the cargo size deadwood they accumulated in the toybox. City, as a direct point of comparison, committed to a project headed by Pep and they did build what is the best team around.

Someone said they squandered the homegrown players (Paris has a massive pool of talent to draw from) and I agree. It's always been a popular talking point way before QSI got in (see the massive Anelka flop that was supposed to be a shift to Paris-born stars) to rely more on it and never truly came to pass except as a cost cutting measure. QSI continues to sell them away and eventually buys some Paris-region born fellas at high prices whenever it's flavor of the day at the board or they're pissed at the foreign stars not cutting it.
They did raise the profile of the academy though, you find a fair few players in current top clubs and the NT. They make a better job selling them too, probably the only bit of sensible business on the recruitment side.

They also paid for a new, state of the art training center. I'm sure it's tied to some real estate dealings on the side but at least that's a net gain for the club, irrespective of owners.

Eventually, and that's my biggest concern, I don't see how it doesn't end up (and it will have to someday) in tears. They could win a CL or two, even for as poor as management is. They almost did already with a not-so-well constructed team. Arguably the club could be in a better position than when they took over the dreadful Colony Capital years after QSI leaves. But I expect there will be a lot of mess too. They made a couple of tangible improvements... But sports side it's all been build on sand and wholly unsustainable without the money hack.

 

[Blackwidow]

Bayern Munich won the final that year. That is their only appearance in the last 10 CL finals but surely nobody here is going to try and argue that Bayern Munich have been a failure the last decade.

Before that period they were in the final three times in four years.

But - let's take the UEFA-Clubranking of the last 10 years:

				13/14	14/15	15/16	16/17	17/18	18/19	19/20	20/21	21/22	22/23	Title Points	Total Points	Country Part
1		Real Madrid	Esp	35.00	29.00	33.00	33.00	32.00	19.00	17.00	26.00	30.00	29.00	94.00	377.000	39.999
2		Bayern München	Ger	27.00	28.00	29.00	22.00	29.00	20.00	36.00	27.00	26.00	27.00	43.00	314.000	30.781
3		FC Barcelona	Esp	24.00	34.00	26.00	23.00	25.00	30.00	24.00	20.00	15.00	9.00	41.00	271.000	39.999
4		Manchester City	Eng	19.00	15.00	26.00	18.00	22.00	25.00	25.00	35.00	27.00	33.00	13.00	258.000	37.835
5		Juventus	Ita	23.00	29.00	18.00	33.00	23.00	21.00	22.00	21.00	20.00	17.00	17.00	244.000	31.635
6		Chelsea	Eng	25.00	21.00	18.00		18.00	30.00	17.00	33.00	25.00	21.00	28.00	236.000	37.835
7		Atlético Madrid	Esp	33.00	22.00	28.00	29.00	28.00	20.00	22.00	16.00	19.00	8.00	7.00	232.000	39.999
8		Liverpool	Eng		10.00	22.00		30.00	29.00	18.00	24.00	33.00	19.00	40.00	225.000	37.835
9		Paris Saint-Germain	Fra	25.00	21.00	24.00	20.00	19.00	19.00	31.00	24.00	19.00	19.00	2.00	223.000	23.515
10		Sevilla	Esp	22.00	28.00	23.00	19.00	21.00	13.00	26.00	19.00	12.00	21.00	16.00	220.000	39.999

PSG only is 9th in that...

 

[matherto]

Think they'll be better off this season without Messi and Mbappe even if it sounds ridiculous.

If they can actually build a team instead of having three superstars up top that contribute nothing to the balance and get some hard workers in then Enrique is a good hand to guide it.

 

[VARsenal]

In a sporting sense thatyve definitely failed. The only worthwhile achievement they could have a achieved is the Champions League and they've failed at that and at this stage their team seems to be going backwards in terms of quality with ffp and the owners not likely willing to splash in the same manner as they did when they arrived. France was such a weird league for Qatar to have chosen for this project considering the French league has never been lucrative and their arrival has certainly not made things much better for the rest of the league, they could have bought a club in the PL or LA liga and done so much better commercially.

 

[Castia]

Nope

PSG‘s claim to fame for the 30 years prior to Qatar was having Ronaldinho play for them. I think they had 1 league title in their entire history.

Sure not everything has gone smoothly but they are among the best teams in Europe and have completely dominated in France. Without Qatar PSG would most likely be a mid to lower league ranked team

France have a very high rate of top young players they should have completely captured that market I think that’s where they’ve failed.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Before that period they were in the final three times in four years.

But - let's take the UEFA-Clubranking of the last 10 years:

PSG only is 9th in that...

PSG are 6th in the 5-year club coefficient, which is the most relevant one. The 5 clubs above them are the ones who've won the CL in the last 5 years.

 

[Bebestation]

If you can’t win with Messi then that says a lot in many ways.