We have a squad which is better than watford but nowhere near the quality of city or liverpool aa clearly demonstrated by our league position.
It is very simple really, most years we are fighting to finish in the top 4
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Appointing Solskjaer was a mistake
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It is very simple really, most years we are fighting to finish in the top 4
At a guess I would suggest that once he got the job he started to tell players to begin looking for clubs and get outta here in the summer.
It's a case of having to grin and bear it now for 3 more games.
I don't think we had much of a choice. Ole was winning left, right and centre. If the club signed someone else at that point then that manager would have been constantly compared to Ole with questions being raised on why we hasn't given him a shot. It happened to Chelsea a few years back with Di Matteo who needed to prove himself as a failure before being sacked.
Nevertheless I doubt anyone can succeed at this club. We have no football people at board level which means that the club is poorly managed. Meanwhile the squad is unsuited for the high expectations set
Nevertheless I doubt anyone can succeed at this club. We have no football people at board level which means that the club is poorly managed. Meanwhile the squad is unsuited for the high expectations set
Chelsea waited until Di Matteo had won the FA Cup and Champions League, he did not get the perm job after a few wins.
We are so far away from success, just watch our players trying to defend or attack for that matter.
More likely that the players maximised being released from jose plus playing for their future.
Then a mixture of tough games, lack of top end fitness and settling back into the comfort zone bringing them down.
The "new manager bounce" indeed.
Thats where the upturn came from alright but that was an unrealistic level to continue at as well with this squad.
It's no coincidence the dip lines up almost to the day with him getting the job permanently. I'd say the likes of Lukaku, Sanchez, Matic, Valencia all know their time is up. Add in Herrera & Mata deals running out as well... Huge upheaval is around the corner and they aren't happy coasting by on cushy numbers now.
City and Liverpool has many top players and also has two of the best managers in Europe. We do have many good players and could do with having one of the best managers in Europe too.
That is why there is a training ground. You train on how to attack and how to defend. Attacking and defending cannot be bought, they are coached.
Many of those players have been on the training pitch since Fergie's time, you can't teach old dogs new tricks
We have Sanchez and Martial on long term deals, there will be plenty of coasting next year no matter what happens.
True but the positive vibe was pretty much the same
I like Ole I really do, but I have to play Devils advocate here. I've seen people here saying that he should be given the summer window to bring his own players in. But what makes you confident that he will bring in the right players? If Ed gives him £200mil+ to spend on his own players how is that any different to LVG and Jose did?
Jose was able to build a title winning teams but came here and couldn't do it, so what makes you think Ole will succeed in that department? I'm not knocking Ole this is just a genuine question.
Jose was able to build a title winning teams but came here and couldn't do it, so what makes you think Ole will succeed in that department? I'm not knocking Ole this is just a genuine question.
No manager is going to rebuild this team with £ 200 million, it would be a huge ask for Pep or Klopp even with 400 million
The problem with LVG and Mou was that they were at the end of their careers. LVG was very close to retirement while we all know that Mou would want to manage Portugal very soon. Anyway they couldn't bother wasting time developing a team. All they wanted was to win and end up their career on high.
Ole's problems will be similar to Moyes's. He will aim to bring in top talent but they won't bother signing with him as they rather be managed by Pep or Klopp then the Molde/Cardiff boy.
Of course we had a choice, it's not like Ole was going to be snapped up by anyone else, no offence to Molde but they could have been kept waiting a few weeks longer without too much problem, and if we'd have been doing our job properly we'd have been properly looking elsewhere at other managers right through that winning run.
If they'd waited, then they would have had the chance to still hire Ole at the end of the season after this dreadful run, and not just look like they just did it because he had such a good start, if they'd done that then it would have shown real faith, but now it just looks like a mistake, and us been naive in making the appointment too early, and there is no escaping that now.
Liverpool finished fourth, spent £171m and are now up there with City.
The issue here is that we've got a team which is largely made up of players who are shit, they are paid huge salaries, they know that they were lucky joining us and they would throw anyone under the bus to extend the stay here. Now if Ole remained as a temp then these players would have done anything to keep him in the role. He wouldn't be a threat to them whatsoever and they would want to impress the new manager enough to give them a second chance. Once Ole became a permanent manager and he started talking about survival of the fittest and the best, the mood shifted. Ole became the enemy and our results nosedived.
I do blame the club but not in the way you do. We should have appointed the DOF as soon as Mou was at the door (probably even earlier then that. If Mou didn't like it then tough, it would be one more thing for him to moan about). That would have brought the message through that no matter how many managers these team will throw under the bus, there's always someone whose watching them, making notes, and pushing them out. Also, the board needed to embrace the fact that a huge immediate staff turnover was imminent. We keep talking about the United way but when Sir Alex came to United he made a clean sweep. Between 1988 and 1989 he bought 11 players and that was a time when squads were way smaller then they are now. You don't dilly dally with bad weed. You just uproot it and burn it.
We can’t judge whether it was a mistake while the team is in such a mess.
A mix of fergie, van gaal and Jose players that just don’t fit or aren’t good enough. The scale of the mess is incredible and almost any manager would find this tough.
We’ll only know if it was a mistake when we’re into the next season and we can see the direction we’re heading in. This really is the most important transfer window I can ever remember. Absolutely crucial that there are some big changes. Not only that but they simply have to be the right changes too, no more mistakes in personnel. We can’t keep going this way and expect to be regarded as one of the worlds biggests clubs.
A mix of fergie, van gaal and Jose players that just don’t fit or aren’t good enough. The scale of the mess is incredible and almost any manager would find this tough.
We’ll only know if it was a mistake when we’re into the next season and we can see the direction we’re heading in. This really is the most important transfer window I can ever remember. Absolutely crucial that there are some big changes. Not only that but they simply have to be the right changes too, no more mistakes in personnel. We can’t keep going this way and expect to be regarded as one of the worlds biggests clubs.
£200mil is enough if the person spending it is shrewd, there are good players available that have cheap release clauses, Brandt £25mil, Alderweireld £25mil, Menuier £25-30mil. That's £80mil on 3 positions as an example, we need to be making shrewd signings like this for the money to strectch.
Agree totally with this. We are miles away from being in a place where one or two mega signings will help. Shrewd signings needed all over the pitch.
Yikes. As if a football training ground is meant for just learning new tricks. No wonder the players always look like they are just meeting each other for the first time. No teamwork, no organization.
To be honest I'm not buying all this players stepping up, and then just falling back to been crap after Ole got the full time job, I just don't see how things work like that.
You are absolutely right about the DOF though, we were told this was one of Jose's major issues, he didn't want one, so where the hell are they now?
I know we lurch from one mess to the next atm, but this is all so self inflicted, and was so avoidable, give him the job at the end of the season to show you believe in him, or don't and be perfectly justified in the decision, then we all have something to hang our hat on, but there is no positive now, we just look badly run, and naive in the extreme, so the negative cycle begins again.
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I think that this transfer window is going to be very very significant. Mourinho would have spoken to the board, including SAF, and Ole would have done the same. The board will know who the culprits are in the dressing room who are a negative influence. This time I am certain the club will work with SAF and Ole to bring in the correct personnel, and there will be a ruthlessness explaining to certain players we have, that there is no future here for them. A big big shake up is coming I think.
We'd easily be able to spend £600M in the transfer window. Money is not the problem, it's making those players gel as a team.
I don't think that is true but it will carry on being thought that way.
Ole was appointed manager on the 28th March. We lost to Wolves on the 16th March, lost to Arsenal on the 10th. Had a lucky win against Southampton at home on the 2nd, it was very reminiscent of the 3-2 home wins under Jose with us going a goal down early and looking desperate for long spells. We also lost to PSG at home.
I'd say the unraveling happened a nearly month before.
Players did play with freedom when Ole came, new manager bounce but we saw lots of passing, Pogba linking up with Martial. Ole was often talking about quick passing and entertaining the fans in his early days here, players expressing themselves. We clawed the points back and then we had something to lose now. Injuries happened. Getting to the end of the season we also have contracts not being signed, some players looking elsewhere for next season. Ole has also tightened up with his setup and the talk of passing and flair has long disappeared from Ole. We're launching it to Rashford and seeing Martial trying to beat three defenders again.
He shouldn't have been given the job until the summer. It should've been explained to Ole that there are no guarantees regardless of results (but with the quiet understanding that he should be planning for next season).
This has been a terrible run of results, and it all feels a little like we're just shifting the blame around. Now it's Ed's and the Glazer's fault again (for presumably allowing huge spending and basically making basically smart managerial appointments...?! I know, I know, they're sucking the life......he's a clueless banker......yada yada). Yeah, they're far from perfect. Sure, we'd like to be owned by a multi-multi billionaire who somehow made their money curing disease and liberating the oppressed, and obviously we'd like the perfect DOF....but this owner doesn't exist, and who do you effectively trust enough to put the success of the club on their shoulders? Yes it needs sorting (and has done for a while, I agree), but it's not easy, and right now it's not the direct cause of our shitness. (I know we can go round and round here!).
I think it's far simpler. Ole's in charge now, and he needs to get these players playing. Wolves, Everton, West Ham FFS. These are decent teams, but they're just decent. Well coached, good players, but hardly world beaters. All teams lose games, but the way we're performing... He needs to step up. Half of coaching is lighting a fire under players, getting them inspired, getting them focused. It worries me that he's let it all fall away so quickly. The players, the players, the players. I'm not fecking having it. Yes, Young and Lingard don't offer much and shouldn't be starting, but come the feck on. Find a way. So we're the 6th best squad in the league eh? fecking show it then. Why are we getting shown up by everyone?!
Maybe it's just a dip in form...I'm probably just a bit pissed off in general, and I am excited for the summer and next season.. I just feel we've jumped the gun on the back of a dozen results. Fingers crossed for tomorrow, but I'm more worried than I have been in a while.
Rant over.
This has been a terrible run of results, and it all feels a little like we're just shifting the blame around. Now it's Ed's and the Glazer's fault again (for presumably allowing huge spending and basically making basically smart managerial appointments...?! I know, I know, they're sucking the life......he's a clueless banker......yada yada). Yeah, they're far from perfect. Sure, we'd like to be owned by a multi-multi billionaire who somehow made their money curing disease and liberating the oppressed, and obviously we'd like the perfect DOF....but this owner doesn't exist, and who do you effectively trust enough to put the success of the club on their shoulders? Yes it needs sorting (and has done for a while, I agree), but it's not easy, and right now it's not the direct cause of our shitness. (I know we can go round and round here!).
I think it's far simpler. Ole's in charge now, and he needs to get these players playing. Wolves, Everton, West Ham FFS. These are decent teams, but they're just decent. Well coached, good players, but hardly world beaters. All teams lose games, but the way we're performing... He needs to step up. Half of coaching is lighting a fire under players, getting them inspired, getting them focused. It worries me that he's let it all fall away so quickly. The players, the players, the players. I'm not fecking having it. Yes, Young and Lingard don't offer much and shouldn't be starting, but come the feck on. Find a way. So we're the 6th best squad in the league eh? fecking show it then. Why are we getting shown up by everyone?!
Maybe it's just a dip in form...I'm probably just a bit pissed off in general, and I am excited for the summer and next season.. I just feel we've jumped the gun on the back of a dozen results. Fingers crossed for tomorrow, but I'm more worried than I have been in a while.
Rant over.
He shouldn't have been given the job until the summer. It should've been explained to Ole that there are no guarantees regardless of results (but with the quiet understanding that he should be planning for next season).
This has been a terrible run of results, and it all feels a little like we're just shifting the blame around. Now it's Ed's and the Glazer's fault again (for presumably allowing huge spending and basically making basically smart managerial appointments...?! I know, I know, they're sucking the life......he's a clueless banker......yada yada). Yeah, they're far from perfect. Sure, we'd like to be owned by a multi-multi billionaire who somehow made their money curing disease and liberating the oppressed, and obviously we'd like the perfect DOF....but this owner doesn't exist, and who do you effectively trust enough to put the success of the club on their shoulders? Yes it needs sorting (and has done for a while, I agree), but it's not easy, and right now it's not the direct cause of our shitness. (I know we can go round and round here!).
I think it's far simpler. Ole's in charge now, and he needs to get these players playing. Wolves, Everton, West Ham FFS. These are decent teams, but they're just decent. Well coached, good players, but hardly world beaters. All teams lose games, but the way we're performing... He needs to step up. Half of coaching is lighting a fire under players, getting them inspired, getting them focused. It worries me that he's let it all fall away so quickly. The players, the players, the players. I'm not fecking having it. Yes, Young and Lingard don't offer much and shouldn't be starting, but come the feck on. Find a way. So we're the 6th best squad in the league eh? fecking show it then. Why are we getting shown up by everyone?!
Maybe it's just a dip in form...I'm probably just a bit pissed off in general, and I am excited for the summer and next season.. I just feel we've jumped the gun on the back of a dozen results. Fingers crossed for tomorrow, but I'm more worried than I have been in a while.
Rant over.
You try lighting a fire under Martial, Pogba, Lukaku, Matic et al and see how it takes.
Their fire protection lining is very extensive
Why have you quoted me in this?
Yeah we should have waited the full 6 months and gone all in for Poch if Ole didn't make it here. His start was incredibly, but now our form is abysmal. We are going into another season with a questionable manager. Not sure how many quality players will believe in our project and how many of our best players want to stay.
Would Poch still come if we sacked Ole?
Would Poch still come if we sacked Ole?
To date the problem is having the quality of players to gel as a team, once we get the players then that will be the next issue.
But we won't. Glazers arent necessarily stingy anymore, but we're not going to spend that kind of money. Would be surprised if we spent 200 mil.
Keep Ashley young on the training ground, night and day till Christmas and he still won't be able to cross a ball. That's just the sad reality of where we are, our transfer dealings have been abysmal for nearly a decade now.
I can see Sanchez being shipped out, his deal terminated if needs be.
The Arsenal loss was quite unfortunate. I mean Arsenal's goals were a massive deflected goal and a penalty. I didn't see the FA Cup match vs Wolves, but the more recent loss to them was also quite unfortunate.
At the point of being given the job he'd only lost 3 games in 19, since his appointment he has now lost 5 in 7 matches. It's a complete 180 from the point of being given the job isn't it?
I'd suggest in the run up to that international break and Ole getting the job players learned of what was happening with him getting the job and started to down tools on him.
Has Ole been perfect? Nope. He's learning and quite tactically naive but he's inherited an absolute mess.
There's no quick fixes here, I don't know if Ole is the right man to get us there myself. I've serious concerns going into next season but I don't blame him at all currently cause its not his team at all. He deserves the summer / pre season to build his team and then next season before definite assertions are made about his ability for the role.
Mourinho spent net £300 million since summer 2016.
Klopp spent £120 million since summer 2016.
Source: Sky Sports
Klopp is a phenomenal manager and so is Guardiola. I’m still to see it from Ole, I support him 100% but he has a lot to learn!
It’s the principals of managing, small and big. Here is an example:
Following a press meeting, Guardiola stood upp and arranged his chair. A player was with him on that press meeting and that player stood up and starting moving towards the exit. Guardiola suggestively pointed towards the player’s chair. The player had a small “wups” moment and arranged it immediately. No words were exhanged. Guardiola and the player then left. Not many noticed this or thought much of it.
Days later, Ole was in a press meeting. When the meeting ended he stood up and immediately exited. He left the chair away from the table, unarranged.
I’ve seen details like these with Klopp too.
Although a very small detail, it’s one that explains an important habit that explains attitude. See the difference and how something so minor can explain a different style or type of managing?
Unfortunately, I think you are spot on with this scenario mate!
Its clear that the club has not learned any lessons from the end of the Busby era and so its rinse and repeat, and it will continue until someone switches the machine off... last time the equivalent of 'switching the machine off' was our descent into Division Two of the old Football League.
Before people tell me there is no one still around at the club from that era, there is a United Museum, and the club records and God knows how many books written about that period... perhaps there is no one at the club who can read and interpret??
Lots of points there. Liverpool's low net spend is due to the huge transfer fees they received and yes they bought very well with the money. Other than Pogba I don't see anyone spending big money on our players in fact we will be subsidising their wages after they go.
No disputing that Jose wasted a huge transfer spend so of course it isn't about the size of your transfer wad but how you use.
I like your observation and it does suggest a significant attention to detail but I respectfully suggest that all involved may have a bit of OCD and that condition doesn't always correlate with managerial success.
We are destined for mediocrity. I've come to terms with it. Much easier that way.
Why would any manager want to join a club that shows so little faith in a manager who is a club legend.
You'd be asking Poch to leave a stronger squad than he has, take over what is essentially a rabble, and always wonder if he's a few matches away from losing his job.
The only downside I see to Ole is he lacks a plan B and C.
Many times have we seen the team get embarrassed in the first half, only to come out and continue with wasteful gameplay.
Still love Ole
Many times have we seen the team get embarrassed in the first half, only to come out and continue with wasteful gameplay.
Still love Ole
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