This. This is exactly like when Liverpool appointed Dalglish. At least Dalglish had experience.
Appointing Solskjaer was a mistake
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Blaa blaa blaa, point that points this! Useless to banter over 4 months of data and results, the only thing we know for sure is that the team is not good enough. As we did at the start of the season. We know that Solksjaers mind is right, and that his heart is at the right place (I kind of like that passion he has) and that we played some of the best football United has played in six years under him. He is also talking about the right things:what it should mean to play for united and seems to realize that this team is not nearly good enough to challenge and where it has to get better. Whether he has the managerial ability is another thing, that we do not know yet. Lets give him a fair chance (cant go much worse than the past six years huh?) and hope that Woodward or whoever the f*ck is responsible for the failing player investments in this club gets the boot or improves a lot.
Yeah because that's how things work. You can just walk into any huge institution with it's already pre-established culture and magically wave your little rod about then watch as everyone and everything folds into place exactly how you'd imagined it within a couple of months - without letting anyone go or bringing in some new faces even. If that's your experience in life then you've either lived a very sheltered one or been way luckier than most - in fact I'd say you're spoiled rotten. It won't even work like that when you take charge of your local convenience store - far less at a huge enterprise such as Manchester United Football Club.
His job this season has been saving what he can from the scraps left to him by the previous regime while at the same time learning who's what and which ones aren't plus where everyone and everything is at - and also getting the most from players who are either over the top and incapable of adapting - not quite up to standards ("yet" at least some of them are young and personally I have high hopes) - or not motivated to perform properly because their hearts have already moved on / never truly settled here. This isn't his squad - it's not even a squad worthy of fighting in the top (hasn't been for years) - and due to these circumstances it's unable to play his preferred style of football. He's already elaborated on this himself even - told us how he wants us to play and explained why he's unable to do so at this point - so why make that argument in the first place - that he has no style?
He needs to shape his own team and he's stuck with having to compromise and learn things on they fly the best he can until he's done that. Oh and guess what - even Klopp agrees with this. When asked about Solskjær his reply was "Of course he needs time". And that's "of course" because you don't have to be someone of Klopp's caliber to see it - it is something you'd expect being obvious for anyone.
I don't know what a "top red" rant is by the way - but I do recognize a bottom-feeder's lack of perspective when I see it - plus their tendency towards just repeating the same drivel over and over again without taking into consideration any objections already made against it - and also their selective reasoning. Maybe Solskjær fails - maybe he'll succeed. Only time will tell to be honest but we should all agree at least - since we are supporters after all - that hoping he doesn't make a mess of things and doing our part by motivating both him and his squad the best we can is what benefits this club and it's reputation. Gain the reputation of a hostile and somewhat demented crowd and you can kiss any chance of getting big names here goodbye whether it be players or managers and also abandon any hope of having them perform their best.
Because nobody wants to play before someone completely obnoxious and depraved of all their senses and even if they do they sure as Hell won't go that extra 5-10% needed in order to become champions just to please them.
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They are professionals, how's about they pick themselves up for 1 million pounds a month?
Fergie is too old and not in good enough health.
Fergie always used to say that the great thing about football was that you quickly had a chance to redeem yourselves after bad losses etc.
Ole has a great chance here. Hoping to see a strong end to the season.
Fergie always used to say that the great thing about football was that you quickly had a chance to redeem yourselves after bad losses etc.
Ole has a great chance here. Hoping to see a strong end to the season.
Mou's transfers was admysal. Also he was losing the same dressing room he built. We can't have a manager who keeps asking us to strengthen the same positions he had just strengthened
You mean like pep did? He bought players that didn’t work out, and he replaced them the very next year. No one said he should be sacked. The huge difference is that pep already had a title winning team. He didn’t win anything his first year. Jose got us a couple of trophies with a largely average team. He got us 2nd the next year. Instead of backing him to push on to try win the league, we cut the legs out from under. I know people say he sabotaged us, but can you hand on heart say Jose is that type of man? He wants to win to his detriment.
The performances of late have been exact replicas of how we were toward the end of Jose’s time here. I can’t imagine ole is telling them to play like that. And since Jose isn’t here, that only leaves them. So I’m not sure Jose is/was the only problem we had this year.
I agree with all your opinions in that post. I read the situation similarly. We're far behind now and have wasted at least a couple of transfer-windows by second guessing with our managers. We'll either have to fire Ole immediately and hire Poch, or stick with Ole but we do have to run with the manager 100%, no half measures.
We have wasted the last 8 windows by allowing managers to throw away 700 plus million on players that have not performed, Jose being the biggest culprit by far.
Couldnt agree more.
That is the hollywood version, which is also true. What I referred to more specifically was the notion that our CEO think he senses weakness and makes half measures based on partial information. Saves money in one instance, then something happens that changes his opinion which leads to panicking and invests over the top money in the last minute with no insurance or scouting. That is also the hollywood version but you get my point. The last windows we should have sold Rojo, Jones, Darmian etc but we have procrastinated so long it is ridiculous it becomes too much business to do in one window, sooner or later we'll have to make a gigantic window or we'll be stuck for years the way things are going.
If we do not persist with the current manager in the predicament he now finds himself in, then why even bother to appoint him?
The hope here is that Ole is more like Pep and Zidane, the similarity being they all had great success coming up from coaching the youth setup and imparting the club culture. The other similarity for both their successes is having one of the two greatest footballers of the last 30 years, arguably of all time.
Ole doesn't have that luxury, let alone a squad even close to the quality of those two. And let's not forget that even with Ronaldo, Zidane's Madrid was not so successful domestically. And Pep, well his post-Messi titles have all come at clubs that were stacked in comparison to their domestic rivals, with European success absent since. And for all the hyperbole praise about all conquering City, they beat records set just the year before by Conte's Chelsea, with a team that should have been three times champion if Pep were so great.
That is to say, the expectations of what Ole will accomplish here are delusional. I'm first in line to live in this daydream...that's just my romantic sense overtaking sensibility.
Sigh. I forgot about that example...
While I'm one of the delusional many dreaming of Ole conquering all, I won't get that carried away. All of that wonderful stuff comes in time, maybe the second season if things align. This season should be considered nothing more than a wash. I think it's equally wrong to praise Ole for the teams long winning run as it is their rut. The man has been here just a few months, and there's only so much he can do from a tactical and personnel standpoint. If we make Top 4 that's a bonus. If we don't, you can't hold the fire to Ole about it in the slightest. Start fresh and hold the same lofty standards for the manager come next season, with perhaps some leeway for being Ole. Second season is when it is make or break, especially if transfers are to his liking.
I take your points and agree he has to back him now, but do either of them really appreciate the scale of the rebuilding that is required?
It’s probable that Ole was hired as the ‘easy’ choice - someone who’s glad for the job, therefore undemanding - also, a legend whom the fans love and someone that ‘knows the club’...obviously the initial results were also a big factor.
I think it’ll backfire on Woodward - Ole doesn’t appear to be someone that’s going to just be ‘grateful’ and is putting pressure for new signings and deadwood to be let go. The fans are never going to turn on him and it’s very likely if the ‘rebuild’ isn’t funded/supported, it could get very ugly quickly. It’s going to be an interesting few months.
I think it’ll backfire on Woodward - Ole doesn’t appear to be someone that’s going to just be ‘grateful’ and is putting pressure for new signings and deadwood to be let go. The fans are never going to turn on him and it’s very likely if the ‘rebuild’ isn’t funded/supported, it could get very ugly quickly. It’s going to be an interesting few months.
We do know Ole is a sensible guy, so I think he knows that. I don't think he can afford to walk around like he owns the place saying everything he thinks or feels, but I do think he is one of the more sensible characters to come out of this club, probably why SAF loves him.
Ole is in a bit of a pickle. He got the job on the basis that Mourinho were underperforming with the players at his disposal. At the least, that narrative was a contributing factor. His application for the job consisted of good football and he delivered not only that but results. The idea that these players had a level in them we never saw before really did confirm the previous narrative, and with all the added benefits it landed him the job. Ole came in and changed the narrative completely.
These players are now good enough. I'm sure Ed believed. Ed looked for the advised solution, the right one as I don't think he has no idea about football. Before Ole came in, we all really knew we needed to fresh up a lot or even rebuild most of the squad not only due to lack of quality but also due to a few ageing players, contracts running down etc. Ed wasting windows leads me to believe he thinks he is just very unlucky with appointing managers, and puts all the blame on them, and his only weak decision is appointing them. I don't think he realises that wholesale changes sometimes are needed, or at least big changes. Likely the same will happen with Ole. Some new narrative or scenario will appear in a year that makes it all about his flaws and weaknesses and less about our continuous problems.
Ole got the job of the narrative that the squad is almost good enough, and he is the man to make the most of it. He will have to face the pressure of being held to that expectation most likely, both from the CEO, players and fans. If he is to change the fortunes of this club, he will have to change this narrative some way, slowly down the road because if he doesn't he'll not make it. We all know the changes needed run deeper than a few big money signings at this point. He'll talk his talk to keep Ed happy and gently make him realise it is a process. Sad thing is Ed has heard that "process" word before and is probably suspect of everything that has to do with time at this point, so If Ed doesn't fully believe in him his qualities or lack of doesn't matter in the slightest. I think he'll likely believe for a bit longer then flip flop when a narrative arrives.
Mou was better, right?
And the guy who has lost 12 PL matches would have been better, right?
And the guy who has lost 12 PL matches would have been better, right?
He is?
Hasn't he handed out new contracts to Young and Jones, and consistently stated that this is a great squad full of quality...?
Better than who?
Who would have been better?
Well quite a few journalists/ people who have dealt with him have said he’s not the ‘soft’ character he might appear. He’s also talked the talk of ‘survival of the fittest’ and that a lot of players are In danger of being let go.
The Young/Jones but appears to have been added after I started the reply but you can probably put that down to the club protecting investment and saving money. In either case, he has put his neck on the line - if it doesn’t happen than either he wasn’t backed or his decisions will earn him, the sack. So we’ll at least know who is to blame.
He has to make due with what he's got. That was the criteria for the job, sadly. He has to balance a rebuild in there somehow, not that I support signing those players on. It is fecking stupid. But, I don't think he went out of his way to sign these guys, I think the decision was made after conversations about transfers this summer with Ed. We have procrastinated so much that making 10 changes at once would be the option needed, of which they did not go with. Also it was kinda forced on him to resign a few duds as a lot of contracts were being stalled. His job sucks.
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The guy who, so far, has lost 12 PL games. Right?
I have no idea what you are talking about. I just assumed you might have been responding to me, I think I was wrong, I apologise.
Pochettino, man, I was talking about Pochettino, a manager who has lost 12 PL so far this season.
Hardly impressive credentials.
Ole will be fine. It's a shit scenario but he clearly gets what's needed.
Hell leave us better than he found us
Hell leave us better than he found us
Ole has destroyed him in the league since he took over. Jose just left him too far behind. Facts
Thanks. I get the feeling we might have crossed paths before on this subject of which I have forgot and that is why I'm oblivious to all this, sorry. Yes, Pochettino is a very good manager. He has certainly proved a few things late this season as well, imo. Been very flexible. But I don't see how Pochettino wouldn't be facing the same obstacles as Ole does. He is not a magic dream manager who solves everything.
Christ, it was irony guys, irony!
In my book, a manager that loses 12 PL games is not good-reliable enough for Man Utd.
In my book, a manager that loses 12 PL games is not good-reliable enough for Man Utd.
Ole has a long, long way to go before he can be compared to Pochettino. I love Ole and everything but he has little top level experience and has just lost 7 out of 9 games and has an absolute massive/difficult rebuild job to negotiate.
This 'destroyed' Pochettino in the league business is just misplaced arrogance IMO. OGS needs time (maybe 3+ years) and support/backing to compete with the teams above him - this attitude of 'without Mourinho, we'll be up there' is completely misguided IMO.
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Such a weird time for that, since we're doing pretty well at the moment. But I expected it.
So in conclusion, Ince was right.
Russia? What are you on about?
It is not even marginally justifiable to call for a managers head 4 months in, with none of his players having been signed, with no pre-season. It is completely and totally moronic. It is idiotic. It is verging on lunacy. It may actually be a sign of some form of retardation.
This thread is fucking awful, and we've all been made more stupid for having to sift through this complete and total bollocks.
Our fans are so impatient. The everton game was the only true humilation in this bad run that started in March, compared to his good form that started in December. In this run, we have played Arsenal, City, and Barcelona twice. We have also lost twice to wolves ( who seem to pick up points against alot of good sides) and Everton. The poor run is a little bit overstated.
Aside from that, we all knew the issue this squad had from Mourinho. In addition, our issues only started when we were forced to rotate the squad due to injuries and fatigue, so that also tells you whats wrong. We have real fitness issues in the squad, that even a top manager like Mourinho could not handle. We also have a really weak bench and holes in the first 11 that everyone knows about. The idea here was to see who we would keep and who would be let go by the end of the season, and somehow we have found ourselves fighting for top 4 where it did not seem possible. For me, there is too much worry about him being perfect for the role, when he has already shown what his plans are. When fit, he plans to have a defence comfortable on the ball, a pressing team with a combative midfield, and an attack that uses a lot of pace. Similar to Arsenals classic invincible team in terms of philosophy. We need to let him do this, both the fans and the board. This is the first time we have truly had a manager willing to rebuild the team with us, both LVG and Mourinho were more focused on their legacies. So lets give him a chances and stop jumping the gun.
Aside from that, we all knew the issue this squad had from Mourinho. In addition, our issues only started when we were forced to rotate the squad due to injuries and fatigue, so that also tells you whats wrong. We have real fitness issues in the squad, that even a top manager like Mourinho could not handle. We also have a really weak bench and holes in the first 11 that everyone knows about. The idea here was to see who we would keep and who would be let go by the end of the season, and somehow we have found ourselves fighting for top 4 where it did not seem possible. For me, there is too much worry about him being perfect for the role, when he has already shown what his plans are. When fit, he plans to have a defence comfortable on the ball, a pressing team with a combative midfield, and an attack that uses a lot of pace. Similar to Arsenals classic invincible team in terms of philosophy. We need to let him do this, both the fans and the board. This is the first time we have truly had a manager willing to rebuild the team with us, both LVG and Mourinho were more focused on their legacies. So lets give him a chances and stop jumping the gun.
You are taking this way too serious mate. Just use ignore thread.
Not taking it seriously at all mate. Quite the opposite, this thread has given me some good laughs. For all the wrong reasons though.
Just making the very valid point that this thread is an absolute shambles and that the OP should feel ashamed.
There is no fair way to pass judgement on a manager after 4 months. Maybe, if OGS had literally showed up in Carrington with a shotgun and started firing at random, then this thread wouldn't be quite such a shining exemplar of mental illness. He hasn't though.
I agree, this squad is not his and the board must back him in this window.
I agree it's shocking that some are calling for him to be sacked already. It's a shame our good run had to end and turn into such horrendous form instead. It was so positive on here when things were going well and now back to all the negativity that will probably carry on throughout the whole summer..
it's whether he can handle a team not good enough to epl. it took klopp 4 years. he is under pressure already
he needs a win... badly. for example, suppose he were to fail to to get a win out of these remaining games, then yes he would be sacked. he cannot afford to get into some draw, loss, draw, loss, loss, draw... rhythm
to be manager of unted is a dream come true for him and so trust me inside he is feeling the pressure
he needs a win... badly. for example, suppose he were to fail to to get a win out of these remaining games, then yes he would be sacked. he cannot afford to get into some draw, loss, draw, loss, loss, draw... rhythm
to be manager of unted is a dream come true for him and so trust me inside he is feeling the pressure
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The issue is that when he started he gave the mob hope. It is most dangerous thing a fan base can have early on
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It wasn't a mistake or rather it's yet to be proven as one. I don't care if people laugh. Jose couldn't do it. Louis couldn't do it....United is based on key principles but the problem is the owners and the current climate. It's hard to compete with these oil clubs because most people are fundamentally greedy. They have no concept of the average person and the values that existed in the past no longer apply. We need time to build. We need players. We need to move players on and we need to bring in players and we need to create stability. All these things take time. You cannot condense everything. What we've seen is a team Ole inherited. We made a good push to get back into Europe. We have to try to see that through.
If you look at our issues we've plenty because it's easier to keep giving average players who don't have the right mentality contracts, then to ship them out and bring in someone better. It's easy to talk of value in the market as a disguise for the fact you can't compete no matter how many sponsorship deals are brought in. We need a bit of common sense. People talk about how much we spend but other clubs spend big too and their foundations are stronger because the investment in the football is always there. Get the players off social media. Sell the rotten apples (those who aren't good enough). If they are good enough get p/x to bolster squad depth. Bring in hungry players and people who are brave. Right now we should focus on trying to get this champions league spot.
If you look at our issues we've plenty because it's easier to keep giving average players who don't have the right mentality contracts, then to ship them out and bring in someone better. It's easy to talk of value in the market as a disguise for the fact you can't compete no matter how many sponsorship deals are brought in. We need a bit of common sense. People talk about how much we spend but other clubs spend big too and their foundations are stronger because the investment in the football is always there. Get the players off social media. Sell the rotten apples (those who aren't good enough). If they are good enough get p/x to bolster squad depth. Bring in hungry players and people who are brave. Right now we should focus on trying to get this champions league spot.
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