Appointing Solskjaer was a mistake

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Vadim said:
Martial is overrated to feck, don’t let the fanboys fool you.

De Gea gets into your team with Pogba. That’s it.
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Maybe, but Lucas is hardly the second coming of Jesus either.

He's got 10 goals (same as Lucas) in significantly less games, there's definitely a solid argument that he could start for us out wide .. or at least get a solid amount of games. Either that or Rashford out wide.
 
Leftback99 said:
Is Shaw better than Rose? What at?
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Defending, 100%.

Maybe Shaw wouldn't start because of our system (which requires very attacking, technically gifted fullbacks or wingbacks when we go 5atb) but I do think he's a better player than Rose as of now.
 
Vadim said:
What’s your masterplan then? Sack Ole now. Appoint who? Don’t say Poch, he’s happy at Spurs.

Too much Fifa mode for some of you, it’s not as black and white as you make out. The club is in shite from the very top, the Glazers are fecking the club not Ole.
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What you jabbering on about now? I asked you who gave Jones and Young the new contracts.

I think the only one playing too much Fifa is you. You criticise the above three players, but in fact two of those players got new contracts when Ole was in charge.

Here’s what Ole said about Jones

Interim manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer added: “Phil knows what it takes to be a Manchester United player, he has won the Premier League, FA Cup and Europa League and is now one fo the senior players within the team.
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So Ole seems to think Jones, Smalling and Young are part of his plans for next season, which I don’t agree with. You don’t seem to either, so not sure why you arguing for.
 
Results and league position are more important in evaluating teams than just gathering names. I'll take Son over our entire attack.
 
Bojan11 said:
What you jabbering on about now? I asked you who gave Jones and Young the new contracts.

I think the only one playing too much Fifa is you. You criticise the above three players, but in fact two of those players got new contracts when Ole was in charge.

Here’s what Ole said about Jones



So Ole seems to think Jones, Smalling and Young are part of his plans for next season, which I don’t agree with. You don’t seem to either, so not sure why you arguing for.
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I hate Fifa mate haven’t played it since FIFA 08 :)
 
Vadim said:
What’s your masterplan then? Sack Ole now. Appoint who? Don’t say Poch, he’s happy at Spurs.

Too much Fifa career mode for some of you, it’s not as black and white as you make out. The club is in shite from the very top, the Glazers are fecking the club not Ole.
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He can't be sacked now. That would obviously be ridiculous. He will have the summer window and pre-season and I imagine the club will evaluate him in December, a year into the job.
 
breakout67 said:
Herrera gets in as well, your midfield has nothing left in it except a crocked Wanyama!
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I'm assuming all are fit?

Winks/Sissoko/Eriksen is probably our best midfield 3, perhaps Herrera could get in over Winks but I'm not sure, think both are on a similar level.
 
It was premature to celebrate the “new direction of the club” after Ole was appointed, and it’s premature to conclude that appointing him was a mistake.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Fans on here are a fecking disgrace.

He's come in mid season picked up the absolute shambles he was left with, not signed a player of his own yet and somehow it is his fault???

Let's get things straight. Pep Guardiola would struggle with this group. He struggled at City first year with better than what we have right now.


Give the man a chance.
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How difficult is it for some of our fans to just be calm and understand the bolded parts?
For all the clamor for Poch by some here, I can bet he would never have done as well as Ole has done if he had come in as interim with the amount of dross we have in this team.

I am not saying Ole is the right appointment. Only time will tell but he surely deserves a season at the least to try and ring the changes we all so desperately crave for. At least he understands the expectations and demands of our club better than most. Back him and see how he fares over the summer and next season for God's sakes.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
De Gea, Shaw, Pogba .. and Martial when we play with two wide men, he's better than Lucas.
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Shaw is not better than Rose. Pogba is the type of prima-donna, ego-driven player that Poch would get rid of at the earliest opportunity, regardless of the talent he shows 1 match in every 4. Martial over Moura is debatable.
 
Dec9003 said:
In the league we have 7 points more than Tottenham since Ole took over. http://solskjaertabellen.com/en.html

What a joke of a post, we weren't in the conversation for top four until Ole took over.
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You think I don't know that table exists? We've also got knocked out of the cups while Spurs have advanced in the cups. I'd bite your hands off for less points in the league but a CL semi final. These league points mean feck all.

Leftback99 said:
So 4 at best? What on earth indeed.
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No there is possibly more. Martial or Rahsford over Lucas Moura

SquishyMcSquish said:
I'm assuming all are fit?

Winks/Sissoko/Eriksen is probably our best midfield 3, perhaps Herrera could get in over Winks but I'm not sure, think both are on a similar level.
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No. Spurs have a lot of injury problems that should be taken into account. And yes I would choose Herrera over Winks.
 
Really interested to see what Ole can do next season.

This run he's on now is something else though. Never was this bad under Jose even. If this carries on for the last three games it could really damage how he's perceived from players he keeps and transfer targets, like he's way out of his depth and will be sacked soon. Things could crumble a few months into the season.
 
I'm still undecided on whether Ole is the man to bring back the good ole' days, but i do know they'll be a few years from now.

As per recent form...just look at some of the individual performances/mistakes being served up on the pitch.

There's a fair amount of experience behind the scenes and yet still we're a shambles.

Buck stops with the players and Ed from here on out.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Shaw is not better than Rose. Pogba is the type of prima-donna, ego-driven player that Poch would get rid of at the earliest opportunity, regardless of the talent he shows 1 match in every 4. Martial over Moura is debatable.
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I really don't think there's much in it between Shaw & Rose. All down to what you prefer in a player.

Pogba has proven in the past at Juve & for France that he is very capable of being one of the best midfielders in the world when he gets his head down. I genuinely think under a stable manager like Pochettino, with a genuine stable team around him, he could do big things. Poch is exactly the kind of manager who could be capable of getting work out of a player like Pogba, he's a man manager. I think Pogba has an ego (like most top level footballers) but I also think he hasn't benefited at all from playing in a poor United side where he is too often the go to man for scapegoating.

My only issue with Martial would be: will he run like a madman off the ball? Pochettino demands his attackers press from the front, the system can't function if one player decides he doesn't want to work for the team.
 
breakout67 said:
You think I don't know that table exists? We've also got knocked out of the cups while Spurs have advanced in the cups. I'd bite your hands off for less points in the league but a CL semi final. These league points mean feck all.
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We beat Chelsea and Arsenal away in the FA Cup and PSG away in the CL. Lets not pretend he performed badly in either.
 
I wonder, if you actually expect a prophet, or a proper manager?

Did anyone really think, took over in december, played two games in a week. Change the approach, and suddenly we're a good team. Even Pep need to revamp the squad, Klopp took few season.

Play the same formation you said? How do you expect the players understand the new system without proper pre season? By doing the repetition so the positional awarenes, the tactical understanding, the cohesion of the players are gettin better over time.

Do you really think, ask 11 different head to play new system right away and expect decent results? Against PSG, Barca, Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham, Liverpool, now City.

Do you really think real life just like in the game where you simply just buy good player, change the formation as you like and get the result instantly?

I can go on with words but I'm gettin tired of this, not only the players, we the so called United fans really really need reality checks!!
 
breakout67 said:
You think I don't know that table exists? We've also got knocked out of the cups while Spurs have advanced in the cups. I'd bite your hands off for less points in the league but a CL semi final. These league points mean feck all.
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You said we had the same/similar point percentage, so no you obviously didn't.
Spurs have done well in the Champions league, fair play to them. They didn't do well in the other cups though, going out of both domestic cups in the same week whilst having bad form due to injuries; not too dissimilar to what we're experiencing.
 
It wasn't a mistake to appoint him. Up to that point he was doing a sterling job and had got us through to the last eight of the Champions League and within the Top 4 when all looked doomed at the time he arrived.

The mistake was how the club milked that PSG result as if it was the great crescendo when for a club of the history of United, and I presume ambition, it should have been treated as the building blocks for progress. That has been the case for United in the last few years. We celebrate individual wins in big games but we don't build on them. Solskjaer is not the cause of this decline, and he deserves a chance to rectify it but there is fundamentally something wrong in the water that has to change.

That's why I believe even more-so he needs time and he needs to be backed. Because he knows what a successful United is like. He knows what it takes to be a United player. He knows what ingredients the dressing room needs. And he is taking ownership of this. We made our bed with this appointment and we must stick by it.
 
Ole had the honeymoon effect, it's that simple. I said it at the time (when you were in form) and every week it becomes clearer that was the case.

He was a new manager who came in with positive energy after a toxic influence was removed, so the whole team got a huge boost. He came in, said everything right in the media, played attacking football, had a nice run of fixtures to get the confidence going, and wallah. The new manager bounce is something which occurs across the board with nearly every team, United just had an extra boost of it due to the circumstances surrounding Mourinho's departure.

Then the PSG win was a one in a million lucky strike from Ole, rather than some display of tactical genius. It was worthy of Di Matteo's CL run.

Does that make Ole a bad manager? No, but it does mean that saying 'oh he's won more than Pochettino during his time here' is really a little bit deceptive. The time to compare Pochettino and Ole's win %/records etc would be when they both have a fresh season of the exact same fixtures under the exact same circumstances, with no new manager potential impact.
 
Leftback99 said:
Moura doesn't start in Spurs best XI.
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@SquishyMcSquish disagrees, Moura can start depending on the formation.

SteveW said:
We beat Chelsea and Arsenal away in the FA Cup and PSG away in the CL. Lets not pretend he performed badly in either.
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I didn't pretend anything of the sort. I said Pochettino has done better than Ole. That doesn't mean Ole has done a bad job.

Ole - 61% win ratio, no potential trophies
Poch - 59% win ratio, CL semi final

Pick one. I pick Poch.
 
Ole must be ruthless. Plan for the next season from now itself. The fact that he is still playong ashley young is not a good sign. I am not saying start all youngsters but atleast be clear "these are the players I want next season" if they are not in your plan don't waste a spot in the bench or waste minutes on them. I would play dalot as rb in all the remaining games rather than wasting minutes on young. I would give minutes to chong, gomes and Greenwood rather than wasting on mata or sanchez. I would play Mctominay rather than wasting minutes on herrera. One summer won't fix anything, so he has to act from now qnd not wait for preseason to get his act started.

It is sad but this club is in a mess and it will take more than one summer to fix it.
 
breakout67 said:
@SquishyMcSquish disagrees, Moura can start depending on the formation.
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If we're talking about just getting together our best 'XI' then it's probably:

Lloris, Trippier, Toby, Vert, Rose, Sissoko, Eriksen, Alli, Son, Kane, Lucas.

IMO anyway. That wouldn't really work because the midfield would be a tad unbalanced, but I think that's the best eleven players we can put out. The argument would be that we switch to the diamond (with kane/son up top and alli behind) and put Winks in midfield, taking out Lucas.
 
Bojan11 said:
Woodward would never sack him.

Perez sacked Solari when he did a decent job initially but it started to go all wrong at the end.
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Sounds just like Ole then. Woodward needs to grow a pair. Are we supposed to right off next season before it's too late too?
 
Give him the chance.

The problem is not Ole, it is the whole structure of the club. We need to reset the targets and give him time. If he is allowed by those above him to bring in the players he wants it may still leave us as a team ending up no higher than 5th next season.

Keep the work going and aim for third the season after with maybe a cup success.

It may take 3, 4, maybe 5 years to get a team that is capable of mounting a title challenge.

I am not sure those in positions of power would accept that and therein lies the real problem.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
If we're talking about just getting together our best 'XI' then it's probably:

Lloris, Trippier, Toby, Vert, Rose, Sissoko, Eriksen, Alli, Son, Kane, Lucas.

IMO anyway. That wouldn't really work because the midfield would be a tad unbalanced, but I think that's the best eleven players we can put out. The argument would be that we switch to the diamond (with kane/son up top and alli behind) and put Winks in midfield, taking out Lucas.
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So De Gea, Shaw, Pogba and Martial get in based on that best 11. I like you mate, always have coherent opinions.
 
breakout67 said:
So De Gea, Shaw, Pogba and Martial get in based on that best 11. I like you mate, always have coherent opinions.
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Aye, people will debate Shaw/Rose but I've never been the biggest Rose fan (since his injury) and Shaw defensively is really very good.

A player like Rashford also might not start all the time but I do think he would get a lot of games for us.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Aye, people will debate Shaw/Rose but I've never been the biggest Rose fan (since his injury) and Shaw defensively is really very good.

A player like Rashford also might not start all the time but I do think he would get a lot of games for us.
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I think that decision is piss easy to make. Rose is shockingly bad this season in my opinion, goes flying into tackles without control, loses the ball constantly, doesn't create enough chances from wide.
 
Not keen on the Solskjaer table/outperforming Spurs Arsenal and Chelsea line without acknowledging that they've all been poor in the league since Ole arrived here.

If Mourinho had stayed for the Cardiff game and won it, (decent chance even for him) he'd have had us on 29 after 18 which is 1/2/3 points behind those others on the current Ole table. They've been fairly crap, and how close Burnley and Palace are to them on it shows that.

Still, 38 from 18 is alright for me, particularly from the position we were in. Works out at an 80 point season if, and that's somewhat of a big if, we assume the same overall form for United under Ole for the full duration. 80 is more than any of those teams can get this season.

Might just be a pedantic old sod, but simply outperforming them hasn't been too much of a miracle. It's comfortably doing it and with better form than they have shown over the season as a whole that is more impressive to me.

Still behind Ole but of course our recent form is alarming. We've been bad in the only games we've won recently too. It does make you wonder which is the real him/United. I don't think it's the one that won all those games in a row, I hope it's not the one in this current form, and I'd take the one that would put him on 80 points across a full season with this set of players and a transfer window to operate in.
 
breakout67 said:
I think that decision is piss easy to make. Rose is shockingly bad this season in my opinion, goes flying into tackles without control, loses the ball constantly, doesn't create enough chances from wide.
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I mostly agree.

The biggest problem with Rose (for me) is that he looks dangerous from out wide, but his delivery is all too often disappointing. He can get past opponents with that low centre of gravity, but his crosses fail to beat the first man more often than not. His attacking contribution is spoken about a lot but for me he's one of those players who gets credit for looking busy and dangerous, without actually really achieving much most of the time.

Of course it's arguable that just by making those runs and being a player capable of running at players he has an impact, but I really don't think a player should be held up as a great example of an attacking fullback/wingback if he's not capable of bringing some genuine end product to the table.

(anyway shit this is the ole thread I'll take my moaning about rose elsewhere :lol:)
 
Bojan11 said:
What you jabbering on about now? I asked you who gave Jones and Young the new contracts.

I think the only one playing too much Fifa is you. You criticise the above three players, but in fact two of those players got new contracts when Ole was in charge.

Here’s what Ole said about Jones



So Ole seems to think Jones, Smalling and Young are part of his plans for next season, which I don’t agree with. You don’t seem to either, so not sure why you arguing for.
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If Young starts as first choice for the start of next Season Ole will be gone before January
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Ole had the honeymoon effect, it's that simple. I said it at the time (when you were in form) and every week it becomes clearer that was the case.

He was a new manager who came in with positive energy after a toxic influence was removed, so the whole team got a huge boost. He came in, said everything right in the media, played attacking football, had a nice run of fixtures to get the confidence going, and wallah. The new manager bounce is something which occurs across the board with nearly every team, United just had an extra boost of it due to the circumstances surrounding Mourinho's departure.

Then the PSG win was a one in a million lucky strike from Ole, rather than some display of tactical genius. It was worthy of Di Matteo's CL run.

Does that make Ole a bad manager? No, but it does mean that saying 'oh he's won more than Pochettino during his time here' is really a little bit deceptive. The time to compare Pochettino and Ole's win %/records etc would be when they both have a fresh season of the exact same fixtures under the exact same circumstances, with no new manager potential impact.
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I'm hoping that you can go out of the CL and we can throw the kitchen sink at Poch. Maybe Woody will bump his head and wake up a ruthless CEO. Maybe pigs will fly too!
 
Been saying for years the club is rotten to the core. Starts from the top. No quick fix unfortunately. Need a complete reset. If only Fergie hadn't annoyed those Irish fellas years ago who knows where we would be today.
 
Majima said:
It's been clear for all to see this second half. Once the intensity died down, we've been shown up for the clueless team that we are.

Our whole plan seems to be just run a lot and not much else. If that fails... well we're screwed then. Has Ole even heard of a plan B? What's the point of making changes 10 mins to go?

7 losses in last 9. We've conceded 9 goals in 3 games since we last scored and those were lucky penalties.

We're going absolutely nowhere.

Ole is completely out of his depth.
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Were you a Mourinho fan? If not, don't you think it's slightly strange that they're playing the same as they did under him? I've never understood the kneejerk reaction to blame the manager.

Is it Ole's plan for Young to hoof the ball forward relentlessly for 90 minutes regardless of success rate?
Is it Ole's plan for Lukaku to stand like a Covent Garden statue and point occasionally?
Is it Ole's plan for our midfield not being able to string a few passes together?
Is it Ole's plan for all passing options to just feck off away from the ball carrier hoping for a long hoof forward?
Is it Ole's plan for De Gea to just not be that good recently and for his distribution to be tragically shit?
Is it Ole's plan for our defence to actually be borderline inept at anything?

Perhaps fans should start looking at these untouchable sweethearts who have been wearing the red fecking shirt for a couple of years before chastising the manager who's been there for 4 months.
 
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