They say our players don't deserve us as fans.. Well.. i don't know about that. I think these players have exactly the fans they deserve. These threads.. Oh. My. God.
Appointing Solskjaer was a mistake
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I am only comparing from a tactical point of view. These players I stated can be deployed similar to those Barcelona players with regards to work ethic. It has nothing to do with ability or a concept that is exclusive to Barcelona players
I get it you want to play football manager and sell all of our players because you don’t think they are good enough. You would struggle to support or understand a team like Arsenal, Spurs or Ajax who are doing well in competition with even worse players than us. Quality can be a mental phenomena and good managers can make the players you think are so bad at United decent footballers as we saw with Fergruson over many years.
Lingard is capable of starting a few games for us, but he shouldn’t be our main right attacker next season. I have belief in his ability that he could provide good support to a player like Sancho or Odoi in our team. His goal scoring record is good enough for United considering his role he would play in our team. You may think that Rashford is a headless chicken, but his stats says otherwise and he is more accomplished than you would have believed. Fred has always been good, it is just that he was not given the opportunity by our managers similar to Herrera under Mourinho and Van Gaal.
Yes in football manager we do.
You don't still get it, do you?
The point I'm making is that, Barca has enough threat to hurt any opponent who tries to go all out against them regardless of whether their players are ambling around on the pitch or not. Fact is majority of the opponents that go against Barca always prefer to site back and curtail their attack rather than go all out against them and be taken apart by them. The major strength of Barca lies in their qualities in the pitch hence you shouldn't compare their players to ours regardless of them having some sluggish immobile players.
Take for example if we had more talents in the team than just Pogba and Martial regardless of their laziness, did you think Everton wouldn't be scared to attack? That's even taking it too far, let's assume we had just one quality winger on the right to complement Martial on the left, did you think the likes of Digne would have been puffing up against us? This was why I said we need to improve the team.
And you're making me laugh as regarding your statement about Lingard. Name one quality he has to offer us? Visionary passes? Dribbling? Goals? None! He's absolute a nothing player with an occasional goal here or there, which is no different from Tom Cleverly and we all know where he's playing today. The only thing Lingard offers us is his work rate which has even reduced lately because he now thinks he's the Messi in the team. I don't even think he deserves to be a squad player, considering the wage he's on. And no, he's not the right player to complement Odoi nor Sancho. I'm quite sure the latter players would request for better players around them. We all saw how Sancho looked ordinary without Reus and Paco Acacer against Spurs.
As for Rashford, he should be a squad player at best. His shots are tame, his hold up play and aerial game are non existent and he's too one footed for my likeness. That's not to even mention his ego these days, especially for someone we are just managing in the team. He thinks he's a Ronaldo when he's not even 1/10 of him.
I admit that Fred deserves to be given time however, he needs to sort out his techniques as soon as possible and maybe, we should always put him in his preferred left position.
As for your comments on Spurs and Ajax, it's like you're still living in the past to actually think we have better players than them. Is it the ageing Matic or Fred and MCTominay that are better than Frenkie, Van De Beek or Ziyech. All these aforementioned Ajax players are not only quality but hardworking and are much more mobile than ours. And we can also add de Ligt, a far better defender than any of central back. Likewise Spurs who have a world-class striker in Kane and also, Son who's no slouch and a big game player. Or the likes of Eriksen, Vertoghen and Alderweireld who are all quality players that can slot seamlessly into our team. We don't even have a defender as we speak.
Football manager or not, the fact is we need to improve the team and there are qualities out there that could be brought in at a cheap price, we just have to look in the right places. The likes of Tonali, Van De Beek, Ferro are players that haven't got under the radar.
We are all making assumptions on what goes on in training and in the dressing room. None of us has first-hand knowledge.
I don't think appointing Ole was a big mistake. I think they should have got Carlos Quiroz as his assistant if he is willing to come. Mike Phelan never inspired me to anything. Yes we won the pl with him as the assistant but saf never trusted him the way he did Quiroz.
What kind of fans do you think we are to deserve this?
I can't believe this thread. I just don't understand.
Although it was one of our better results, I think the win against Tottenham hurt us. Prior to that when Ole first got the job, our football was good and I think what Ole did was take the hand break that Jose placed on the players.
Then the Tottenham game came up and as a team they executed Ole’s plan to perfection. Where I think we went wrong after was altering our game to the opposition which it should be the other way around. It’s been proven time and again under LvG, Mourinho and now Ole that our players aren’t capable of handling too much instruction or the attack suffers greatly.
Then the Tottenham game came up and as a team they executed Ole’s plan to perfection. Where I think we went wrong after was altering our game to the opposition which it should be the other way around. It’s been proven time and again under LvG, Mourinho and now Ole that our players aren’t capable of handling too much instruction or the attack suffers greatly.
Utd's is the most daunting job of any big club in Europe. You need to off a dozen players and net spend at least 200 million. By definition, appointing anyone is a mistake.
Same. This team takes a lot of rebuilding to challenge for anything.
Martial , rashford - overrated, terribly inconsistent. Cannot lead the front line for us.
We don’t even have a right winger....
Midfield — all but gone. Herrera, matic: gone or no legs. Pogba seems like he’s dreaming of Madrid right now.
Defense — all trash. Shaw, Dalot for the future, lindelof and possibly Smalling can probably stay as sub.. the rest need to go.
Everyone knows Barcelona has quality players, that wasn’t the point of my post. The point was whether certain players in our team can have limited defensive responsibility and others have more because they have greater work ethic. The answer to this is yes and it has nothing to do with the quality of players we have, it is just a simple tactical instruction that even a league 2 side can deploy.
Majority do, but a few well managed team don’t. Spurs under Pochettino went to the nou camp and did something unprecedented, managed to get more possessions than Barcelona at their home. That is without having nearly half the talent Barcelona had.
We can have all the best talent in the world, but if they are managed poorly, even Everton will still take advantage of that. Having a team full of elite talent and not players who are willing to work hard for the team just build egos like we have at United at the moment. Everton wouldn’t be scared to attack if we just add more quality players to our team.
Lingard has good movements, work ethic and shooting. When I stated that he would complement Sancho and Odoi, I meant it as a subsidiary player.
Rashford a squad player?
His goalscoring stat is as good as Rooney at a similar age. Several top managers rate him highly and rightfully so. He is capable of starting in our 11. You think Ajax has a better team than United? This is getting embarrassing . I understand how some say Spurs have a better starting 11 because they are playing great football under Pochettino, but United regardless of how bad our manager is has a better squad.We don’t need wholesale changes to this team as you suggested. We can challenge for the title with at most five addition. A great manager like Pochettino, can improve it with just three. We don’t need 10 new additions to this team to improve it.
Massive clear out is the easy part which he has failed at by giving contracts to players who need clearing out but the hard part is rebuilding which will be the biggest test Ole will face and its will either make him or break him.
So why give Martial a new contract then? This is my only concern I have of Ole is rebuilding this club which I'm not sure of the massive changes needed the board will back him.
They're professional fecking footballers, if they can't take instruction there's a big issue. Ridiculous to suggest they can't perform when instructed too, and LVG proved they can anyway, it was just terribly boring football, but there was a clear style at least.
Ole became permanent manager on the 28th of March. Young was signed for another year in early Feb and this would've been in the works for months. Same with Jones who signed early Feb. Ole who was temporary manager wasn't going to step in and say these players should be let go.
Not only was he in no position to cancel contracts, he probably wouldn't have enough time to assess the players and he also needs squad players. Ole has a lot of work ahead, we don't know who we can get in the summer and he has said it will be a progressive clear out, it won't be 13 strangers. Jones can be a squad player.
Because we can get money for him when we sell him instead of letting him walk away for nothing.
More like a walking theme, eh?
Said it to a friend in a long discussion yesterday, but we both tend to agree he is probably not the man for this job. The club should have told him and players behind closed doors that the job is almost surely his, but had the option to change their minds if we crashed out of the cups and failed to finish in the top four which looks rather likely now. For me, the board are more to blame as they have had ample opportunity to get it right but failed miserably. The only time it has looked right was when Mourinho signed and we made the progress from almost nothing to winning two trophies in one season and getting back into the Champion's League, then finishing a comfortable second. I think it was at this point Jose lost his rag with the board and players as he knew he was overachieving with what we had but everyone else believed we had a good enough side.
The board are stuck now because I think you just have to stick with Ole into his third year and maybe say he has to challenge then if he has been given what he wants in the transfer market. It's a huge risk to trust such an inexperienced manager with this building project, because it could set us back even further from the top if it goes wrong. However, I think it's just going to create a more disjointed squad if you give Ole a year or more and change it again rather than give him the full length of his contract at least.
So, tl;dr is, as a board, you either have the balls to turn around and not give Ole the job and pick someone else in May, or stick to your guns and let him do his whole contract. No in-betweens, no half measures. Accept any shortcomings.
The board are stuck now because I think you just have to stick with Ole into his third year and maybe say he has to challenge then if he has been given what he wants in the transfer market. It's a huge risk to trust such an inexperienced manager with this building project, because it could set us back even further from the top if it goes wrong. However, I think it's just going to create a more disjointed squad if you give Ole a year or more and change it again rather than give him the full length of his contract at least.
So, tl;dr is, as a board, you either have the balls to turn around and not give Ole the job and pick someone else in May, or stick to your guns and let him do his whole contract. No in-betweens, no half measures. Accept any shortcomings.
You do remember how many points behind we were when OGS started, right? And you do also remember that this is the same team, right? I doubt there is a manager on the planet that would have gained a better outcome out of the pure mediocrity that this team currently represents.
OGS now needs to be granted the FULL backing to rip this team apart and start afresh, because if he does not have that full backing, or OGS does not have the bollocks required for such a task, then we will be in the exact same position in 5 years time.
As a season ticket holder for well over 10 years, it is actually painful to go and watch this team currently, and has been for a number of years - almost to the point that I wonder whether paying the £10 parking fee per game would be worth the investment (risk to reward), instead of watching the game on a feed in the comfort of my own home; and I doubt I am the only one who thinks that presently, who is currently paying around £3K a year to watch the dross we are currently presented with.
Me and my family used to love going to games, now it is a chore, and an expensive one.
I feel the club is at a pivotal juncture in it's history.
Would love to get rid of 99% of these players because of their failure to do basics. Only 2 players would maybe get into a world 11, some are squad players, the majority are not good enough for Utd. Only City have squad players better than most other teams starting 11.
Ole proved that he has the X factor by turning our season around. Even though we've had a bad run (injuries, fatigue, tough fixtures, poor players), we're still in with a chance for top 4.
LVG and Mourinho were the best appointments at the time but deserved to be sacked. Pep and Zidane inherited world class players. Klopp and Pochettino were afforded time to build fantastic teams, yet still haven't won anything.
Ole's shown a good tactical side in certain games. Get rid of deadwood and sentimentality. Back him in the transfer market. Give him a fair bit of time. That's the very least a true legend of this club deserves.
Ole proved that he has the X factor by turning our season around. Even though we've had a bad run (injuries, fatigue, tough fixtures, poor players), we're still in with a chance for top 4.
LVG and Mourinho were the best appointments at the time but deserved to be sacked. Pep and Zidane inherited world class players. Klopp and Pochettino were afforded time to build fantastic teams, yet still haven't won anything.
Ole's shown a good tactical side in certain games. Get rid of deadwood and sentimentality. Back him in the transfer market. Give him a fair bit of time. That's the very least a true legend of this club deserves.
Sadly, with Ed in charge I don't see any manager succeeding here. We will hate Woodward more than we hate Gerrard if he doesn't fix our issues (which are all caused by him). He is destroying our club at the moment and we are heading down that dark Liverpool path after their success in the 70s and 80s.
Ole doesn't have the talent to succeed here considering the circumstances, few manager could. We won't get the players we need unless we give them big fat pay checks, but if we give them that they play for the money, not the club. If that happens we will eventually be back to square one.
If they don't get shit loads of money coming here then there is not really any motivation to play for Manchester United right now. Very worrying times ahead I'm afraid.
Ole doesn't have the talent to succeed here considering the circumstances, few manager could. We won't get the players we need unless we give them big fat pay checks, but if we give them that they play for the money, not the club. If that happens we will eventually be back to square one.
If they don't get shit loads of money coming here then there is not really any motivation to play for Manchester United right now. Very worrying times ahead I'm afraid.
Thank you for being a voice of calm and sense.
Of course we´re not gonna turn around and sack him. I dare say even if we lose all the remaining matches he could still keep the job. We all know this is a huge tast, turning this club around. We have quite a few players who are not either able or willing to do what is needed to perform at the required level. Lets give Ole time to set the Manchester United standard back where it belongs. This underperformance of effort is what we need to weed out. If you can´t whip yourself in shape enough to do the required running, you´re not staying. Doesn´t matter if you´re named Sanchez, Pogba, Martial or Matic. Get fit or get lost. With the right fitness and the right mentality we´ve showed that we can perform. Getting that on a regular basis for a full season is however something quite different than a 6-game streak...
He might lack experience but not the intelligence and desire, I am still with him and his fairy tale (not only as a UTD player but as a manager) also will come in full force in one or 2 years
If any player fails under more than 2/3 managers then you cant blame the managers. Having said that our key players not doing well here might do well in other balanced teams with right players so we need to have that for ourselves first.
If any player fails under more than 2/3 managers then you cant blame the managers. Having said that our key players not doing well here might do well in other balanced teams with right players so we need to have that for ourselves first.
Everyone knows Barcelona has quality players, that wasn’t the point of my post. The point was whether certain players in our team can have limited defensive responsibility and others have more because they have greater work ethic. The answer to this is yes and it has nothing to do with the quality of players we have, it is just a simple tactical instruction that even a league 2 side can deploy.
Majority do, but a few well managed team don’t. Spurs under Pochettino went to the nou camp and did something unprecedented, managed to get more possessions than Barcelona at their home. That is without having nearly half the talent Barcelona had.
We can have all the best talent in the world, but if they are managed poorly, even Everton will still take advantage of that. Having a team full of elite talent and not players who are willing to work hard for the team just build egos like we have at United at the moment. Everton wouldn’t be scared to attack if we just add more quality players to our team.
Lingard has good movements, work ethic and shooting. When I stated that he would complement Sancho and Odoi, I meant it as a subsidiary player.
Rashford a squad player?
We don’t need wholesale changes to this team as you suggested. We can challenge for the title with at most five addition. A great manager like Pochettino, can improve it with just three. We don’t need 10 new additions to this team to improve it.
Point is Barca can afford to have defensive liability players because they have the quality to hurt the opponent even if they are all sleeping on the pitch whereas we have neither the quality nor hardworking players. Only few are hardworking and these few are only decent players who should be squad players at most.
And I didn't say all teams sit back against Barca but most of them often prefer to do that because of Barca's quality. Of course, Spurs knew they had to get something out of the game hence, they had go out against Barca and they were buoyed by the quality they have in Eriksen, Kane, Son, Vertoghen and Alderweireld. That's about 5 quality players whose work rates are also fantastic. We've only got 2 quality players in Martial and Pogba and they are both lazy players.
No way would Rashford and Lingard count as top players. If they were, Rashford would have scored the chance he had against Barca. Did you think Son or Kane would have missed such chance? Does he have Son's dribbling? Does he have Kane's hold up play? Does he have the deadly finishing of Kane or Son? Does he have the two footedness of Kane or Son? None! That should tell you the level he's at. Rashford should be a squad player at best. He's not even on the level of Martial who's a deadly and lethal finisher. The only thing Rashford has over him is his movement. It doesn't matter what people say about Rashford, they said the same about Welbeck. Fact is Ole was a better striker than Rashford yet Ferguson had him as just a squad player. Higuain was a squad player at Madrid and he was better than Rashford. Rashford should be nothing but a squad player at best. I would rather we sign João Felix and have him play as our striker.
And you have just underrated Ajax's players. Have you forgotten these players outclassed Madrid, Juventus and even Bayern? Let me also remind you that these same players dominated us in the Europa final while we had to resort to parking the bus style to stifle their play and punt long to Fellaini. Pogba in that match looked like a school kid against Ajax kids in that match. That's just a little jolt in memory, if you had forgotten. The fact is Ajax have a better midfield and better defence. The only areas they lack quality is in their attack/striker however, they make do with what they have got and they have done well so far.
Bury your head in sand or not, the fact is, we need to reinforce the team with quality players in every department (attack, defence and in the midfield).
No, the problem runs deeper then just the manager.
This a serious comment?
I understand you're upset, I think we all are. The reality is half the team isn't good enough. Interesting that the stats show United covering one of the lowest distances over the season so far. Many of the players swan around like they're saving their energies for their latest self marketing campaigns. It was clearly evident Mourinho did not believe in most of the team and getting rid of one man rather than several appeared to be the best fix. Alas, The truth is these so called super stars can't hide anymore!
I agree the board made a mistake in making Ole the permanent manager, certainly before the end of the season at least, but this goes to show how incredibly naive the board are. However, Ole knows football, he was always a 'thinking' player and tactically a very aware player, and I'm more than confident he'll identify players that deserve to be wearing our beautiful shirt.
To sack him now would be foolish. He needs to be backed in both player departures, and acquisition!
Let's also remember who we are dealing with here and show some respect! This is Ole Gunnar Solskjaer we're talking about! The man would bleed for the club and is a legend.
So fix up, stop feeling sorry, give him time and let's start projecting a little more
positivity towards the situation because as it stands, this thread is sounding like something a city fan would have been writing back in the 80's and 90's. I understand the frustration and anger but jumping on the bandwagon and trying to kick Ole when he's down needs refrain. Maybe point your energies in identifying if certain players are good enough.... Which many of em aren't. More importantly, the lack of desire on the pitch which is simply unacceptable, and, they are trying to demand even higher wages! Obscene if it weren't laughable!
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Yes, the United team that came second last season and is in the top four of ole table has neither quality or hardworking players
. Did you just starting supporting United after the honeymoon period? Even if a top team has to get something against Barcelona, that task is still daunting and most fail to gain as much possession at the nou camp as Spurs did, especially with weaker players. We have more quality players in this team and if you think Pogba and Martial are our only quality players, you are not a true United fan. Rashford, De Gea, Linderlof, Fred, Shaw, Lukaku and Sanchez are all quality players. Just because we have a bad footballing philosophy, it doesn’t mean, they are bad players. Most United fan, taught Blind, Depay, and Di Maria were not good enough at United, yet theses players are doing well in their new club and national team. The players I listed will fall in that category if we decide to sell them.You believe Rashford missing that chance against Barcelona doesn’t make him quality???
Kane and Son has missed plenty of chances and they would have missed that chance as well as it was on their weaker foot and at a tight angle. Kane is one of the best striker in the world and comparing him to Rashford is like comparing Messi to Sancho. Just because Sancho is not as good as Messi, it doesn’t mean that he is not a good player. Rashford has attributes that is better than Son and vice versa. Rashford has higher work ethic, pace and technicality. I am sure you haven’t even watched Felix play because Martial was rated as highly as Felix, but now some fans don’t think he is good enough. I m sure you will be the first to complain if we sign Felix and he doesn’t live up to his expectations.Ajax doesn’t have a better team than United
. That is the funniest thing I have read here in awhile. I understand that you don’t rate our players but to state misinformation, is not helping your argument. Ajax outplayed those teams because they are managed by a good manager with a good philosophy, with some decent players and good chemistry. It is like saying leceister has a better team than United the year they won the league but in reality, they were just managed well with some players that played above their level. The same scenario is happening with Ajax. They have at least 3-4 very good players, with others just playing above their current level. I doubt any sane United fan would want to swap our entire 11 for theirs.We've lost 6 out 8 matches, including 4-0 loss to Everton.
6 defeats in 8 games has to be pretty much unprecedented for a United side (at least since the 1970s).
Worse than anything we've seen under Moyes, Van Gaal or Mourinho.
It is unprecedented, we broke a record from the 1980s, 5 away losses in a row. Ole's time is a strange one, we also broke a long standing record of away wins in a row.
Just thinking how naive can a board be. I mean we had absolutely nothing to gain from giving Ole the handshake before the end of the season. Rafa Benitez has just secured Newcastle's continued PL campaign for next season which is an achievment in itself. Despite that he's only getting silence from his board re what is needed at the club. So he won't be prepared to stick around another season if they don't sing his tune. Could have been an option for us?
I get that we have problems, but are we really looking to Newcastle for inspiration about how a club should be properly managed?
Quite some turn around.
Solskjaer was horrendous at Cardiff City - came in mid-season, got them relegated, was sacked early into the next season.
His worst run of results at Cardiff? 6 defeats in 8 games. Incredible to think that he could be about to surpass that tonight... with Manchester United!
No it's not Newcastle we should be looking at but the prospect of having their present manager as an option to take over from Ole. However we don't have that option any longer. Our board just shat on that!
Ole is trying to get the best out of a bad lot, with players who are not good enough and players not wanting to be here.
No manager or God himself, can whip a dead horse and get any reaction. Give him a chance to bring his own players in, and get rid of all the deadwood.
He has a very tough job on his hands and he WILL start rebuilding this summer by bringing in 4/5 players. Then it must continue in each window for his tenure. He must get rid of all the deadwood and those who's heart is not with this club.
Please get behind him and give him that chance
No manager or God himself, can whip a dead horse and get any reaction. Give him a chance to bring his own players in, and get rid of all the deadwood.
He has a very tough job on his hands and he WILL start rebuilding this summer by bringing in 4/5 players. Then it must continue in each window for his tenure. He must get rid of all the deadwood and those who's heart is not with this club.
Please get behind him and give him that chance
Cardiff were awful when he took over. But in those 6 defeats, did he lose twice to arguably the best team in the world? (Certainly one of the top four or five). Were all of his league losses to teams in the top half of the table?
Ole has said he tried to change too much too quickly. Do you really think he will make all the same mistakes again?
And if we lose tonight, it's to the team on top of the table... with a squad that everyone openly admits shouldn't win this game.
Six defeats in eight games (or seven in nine, as it is soon likely to be) is a remarkable run of form for any United side, regardless of the strength of the opposition.
While it is true that many of the players signed since 2013 have not been good enough, this run is worse than anything we saw under Moyes, Van Gaal or Mourinho during this period. We have also now gone 437 minutes without scoring a goal from open play.
As to whether or not Solskjaer will again make the mistake of trying to do too much too quickly, one could argue he has already made that mistake by failing to take note of the players' conditioning and drastically altering their workload in training (reported double-sessions and the attempt to run a second preseason in Dubai in January) and in games, resulting in a raft of muscular injuries and a squad depleted of energy levels for the crucial run-in.
Ole has the best points record in the Premiership besides City and Liverpool. The 3 games he has lost has been to Barcelona and PSG. No shame. Losing to Everton in that manner was the worst since he took over.
And converting one of our easy chances at Wolves in the league to go 2 up, might have made all the difference in that game
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