Correct. It was unsustainable. They started dropping like flies a few weeks ago. They didn't just randomly decide to stop trying when it mattered most. They have simply hit a wall
Appointing Solskjaer was a mistake
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Correct. It was unsustainable. They started dropping like flies a few weeks ago. They didn't just randomly decide to stop trying when it mattered most. They have simply hit a wall
If he's just going to be a politician, talking about hard work in press conferences but continuing to pick players like Martial consistently then yes the club did make a mistake.
Time to bring down the axe on players like Martial and Matic and actually play some of the youth the he talks about so much.
I heard recently that he doesn't park his car in the manager's spot because of respect for Alex Ferguson, if he doesn't grow a pair and start making the tough decisions needed he'll be out by this time next year.
Time to bring down the axe on players like Martial and Matic and actually play some of the youth the he talks about so much.
I heard recently that he doesn't park his car in the manager's spot because of respect for Alex Ferguson, if he doesn't grow a pair and start making the tough decisions needed he'll be out by this time next year.
Ole said that yesterday, be also made a simmilar claim just after he was appointed. He mentioned poor fitness levels before the Dubai trip
I would be shocked if it happened too. I just like the idea of it.
Freaking hate the rationale of some of you guys. If he stopped playing every underperforming player he'd have no players left to field. He's stuck with this lot until he's had a chance to make signings.
It's not easy on the ear to hear that a bunch of professional athletes are unfit to execute a tactic. Should we really be reliant on fitness to beat teams?
I can't believe I'm saying this but I miss the days we enjoyed more possession. Don't like the sitting deep and only counter attacking approach Ole seems to have.
I can't believe I'm saying this but I miss the days we enjoyed more possession. Don't like the sitting deep and only counter attacking approach Ole seems to have.
When he got appointed, I got negative comments for not being excited about his appointment.
However, the players are just not giving a shit at the moment. Can't blame that on Solskjaer.
I don't think he is the right man but the players are to blame.
However, the players are just not giving a shit at the moment. Can't blame that on Solskjaer.
I don't think he is the right man but the players are to blame.
People who think appointing Solskjaer was a mistake are missing the point completely. This team requires more than just good tactics, it needs a complete rebuild and to go through some (probably a lot of) pain. Some difficult decisions need to be made, good players will need to leave and patience to bed in new and young players.
This isn’t a job for any manager, our problem was our last 2 managers were tasked with instant success and for that but also their huge reputations as winners they needed to win instantly. You can’t have that mentality when trying a multi year rebuild. Mourinho got guys like Matic, Sanchez because he needed to win immediately and that’s causing us huge issues right now. Even signing Lukaku, why spend 90m on a striker who’s not got the technique to play for a top side when we have a potential world class striker from our youth. Teams like Dortmund and Ajax do well because they give their young players a chance and develop them properly. This is what we need to start doing but it won’t be easy.
If we tried to get another big name manager in would they risk their reputation and gut this team and do a reset? Ole is the best guy for the job because he doesn’t have a reputation to risk and because he loves this club and it really feels like he’d never make a decision that wasn’t best for this club.
The only other manager who could have handled this huge task would be Poch and it’s clear we tried to get him. This whole approach feels like a very long term plan and to me the tactics are only a very small part of it. Once we get in players who will work hard and won’t down tools when they feel like it and once we’ve implemented a culture of attacking aggressive football then we can talk about tactics. There’s so much to do before we even think about trying to challenge for anything.
This isn’t a job for any manager, our problem was our last 2 managers were tasked with instant success and for that but also their huge reputations as winners they needed to win instantly. You can’t have that mentality when trying a multi year rebuild. Mourinho got guys like Matic, Sanchez because he needed to win immediately and that’s causing us huge issues right now. Even signing Lukaku, why spend 90m on a striker who’s not got the technique to play for a top side when we have a potential world class striker from our youth. Teams like Dortmund and Ajax do well because they give their young players a chance and develop them properly. This is what we need to start doing but it won’t be easy.
If we tried to get another big name manager in would they risk their reputation and gut this team and do a reset? Ole is the best guy for the job because he doesn’t have a reputation to risk and because he loves this club and it really feels like he’d never make a decision that wasn’t best for this club.
The only other manager who could have handled this huge task would be Poch and it’s clear we tried to get him. This whole approach feels like a very long term plan and to me the tactics are only a very small part of it. Once we get in players who will work hard and won’t down tools when they feel like it and once we’ve implemented a culture of attacking aggressive football then we can talk about tactics. There’s so much to do before we even think about trying to challenge for anything.
Who would have done better with this team in the 4 months he’s been in charge?
Honestly, would anyone? If you believe so then you’re burying your head in sand regarding the quality of this squad.
Honestly, would anyone? If you believe so then you’re burying your head in sand regarding the quality of this squad.
I think it's far too early for that sort of statement.
I had my doubts about his appointment to be honest, but now he is in the job he needs time and support. Not just from the terraces either.
He needs an internal structure within thr club that is supportive in long term strategy.
I had my doubts about his appointment to be honest, but now he is in the job he needs time and support. Not just from the terraces either.
He needs an internal structure within thr club that is supportive in long term strategy.
We lose, he says everything what people want to hear, we lose again, he says again everything what people want to hear, we lose again....and repeat.
I must admit one thing. Jose turned fans against him. Ole did opposite. With nice words he managed to convince people that we are average team with average players.
I must admit one thing. Jose turned fans against him. Ole did opposite. With nice words he managed to convince people that we are average team with average players.
A lot of people in the thread are alluding to it - worst case scenario is he sells pogba and some other players and signs his own players and is gone by christmas. we have done this over and over. We should have had a director of football in place for months now ready to do that job for him and if he is sacked in november it isn't as big a deal.
We are a 5th-6th place team at present, neither Mourinho nor Solksjaer needs to tell us that, it’s pretty darn obvious.
I was all for backing Mourinho all the way until he turned full nutter on us and starting losing his mind.
Ole looked lost sat there on the bench yesterday like he'd run out of ideas. He brought Sanchez on against Barca who nearly scored yet not against Everton? He brings on Scott and Young like they are going to change the outcome of the game? Sorry Ole is completely out his depth and the second half performance showed he couldn't even kick the backside of the players to not lose 2-0 in the second half too.
We've lost 6 of our last 8 matches.
At this rate, Ole may not even make the Summer. He may walk in the Summer, if we continue to lose 75% of our matches.
At this rate, Ole may not even make the Summer. He may walk in the Summer, if we continue to lose 75% of our matches.
Our overall record under Ole is 15 wins, 2 draws and 7 losses. We started off with 8 wins on the trot - scored 22 and conceded 5. Therefore, since the away win at the Emirates, we've won 7, drawn 2 and lost 7 - scored 23 and conceded 24. We were decent for 8 games and even then the football was shite. Most of his reign has actually been a continuation from Mourinho and we couldn't wait to sack him.
When you take out the first three games:
Played 24; won 12; drawn 2; lost 7; GF 33; GA 26. Really isn't worthy of being appointed as full time manager.
Mourinho this season: Played 24; won 10; drawn; 6; lost 8; GF 38; GA 35.
When you take out the first three games:
Played 24; won 12; drawn 2; lost 7; GF 33; GA 26. Really isn't worthy of being appointed as full time manager.
Mourinho this season: Played 24; won 10; drawn; 6; lost 8; GF 38; GA 35.
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For me I look at the biggest club in the world, and we now have a manager that perfectly matches what we have in players. Good but no where good enough. We have a 6th place manager (at best) managing a 6 place side. Can you imagine if Everton in 7th appointed a manager from the Norwegian league that failed when he was here at Cardiff how their fans and media would react.
It seems being nice and one of your own gives you some allowance. Maybe if Ole doesn't work, we could see whether Brucey or Hughesy fancy a go at it too. They seem to fit our manager JD and actually are better qualified and experienced.....?
Why would you just remove games?
I mean, we can do that for anything to make it look better or worse, it makes zero sense.
And let’s not forget that 2 of those 7 defeats were against sides that no manager would have avioded, sides that are quite simply miles better than us.
Because we were quite clearly playing off the buzz of removing the most toxic manager we've ever had and replacing him with one who provided a sense of freedom?
Stats are stats man, you can’t simply decide in your head that ”3 sounds about right”, if you’re using stats, use them all or none at all.
Otherwise you can simply start removing loses to teams like PSG and Barca because they are simply miles better than us & no manager was turning us into a side to beat them in 4 months.
This has got Roberto Di Matteo (chelsea) written all over it. (Apart from the trophies of course)
The idea is that we've haven't played with the same ability or passion since those first three games - the only time in Ole's reign where we actually looked like Manchester United. It's not as if I posted just those stats - I included everything for anyone else to make their own judgments.
Also misleading as Mourinho had a CL group stage which is much easier than knockout games vs PSG and Barcelona.
Funnily enough if you do the same comparison in the league only (removing Ole's first 3 games), Ole still comes out comfortably on top:
Mourinho (17 games)
xG: 1.66
xGA: 1.56
xPts: 1.41
Solskjaer (14 games)
xG: 1.93
xGA: 1.27
xPts: 1.80
Of course he does unless you bizarrly want to skew the stats to conform to your own beliefs.
Is that really true?
Any way, I think what the club needs is a DoF who's got experience with some of the biggest clubs in Europe. The squad is a complete mess IMO.
Giving him the job halfway through his 'audition' was a mistake. But, you could say giving him a caretaker role was a mistake because he has no credible experience to back up such an appointment. Getting Cardiff relegated and doing ok in a Norweigan league is not really a glowing CV. If it was any other foreign manager coming in with that record they would have been hounded out from the start.
He's here now and, if he gets his players in the summer, he will be judged on the start of the season. He has made a rod for his back by saying he needs a pre-season and some players. If he gets both then come next Christmas he will have no complaints when/if he's sacked.
I don't think he has the clout to make this a successful appointment because there are too many players who think they are better than a team managed by someone with a pointless track record.
He's here now and, if he gets his players in the summer, he will be judged on the start of the season. He has made a rod for his back by saying he needs a pre-season and some players. If he gets both then come next Christmas he will have no complaints when/if he's sacked.
I don't think he has the clout to make this a successful appointment because there are too many players who think they are better than a team managed by someone with a pointless track record.
I'm feel I'm stuck on repeat as well! 3 points off 3rd is better than spending £300m and being 12 points off 3rd. He's had half a season and despite the recent poor results he has done well. Need a big summer to get us prepared for the new season.
My big concern with Ole after the Everton game was that he couldn’t even get a proper reaction from the players after half time. Isn’t his main trump card the whole “embodiment of the Man Utd spirit of old bla bla bla”?
It is pointless even bringing up his managerial statistics this season as it’s just too short of a time frame, and is also tainted with the “post-Mourinho” factor. Like it or not, Ole’s appointment is still a huge risk to take, especially right before a major rebuild. I suspect the decision was made because it was made certain to the club that we couldn’t get Poch this year.
It is pointless even bringing up his managerial statistics this season as it’s just too short of a time frame, and is also tainted with the “post-Mourinho” factor. Like it or not, Ole’s appointment is still a huge risk to take, especially right before a major rebuild. I suspect the decision was made because it was made certain to the club that we couldn’t get Poch this year.
Personally think the revisionism is now fans saying Ole is the manager we need to have faith in going forward when no one felt like that at xmas. Was Ole was always this great manager who fans should have 100% faith in to turn this club round? No! He was seen as a fun temporary manager to give the club a lift after the misery that was Mourinho and who pretty much everyone agreed was not really qualified for the job.
No one is saying Ole didn't give us a remarkable bounce, we had an incredible run pf results based on the positivity he brought into the club. He got the players smiling. He got the fans smiling and yes he got us in touching distance of 4th. But we are still talking about a manger who a couple of months before was deemed by most not good enough, due diligence would have been to wait and see what happened when the smiles faded. We didn't we made knee-jerk reaction and hired a person nearly everyone was against giving the job to permanently becuase his track record had not demonstrated anything that pointed towards him been up to what is a massive job.
Now we have seen those smiles fade, that inspiration Ole brought in has gone, the results have become well worse then they have been in decades, 6 defeats in 8. The performances have been terrible and defiantly some questionable tactics. It's 100% the natural reaction to go hang on did we get a bit ahead ourselves in handing out a 3 year contract to some one who was meant to be a fun stop gap.
I don't get the argument people are making that saying we should move past Ole is Knee-Jerk when hiring him was very clearly knee jerk. It just saying it's ok to be knee jerk one way but you can't question it the other way round.
No one is saying all the problems at united are Ole's fault. Or that sacking Ole will solve all our problems. We all know their are issues at every level of the club that need addressing. But that doesn't mean we can ignore who the manager is and undermine how important it is that we have the right person in that position. So saying the manager who was deemed not qualified for the job, but is now 100% the right manager who we must not question, and if you do question your entitled is such a closed minded point of view.
As for Pogba, he isn't a scape goat, everyone excepts he is our most talented player, but like so many have pointed out he is either a 4 out of 10 player or 9 out of 10 player, and to often he just looks uninterested or you hardly notice he is on the pitch. What do you do with that? By all accounts he wants a raise? do you grant him it? With his level of inconsistency is he the player we want to build the team around going forward. How many times have we seen great players turn up week in week out despite the rest of the team not been up to his quality? Pogba doesn't do that. It also isn't just at united this criticism has been leveled at Pogba, it was at Juve and was for France for many years. Again selling Pogba won't solve all our problems and the ideal situation we keep him, it feels like he fully commits to the club and a manager comes in who can get Pogba been a quality player week in week out. But debating whether thats possible/likly or the right use of our funds is what any club should be doing right now in our situation. We are a rich club but even us need to decide which players we give mega contracts around the 300k+ a week mark, on Pogba's performances should he be one of them? Or could those funds be better used else were? its a debate we should be having!
As for it been it been big clubs fans who speak like this, My fiancee plays Sunday league football I go watch her as often as I can and I can honestly say every time i've been their I've heard fan question the manager the chairman.... I've got friends who support football teams all levels of the football league, all fans act exactly the same, granted united fans have higher expectations then most clubs, but no matter what level of football you are at when you don't feel the management structure is looking after your club correctly and the clubs seems to be slipping backwards, fans question it. Saying its just big club fans is just nonsense.
Great post, but our manager needs more than smile and hug to motivate these players it seems
Moreover, the best football we have produced, isn’t that more down to the new manager bounce? If it is down to Ole, why are we struggling to perform like this again even with all our team fit. He can’t blame fitness because we have some of the best trainers and training facilities in the world. Our players are capable of outworking the like of Everton, Wolves and so on. It seems more like a mental thing that prevents our players from doing so and I don’t know why Ole hasn’t enforced such work ethic consistently in this team.
Outworking in what way? You mean there was something Ole could do to help the immobility and lack of work rates of Matic, Pogba, Lukaku and Martial in the team? And how he could have made them run as much as Everton players who ran twice as much as our own players? Do tell us, we are listening!
And if we consider the fact that the mobile players we have such as Lingard, Rashford and Fred are just decent players who should mostly be regarded as squad players. So what else is there in the team?
Ole is doing his best with the team and it's not a coincidence that we have looked good against opposition that lacks intensity on the pitch e.g PSG where a certain Draxler was ambling around without any care, likewise Di Maria or relegation candidatey such as Cardiff, Bournemouth etc.
The high time you accepted the fact that the team lacks the quality, the better for everyone. Pogba and Martial are the only quality players in the team however they are both lazy, have got poor movement and lack intelligence.
And?
Jose got 5 transfer windows to assemble this mess.
Ole not really had one yet and you are writing him off?
fecking hate our 'fans'. How is he supposed to work wonders with this squad? Pep wouldn't be able.
Appointing him looks to be a mistake.
Did look like it, really don't understand why we sat deep against Everton and relied on the counter.
So he's told them to keep barging into it? No other ideas?
Ole has inherited a mess from Jose. A squad where only 4 players are top 6 level players - Rashford, Pogba, Shaw and De Gea. 2 of that 4 will probably need to be sold this summer for trying to capitalize on the clubs struggles.
Martial, Lingard, Lindelof and Herrera are currently mid-table level players who can sometimes do a job, and who will hopefully kick on next season apart from Herrera.
Wilfred Zaha if bought would walk into this team and be Utds best player overnight. That's where we're at right now. If we have a good transfer window, get all our possible targets - Sancho, Rice, Zaha, Meunier, Alderweireld then we can turn it around quickly.
A poor transfer window where all our targets are not available like when we only got Fellaini or Fred and Ole is toast.
Martial, Lingard, Lindelof and Herrera are currently mid-table level players who can sometimes do a job, and who will hopefully kick on next season apart from Herrera.
Wilfred Zaha if bought would walk into this team and be Utds best player overnight. That's where we're at right now. If we have a good transfer window, get all our possible targets - Sancho, Rice, Zaha, Meunier, Alderweireld then we can turn it around quickly.
A poor transfer window where all our targets are not available like when we only got Fellaini or Fred and Ole is toast.
Ole Gunner when asked if the players care enough to play for the club he answered,
"I don't know"
This is a huge red flag, and potential nail in the coffin for Ole. He did not realise the job he had on his hands, he believed that the players would die for the club like him but were being misused. In reality, the moment things got tough most of the players stopped trying (possibly due to having their head turned as well).
Appointing any manager without wholesale change in the club was always going to be a mistake. Ole will get hounded out by his players just like LVG and Mou.
"I don't know"
This is a huge red flag, and potential nail in the coffin for Ole. He did not realise the job he had on his hands, he believed that the players would die for the club like him but were being misused. In reality, the moment things got tough most of the players stopped trying (possibly due to having their head turned as well).
Appointing any manager without wholesale change in the club was always going to be a mistake. Ole will get hounded out by his players just like LVG and Mou.
In my opinion we need to start molding quality as well. Think Vidić. I hate the "who'd want to play for us if we end up...". Let's find players, rock solid players, who wants to burn for this club and let's make them fecking heroes. For too long we've been thinking that so-called "quality" players could lift us. We overpay them and they feck us over with their snowflake attitude. We just need proper footballers. Not selfie queens. I so badly just want us to take a few step back and to do the proper steps for us to get back on track. It'll take time so it's best just stop considering us as a club that needs to push for glory "next season". Let's have patience and let's get it right. Instead of this scattergun approach where we think we can buy us to a title. It's sickening and I'm fed.
I completely agree with what you're saying, had someone telling me the other day, Ole should be sacked if we dont win the league next season. They don't deserve the club at our best, if they cannot back us during our worst, fecking glory hunters.
They seem to think because we're Man United we're entitled to be the best team in the world, football definitely doesn't work like that.
No sir, not this time. This isn't some random schmuck we have hired, it's a club icon that is endearly loved by the fans. If this turns out bitter the only ones who are going to get hounded out are the Glazers and Woodward. Trust me, the green and gold will be taken to Old Trafford again and this time it will not end up well for those charlatan bastards.
How lovely of you to think the Glazers and Woodward care about the fans. Also very funny that you think the fans won't turn on Ole themselves, they are already doing it now after 6 losses in 8. There is a small minority that think we've hired David Moyes Mk-II (they are idiots in my opinion but that's something else altogether) and this view will grow if we don't improve.
The stretford end and away fans will ALWAYS sing Ole's name, they will never go against the manager, but plenty of match going fans will turn on Ole if we carry on this form next season.
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