Antony (out)

[soapythecat]

I thought this new system would have siitrd him in one of the WB positions - seems to have the attributes to play there - but he’s only been given the shot once I think. Surely he can’t be worse than Dalot or Maz there? Must be stinking in training if he’s not getting a look in.

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

I’d give him a go on the left. I mean can it get any worse than Dalot there

 

[gulli_G]

I think he could be decent on the left, that and Casimiro Ugarte combo have not been tried by Ruben yet.

 

[cirilus]

Casemiro, Antony, Mount, Zirkzee can account for 250 million pounds of transfers, mind boggling.

Acording to transfermarkt, Varane, Sancho, Antony, Hojlund, Casemiro, Lisandro, Mount, Onana and Zirkzee account for almost 600m euros spent.

4 summer windows.

What should we take of this decision making?

Has the scouting team been fired altogether?

What positive impact have they make on the team, club, youth and so on?

9 players, 600 mil, 0 relevance.

 

[Roboc7]

At this rate we are running out of players.

He’s started 1 game and made 6 appearances in the league and hasn’t even completed 90 minutes in total. It’s not really much of a loss if we loaned him out, even with a packed schedule and mass rotation he still doesn’t get picked a lot.

His position doesn’t exist in the team anymore so the lack of game time is only going to continue.

 

[The Constant Gardener]

I'd like to see Anthony given another chance to prove himself before any decisions are made of whether to ship out or not. There simply must be something there that convinced us to shell out £80m.

 

[Tallis]

Can ETH buy him ? We paid him £15m for his severance which should suffice. Antony can play with his kids or dribble his way to the grocery store ?

 

[RaddyRed]

Can ETH buy him ? We paid him £15m for his severance which should suffice. Antony can play with his kids or dribble his way to the grocery store ?

ETH would give him the list and then look out his window as Antony was just going round and round in circles on the driveway, making no progress to the shop.

 

[Shabby as she goes]

Acording to transfermarkt, Varane, Sancho, Antony, Hojlund, Casemiro, Lisandro, Mount, Onana and Zirkzee account for almost 600m euros spent.

4 summer windows.

What should we take of this decision making?

Has the scouting team been fired altogether?

What positive impact have they make on the team, club, youth and so on?

9 players, 600 mil, 0 relevance.

It’s obvious big mistakes have been made for years and years.

But as I’ve said quite a few times: look at last summers transfer window.

Mazraoui, De Light, Ugarte, Yoro, Zirkzee.
An 80% score. That is (more than) decent.

It doesn’t help to keep complaining about what went wrong in the past decade. Wrong players, too high salaries, terrible negotiating. Yes yes, we know it. Very bad, but nothing new

We could also try to be hopeful about the positive signs of change we have started to witness. That things may sustainably improve

 

[Hammondo]

He’s started 1 game and made 6 appearances in the league and hasn’t even completed 90 minutes in total. It’s not really much of a loss if we loaned him out, even with a packed schedule and mass rotation he still doesn’t get picked a lot.

His position doesn’t exist in the team anymore so the lack of game time is only going to continue.

Yea but if we are getting rid of the players others keep saying we are, we would need him.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

How much money is he on here? I can't imagine anyone paying over £15m for him, so might be best to just keep him on to do the jobs of all the staff Ratcliffe has sacked.

 

[redshaw]

He did well for ETH's Ajax against Amorim's Sporting, it was a while back but our manager has seen him play very well. Would've thought he'd hang around as a useful squad player unless we can use the 15-20m into another type of player or he's just too far gone since the big money move and off field stuff.

 

[Denis' cuff]

Just don’t understand why we persist on playing him on his unnatural side. Just has to be an improvement doing a job covering lw. We really do the weirdest things, even without ETH.

 

[JE-365]

Amorim’s wingbacks recently have been wingers so it’s strange that Antony hasn’t been used more as RWB. At sporting, his wingback also offers versatility to switch position with the no 10. It sounds to me that Antony and Amad would have been perfect combination on the right side. It’s time to go then if he’s not even rated as wingback.

 

[NZT-One]

Amorim’s wingbacks recently have been wingers so it’s strange that Antony hasn’t been used more as RWB. At sporting, his wingback also offers versatility to switch position with the no 10. It sounds to me that Antony and Amad would have been perfect combination on the right side. It’s time to go then if he’s not even rated as wingback.

I agree. It is a bit of a suprise, that Antony hasn't been tried out at least. Especially given that none of the alternatives really made the position his own by playing well in it. Maybe there is something wrong with him in Training, I always thought, that Antony has a rather unpleasant combination of being easy to trigger and not being the brightest. But thats shooting in the dark, I certainly would have tried him out, I mean, he is a player of ours, as bad as the transfer was, we might as well try to get some use out of him.

 

[Roboc7]

Yea but if we are getting rid of the players others keep saying we are, we would need him.

I don’t think anyone who currently plays as a wing back is going to be sold, if anyone comes in I’d assume a LWB is highly likely. Even if there are departures he’s still as far or further from the team than he is now.

He costs a lot of money in wages and contributes virtually nothing, we really wouldn’t miss him.

 

[Hammondo]

I don’t think anyone who currently plays as a wing back is going to be sold, if anyone comes in I’d assume a LWB is highly likely. Even if there are departures he’s still as far or further from the team than he is now.

He costs a lot of money in wages and contributes virtually nothing, we really wouldn’t miss him.

We wouldn't, but he doesn't just play wingback. I am not for keeping him but either we replace players or we don't sell as many.

 

[MadDogg]

I thought this new system would have siitrd him in one of the WB positions - seems to have the attributes to play there - but he’s only been given the shot once I think. Surely he can’t be worse than Dalot or Maz there? Must be stinking in training if he’s not getting a look in.

I believe he's come off the bench three times at RWB, and he's actually done quite well in all three. Or maybe it was two good and one bad; I'm not completely sure. Unless he's doing really badly there in training, him not being given a longer run out in that position is probably the thing I disagree with Amorim about the most. Never thought I'd say that about Antony, but he's the most suited player we've got to play the attacking wingback role that we are desperately missing (other than Amad who is starting at #10).

 

[The Urban Goose]

I believe he's come off the bench three times at RWB, and he's actually done quite well in all three. Or maybe it was two good and one bad; I'm not completely sure. Unless he's doing really badly there in training, him not being given a longer run out in that position is probably the thing I disagree with Amorim about the most. Never thought I'd say that about Antony, but he's the most suited player we've got to play the attacking wingback role that we are desperately missing (other than Amad who is starting at #10).

Why hasn't he been tried on the left though? It must be either he's completely shit in training or his attitude stinks and he's one of those "I'm not changing the way I play" tools. The latter would explain why Amorim wants him gone, even if on loan.

 

[bb8]

It’s obvious big mistakes have been made for years and years.

But as I’ve said quite a few times: look at last summers transfer window.

Mazraoui, De Light, Ugarte, Yoro, Zirkzee.
An 80% score. That is (more than) decent.

It doesn’t help to keep complaining about what went wrong in the past decade. Wrong players, too high salaries, terrible negotiating. Yes yes, we know it. Very bad, but nothing new

We could also try to be hopeful about the positive signs of change we have started to witness. That things may sustainably improve

You're being quite premature with your grading there. These guys signed 4-5 year contracts; you can't really call any of them a hit based on six months. Casemiro also looked great at first.

1. Yoro hasn't done a thing yet. He's a very exciting talent, but we'll see how it pans out. We spent a lot of money to bring him in, so you can't call it a hit just because he's in the squad.
2. At £40M and £200k a week, De Ligt is a miss so far to me. What does he do well exactly? Looks like a fairly average CB. Slow, not great in possession, not great in the air, gets outmuscled... I don't see what he's brought to justify the investment thus far.
3. Mazroui looks like great value at this point.
4. Early returns on Ugarte are good, though he's not been some star out there or anything. Many people are talking about replacing him long term with someone more athletic or better on the ball in these forums. At £50M + a sizeable contract, I'd say it looks promising but wait 3 years for a final grade.
5. Zirkzee's been a clear miss thus far

To me, it's only one clear hit (Maz) out of five. It could turn either way in a few years time, but I don't see a clear 80% success rate.

 

[MadDogg]

Why hasn't he been tried on the left though? It must be either he's completely shit in training or his attitude stinks and he's one of those "I'm not changing the way I play" tools. The latter would explain why Amorim wants him gone, even if on loan.

Amorim does seem to prefer his wingbacks to play on their opposite foot, particularly if they are more attack focused. At the time he joined us Sporting fans were saying that he was doing that with them, then he only played Amad on the right with us, Antony has only played on the right, and Garnacho has only played on the left. Obviously Dalot has been mostly on the left as well. Out of all our wingback options it's only been Mazraoui and Malacia who have played exclusively on the side of their stronger foot (and both have only played that position a few times).

It appears he wants the wingbacks to be really linking with the #10's and interchanging with them (once again that is what Sporting fans were saying, although we've really only seen it with Amad and Antony) rather than constantly stretching the play and getting crosses in.

I have wondered if we've been trying to freeze Antony out so he actively wants to leave (if he's willing to drop his wages it might make it easier to sell him).

 

[Reapersoul20]

Why would we sell one of our best performers this season?

 

[Red_toad]

I’d give him a go on the left. I mean can it get any worse than Dalot there

How quickly fans forget…

 

[Roboc7]

We wouldn't, but he doesn't just play wingback. I am not for keeping him but either we replace players or we don't sell as many.

You don’t need to replace players who don’t play and don’t contribute anything. Even with all the fixtures, bad results and players performing poorly he still doesn’t get picked.

If someone will take him he has to go.

 

[Hammondo]

You don’t need to replace players who don’t play and don’t contribute anything. Even with all the fixtures, bad results and players performing poorly he still doesn’t get picked.

If someone will take him he has to go.

And if injuries hit?

 

[crossy1686]

Acording to transfermarkt, Varane, Sancho, Antony, Hojlund, Casemiro, Lisandro, Mount, Onana and Zirkzee account for almost 600m euros spent.

4 summer windows.

What should we take of this decision making?

Has the scouting team been fired altogether?

What positive impact have they make on the team, club, youth and so on?

9 players, 600 mil, 0 relevance.

Henke tried to shift the blame onto the scouting team when someone questioned the players signed under Ten Hag. If there's any truth in these players being suggested and signed because of the scouts, they all have to go.

 

[golden_blunder]

I was going to say that he’d be good at winding up the Christmas lights but remembered that Scrooge cancelled Christmas to pay for a Rashford night out

 

[jem]

Acording to transfermarkt, Varane, Sancho, Antony, Hojlund, Casemiro, Lisandro, Mount, Onana and Zirkzee account for almost 600m euros spent.

4 summer windows.

What should we take of this decision making?

Has the scouting team been fired altogether?

What positive impact have they make on the team, club, youth and so on?

9 players, 600 mil, 0 relevance.

Well looking at that list (excluding Varane and Sancho), it looks like the club partially took on Rangnick’s advice regarding open heart surgery. The problem is that they seemingly got Dr Nick Riviera to do the procedure.

 

[Roboc7]

And if injuries hit?

He probably still won’t play, unless it’s quite a few injuries. and if he does play he probably won’t play very well. What do we lose, a player who doesn’t play, doesn’t have a role in the team and isn’t very good. I really don’t see even slightest concern about him leaving.

 

[Berbaclass]

 

[Acrobat7]

I can only envision loaning him out and hoping that he does well to sell him in the summer. His book value is still so high that selling him for 20m doesn't even really help United.

 

[Xeque_279]

Just don’t understand why we persist on playing him on his unnatural side. Just has to be an improvement doing a job covering lw. We really do the weirdest things, even without ETH.

He's always played as a Right Winger. That is his natural side.

 

[BuzzKillington]

We don’t really get anything at all from this. Olympiacos don’t have any money, and nobody watches the Greek league, so he wouldn’t even be getting put in the shop window. The only really tangible benefit would be I don’t have to acknowledge his existence for 5 months.

 

[Roboc7]

We don’t really get anything at all from this. Olympiacos don’t have any money, and nobody watches the Greek league, so he wouldn’t even be getting put in the shop window. The only really tangible benefit would be I don’t have to acknowledge his existence for 5 months.

It’s not ideal but a loan fee, a wage contribution and some regular football might help loan him out on better terms next season.

 

[daba]

We don’t really get anything at all from this. Olympiacos don’t have any money, and nobody watches the Greek league, so he wouldn’t even be getting put in the shop window. The only really tangible benefit would be I don’t have to acknowledge his existence for 5 months.

I agree, a loan deal only makes sense to one of the top 6 or 7 leagues. Anywhere below Eredivisie, Portugal or Turkey at a push does us no favours come the summer.

The Real Betis link interest me the most. Top league and a club that has a track record of reviving lost players like Fekir, Lo Celso, Willi Carvalho, etc.

If he flops like Martial at Sevilla, the Greek League will still be there come the summer as a plan B.

 

[DavelinaJolie]

We don’t really get anything at all from this. Olympiacos don’t have any money, and nobody watches the Greek league, so he wouldn’t even be getting put in the shop window. The only really tangible benefit would be I don’t have to acknowledge his existence for 5 months.

I'm not sure I agree with this, teams look for talent from all leagues, it would be a lack of diligence if they didn't. The problem is that Antony is a known commodity at this point and seemingly his performance levels rule out any club that could compensate to make any significant offset on his wages, which is probably why we're seeing a Greek club as a potential front runner. What we have to hope is if he goes he shines enough to maybe get a team from a bigger league to take a chance in him on a season long loan and take a bigger wage share. A team like Betis may be a better choice for us probably, but who knows if that's real (or any of this!).

Shifting him is going to be hard regardless because of the break even point on him due to the transfer fee, and probably wages. The best we can hope for is someone to take on some of his wages to reduce his balance against the books for a period and as the break even/loss gets smaller start looking for willing clubs that can afford it.

I think we've got him until either the last year of his contract, or he leaves on a free.

 

[daba]

I'm not sure I agree with this, teams look for talent from all leagues, it would be a lack of diligence if they didn't. The problem is that Antony is a known commodity at this point and seemingly his performance levels rule out any club that could compensate to make any significant offset on his wages, which is probably why we're seeing a Greek club as a potential front runner. What we have to hope is if he goes he shines enough to maybe get a team from a bigger league to take a chance in him on a season long loan and take a bigger wage share. A team like Betis may be a better choice for us probably, but who knows if that's real (or any of this!).

Shifting him is going to be hard regardless because of the break even point on him due to the transfer fee, and probably wages. The best we can hope for is someone to take on some of his wages to reduce his balance against the books for a period and as the break even/loss gets smaller start looking for willing clubs that can afford it.

I think we've got him until either the last year of his contract, or he leaves on a free.

I think I'd rather we keep him here and use him as a back-up option than send him to Greece. Sure he might shine, but there's also a chance he doesn't and then we're truly fecked.

If there isn't a good option like Betis then keep him here, give him the odd 20 min cameo where he either his usual unspectacular self or actually alright in the odd game, and then wait for the summer to get him a decent loan.

 

[DavelinaJolie]

I think I'd rather we keep him here and use him as a back-up option than send him to Greece. Sure he might shine, but there's also a chance he doesn't and then we're truly fecked.

If there isn't a good option like Betis then keep him here, give him the odd 20 min cameo where he either his usual unspectacular self or actually alright in the odd game, and then wait for the summer to get him a decent loan.

We're kinda fecked either way though. I'm ambivalent about the situation because on the face of it, it's a hole we can't dig ourselves out of. He's not good enough, even when he puts the maximum effort in, to be on the field, and we probably can't clear a significant enough proportion of his wages on a loan to make a massive difference on a six month loan (a quick Google suggests the top earner in the Greek leage is between £2m-£3m per year, but that could be nonsense of course).

It's a bed the club needs to lie in because in terms of the quality of the player and the amount involved, it may be the worst combination.

If the PSR stuff is accurate, I guess any money shaved is good. But if things are that bad, it's pretty ominous for the next couple of seasons.

 

[Revan]

Throw in Harry Maguire to make it a third of a billion

Sancho and Hojlund get you to nearly half

As underwhelming as Maguire has been, he should not be mentioned in the same sentence as those players. Sancho on the other hand, definitely yes.

 

[Nogho]

Saloon doors, will hit you in the back.