Ajax really seem to want to hold on to this fella.
Antony | Here we go! €100mill, contract until June 2027, option 'til 2028.
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They said so in the beginning of the Transfer market...
Haller, Alvarez we can talk about for reasonable prices... Besides that Gravenberch Onana Mazraoui Tagliafico were already leaving..
Timber, Martinez and Antony we only let go for monstrous prices.. I reckon that now that they have got such an amount for Martinez (even though I think he's worth it for United in the long run), the will to hold on to Antony only increased..
The problem with the valuation is that it is likely higher than what you could get next summer. Even if he has a blinder of a season, he's not going to demand de Jong type money. We're the only game in town willing to pay that much and it is mostly because Ten Hag wants him badly. So what do you tell Antony? We'll sell you next season? What if we buy Gapko and he's a huge success? Who is going to come in for him at that price?
Might have a different view when he realises you turned down silly money for him. He'd be one of the most expensive transfers this season with that outlay.
Well you are still hanging onto pure winger argument. Let’s just move ahead into bigger perspective, let’s do their comparison in terms of attacking player, and let’s make it clear:
Tadic > Antony
in whatever objective metric one could mostly use.
You can keep using your own eye test or break it down into small area to support your own claim, but that’s only your opinion.
And there’s almost nothing you could use to argue against the following:
- Antony has very high shot on goal and very low goal return, which means he is very wasteful and poor in finishing in a poor league, and far worst than Tadic
- Antony goal and assist number is below average in Dutch league, and far below Tadic
- Antony performance level in terms of average rating is well below Tadic.
- Antony has clearly less motm than Tadic
- Antony creates far less chance than Tadic
His valuation could definetely decrease.. Maybe even purposefully.. What Ajax often agreed with players is: stay another year, we'll let you go for less next summer... So that Ajax has more chance of becoming champions and getting further in europe, which also means significant money..
I think - given how Ajax usually does business - they would rather sell him for 60 next year than for 90 this year..
That's a big what if.
If Antony keeps up as he has been Real Madrid, PSG may throw their name into the hat. RM attacking line is thin as is. Their right side is weaker even. PSG unlikely give Messi a longer contract, so they may as well looking to replace him.
If we were paying stupid money to Ajax, we might as well paid a fee for Antony instead of Martinez.
Are we talking about Brighton and Brentford here? Stop it mate, you are embarrassing all of us.
Fair enough. Ten Hag doesn't strike me as someone who just "gives up", so I guess we'll be back next season
You know Tadic took penalty for Ajax, no?
He missed a bunch, yet netted 4 last season and to bump his number to 13. Comparing to Antony that's 1 single goal apart. Then this free kick goal in this game, I remembered seeing when the game's livestreamed.
I am unsure about whether Tadic had other free kick goal last season, but he's set piece taker. Did your stats tell you that? Didn't I tell you about his lower passing completion stats, and long pass stats? He's spamming with setpiece for stat padding, while in open play it's easier to notice who is more influential in 90 minutes.
When did stats site rating is the metric to rate player? You know the way they compile rating would mean a penalty goal skewing the rating of real life lower performing players. The MOTM in real life can go to different players than they one on these stats site, too.
Clearly exposing yourself not even watch a few games based on nothing but stats out of context.
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Not sure about that one. 30m is a big difference. I genuinely think Ajax is very close to accepting an offer. There could be a few reasons why Ajax hasn't accepted it. Obviously one is that we're simply getting closer to the end of the window. It will be harder to get a replacement now and that player will cost more money now as well. I am not counting Conceicao as his replacement. We brought in Conceicao now to see if he'd be fit to replace Antony. We're not going to sell our best player and leave his heritage to a totally unproven player. I don't believe that. Hence, if Ajax sells Antony, we're going to bring someone else in. That player will be more costly now as well.
Secondly, obviously United is panicking and United have paid Ajax potentially 67m for Martinez. Antony is an attacker, which is always a more expensive player than a defender. Antony is also a few years younger. He's clearly valued a lot higher than Martinez. If United were willing to pay 67m (including add ons) for Martinez, they might feel like United will be paying a lot more than 80m for Antony. Regardless of what some United fans, who barely have seen Antony play are saying, Antony is clearly our best player potentially. Even if Martinez has won POTY, even if Tadic got the better stats, Ajax fans know Antony was always our ace. Especially in Champions League his extraordinary qualities can take us to a higher level.
Thirdly, we don't know the exact details of this United offer. If United just offered a straight 80m, even I would say it's a bold move from Ajax to reject it. However if United bid 65m + 15 add ons for example, I'd very much expect Ajax to reject that (especially at this point). We don't know these details.
Last but not least, we don't know what's happening behind the scenes. Ajax may have told United that this offer is close to what Ajax require but just not quite enough yet and Ajax need a few days to line-up a replacement and therefore also not accepting anything soon. My feeling is that unless this was an 'all or nothing'-bid from United, this deal is on. I don't expect this to be an 'all or nothing' bid from United though. Ajax were never likely to accept a first serious bid this close to the deadline. Hence I think United will return and I do feel like we're getting to a price tag where it's hard for Ajax to keep declining.
On the other hand, Ajax got a much bigger fee for Martinez than even Ajax fans anticipated and Ajax have absolutely no problem in holding on to Antony. Ajax have been said from the start that they want to keep Antony. So for all the people expecting / wanting Antony to kick up a fuss, it's not really to be expected as Antony could expect Ajax to stand fierce on this position. Moreover, Antony has looked like a very happy camper in the past few weeks. On top of that, even if he did kick up a fuss, I doubt Ajax would care. With a mere two weeks to go in the window, Ajax would be able to get through that time. After the window is closed, what's Antony going to do? Refuse to play or play like dogshit on purpose and then miss out on the WC? Of course he won't. He'll be happy to play here and will give his absolute best even if he stays here.
Nevertheless my gut feeling is that if United return with an improved offer, this deal is likely to happen. When 80/90m is offerered we're getting to a place where it's hard for Ajax to reject it. The risk/reward ratio for Ajax to keep him really changes at those amounts. I said from the beginning of this topic that Ajax wouldn't and shouldn't accept 60/65m for Antony as Ajax would easily be able to get that next year as well if he just keeps doing what he's doing. However at 80m+ we're getting to a point that Antony would need to play an absolute screamer of a season for Ajax to be able to get 80-100m for him next season. If he plays a decent season we'll get 60m for him next season as well, therefore it makes no sense for us to sell him an amount in that range right now. However at an 80M+ offer we're getting to a point where there's a serious downside risk for Ajax as well. Therefore I expect this deal to happen somewhere in the next week.
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That's fine, that's not the point. We know he will leave next year, we just want him one more year. We have his replacement for next year already, so no worries. The objective is 100% to keep him 1 more year. Nothing more. Nothing less.Fair enough. Ten Hag doesn't strike me as someone who just "gives up", so I guess we'll be back next season
Looks like we already have tried
Don't forget City (Mahrez needs replacement soon), Chelsea and possibly even Liverpool (how long will Salah maintain his level?). If Antony really shows himself next season these teams could definitely be in for him next year. Obvioulsy he'd have to make his mark in CL/WC or at the very least vastly improve on his stats in Eredivisie. However that's not an unrealistic scenario. He has the talent to do it.
Why are you embarrassed newbie?
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Reading from a normally well informed insider that UTD wants to spread out the 80 million over 8 years, no wonder we directly refused it.
Take it with a pinch of salt but if true I can see why we declined it.
Take it with a pinch of salt but if true I can see why we declined it.
I meant back in July, it had better chances of happening before they sold Martinez.Looks like we already have tried
Why are Ajax so desperate to keep him for huge money?
They've just signed Bergwijn who's scoring bucket loads of goals. It's clear the Eredivisie is quite an easy league to score in.
They should take the money and sign another good quality forward, then laugh all the way to the bank.
They've just signed Bergwijn who's scoring bucket loads of goals. It's clear the Eredivisie is quite an easy league to score in.
They should take the money and sign another good quality forward, then laugh all the way to the bank.
I agree... Thats why I also stated in another bost.. 80M+ means you are getting in the area of 'an offer you simply cannot refuse'... But the extent to which Ajax are likely to accept the offer I can imagine can be also dependent on Antony his attitude and preferences..
I also expect that even though Ajax might want to hold on to him, even for absurd amounts, its just not healthy towards your players, towards your image and appeal as ideal stepping stone, towards your financial situation, to refuse a 80+ million offer... Even though I think that if Antony wants to stay, they would be happy to keep him another year and sell him for less next season...
We'll see what happens...
I guess there is something like this:
Ajax still needs quality players for big games. Their current vision is to establish dominance for regular CL qualification. It has big positive impact on long term financially. It helps in hand to increase their dominance if they keep building on recent success.
That kind of cutting edge younger quality player may not easy to be persuaded to come to Dutch league. Buying Bergwjin, a Dutch who is considered surplus at Tottenham cost them record fee. It's definitely harder to persuade known quality players with other destination preference to move there. They can't afford to keep signing Tadic kind of signing, player with no sell on value.
Taking punt to find the new Antony from South America or else where is not that easy.
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I think it is principle. They want to limit the decimation of their team in one summer.
You are clear talking bullshite, as there nothing to backup your claim to prove Antony being more outstanding player than Tadic, other than “stats doesn’t matter” or “motm doesn’t matter”.
You need to consider In terms of passing Taduc still creates far far more chances than Antony, and also result in far far more assists of course.
Whereas Antony still make far far more shots on goals than Tadic, and score less goals. So even when you discount penalties, Anthony is still far far more wasteful than any other top players in the league.
This 2 alone already refute your whole claim here.
I can see how every league outside of the Premier League looks like a Mickey Mouse league.
But this is really disrespectful to the achievements of the Dutch clubs in recent years.
The Eredivisie has risen quickly, mainly to more financially responsible and competent policy.
The Netherlands are going to pass Portugal on the UEFA County coefficients ranking for 6th place.
And the difference with France will be small as well.
Considering the results between French and Dutch teams I'd say it's really close.
Now I will say that the bottom half of the Eredivisie is definitely not up to standards with the top 5 leagues.
However Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord and AZ have shown to be players in the European competitions.
In fact Ajax will climb into the top 10 of the UEFA ranking and may even overtake Man Utd.
One thing that's probably being understated is the unique style of football that Ajax plays.
It benefits technically skilled players with high positional awareness.
In particular home-grown players who are familiar with the system and type of play.
So when players leave that trusted environment it's probably harder to adjust to another club than for most players.
On the other hand, because of the emphasis on build-up play with quick combinations and a high defensive line it's not always easy for Ajax to find players on the transfermarket that fit the system. I find the critics on Maguire a bit of a witch hunt as he's done fairly okay in the two matches, but the reality is that a Maguire, a Wan Bissaka, a McTominay or an Elanga would never find a spot in the starting team of Ajax.
I'm not really too fussed about this one. It's not like we're having this stance towards a player that's been playing for us for 4/5 years. In that case this argument would be a better one IMO. Sure Ajax brings players that use Ajax as a stepping stone. Ajax however also wants to build a team and be succesfull on the pitch. From that stance a 2 year period is too short. Ajax generally wants to keep the players 3/4 years before selling them on. One season to adjust to the new country/club/team and then hopefully at least 2 seasons where the player can shine for the club. I don't think that's an unfair wish from Ajax towards the players that Ajax offers this opportunity to. I think Ajax can very well still sell themselves to huge talents from abroad and explain why a huge offer could be declined in this case. Antony has just been around for 2 seasons and Ajax can never build a decent team if the best players leave after 2 years every time. Sometimes there are exceptions, but from Ajax' point of view generally speaking a two year period is too short and I think players from abroad will be able to understand that one as it's not unreasonable.
Not sure Ajax will be able to hold out if United go in again. It’s obvious the player would be open to coming and may agitate for it too.
Not sure United will go in again though. Will depends how far apart they are on it.
Not sure United will go in again though. Will depends how far apart they are on it.
If we've bid 80 million euros as reported i can't see us going any higher, nor should we as it's a more than fair bid.
Possibly a change in structure?
If @Thoms is correct, it may have been rejected for the way it is structured. Perhaps we can pay more up front and it will be more satisfactory for them.
How about xG stats comparison?
5 more is far more shots and more wasteful than the one missing multiple penalty while already stats padding, right?
Yeah, someone play more central, less involved outside of final third, taking set piece, less pressure receive the ball while being double teamed out wide, create far more. Shocker.
Ignoring inferior long ball pass, pass completion stats. Conveniently running away from "winger" claim.
Oh so now you're comparing not compare to only Tadic but other top players in the league. Who are those? Laughable for someone who is shown not watch even a dozen Eredisive games to talk about this and that top players.
Ajax really seem to know we're desperate and want to squeeze every available million from us.
I can't see an 8 year structure being true but maybe we have tried to take the piss a little as we are reluctant to pay so much and have caved in.
I'm sorry, but stats really don't give the full picture. Without the threat by the speed and dribbling skills of Antony (and now also Bergwijn) it would be a lot harder for the likes of Tadic to get in a position to use their creativity with crosses and passes into the box. Last season the midfield of Ajax was mediocre and without the great defense (Timber, Martinez) and right wing (Mazraoui, Antony) we had a lot of difficulty footballing (not sure this is an English word). During the weeks we missed Martinez, Mazraoui and Antony due to injuries the level of play decreased enormously. Tadic will be 34 in November, he's not the MVP of Ajax like he was three years ago.
Any Ajax fan will most likely agree that Antony is currently our most important and promising player. Some may name Timber, but the market of attackers is always a lot more expensive anyway.
I think they just want to have a strong team and keep their good players.
Anthony should just hand in a transfer request..
United is only going after the players Ajax stated - before United shows interest allegedly - would only go for insane prices as they wanted to hold on to them at least one more year: Timber, Martinez, Alvarez...
Well, it's United in the transfer window. If there's a bad call to be made, we'll make it.
Oh god, let's just not fall into this trap again after DvB and Martinez (admittedly, the latter I'm willing to give some time). 8 goals 4 assists in last season in the Dutch league is depressingly average. If you aim at significantly improving the starting eleven at Manchester United you're not going to pay the 'Ajax-tax' that has been paid many times for players that stood out at Ajax but were just shockingly mediocre at their new club. From friends that I have that follow the Eredivisie closely they all discourage us paying shitloads for this guy.
Well you are completely ignoring his shots on goal stats there. Anyway here’s their overall attacking stats comparison.
Tadic
Shot on goal: 2.2
Goal: 13
Key pass: 4.1
Assist: 19
Dribble: 1.1
Avg rating: 7.80
Motm: 7
Antony
Shot on goal: 3.4
Goal: 8
Key pass: 1.6
Assist: 4
Dribble: 1.8
Avg rating: 7.47
Motm: 3
Gakpo
Shot on goal: 3
Goal: 12
Key pass: 2.6
Assist: 13
Dribble: 2.9
Avg rating: 7.79
Motm: 9
Best goalscorer/finishing: Tadic
Worst: Antony
Best creator/assist: Tadic
Worst: Antony
Best dribbler: Gakpo
Worst: Tadic
Best performer: Gakpo/Tadic
Worst: Antony
Sorry but there’s no objective metric to support your claim. Look I am not saying he is bad player, but he definitely isn’t the most impressive one from Dutch league, and definitely not worth 80m+ we are trying to bid here. Painful truth is that he has very average stats on shooting, key pass, assist, goals, dribbling and performance, in about every measurable metric we would look at an attacking wing forward.
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