It still staggers me that no-one could see this would be a terrible idea in advance of it being proposed.
Antony dos Santos (Out)
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
- Status
It still staggers me that no-one could see this would be a terrible idea in advance of it being proposed.
I know Antony's rep is at an all time low, but when he was out and Pellistri got starts, there was nothing there. Not much more with Antony in all honesty, but I rate him slightly higher than Pellistri
And we ended up running Garnacho into the ground.
Also, our starting wingers this season are not the same as last season, if not both, at least one (depending on what happens with Rashford) is still getting used to full games in top level football, so our wingers staying fit last season doesn't necessarily apply. I expect one or both to regularly come off around the 70th minute mark to cater for the heavy schedule.
No he isn’t. I don’t believe that for a second.
Well, from his perspective, last season was horrible, and sitting on the bench all year won't help rebuild his reputation. I don't think he wants to leave, but if the message from ETH is that he's behind Amad and Garna, then yeah he can't afford to stay.
What are you basing this on? Raphina and Richarlison already proved themselves in the PL when they transferred for big money.
Richarlison was a bright spark at Watford and was talismanic at Everton before his Spurs move. Raphina was equally talismanic at Leeds before Barcelona signed him.
Watford originally paid 12M pounds for Richarlison from Fluminense and Leeds paid 18M for Raphina from Rennes in Ligue 1
The united scouts were realistic with their evaluation of Antony.
With games to be played every three days, he’ll get his chance anyways. Add to it that the 3 ahead of him are Rashford, Amad and Garnacho. One or more of them is bound to be injured/out of form. No way Antony goes right now. He may never get a better chance to get minutes in our team.
A reasonable difference of opinion. But I saw more potential in Pellistri than in Antony. But Antony does have the edge in athleticism and he’s definitely a better option in defending a late, but not in a million years in chasing a match winner.
To be fair it worked pretty well vs Newport and Liverpool in the cup this same year, so a million years may be pushing it.
That is fair. Pellistri definitely had some issues with the physicality of the PL but he was younger and a lot less experienced than Antony and yet still showed the ability to use both feet and also the desire to take on his man and not just pass back all the time. Both have a long way to go but right now I would back Pellistri to have the better career.
I dont believe it either. I do believe though he thinks hes actually good enough/worthy enough to be here and that he wont go until he is told bugger off.
We have so many games this season I can see him playing a fair few. No way should he leave. Its not like we have loads in the youth teams banging on the door either
Definition of a luxury signing. Washed out already. Time for a loan somewhere to try and recoup some money.
Why would ETH push for us to sign Antony for 50 million in the first place though? The fact he wanted to sign him at all signals he's really not a very good judge of talent or judge of how to build an elite team at an elite club.
At any moment ETH could also have said "80 million? We best leave it and find me another player instead, he's not that good".
Luxury player is generous
It is not the manager's job to ascertain the market value of a player. That was John Murtough's job. And he was very bad at it.
Nevertheless, it would be slightly amusing if Ineos have since restructured the roles above the manager and then just leave it up to him to decide if the selling club's asking price is too high.
Ten Hag could've easily said 'look, I don't think this price reflects Antony's current development and my need for him, let's focus on other targets.
He had veto power that he could've used if he felt the inflated price would add pressure on him and Antony, not to mention the ripple effect on future transfer windows which I'm sure was discussed
Ofcourse the club want to put it that way they were interested in Antony before ETH. They won't want to embarrass the incumbent manager like that. Too much of a coincidence to believe though.
Can we keep the same energy for all our players? Pellestri is garbage and that doesn’t change because he’s youngish.
I must have missed the part when he was luxury, just looks like a shit signing all round to me.
We kind of do actually, they're just perhaps a year or two too young to be ready to challenge, similarly to e.g. Amass at full back. It's not lack of talent for the likes of Williams, Lacey and Mantato, just either injuries or they still have developing to do before they're ready to play regularly.
Luxuries are non-essential but enjoyable. He has brought mostly misery at a high cost, akin to a parasite or tumour.
I would take a loan with 50% wages covered.
Kind of, but not the kind he was talking of. Williams is the closest, but he is quite some distance away from Antony still.
Very dubious that we would loan him out at this point but if we did do we feel comfortable with the wide options we have?
- Rashford - Been very poor for 18 months
- Garnacho - Huge potential but young and still pretty inconsistent
- Amad - Also huge potential but still pretty unproven at the highest level
- Mount - Can play wide but always injured
- Bruno - Has played there a few times but he is much less effective
He's definitely going to play a lot. Only 3 wingers above him and even if they do stay fit throughout the season, we'll need to rest them every now and then given how we're playing 3 games a week from now onwards.
Can definitely see him starting cup/europe games.
He's not going anywhere, not before the end of the season. Us letting Sancho go was based on ""We felt we had enough depth in that particular position to be able to cover it, we've got four really good wide players, Jadon was a fifth, and it just enabled us to make that decision." straight answer on Sancho's situation by Ashworth.
Even if we bring a new winger in January, I can't see Antony going anywhere before the summer transfer window.
Even if we bring a new winger in January, I can't see Antony going anywhere before the summer transfer window.
United tracks a lot of players, doesn't mean we want to sign them all.
I agree it's not all EtH's fault but everyone who approved this deal should be sacked if they haven't already left. Having worked with him closely, it's mental that EtH thought he was even good enough for us. As others have pointed out, surely he was made aware that the price was going to be £80m or so.
Given his output, i.e., just about good enough to be a sub, I wouldn't have paid more than £20m for him at the time, let alone £50m.
I used to think Ole did the most damage to United since Fergie left, but EtH has taken on the mantle.
Why does it have to be ‘damage’?
Different managers have different ideas that won’t always follow on from their predecessor but all managers are working in the best interests of the club and specifically the teams success. They are all trying to win in the best way they know otherwise hey ultimately will love their job.
Hopefully with the new structure in place there will be more continuity from one hire to the next, and a more settled direction with the playing squad so we don’t need huge rebuilds and fire sales every summer, but I don’t understand the idea that anything before that since sir Alex has been ‘damage’.
Let’s be honest, the only people who have actively damaged the club are the Glazers and their stooge Woodward.
I think we need to stop calling Garnacho inconsistent. At least at club level, he seems to have a goal involvement almost every game and the next closest attacker we have in terms of that kind of impact is Bruno. He should be the second name on the team sheet every game.
Garnacho is inconsistent? Really? in every match he pretty much always seems to make something happen. He should have had two goals already this season and that's with him coming off the bench.
Because they (Ole & EtH) bought the worst players that have been/will be difficult to offload, and both managers were hired at key stages of our decline. Of course, Woodward & co are the biggest culprits.
Did you watch Antony at Ajax before he came to United? I did and he was exciting and skillful and personally I wanted us to sign him long before Ten Hag was ever linked to United. Don't forget Liverpool and Arsenal were also heavily linked with the player. 40% of transfers flop, it happens, sometimes it's more predictable, others it isn't. He clearly hasn't adapted to the league or country, he is devoid of confidence because we don't see any flare, the one time he tried some flare the media, including all our ex players, destroyed him afterwards. And he does seem like a sensitive guy. On top of that he had these allegations thrown at him last year. At this point I don't see him coming good at United, but there is definitely a player there, go watch his Ajax highlights.
I am a human who was alive during that timeframe, I personally liked the player, I am a casual Ajax fan as well, I watched him, liked him and was very aware from the even before Jan his name was being linked with United. It's not just PR, I remember this reality.
On my birthday this year I wanted a steak diner, my wife could have taken me to the local place for a steak that cost $50, but she took me downtown to a fancy place where the steak was $300. Now it was great and I appreciated it, but I asked for a steak, a steak costs $50 normally, but if someone who receives the request takes it upon themselves to think outside the box, that's on them, not the person who made the original request. Was Ten Hag holding them hostage? The Glazers are cheap as hell and take forever to make a decision, do people think Ten Hag called them up and started demanding they fork over as much money as possible? No, he said I want this player, and those two idiots Murtough and Arnold made dumb decisions, and they have both been fired for dumb decisions like that while Ten Hag has been retained because he wasn't responsible. Any manager is going to ask for as much as they can get, it's up to the decision makers at the club to make the right decisions.
He was doing the same things at Ajax as he's attempted at United, with different results. The difference is he's up against much better players in the PL. His Ajax numbers are also from from impressive
If Pellistri is garbage, Antony is an entire landfill. But Antony does have a vastly superior goal celebration routine, that tiger scowl look or whatever it’s supposed to be. A shame he can’t score goals, though you can count on him to take that ridiculous potshot off his left foot 2-3 times every game.
Your analogy makes little sense, you're comparing a $300 steak v an $80m flop!
Am sorry the rest of your text is hard to follow... But, for the sake of this discussion it doesn't matter if EtH called them up or the Glazers are slow to make decisions, what matters is EtH was part of the decision making to spend £80m on a flop who can't even start for us.
Woodward and co. have rightly left the club or been pushed out, but we are seeing the results of not sacking EtH.
No, of course not. Pellestri played 160 minutes of football. Antony has 1000+ minutes in each of his two seasons. It's incredibly silly to treat each player the same.
Feck off out of the transfer thread with the general chats, I keep thinking we've gotten rid of this idiot.
They bought players to fit the way they want to play. They didn’t set the buying prices, they didn’t agree stupid expensive contracts and they sure as hell didn’t go out to buy duds. The club is just as culpable as the managers for the scouting system either not flagging concerns or not being listened to. That’s on Woodward, Judge, Arnold and Murtough as are the financials.
I’m also confident that some of the players you are referring to won’t have been picked by the managers. DVB is a good example, who was a cheap alternative to Grealish who Ole really wanted. Same with Casemiro and FDJ. It’s too simplistic to condemn the manager when we have a whole system in place to affect the way the club does business, and it’s ludicrous in my humble opinion to suggest a manager has done ‘damage’. The situations unfold at the time, and whether they are positive or negative is a matter for hindsight.
That’s an easy one to answer, he’s not going anywhere and neither is Casemiro. Now you don’t need to keep looking - although thanks is for being so eloquent and polite.
Discuss a player in his performance thread, it's not that hard.That’s an easy one to answer, he’s not going anywhere and neither is Casemiro. Now you don’t need to keep looking - although thanks is for being so eloquent and polite.
- Status