So very little difference between what he did in Holland and what he’s been doing so far with us?
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So very little difference between what he did in Holland and what he’s been doing so far with us?
Only sign Brazillians whose name ends in o. It's the golden rule.
Vinicius, Neymar, Guimaraes, Silva, Martinelli and both their top keepers?
Rules are meant to be broken but it opens you up to risk.Vinicius, Neymar, Guimaraes, Silva, Martinelli and both their top keepers?
Completely different situations tbf. But it's fair to say neither are as good as what Greenwood, Martial & Rashford were when they broke through so maybe the grass isn't always greener elsewhere.
I've got more hope for Sancho - you don't get the sort of productivity he had by accident, and the fact that Haaland has come in and become even more productive in the PL should be a good sign.
Nothing you've said is wrong but the issue with Antony is the things that are missing in his game are alarming and the possibility of developing some of those skills at this stage of his career to the required level don't seem good in my opinion.
Another thing is there are a few Ajax fans that aren't surprised by the criticism and also questioned the limitations in his game. This is what makes me a doom and gloom merchant unfortunately. The stats backup my eye test and it's worrisome.
There are players that come to the league and look a shell of what they looked like at their previous clubs to start with and develop slowly. Bernardo Silva is a good example, he was pretty meh in his first season but we all saw at Monaco what type of player he was and eventually became that in his second season. Antony I fear we're hoping he develops skills that were never top class to begin with, so I'm not as hopeful that he will come good.
The things he's good at he does very well but where he has weaknesses, they are glaring. Sancho has had a dreadful season and he still beats Antony in key attacking stats.
Its also the mental factor. Antony strikes as more of a resilient and confident character than Sancho does. There's no doubting Sancho is a huge talent, but there are considerable doubts over his mental fortitude, whereas Antony doesn't look like the type to shy away.
You‘d think that would be common sense
He’s missed a few easy chances on his left foot as well so should really be in 7/8 goals as we stand.
That only takes you so far though. Character and personality aren't what determine your potential - that's ability. Sadly I think Antony's ceiling isn't that great even if he has those other characteristics.
Sancho if he can't get over his own battles, will never achieve his potential - which should be much higher.
Both might fail to be good enough at the end. Antony for not having enough ability, and Sancho for not actually maximising his own.
Not sure I agree.
For starters, its too early to determine either of their respective ceilings. I'd say both have the potential to be great players since both are immensely talented.
The mental aspect is IMO what propels them to improve ability wise.
Yeah, nothing really incredible defensively with either United or Ajax but his contributions overall are similar. Bruno is the only one from our forwards/attacking midfielders with great defensive stats which is needed considering how little Rashford, Martial and even Eriksen contribute in that regard.
Antony's defensive stats, United is on the left.
This is the issue though. I don't buy the whole immensely talented arguement with Antony. There's nothing about him that makes me as a football fan go wow. It's not as if we haven't seen actually talented young players at this club - the likes of Rooney, Ronaldo, Nani, Martial, Greenwood & Rashford just screamed of the immense amount of ability they had. Some of them never lived up to it for various reasons (some maybe the intangibles you're mentioning), but the talent was unquestionable.
Antony I don't see it at all. I haven't seen it with Sancho as well at Utd, but the numbers are almost impossible to ignore prior to United.
Already better than anything Sancho did in the PL.
Well done mate
Well done mate
Yeah, nothing really incredible defensively with either United or Ajax but his contributions overall are similar. Bruno is the only one from our forwards/attacking midfielders with great defensive stats which is needed considering how little Rashford, Martial and even Eriksen contribute in that regard.
Antony's defensive stats, United is on the left.
Huh. I thought he was coming to us with spectacular stats when it comes to defensive work (pressures etc) Those are all very average. Where are you getting the data? Would love to compare defensive work of Rashford and Martial, pre and post ETH.
TIFO mentioned this and I think it's an issue of not having that target man to take up that positioning, which is what Weghorst might be brought in to do.
Ultimately ETH needs to get his players to work on that and get into the right mindset/positions, having Antony here at this juncture where it the other players around don't necessarily understand that or don't do it by default makes Antony look a little lost, but the rest of the team needs to catch up.
All are from Fbref, they used to have pressures but not anymore.
Good post. There are plenty of positives with Antony. He's scored some cracking goals and for everyone complaining about him not using his right foot well that's something ten Hag agrees with too. It's been reported in the Athletic for a while that ten Hag has Antony doing drills in training with his weaker foot. He's young and still improving his overall game. He's going to be a brilliant player for us.
Yeah, you're right, I should have said he can "learn to go right (while dribbling with his left)" and "trust his right foot more to hit simple low passes across the box."
Garnacho took the outside yesterday to set up the early Dalot chance, and Antony declined to do the same later in the first half and turned around fully. I don't think Ten Hag minds him losing the ball in the box via cutbacks so much, so hopefully we'll see a change there.
I'm not sure if Antony's right foot is bad or mediocre, because I haven't seen him use it much. But a lot of confidence issues with actually using it for wingers seem more based in balance than the ball striking, and his balance is special, so maybe he can learn to trust it once he feels comfortable here.
It was also a brilliant goal that effectively decided the game since Charlton had to open things up and Rashford sealed it with the space in behind.
Me and a lot of professional former player do not agree. Ability can only get you so far. If you have the will and the mentality you can go further. Without will you are an average footballer showing your abilities only a few times in a season. It is your will that drives you to show up every match
I think people are jumping too quick on Anthony, he is showing glimpses of his potential, but I have to agree with the fact that he needs to do some work on his right foot. It seems most times he is very reluctant to take on players down that side out of fear of losing the ball, even though sometimes he ends up losing it because its so predicatble. However, give him time, he does put a shift in, still adapting to life in a new league, I believe he will come good. GGMU!!!!
I think the fee weighs quite heavy on how some are judging him. We obviously overpaid for him, I guess as we badly wanted a left footed winger. So he came in with a massive price tag and got a goal on his debut - expectation was then very high. He's only 22, showed definite potential and is adjusting to stepping up into a stronger league. More than anything I have faith in ten Hag to coach and develop him into a top player.
Pressures are what he excels in, and you can't see that by stats.Yeah, nothing really incredible defensively with either United or Ajax but his contributions overall are similar. Bruno is the only one from our forwards/attacking midfielders with great defensive stats which is needed considering how little Rashford, Martial and even Eriksen contribute in that regard.
Antony's defensive stats, United is on the left.
It's the way he sprints at his opponent with the ball, then smartly cuts off passing lanes. He doesn't give the LB any time or space or pick easy passes, and he pressures the CB's and goalkeeper when the ball is played back.
He might not immediately win the ball by himself, but he forces opponents into rushing/making mistakes which Casemiro/defence clean up. This just can't be accurately protrayed on a stat sheet.
One thing that struck me is that a player like Antony feeds off the energy of fans more than any other. At the moment he can sense the frustration amongst the fans which is impacting his performances.
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Thanks for sharing the stats. Whilst I know many have commented already on these and think they are worrying, I'm actually the opposite.
Those stats from this season in the PL and his last one in the Eredivisie. They show why he has been disappointing so far, he isn't doing the stuff I expected him to be good at. His dribbling is also faring much worse in the PL but that was expected. It's still early but a lot of worrying signs already and his skill set seems a bit limited.
I'm of the view he's done ok so far and not as bad as most are making out whilst I'm glad his Ajax stats show he's got that in him so he can also improve here.
I'm also of the view Sancho will come good.
Well, in about 18 months we have another excellent product for you. Conceição. (Yes, son of) Cash or debit card?
As I'm not a hypocrite, if he becomes a regular scorer I won't have too many complaints but boy is he holding back or limited? Don't think I've seen a wide player like him
Those stats from this season in the PL and his last one in the Eredivisie. They show why he has been disappointing so far, he isn't doing the stuff I expected him to be good at. His dribbling is also faring much worse in the PL but that was expected. It's still early but a lot of worrying signs already and his skill set seems a bit limited.
That looks bad and he should be doing better, but I assume all those numbers (especially crosses and passes into penalty area) will go up with someone like Weghorst in the box. That is dependent of course on Weghorst and wheather he will be a relative success, but atm there is an obvious lack of target in the opposition penalty box.
He was like Arjen Robben
He used to take people on and that’s what he needs to be doing again
You knew what he was going to do but couldn’t stop him
One thing I’m not a huge fan of how is how much shit he gives his team mates, he was giving it out to Garnacho last night at one point and Dalot the other night on a couple of occasions, both who have been outplaying him.
Right, thanks for that. Didn’t see much of him at Ajax. So he could go on the outside too, yeah, and cross with his right foot? Cos now, every time he is confronted by a defender he turns back. Admittedly his left foot shooting is pretty amazing, but more variation is essential.
A few want to give him time, but a lot on here seem to be backing Sancho after 14months here before he was sent away and jumping on Antony after about 12 games.
People can point to Sancho at Dortmund, but it seems a lot saying this, havent seen much of Antony at Ajax anyway.
Not going to ague about who is more talented, but Antony has already done more in 12 games than Sancho in 14 months here and he probably has more chance to make it as he is a right winger, Sancho may play both sides but looks better on the left and has Garnacho.Rashford undoubtedly ahead of him now.
As another poster says, wonder if its the fee and maybe fact he is Brazilian gaining him so much criticism. He hasnt set the world alight but he has done ok for a new signing and his goals ratio for a winger is pretty good for his first few games. I can see a lot of talent with him and not really understanding the one footed jibes...Giggs, Beckham, Messi....could go on and on with the number of quality wide players barely used there other foot.
Yes, we massively over paid for him, seeing a lot of fairly raw talened players the last season of so going for huge fees which is pretty crazy...but also see others saying hwo great others have been like Rashford and Martial when breakign through....but after there first season they have probably had what a good 6/8months in the other 5/7years here?
We can forget the fee now, we have a talented winger and if he doesnt progress we have others in Amad and Pellestri to call upon as well as possibility of Sancho switching to the right.
Whether he goes on to be a great player or even a good one here who knows, but lets not forget he is a year younger than Dalot who many seem to be raving about who has done very little here until this season and played quite a bit last year.
Personally see a really good player in the making in Antony, just opinion, may be wrong and others not seeign it right....but do find it stange all the criticism he is getting already in comparison to others....actually, no I dont.....Martinez was branded a midget flop and waste of money after hsi debut and I thought he actually did ok in it for his debut....
People can point to Sancho at Dortmund, but it seems a lot saying this, havent seen much of Antony at Ajax anyway.
Not going to ague about who is more talented, but Antony has already done more in 12 games than Sancho in 14 months here and he probably has more chance to make it as he is a right winger, Sancho may play both sides but looks better on the left and has Garnacho.Rashford undoubtedly ahead of him now.
As another poster says, wonder if its the fee and maybe fact he is Brazilian gaining him so much criticism. He hasnt set the world alight but he has done ok for a new signing and his goals ratio for a winger is pretty good for his first few games. I can see a lot of talent with him and not really understanding the one footed jibes...Giggs, Beckham, Messi....could go on and on with the number of quality wide players barely used there other foot.
Yes, we massively over paid for him, seeing a lot of fairly raw talened players the last season of so going for huge fees which is pretty crazy...but also see others saying hwo great others have been like Rashford and Martial when breakign through....but after there first season they have probably had what a good 6/8months in the other 5/7years here?
We can forget the fee now, we have a talented winger and if he doesnt progress we have others in Amad and Pellestri to call upon as well as possibility of Sancho switching to the right.
Whether he goes on to be a great player or even a good one here who knows, but lets not forget he is a year younger than Dalot who many seem to be raving about who has done very little here until this season and played quite a bit last year.
Personally see a really good player in the making in Antony, just opinion, may be wrong and others not seeign it right....but do find it stange all the criticism he is getting already in comparison to others....actually, no I dont.....Martinez was branded a midget flop and waste of money after hsi debut and I thought he actually did ok in it for his debut....
Rashford played 328 appearances delivering 171 G + A
Martial made 281 appearances delivering 136 G + A
their contribution is pretty decent and longer than 6/8 months
Absolutely mental take and find it very hard to believe United fans labelled Martinez a "midget flop" after one game.
Those stats from this season in the PL and his last one in the Eredivisie. They show why he has been disappointing so far, he isn't doing the stuff I expected him to be good at. His dribbling is also faring much worse in the PL but that was expected. It's still early but a lot of worrying signs already and his skill set seems a bit limited.
Out of curiosity, how similar is this profile to Sancho’s at Dortmund and then at United?
No, they begged that he'd be played as a n.10.
He has brought our right wing into play. Now defenders know they can't just defend against our left wingers and ignore the right. Makes a huge difference since their attention will be divided. Also helps that he is a genuine goal threat. Great buy.
Man Utd 2:1 Man City
Garnacho is going to be a bigger star than this guy by far.
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