[Bluelion7]

So, in evaluating American athletic prospects (specifically for NFL-style football) scouts have a term they use “suddenness” to try and and capture whether a player has that combination of fast twitch muscle fibers and coordination that is genuinely rare. Lots of guys have decent careers without ever having that intangible. The really great ones have it in spades.

A lot of you, like me, are probably old enough to remember when Ronaldo was a boatload of “sudden”, acne and seven step overs per touch.

Antony reminds me of that time. Having that super rare physical quality doesnt guarantee success, and I still think they need to get him with a private coach like the one Robben used before and after training for his right foot (just The little bit he added changed how people had to play him greatly)…

….but Antony has a RARE talent that guys like Rodrygo could train for a decade and not have, because you can’t learn it or develop it.

 

[the_cliff]

Is calling it as I see it (and as any normal person should see it) an "issue"?

Yes he was good tonight, far better than Raphinha. Yet, he didn't touch the ball once during the play that lead to Brazil's goal. That's the simple truth.

What I read in this thread by some posters doesn't seem to match the games I see on television. "Gem", "he's so good", "he's going to be a United legend" after good performances is just a huge exageration. You want to see a gem,

Sorry to burst your bubble but he still has a lot to do to deserve being called a "gem". You want to see a gem, watch Kvaratskhelia with Napoli, it's a very different level.

Agreed, I like Antony and was a decent performance when he came on but it wasn't anything incredible, he has a lot to work on.

 

[Oly Francis]

Antony reminds me of that time. Having that super rare physical quality doesnt guarantee success, and I still think they need to get him with a private coach like the one Robben used before and after training for his right foot (just The little bit he added changed how people had to play him greatly)…

That's actually very true, he just needs to be barely good enough so defenders have to think "he COULD go in both directions" even if it's like 80/20. A poker player would say he needs to balance his range.

As Antony starts more and more games, defenders will know how to defend him. The surprise effect will be gone, and they're going to go "mehh, I'm just going to defend the inside". Lets not forget he didn't assist or score in his last 3 games before his injury (even if he did other things like helping with possession).

 

[sillwuka]

I'm warming to him and I think there's a great balance on both wings between him and one of Rashford/Garnacho on the left.

 

[sillwuka]

Do united fans think Anthony is better than Sancho talent wise? Just curious.

I don't think there's much between them ability wise.

I believe Antony will achieve more due his physical ability, Sancho is held back by his lack of athleticism.

 

[Powderfinger]

So, in evaluating American athletic prospects (specifically for NFL-style football) scouts have a term they use “suddenness” to try and and capture whether a player has that combination of fast twitch muscle fibers and coordination that is genuinely rare. Lots of guys have decent careers without ever having that intangible. The really great ones have it in spades.

A lot of you, like me, are probably old enough to remember when Ronaldo was a boatload of “sudden”, acne and seven step overs per touch.

Antony reminds me of that time. Having that super rare physical quality doesnt guarantee success, and I still think they need to get him with a private coach like the one Robben used before and after training for his right foot (just The little bit he added changed how people had to play him greatly)…

….but Antony has a RARE talent that guys like Rodrygo could train for a decade and not have, because you can’t learn it or develop it.

I don’t see that at all with Antony in terms of physical qualities.. He may be very quick from stop to start over five yards but he is slow over the next 15-20 yards. He is constantly beating defenders then having that same defender easily catch him again and either push him off the ball or reroute him backwards.

That ability to beat the man initially looks great on highlight videos but is ultimately not that valuable unless you actually do something with the advantage you gain.

 

[MadMike]

Can only speculate what a 22 year old Modric would be worth in today's market

Modric at 22yo was a highly promising player at Dinamo Zagreb. In today's Market that is going to cost about 30-45m tops. So basically somewhere between double or triple what Spurs paid in 2008.

Modric's development after that is irrelevant to the valuation. There are no crystal balls in life. When you buy a 22yo player from Dinamo that is called Modric, you might see the talent but you don't know how good he will be at his peak. You don't how long he will remain at his peak, you don't know if he'll have a career destroyed by injuries or if he will struggle at the bigger stage or if he'll refuse to renew and walk away for free after the 4-5 years of contract, or or or...

What you sure as hell don't expect, is that he'll reach a World Class peak and sustain that peak for over 10 years. Staying injury free and showing loyalty to him team in the process. The chances for that are akin to landing a EuroMillions ticket.

 

[Andycoleno9]

I don’t see that at all with Antony in terms of physical qualities.. He may be very quick from stop to start over five yards but he is slow over the next 15-20 yards. He is constantly beating defenders then having that same defender easily catch him again and either push him off the ball or reroute him backwards.

That ability to beat the man initially looks great on highlight videos but is ultimately not that valuable unless you actually do something with the advantage you gain.

This. This is what bugs me the most. He often tricks full back, have yards of space and then seconds later, he is again one on one vs that defender (which ends with safe pass to player behind him which basically ends that attack). And it is not about pace. Antony is quick. It is like he lacks confidence to go all the way and what happens happens.

Otherwise, i think he was very good vs Croatia. Did more than Raphinha and Vini together.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Modric at 22yo was a highly promising player at Dinamo Zagreb. In today's Market that is going to cost about 30-45m tops. So basically somewhere between double or triple what Spurs paid in 2008.

Modric's development after that is irrelevant to the valuation. There are no crystal balls in life. When you buy a 22yo player from Dinamo that is called Modric, you might see the talent but you don't know how good he will be at his peak. You don't how long he will remain at his peak, you don't know if he'll have a career destroyed by injuries or if he will struggle at the bigger stage or if he'll refuse to renew and walk away for free after the 4-5 years of contract, or or or...

What you sure as hell don't expect, is that he'll reach a World Class peak and sustain that peak for over 10 years. Staying injury free and showing loyalty to him team in the process. The chances for that are akin to landing a EuroMillions ticket.

Yeah, someone else pointed out similar. What happened the rest of his career can only be viewed in hindsight at this point, as you suggest. I guess he was a relatively late bloomer.

 

[Boondog]

Antony is going to be just fine. He needs to work on aspects of his game that have been weak, but he is a talented dribbler and also can generate crosses but we need a striker to bring that out. Crosses with his left foot are excellent, on the interior moves. It's the right foot he has to perfect so he can open up that space beyond the defender and be more aggressive.

It is very hard to find players with his gifts in dribbling and ball retention. Let ten Hag work with him and push him the right way to maximize his enormous talent and I have to think great days are ahead.

Also and btw I love his passion. He has the potential to be an all-time great for this badge he just needs to keep working and developing.

 

[Jeffthered]

Antony is going to be just fine. He needs to work on aspects of his game that have been weak, but he is a talented dribbler and also can generate crosses but we need a striker to bring that out. Crosses with his left foot are excellent, on the interior moves. It's the right foot he has to perfect so he can open up that space beyond the defender and be more aggressive.

It is very hard to find players with his gifts in dribbling and ball retention. Let ten Hag work with him and push him the right way to maximize his enormous talent and I have to think great days are ahead.

Also and btw I love his passion. He has the potential to be an all-time great for this badge he just needs to keep working and developing.

Exactly. And unfortunately I have seen little to suggest anything more than fine.

Compare Antony with say, Riyad Mahrez at Leicester. They are different levels. Compare him to Saka who is a similar age.

Antony, in my opinion, needs some humility, and needs to learn how to play the game. His game is fast becoming one-dimensional (as many similar players are in fact... Grealish, Sancho, Martial..)

Players cannot just keep cutting inside and expect to develop their game.

 

[Marwood]

I don’t see that at all with Antony in terms of physical qualities.. He may be very quick from stop to start over five yards but he is slow over the next 15-20 yards. He is constantly beating defenders then having that same defender easily catch him again and either push him off the ball or reroute him backwards.

That ability to beat the man initially looks great on highlight videos but is ultimately not that valuable unless you actually do something with the advantage you gain.

The defender catching up with him I don't think is down to pace.

It's down to Antony stopping to cut inside. Like its programmed into him. If he just carried on after beating his man he'd be away.

 

[RedStarUnited]

The defender catching up with him I don't think is down to pace.

It's down to Antony stopping to cut inside. Like its programmed into him. If he just carried on after beating his man he'd be away.

I agree with this. He is too concerned with beating player instead of the next phase.

He is a lot quicker than Mahrez is/was the difference being that by the time we knew of Mahrez he was 25 and had already added goals and assists to his game.

 

[Bondi77]

Sorry bud, wasn’t actually aimed at you and wasn’t being serious! A poster (or posters?) was going on about how all Antony did was score tap ins - this was criticising him after his first 3-4 appearances when he had 2-3 goals against quality opposition as well. This place is mad sometimes.

Did the poster (posters) say they were all tap ins or just the one against Arsenal?

 

[Boondog]

Exactly. And unfortunately I have seen little to suggest anything more than fine.

Compare Antony with say, Riyad Mahrez at Leicester. They are different levels. Compare him to Saka who is a similar age.

Antony, in my opinion, needs some humility, and needs to learn how to play the game. His game is fast becoming one-dimensional (as many similar players are in fact... Grealish, Sancho, Martial..)

Players cannot just keep cutting inside and expect to develop their game.

The good thing here is that Ten Hag knows all that and will work on it with him. He prioritized the player for a reason and it wasn't to see him cut inside and shoot at the far post every time. I am confident there is a plan and with his talent he is going to do very well with us.

 

[Giggsyking]

 

[Giggsyking]

 

[kundalini]

Until his late shot saved after a decent run, that was a shocking substitute appearance. Wasted one counter with an awful pass to Fernandes, lost possession several times and got booked for a wild kick at a Burnley player with the ball nowhere near.

 

[Floyd]

Yeah that was crap.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Jury still well and truly out on Antony. Think he's been fairly disappointing for us so far.

You can see him bagging himself some goals for us because he's so direct but I genuinely thought he would create far more than he does. Still doesn't have an assist to his name for us yet which is concerning.

Obviously will reserve full judgement until next season but so far I'm not overly impressed for 84m.

 

[Luka Mora]

Could have got someone much better with that 100 million. Antony ranges from solid to decent and I never felt comfortable with the idea of spending that kind of money on a decent to solid player

 

[arthurka]

Give the fella a chance. He has been here less than a year. Give him a break.

 

[Mr PG]

Here we go with the usual united fan overreactions. Come on man. Van der sar just said the other day that we signed their two best players and that Ajax was reluctant to let Antony go as they felt he had world class potential. Chelsea let Arjen Robben leave in his early 20’s and he wasn’t even as good as Antony then and look what happened…. he was tearing it up for Bayern for many years. If you can’t see Antony’s unbridled talent then you don’t know football.

 

[Luka Mora]

Here we go with the usual united fan overreactions. Come on man. Van der sar just said the other day that we signed their two best players and that Ajax was reluctant to let Antony go as they felt he had world class potential. Chelsea let Arjen Robben leave in his early 20’s and he wasn’t even as good as Antony then and look what happened…. he was tearing it up for Bayern for many years. If you can’t see Antony’s unbridled talent then you don’t know football.

Robben was a beast for chelsea, clearly levels above Antony. Both him and Damien use to terrorise defences week in week out. I can't believe you compared antony to Robben. If it weren't for injuries he'd have won ballor'ds galore

 

[Sylar]

Obviously will reserve full judgement until next season but so far I'm not overly impressed for 84m.

This is fair. I really hope he shines the more he plays.

Really hope we aren't left with him and Sancho at the end of the season with both struggling to take people on as wingers for 200m

 

[El Jefe]

Here we go with the usual united fan overreactions. Come on man. Van der sar just said the other day that we signed their two best players and that Ajax was reluctant to let Antony go as they felt he had world class potential. Chelsea let Arjen Robben leave in his early 20’s and he wasn’t even as good as Antony then and look what happened…. he was tearing it up for Bayern for many years. If you can’t see Antony’s unbridled talent then you don’t know football.

I get the point you're trying to make but Robben when he joined Chelsea was a far far better player than Antony. That version of Robben would be our best attacker by a clear distance.

As many have said the jury is still out on Antony, he's played reasonably well so farbut nowhere near enough to make the claim that someone doesn't know football if they don't particularly rate him that highly.

 

[Ali Dia]

I get the point you're trying to make but Robben when he joined Chelsea was a far far better player than Antony. That version of Robben would be our best attacker by a clear distance.

As many have said the jury is still out on Antony, he's played reasonably well so farbut nowhere near enough to make the claim that someone doesn't know football if they don't particularly rate him that highly.

What an outrageous signing he’d have been for 12 million! Fergie had such
an amazing eye for talent, he’d have lit it up here.

 

[The United]

Here we go with the usual united fan overreactions. Come on man. Van der sar just said the other day that we signed their two best players and that Ajax was reluctant to let Antony go as they felt he had world class potential. Chelsea let Arjen Robben leave in his early 20’s and he wasn’t even as good as Antony then and look what happened…. he was tearing it up for Bayern for many years. If you can’t see Antony’s unbridled talent then you don’t know football.

Just to repeat what others have been saying. Robben was miles ahead of Antony even at that point.

 

[kouroux]

Could have had a brilliant assist if McT didn't feck it up

 

[Real Name]

What's up with all these overreactions about him constantly.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Weird overreactions. That pass to Fernandes was bad, but he's the only player in our squad to have gotten in that position anyway with his dribbling and speed.

Had a good shot on goal which he could have done a bit better for. Thought it was a very promising cameo.

 

[Gordon S]

Decent cameo, looked a bit rusty, still an exciting prospect!

 

[Escobar]

What's up with all these overreactions about him constantly.

People think every player needs to have a top Messi performance. Yes he was not great but the talent is there. He just needs to sync into the team imo

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I find the reactions here a bit surprising, I think it was an ok cameo after coming back from the WC - not amazing, but not bad either. He showed a couple of times why he's so important as our primary outball option, he's so good under pressure with his back to play, and he has flair which he demonstrated a couple of times. Yeah there were a couple of poor passes/choices, but everyone's gonna be a bit rusty as a collective after this weird mid-season break, no one should expect the team to be fluid or firing on all cylinders (especially as we're in the process of a rebuild cycle).

 

[Matt851]

From what I have seen so far I would be happy with him for 30-40m, the amount we paid is ludicrous

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

Here we go with the usual united fan overreactions. Come on man. Van der sar just said the other day that we signed their two best players and that Ajax was reluctant to let Antony go as they felt he had world class potential. Chelsea let Arjen Robben leave in his early 20’s and he wasn’t even as good as Antony then and look what happened…. he was tearing it up for Bayern for many years. If you can’t see Antony’s unbridled talent then you don’t know football.

Robben and Duff were the best winger partnership in the Premiership and they got rid of both of them for the same reason- far too injury prone. But their quality was undeniable.

 

[Red in STL]

Robben and Duff were the best winger partnership in the Premiership and they got rid of both of them for the same reason- far too injury prone. But their quality was undeniable.

I'm pretty sure Giggs and Beckham might disagree with that statement

 

[Oly Francis]

Robben and Duff were the best winger partnership in the Premiership and they got rid of both of them for the same reason- far too injury prone. But their quality was undeniable.

Robben, called the "golden boy" back then, best european under 21 trophee in 2005, PL player of the month, he was way better than Antony at the same age but was just injured far too often.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

I think he hasn't even really got started yet. His first few games were good and he scored nice goals, but he hasn't really even gelled with the team yet. He's only been with us half a season, and he's 22. I've got a lot of time for him, he's obviously got a lot of qualities and huge potential

 

[KirkDuyt]

Here we go with the usual united fan overreactions. Come on man. Van der sar just said the other day that we signed their two best players and that Ajax was reluctant to let Antony go as they felt he had world class potential. Chelsea let Arjen Robben leave in his early 20’s and he wasn’t even as good as Antony then and look what happened…. he was tearing it up for Bayern for many years. If you can’t see Antony’s unbridled talent then you don’t know football.

Wot. 21 year old Robben was on a completely different level than Antony. Already pretty much our country's best player at that age. He was just injured half the time. Him and Duff were amazing at Chelsea. What ever happened to Duff anyway.