[UpWithRivers]

Well, with posts like yours, there's not much more I can do. Go on, make more such amazing analogies for me to laugh at

Maybe you can add that to your resume as well when Google/Apple "scout" you for hiring

This would be better directed at yourself.

So someone tries to make a point on a chat forum which is intended for opinions and debates and all you can do is mock and laugh at them? Sure lets say its the worst analogy in the history of the world. So what? Mocking someone for trying to elicit an explanation is ok?

 

[Jeppers7]

So someone tries to make a point on a chat forum which is intended for opinions and debates and all you can do is mock and laugh at them? Sure lets say its the worst analogy in the history of the world. So what? Mocking someone for trying to elicit an explanation is ok?

Honestly when I read your reply I thought it was directed at you....then I realised you wrote it.

 

[Trex]

And they are just as capable of struggling in such a tight space and having to settle for a throw. I'm trying to add a bit of balance here because Antony is getting criticised even for things he has done well.

He's getting the Pogba treatment, it's not going to stop unless he put in a ballon d'or contending season. Its not his fault Utd and Ajax did a 100m transaction, you'll think a player who put in so much effort to get here plus the effort he put in in-game added to his technical qualities would get a bit more time. You would think fans and pundits (fans especially) would learn that this hyper critical method only makes things worst like it did with Pogba and Maguire but nope they'll carry on.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Honestly when I read your reply I thought it was directed at you....then I realised you wrote it.

How so? I am the one being mocked for making an analogy. How can it be directed at me? Explain it to me.

 

[TheReligion]

£80+million player my a**

An average player, no more than that. Doesn't show anything more. Has slotted into a bang average team perfectly. A few spectacular strikes a season is all I expect.

Depay. Martial. De Maria. Sanchez. It goes on and on. It's ridiculous. Players with over-inflated egos. You think any of these are better, more effective than, say, Jarden Bowen at West Ham?

All Anthony will do is put pressure on ETH.

Anthony and Jarden Bowen

Ballers

 

[pratyush_utd]

Antony has been decent and probably did better than Sancho did in his entire first season. Bought for similar price but with Antony it gets brought up every time.

With Martial back now, Sancho wont even start for next few games. Thats how much better he has been than Sancho.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Can't quote but regarding that video of him carrying the ball 30 yards or so without much support:

Nice work I guess but really highlights some of his limitations. Didn't have the speed to really break away from his man at any point and was easily unbalanced by the physicality used against him. A Saka or a Sterling would've taken those bumps and not been knocked off their course at all thanks to their superior core strength. Bearing in mind this is all vs Cyprus plumbers.

Because we’ve never seen Saka or Sterling fall over, right?

What a ridiculous load of assumptions to jump to based on one tiny bit of evidence.

 

[Dannn411]

As with nearly all modern day wingers, what is stopping him from getting to the next level is the lack of aggression/ killer instinct. He needs to attack his man more and stop waiting for full back help or settling for a sideways or backwards pass. He also needs to attempt much more crosses and more of those shots where he cuts inside and hits it. I don't care if he loses the ball more than others as long as he's attacking and looking to make stuff happen every single time he gets the ball. He's not been signed to have 90% pass accuracy while producing nothing. Wingers at their best are risk takers. There is no reward out wide without risk.

 

[Lyng]

£80+million player my a**

An average player, no more than that. Doesn't show anything more. Has slotted into a bang average team perfectly. A few spectacular strikes a season is all I expect.

Depay. Martial. De Maria. Sanchez. It goes on and on. It's ridiculous. Players with over-inflated egos. You think any of these are better, more effective than, say, Jarden Bowen at West Ham?

All Anthony will do is put pressure on ETH.

No white text? Really?

 

[pascell]

£80+million player my a**

An average player, no more than that. Doesn't show anything more. Has slotted into a bang average team perfectly. A few spectacular strikes a season is all I expect.

Depay. Martial. De Maria. Sanchez. It goes on and on. It's ridiculous. Players with over-inflated egos. You think any of these are better, more effective than, say, Jarden Bowen at West Ham?

All Anthony will do is put pressure on ETH.

Absolute horseshit, can't believe you took time out of your day to express this opinion.

Jarden Bowen, who?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He's not been signed to have 90% pass accuracy while producing nothing. Wingers at their best are risk takers. There is no reward out wide without risk.

He’s played just 2 league games, against Arsenal and City, and scored in both.

“Producing nothing”

This place.

 

[MrEleson]

He’s at least been better than Sancho who’s been a tremendous disappointment

 

[kouroux]

Can't quote but regarding that video of him carrying the ball 30 yards or so without much support:

Nice work I guess but really highlights some of his limitations. Didn't have the speed to really break away from his man at any point and was easily unbalanced by the physicality used against him. A Saka or a Sterling would've taken those bumps and not been knocked off their course at all thanks to their superior core strength. Bearing in mind this is all vs Cyprus plumbers.

Sterling would have dived at the first contact, what are you talking about?

 

[Member 109952]

I’ve liked what he’s shown so far in, let’s face it, a small sample size. Certainly be no means the worst performer in our front line, he is making space for himself well, his passing in often crisp and accurate and he gets back and pressed well. Currently he’s relying on that cut inside and bend it in the corner (and why not? He’s scored a goal like it already and had another well saved last night) but I expect more variation in his game as he progresses with the team and learns the league.

More to come I’d say. I’m not worried. Now Sancho, that’s another matter entirely!

Tbf if you watch a highlight of his assists and goals at Ajax last season, they're almost exclusively all that. Cutting inside and having a shot, or cutting inside and crossing the ball

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Tbf if you watch a highlight of his assists and goals at Ajax last season, they're almost exclusively all that. Cutting inside and having a shot, or cutting inside and crossing the ball

Robben’s entire career highlights look almost exclusively like that.

 

[Trex]

Robben’s entire career highlights look almost exclusively like that.

To be fair he could learn to attack the back post more. He's a younger play though and he's already scoring the harder goal technically. Its more about the will to keep making those runs till its comes to you, he looks like someone with enough fire in his belly though. His numbers will rise that way and he'll be a two edged sword. I think he hasn't nearly fully tapped into his full potential even at his best in Ajax. That's a good thing though.

 

[Oly Francis]

Robben’s entire career highlights look almost exclusively like that.

What are the odds he can master this move as well as Robben did though? Also Robben was much, much more powerful than Antony will ever be

 

[Jeffthered]

Absolute horseshit, can't believe you took time out of your day to express this opinion.

Jarden Bowen, who?

It's a public forum, and who cares whether I spelt Jarrod or Jarden.

There is nothing about his game that suggests Antony will not be (yet) another vastly overrated, vastly overvalued, player for United. The last decade has seen many.

Scholes is right. £100m ? I expect the very best. Why not?

We have become a club where mediocrity is welcomed, given time, explained, at times defended.

Look at Kulusevski at Spurs? Eriksen has made an immediate impact for us. Is that too much to ask of a £100m signing?

Some just want to watch players, yet demand not much at all.

I hope Antony can prove me wrong, but I haven't seen much yet. But he already has his '...he needs a season...' narrative underway.

 

[Remember the geese]

It's a public forum, and who cares whether I spelt Jarrod or Jarden.

There is nothing about his game that suggests Antony will not be (yet) another vastly overrated, vastly overvalued, player for United. The last decade has seen many.

Scholes is right. £100m ? I expect the very best. Why not?

We have become a club where mediocrity is welcomed, given time, explained, at times defended.

Look at Kulusevski at Spurs? Eriksen has made an immediate impact for us. Is that too much to ask of a £100m signing?

Some just want to watch players, yet demand not much at all.

I hope Antony can prove me wrong, but I haven't seen much yet. But he already has his '...he needs a season...' narrative underway.

Awful post.

 

[Raven]

£80+million player my a**

An average player, no more than that. Doesn't show anything more. Has slotted into a bang average team perfectly. A few spectacular strikes a season is all I expect.

Depay. Martial. De Maria. Sanchez. It goes on and on. It's ridiculous. Players with over-inflated egos. You think any of these are better, more effective than, say, Jarrod Bowen at West Ham?

All Anthony will do is put pressure on ETH.

Embarrassing.

 

[Pat Cat]

Because we’ve never seen Saka or Sterling fall over, right?

What a ridiculous load of assumptions to jump to based on one tiny bit of evidence.

Well no it's not really based off just that one clip, shockingly enough I've watched Antony more than once. It's an obvious difference between the 3 players to anyone who's watched them for even a handful of games.

 

[Ish]

Bloody hell. Guy’s scored against Arsenal and a worldie against city, and he’s already labelled a flop/disappointment.

 

[Raven]

So someone tries to make a point on a chat forum which is intended for opinions and debates and all you can do is mock and laugh at them? Sure lets say its the worst analogy in the history of the world. So what? Mocking someone for trying to elicit an explanation is ok?

Jesus Christ, you had a shit take which almost everyone on the forum disagrees with, don't be a baby and start crying over someone calling it what it is.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Jesus Christ, you had a shit take which almost everyone on the forum disagrees with, don't be a baby and start crying over someone calling it what it is.

I dont have a problem with disagreeing with my posts I have a problem with posts like this Jesus weeping and calling me a baby. If thats not being a baby then I dont know what is. Why cant you just say. I disagree and dont get your analogy and here's why...? But nope it has to be all insults and lack of any actual opinion.

 

[MadDogg]

Yes as I said I evaluate based on the price paid because I think its partly the players fault. Say I'm a programmer working for a small company and Google/Apple poaches me and triples my wages. I will be expected to be levels up when I work there. I cant just be average and say 'Oh its not my fault you pay me so much. Im not worth that much.' Same as any other profession. Same as when Ferdinand/Rooney etc walked in. They knew they had to prove they were worth it. If you dont think you are then dont take the job. This nonsense that its not his fault and we should allow players to be a lower standard is nonsense in my opinion. And not just him - Ten Haag and the rest of the staff should be judged as well. You only pay 80 for a young player from the Eredivisie because you think he is very special. So thats what I expect.

There's a huge difference between judging a player against his wage (which is what you describe in your hypothetical situation about being a programmer) and judging a player against his transfer fee. The former is somewhat fair, the latter isn't. It's the club that should be getting judged on the transfer fee, both in relation to it's scouting system choosing the right players and giving suitable feedback, and it's financial department being able to actually pay suitable prices. The player has no say whatsoever about how much the buying club chooses to spend and/or the selling club demands to sell.

 

[appleman]

It's a public forum, and who cares whether I spelt Jarrod or Jarden.

There is nothing about his game that suggests Antony will not be (yet) another vastly overrated, vastly overvalued, player for United. The last decade has seen many.

Scholes is right. £100m ? I expect the very best. Why not?

We have become a club where mediocrity is welcomed, given time, explained, at times defended.

Look at Kulusevski at Spurs? Eriksen has made an immediate impact for us. Is that too much to ask of a £100m signing?

Some just want to watch players, yet demand not much at all.

I hope Antony can prove me wrong, but I haven't seen much yet. But he already has his '...he needs a season...' narrative underway.

Expecting an absolute star at the age of 22 is your mistake. The 100m is probably awful business, but it's also based on sturdy stuff by Ajax, being very late in the window, inflation, but above all based on more than just right now. Furthermore, whether he was bought for 100 million pounds or yen is the Man Utd lead's shit to deal with and if they can afford it within their business plan, than that's all there is to it. The price does nothing about Antony's skills at all, it is simply the cost of getting his contract annulled at Ajax and a new one made at United.

Expecting him to suddenly morph into prime Ronaldinho is on you, you could also expect him to be a big talent bought at a young age, with a lot of hope from the managing staff based on their eagerness to get him into the team. But with his young age you know he'll show inconsistencies and moving from the Eredivisie to the Premier League tends to take some adjustment time. The fact he's already scored 2 in 2 is better than expected from him, and he'll probably lower his ratio when you look back at the end of the season.

You cannot ask him anything. You can ask ETH why he really wanted a young lad on the right wing or why the board agreed to the stubornness, but you cannot expect a kid to be a star within a month. Especially when he already had various moments of impact during the whole adaptation period.

 

[ROFLUTION]

So far he’s been good - but it takes time before he really sets his mark on games. He’s similar involved as Greenwood was and plays it a little safe sometimes even though he has the full package.

Great goal vs City but quite anonymous besides that - but that goes deeper and shows we need some more leaders at the highest level too and coherence in attack. Hopefully Antony can have that presence with times like big leaders ala Robben, Rooney, Van Persie, etc. He’s still young.

 

[UpWithRivers]

There's a huge difference between judging a player against his wage (which is what you describe in your hypothetical situation about being a programmer) and judging a player against his transfer fee. The former is somewhat fair, the latter isn't. It's the club that should be getting judged on the transfer fee, both in relation to it's scouting system choosing the right players and giving suitable feedback, and it's financial department being able to actually pay suitable prices. The player has no say whatsoever about how much the buying club chooses to spend and/or the selling club demands to sell.

ok my analogy was sht. But point still stands. The amount of money spent is an indicator and judgement whether its wages, transfer fee or a pair of socks. Thats how it works. I have yet to see anyone to offer up an example otherwise. Thats why everyone bangs on about how we pay the highet wages and its not worth it. Thats why everyone bangs on about Maguires fee. Thats why they are slating Nunes and saying Haaland was a bargain. Its a facet of every transaction and the foundation of nearly everything. So why am I not allowed to judge Antony as a 80 mill player? Makes no sense.

 

[b82REZ]

ok my analogy was sht. But point still stands. The amount of money spent is an indicator and judgement whether its wages, transfer fee or a pair of socks. Thats how it works. I have yet to see anyone to offer up an example otherwise. Thats why everyone bangs on about how we pay the highet wages and its not worth it. Thats why everyone bangs on about Maguires fee. Thats why they are slating Nunes and saying Haaland was a bargain. Its a facet of every transaction and the foundation of nearly everything. So why am I not allowed to judge Antony as a 80 mill player? Makes no sense.

There are a myriad of variables with any transfer. But the most important one in any transfer, especially one from a different league, is there needs to be some allowance for settling in.

You're seemingly writing Antony off based on a handful of games and not considering any of the variables, even the most obvious one.

Not only that but he has performed well. He has 2 in 2 in the league.

It seems you've set your stall out of he'll never justify his price tag and are looking for any opportunity to discredit him or his performances.

What is it in your mind that is going to justify his price tag? A Balon d'Or in his first season? Top scorer? Most assists?

Rather than immediately jumping on his back and using his transfer fee as some sort of justification for OTT criticism; why not wait for a reasonable period and judge him on his on field performances rather than his transfer fee?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Look at Kulusevski at Spurs? Eriksen has made an immediate impact for us. Is that too much to ask of a £100m signing?

Imagine if he’d played just two league games, one vs. Arsenal and one versus City, and scored two, one an absolute worldie.
That’s the kind of impact I’d expect from a 100m player.

 

[b82REZ]

Imagine if he’d played just two league games, one vs. Arsenal and one versus City, and scored two, one an absolute worldie.
That’s the kind of impact I’d expect from a 100m player.

They were both tap ins, and you know it.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

They were both tap ins, and you know it.

Aye, I just wish he could’ve had an impact like Kulusevski and scored 2 in his first 10 league games, scoring two tap ins in 2 league games doesn’t really count.

 

[b82REZ]

Aye, I just wish he could’ve had an impact like Kulusevski and scored 2 in his first 10 league games, scoring two tap ins in 2 league games doesn’t really count.

Finally, some sense.

We should aspire to be like Spurs.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Look at Kulusevski at Spurs? Eriksen has made an immediate impact for us. Is that too much to ask of a £100m signing?

Yes, because he cost £85m

 

[UpWithRivers]

There are a myriad of variables with any transfer. But the most important one in any transfer, especially one from a different league, is there needs to be some allowance for settling in.

You're seemingly writing Antony off based on a handful of games and not considering any of the variables, even the most obvious one.

Not only that but he has performed well. He has 2 in 2 in the league.

It seems you've set your stall out of he'll never justify his price tag and are looking for any opportunity to discredit him or his performances.

What is it in your mind that is going to justify his price tag? A Balon d'Or in his first season? Top scorer? Most assists?

Rather than immediately jumping on his back and using his transfer fee as some sort of justification for OTT criticism; why not wait for a reasonable period and judge him on his on field performances rather than his transfer fee?

See this is why everyone is having a go. At no point did I say he was sht. Or I wrote him off. Or he doesnt need time. Or anything like that. I said he was doing ok but I expected more. 6/10 I gave him which is ok for first few games but I expect 7/8 out of 10. But as soon as I set expectations higher Im battered to sht. Like you cant even have high expectations anymore.

 

[Stacks]

I’ve liked what he’s shown so far in, let’s face it, a small sample size. Certainly be no means the worst performer in our front line, he is making space for himself well, his passing in often crisp and accurate and he gets back and pressed well. Currently he’s relying on that cut inside and bend it in the corner (and why not? He’s scored a goal like it already and had another well saved last night) but I expect more variation in his game as he progresses with the team and learns the league.

More to come I’d say. I’m not worried. Now Sancho, that’s another matter entirely!

Antony has been decent and probably did better than Sancho did in his entire first season. Bought for similar price but with Antony it gets brought up every time.

With Martial back now, Sancho wont even start for next few games. Thats how much better he has been than Sancho.

He’s at least been better than Sancho who’s been a tremendous disappointment

I'm not sure "better than Sancho" should be the benchmark because Sancho is just but yeah Tony he has been decent and at least tries stuff.

He's getting the Pogba treatment, it's not going to stop unless he put in a ballon d'or contending season. Its not his fault Utd and Ajax did a 100m transaction, you'll think a player who put in so much effort to get here plus the effort he put in in-game added to his technical qualities would get a bit more time. You would think fans and pundits (fans especially) would learn that this hyper critical method only makes things worst like it did with Pogba and Maguire but nope they'll carry on.

It's true he is and it will be the case for all United players going forward and probably rival players. Look at the Nunez thread. Maguire is having a nervous break down

 

[El Jefe]

While some criticism is over the top you have the usual bunch who are blind to even the slightest bit of constructive criticism about a player until said limitations becomes extremely obvious. Making condescending remarks to posters who are clearly making reasonable points.

From watching Antony its absolutely clear he has limitations to his game that raise some question marks. His speed with the ball and unwillingness to directly attack his defender is really frustrating. That isn't writing him off its just a clear observation so far.

He's still settling and he's a yound player so of course there is more to come from him but a winger that doesn't attack his defender when faced 1v1 is extremely weird.

With that said his shooting has been a pleasant surprise, would like to see more of that from him. His linkup play is also really impressive.

 

[b82REZ]

See this is why everyone is having a go. At no point did I say he was sht. Or I wrote him off. Or he doesnt need time. Or anything like that. I said he was doing ok but I expected more. 6/10 I gave him which is ok for first few games but I expect 7/8 out of 10. But as soon as I set expectations higher Im battered to sht. Like you cant even have high expectations anymore.

That's bullshit and you know it.

He's played twice in the league, this shouldn't even be a conversation yet.

Not only that he's been our most promising attacker since he signed.

 

[pratyush_utd]

I'm not sure "better than Sancho" should be the benchmark because Sancho is just but yeah Tony he has been decent and at least tries stuff.

It's true he is and it will be the case for all United players going forward and probably rival players. Look at the Nunez thread. Maguire is having a nervous break down

Its not the benchmark but the vitriol that is being directed at Antony is just astonishing at this moment considering he has been decent and works extremely hard. He has scored 2 goals in 3 games but it seems some here have made up their mind about him. Its like Pogba, even when Pogba finished as our top scorer and top assist player, he received the most abuse online and even at the end of the season by United fans present in the stadium.

Criticism is fine in case of Maguire but even he has been under extremely toxic criticism which I would never approve of. These players dont intentionally play bad and dont deserve being mercilessly ridiculed. In case of Antony, even the criticism doesn't make any sense.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Its not the benchmark but the vitriol that is being directed at Antony is just astonishing at this moment considering he has been decent and works extremely hard. He has scored 2 goals in 3 games but it seems some here have made up their mind about him. Its like Pogba, even when Pogba finished as our top scorer and top assist player, he received the most abuse online and even at the end of the season by United fans present in the stadium.

Criticism is fine in case of Maguire but even he has been under extremely toxic criticism which I would never approve of. These players dont intentionally play bad and dont deserve being mercilessly ridiculed. In case of Antony, even the criticism doesn't make any sense.

The fanbase symbolises the hot-take culture that has invaded football discourse. No nuance, a player is ‘crap’ or ‘great’.