[Poborsky's hair]

You seem to be an expert on this and have spent a considerable amount of your time scouting Antony so I’ll defer to your undoubted expertise on this matter. Tell me, a layman who’s watched his YouTube vids and his first three games, what I’ve missed and what makes him worth even €50m.

Apparently according to your post above I shouldn’t expect him to dribble, his stats don’t suggest he scores a lot, nor does he create at the same level that Sancho did in a stronger league and I’d be stupid to expect that. So what did we get for our money?

There is a reason you have 587 messages as a newbie if I am being honest.

First of all, don't jusdge the player by the pricetag, it's a market situation.

Second of all judge a player after more than 3 and a half appearances, out of which he didn't look out of a place, especially looked very good on his debut when he scored a goal and in bits in other games where we didn't honestly showed even half the potential as a team.

Third of all: know the player skillset. For that you need to shift your brain speed into another level I believe not to think that as a winger he just needs to go by past players. That's only one way to play football and you need opportunities to do that, he didn't get even enough balls to show that, players omitting him or not picking for starters.

Fourth: Don't judge player based on statistics, they don't tell the whole story. Things like runs behind, pressing from front are as important as beating a defender in one or two situations, while you can make three, four times more presses, runs to make space for your teammates and win the ball in importants parts of the pitch, resulting in great chances. there are pre assists, ball retention, interplay, other bits of play where heexcells.

Look at Iniesta stats as an attacking midfielder and tell me how shit he was a not a 200m player.

Seems like you are for a rough time with him, if he doesn't turn out to be a generational 1V1 player like prime Neymar or other 2,3 players in the world right now who are consistent at that.. Football is very complex not a FIFA or YT highlight reel.

 

[kundalini]

Everything goes through the left simply because Martinez and Eriksen are much more progressive on the ball than Varane and McTominay. Makes it hard for right-sided winger to get any involvement.

Whoscored have Sancho having 49 touches (by which they mean times he had possession, not actual touches), while Antony had 49 touches.

With Dalot in the team, it is no longer the case that everything goes through the left.

Antony simply isn't doing that much with the ball when he has it, though a better understanding with team-mates might help him get into more dangerous positions from time to time. It felt like Ronaldo dropping deep wasn't helping the team. Be interesting to see how he performs with Martial as the central striker.

 

[VidaRed]

He doesn't appear to have pace.

 

[redcucumber]

The lad is still feeling his way into things. Surely people have learnt from Sancho that it's pointless to expect immediate results? Antony has had about 3 games, one of which he scored in!!

 

[Oly Francis]

He's more direct and aggressive version of Sancho if anything, so yeah set the right expectations.

Except Antony is yet to have even half of the seasons Sancho had when he was 18 or 19. He was a beast back then, very special player.

 

[BuzzKillington]

There is a reason you have 587 messages as a newbie if I am being honest.

First of all, don't jusdge the player by the pricetag, it's a market situation.

Second of all judge a player after more than 3 and a half appearances, out of which he didn't look out of a place, especially looked very good on his debut when he scored a goal and in bits in other games where we didn't honestly showed even half the potential as a team.

Third of all: know the player skillset. For that you need to shift your brain speed into another level I believe not to think that as a winger he just needs to go by past players. That's only one way to play football and you need opportunities to do that, he didn't get even enough balls to show that, players omitting him or not picking for starters.

Fourth: Don't judge player based on statistics, they don't tell the whole story. Things like runs behind, pressing from front are as important as beating a defender in one or two situations, while you can make three, four times more presses, runs to make space for your teammates and win the ball in importants parts of the pitch, resulting in great chances. there are pre assists, ball retention, interplay, other bits of play where heexcells.

Look at Iniesta stats as an attacking midfielder and tell me how shit he was a not a 200m player.

Seems like you are for a rough time with him, if he doesn't turn out to be a generational 1V1 player like prime Neymar or other 2,3 players in the world right now who are consistent at that.. Football is very complex not a FIFA or YT highlight reel.

Well technically this is my second time through the caf. I binned my first (full member) account as I got sick or arguing with idiots over stuff that didn’t matter. Reading your post makes me think I may have been right the first time, but hey ho here we are.

1. Rubbish. You absolutely don’t discard the fact we paid €100m.

2. Fair enough and I even alluded to this in my earlier post.

3. This is one of my issues, his skill set was described as tricky winger. Not wide playmaker. Sanchos performances for Dortmund and his stats indicated he was that, Antony’s don’t.

4. if you’re going to ignore stats the player needs to pas the eye test. He doesn’t at the moment, maybe he will in the future, we’ll see on that score and I hope he proves me wrong. Seeing a great player play for United is more important than winning an argument with an anonymous someone on the internet.

Iniestes passed the eye test and all of his other stats other than G+A were through the roof. Antony’s aren’t, don’t compare the two.

Final point, it is perfectly reasonable to expect him to become one of the best players in the world. What the actual feck are you talking about. He’s one of the most expensive players of all time. He’s not Dan James and we didn’t spend £15m on him.

 

[Solius]

Well technically this is my second time through the caf. I binned my first (full member) account as I got sick or arguing with idiots over stuff that didn’t matter. Reading your post makes me think I may have been right the first time, but hey ho here we are.

1. Rubbish. You absolutely don’t discard the fact we paid €100m.

2. Fair enough and I even alluded to this in my earlier post.

3. This is one of my issues, his skill set was described as tricky winger. Not wide playmaker. Sanchos performances for Dortmund and his stats indicated he was that, Antony’s don’t.

4. if you’re going to ignore stats the player needs to pas the eye test. He doesn’t at the moment, maybe he will in the future, we’ll see on that score and I hope he proves me wrong. Seeing a great player play for United is more important than winning an argument with an anonymous someone on the internet.

Iniestes passed the eye test and all of his other stats other than G+A were through the roof. Antony’s aren’t, don’t compare the two.

Final point, it is perfectly reasonable to expect him to become one of the best players in the world. What the actual feck are you talking about. He’s one of the most expensive players of all time. He’s not Dan James and we didn’t spend £15m on him.

What’s the other account?

 

[pocco]

Not for big signings, he cost 80m.

Nobody is saying he is shite but it should be ok to critique his performances (yes even this early) without the top reds getting their knickers in a twist.

I thought he did fine today. Nothing more nothing less. Would like to see a bit more x factor for such a massive fee but hopefully that is all to come.

I don't look at it in black and white. He's still a young footballer, inexperienced at this level and with the weight of his price tag on his shoulders also. As a human being, it's only normal that it will take him time. What I will say is that he's trying, he's not wilting under the pressure. I don't think he's been bad at all, tidy on the ball, working hard. Nothing that concerns me, although I do see what is needed to take him up a level or two.

 

[pocco]

They were mostly bargains and did not cost club records. He is damn near out most expensive player. In any club in history they would expect immediate impact. Even Reyes got criticised due to his cost.

See my above post. It's not his fault Ajax demanded so much and we paid it. If Ronaldo cost £100m from Sporting, his trajectory would have been the exact same. It took him a good two or three years to get going. Price tag is irrelevant unless the player is visibly struggling with the pressure and I don't think that's the case.

 

[Top]

He needs to stop trapping the ball with sole whenever he receives it - it slows down play and allows the defenders to get close to him.

I am a bit worried.

 

[TheNewEra]

He doesn't appear to have pace.

He was as fast as Sadio Mane last year in the CL. He's fast if he has space.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Why would you come back to the caf if you don't like arguing with idiots about stuff that doesn't matter?!

 

[Pickle85]

Early days but I have to say I'm a little concerned.

 

[Frank Grimes]

I don't look at it in black and white. He's still a young footballer, inexperienced at this level and with the weight of his price tag on his shoulders also. As a human being, it's only normal that it will take him time. What I will say is that he's trying, he's not wilting under the pressure. I don't think he's been bad at all, tidy on the ball, working hard. Nothing that concerns me, although I do see what is needed to take him up a level or two.

Was only contesting your assertion that every player got given a year before judgement back in the day. I don't remember it like this

 

[Luka Mora]

Well technically this is my second time through the caf. I binned my first (full member) account as I got sick or arguing with idiots over stuff that didn’t matter. Reading your post makes me think I may have been right the first time, but hey ho here we are.

1. Rubbish. You absolutely don’t discard the fact we paid €100m.

2. Fair enough and I even alluded to this in my earlier post.

3. This is one of my issues, his skill set was described as tricky winger. Not wide playmaker. Sanchos performances for Dortmund and his stats indicated he was that, Antony’s don’t.

4. if you’re going to ignore stats the player needs to pas the eye test. He doesn’t at the moment, maybe he will in the future, we’ll see on that score and I hope he proves me wrong. Seeing a great player play for United is more important than winning an argument with an anonymous someone on the internet.

Iniestes passed the eye test and all of his other stats other than G+A were through the roof. Antony’s aren’t, don’t compare the two.

Final point, it is perfectly reasonable to expect him to become one of the best players in the world. What the actual feck are you talking about. He’s one of the most expensive players of all time. He’s not Dan James and we didn’t spend £15m on him.

I agree with you, I had big reservations about us signing him, as I actually watched him several times last season for Ajax and didn't feel he was a must buy for us, while many who never heard or seen what he even looks like before we were linked with Ten Hag, were seeing after some yt highlights, were making judgements screaming that we need him. No we did not need him, but now he's here he can be an asset and we should be patient and look forward to seeing what he can bring to the table for the team, even if he doesn't end up turning into a world beater, he could still turn out to be a very instrumental part of the time, and it's no point wlling for him to fail just to be proven right.

Now he's here, I think he has the potential to become a better player than what he's displayed so far in the Eredivisie. I don't think he'll ever be worth a 100 million pound player, but he has the potential to be someone like Valencia a key consistent high level performer with a hint of Nani flair, if he adapts and brings the best attributes to his game and develops further. Which is tenacity, consistently whipping in great crosses, working hard for the team with moments of flair, trickery to get the crowd going. The key thing for me, is that he brings confidence, mentality and work ethic along with talent that is yet to be fully unlocked.

At the moment it's far too early to judge, and call him a failure or complain that we've overspent, as what is done is done, there's still a lot of time to be proven wrong. 3 games is not enough sample size to say whether not we got close to our moneys worth or not.

 

[The United]

Adrdesing the right position at a time when it needs to be addresed is also the ability or efficiency of being able to perform as a team quickly enough to be competitive, to get to the CL and win silverware, money is relative.

That is why we evaluate the player and his performance for what we paid him, expecting to get that level.

As I said, he shows nothing special to get to that level yet.

 

[city-puma]

During his transfer, I claimed several times that he will be annoying to watch more often than not initially. But, his huge potential is easy to see. I feel he has ceiling higher than Nani.
so, guys, just forget about his price tag, give him time. I think it more than likely he will develop properly here under ETH.

 

[TheNewEra]

During his transfer, I claimed several times that he will be annoying to watch more often than not initially. But, his huge potential is easy to see. I feel he has ceiling higher than Nani.
so, guys, just forget about his price tag, give him time. I think it more than likely he will develop properly here under ETH.

100%

 

[Adam-Utd]

why are people saying they are worried? he’s in the bedding in period and playing fine.

Clearly he’s a bit star struck, that’s normal he’s a young man.

His passing is excellent, he’s working very hard, just needs to feel more confident to take people on and use his full repertoire. That might take a bit of time.

He should have had another assist for Sancho with the goal cleared of the line, so the numbers are coming.

 

[TwoSheds]

I'd like to see him take a chance and dribble a lot more. I miss having tricksy, direct wingers. Hopefully he's not just Sancho-lite.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Playing so much within himself, I get why some are worried.

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

Jesus it’s been 3 games. Panic doesn’t totally surprise me given we saw relegation threads after our first two defeats

 

[Waynne]

What's going on? Its only been 3 games

 

[Member 105568]

Playing so much within himself, I get why some are worried.

As in you think they should be worried? Or you understand it but think he’ll prove them wrong?

- He looks fine to me. Overpriced, definitely, but he’ll be a good player if there’s a good centre forward.

 

[Gazza]

Well technically this is my second time through the caf. I binned my first (full member) account as I got sick or arguing with idiots over stuff that didn’t matter. Reading your post makes me think I may have been right the first time, but hey ho here we are.

1. Rubbish. You absolutely don’t discard the fact we paid €100m.

2. Fair enough and I even alluded to this in my earlier post.

3. This is one of my issues, his skill set was described as tricky winger. Not wide playmaker. Sanchos performances for Dortmund and his stats indicated he was that, Antony’s don’t.

4. if you’re going to ignore stats the player needs to pas the eye test. He doesn’t at the moment, maybe he will in the future, we’ll see on that score and I hope he proves me wrong. Seeing a great player play for United is more important than winning an argument with an anonymous someone on the internet.

Iniestes passed the eye test and all of his other stats other than G+A were through the roof. Antony’s aren’t, don’t compare the two.

Final point, it is perfectly reasonable to expect him to become one of the best players in the world. What the actual feck are you talking about. He’s one of the most expensive players of all time. He’s not Dan James and we didn’t spend £15m on him.

What’s the other account?

I’m not telling you.

 

[DickDastardly]

Expecting him to show anything partnered with Ronaldo is just stupid.

He's obviously starstruck with old Ronny as he was basically looking for him every time he got on the ball.

And Ronaldo was just pure garbage today.
A better ball from him and Antony gets on the scoresheet.

Play him with a proper CF and you'll see.

 

[CSMUFC90]

Don’t get the panic after 3 games in, I actually like what I see, once he’s up to speed and becomes more assured of himself I think we’ll see the best of him, didn’t do anything special tonight but played some nice passes inside, can’t wait too see a front 3 of Antony/sancho/martial/rashford

 

[sillwuka]

My biggest apprehension with Antony was his 1 on 1 ability, I knew we weren't signing a player like Dembele, Mahrez who would drive past players.

I really hope he adapts to the league.

 

[The Purley King]

Hopefully not going all klopp on this but that pitch tonight was horrible.
Not the best surface to dribble on.
He has a great attitude and works hard and he’s clearly got some skill.
If he’s still fairly underwhelming in February then that would be more of a concern.

 

[MrEleson]

See my above post. It's not his fault Ajax demanded so much and we paid it. If Ronaldo cost £100m from Sporting, his trajectory would have been the exact same. It took him a good two or three years to get going. Price tag is irrelevant unless the player is visibly struggling with the pressure and I don't think that's the case.

Not really comparable to Ronaldo who was 18 when he joined.

By the time he was Anthony’s age, he was already the best player in the world. Anthony will eventually come good, but any comparison with young Ronaldo is futile as every player will lose out.

 

[RC89]

Antony certainly does need to get more involved but what's become clear is that despite him receiving the ball, he has few options to choose from. Sancho often has players around him, Antony doesn't seem to.

 

[TheNewEra]

Not really comparable to Ronaldo who was 18 when he joined.

By the time he was Anthony’s age, he was already the best player in the world. Anthony will eventually come good, but any comparison with young Ronaldo is futile as every player will lose out.

Ronaldo also came into a team with Scholes, Giggs, Butt, Neville, Ferdinand, Keane, RVN that helped guide him

 

[OrcaFat]

Hopefully not going all klopp on this but that pitch tonight was horrible.
Not the best surface to dribble on.
He has a great attitude and works hard and he’s clearly got some skill.
If he’s still fairly underwhelming in February then that would be more of a concern.

Yes. He will surely get quite a bit better. How much better? Time will tell, a few months minimum before we get a fair indication. For now, plenty of reason for optimism.

 

[jesperjaap]

Think people saying ignore the price tags not right. Of course you expect more from an £80m player than you do from one that cost £10m, that is what prices are meant to represent...not the players fault, but of coruse it comes into consideration.

Also, why are people judging him and being worried about him after 2/3 games? I wonder if some of these posters are amongst those that jumped on the Souness/Carragher band wagon and literally wrote Martinez off after his debut as a useless midget.

Personally finding it interesting watching these new players as unlike most seasons sumemr signings, I knew literally nothing of Antony, Martinez or Malacia until the summer, so watching them with no preconceptions.

Its way way too early to judge whether any of them are top signings yet, think that needs a good season or 18months.

None have been perfect so far, all have made errors and I am not super hyped or concerned about any of them so far, not really judging them on there performances more if I see a proper player in there and been satisfied in that respect so far.

I think Malacia has settled in incredeibly quickly and showed a great desire in his game but people have got carried awaay with him, he looks almost a little over enthusiastic so far. Has a chance to develop into a really good full back and been consistently decent and was excellent on hsi debut but its too early to write off Shaw at the moment

Martinez I think bar the awful penalty decision has got away with things a fair few times where he may hav eended up in trouble and is also maybe a little over enthusiastic so far. But I have really liked the potential in him so far and that included the Brighton game even where I thought he had a reasonable debut and got pilloried for losign a head he wasnt ever majorly meant to win. The determination and communication with team mates looks excellent, looks unlike a few have been wrongly labelled the last few years to be a centre back who is genuinely good on the ball and seems to read the game well. Think he really could be a very important player here but he does need to calm things down a little.

As for Antony, its been a little dissapointing that he hasnt got involved enough in his apperances, and it is a huge fee but I dont get the slating of him already? What has he done wrong? Scored on his debut, his pressing has been really good as has his tracking back generally. Has been a fe nice touches and the times he has got involved, yes its been a little inconsistent so far which can only be expected but his vision and apparent wantign to play incisive balls forward with a good tempo looks promising.

Whether he makes it or flops here is another thing altogether. Lets be honest, the pundits saying about Sancho sholdnt have been dropped from ENgland squad as played well thsi season...has he yet? He has scored a couple of really good goals, made a couple of good runs and a few incisive passes, but for such a high fee, we should be startin gto expect more consistently within a game from him now....again of couse the fee is a consideration, as it will be with Antony, but after 2/3 games where he has been ok...madness

 

[Dominos]

I'm not really seeing the Nani comparisons so far. The issue you can often have with the flair type wingers like Nani is they're prone to giving the ball away cheaply and losing possession a lot.

I'm not really seeing that with Anthony, he's assured in possession and a good passer. On the flip side, he strikes me as a bit passive and not taking enough risks to go effect the game. The other problem we have is Sancho seems to fit that description too, there's very little willingness to take risk 1v1 and to drive into the opposition box, get crosses in and get shots away.

I do think wide players overcomplicate things a little in the sense that even if they're not the true elite when it comes to 1v1, they're definitely capable of buying themselves half a yard to get a cross in with a quick change of direction. There's too much slowing things down when they receive the ball, passing back and recycling possession.

 

[pocco]

Was only contesting your assertion that every player got given a year before judgement back in the day. I don't remember it like this

Unless they were a proven top class player, as I said. Which in that day were the only players commanding such a high fee. Antony falls into the bracket of being relatively young and unproven but with a lot of potential. Those players were always afforded time, Fergie used to push this message all the time and most of us trusted him.

 

[croadyman]

Just frustrating our dithering put this price on his head and now it's hanging around the neck

 

[pocco]

Not really comparable to Ronaldo who was 18 when he joined.

By the time he was Anthony’s age, he was already the best player in the world. Anthony will eventually come good, but any comparison with young Ronaldo is futile as every player will lose out.

Yeah we all know good Ronaldo was, you honestly don't need to try to push your agenda with me. I don't know if you're just a kid that's just discovered how good Ronaldo was and now feel like you need to 'educate' us on something we all know full well ourselves, or if you're some cringeworthy middle aged bloke that feels like he has to jump to his defence at every opportunity? Either way, I'm not interested in hearing your crap.

But, you've completely missed the point. Just to explain it again to you, Ronaldo could have cost us £100m and he would have still needed the time and experience at this level to become the player he was. Antony needs the time and experience at this level to become the player he can be. Price tag should be irrelevant if you want to nurture a players potential. If you pile too much pressure on before they're ready to live up to that price tag then you'll never reap the rewards. These are just human beings afterall.

 

[calodo2003]

Need threadmarks in here.

 

[pocco]

Think people saying ignore the price tags not right. Of course you expect more from an £80m player than you do from one that cost £10m, that is what prices are meant to represent...not the players fault, but of coruse it comes into consideration.

I'm saying it because we paid the money for potential, not finished product. That should be obvious to anybody. So why judge him on price tag right now unless you're desperate for him to fail or to blame ETH/Murtough etc? It just seem stupid to me.

Like I said, if we'd paid £100m for many players over the years, we'd have called them a flop in their first season. Ronaldo being an example, if we'd paid big money for his potential, which in this day we 100% would have had to do. You'd all be saying he's shit in his first season, but give it another 12 months or so, suddenly he's with £100m+. That's what happens when you buy players based on potential and what they can be.

If it was a 25+ year old winger that had done it at the top level, fair enough they will be judged. It just seems pointless to judge Antony straight away on his price tag. There's not many (any?) that have lived up to that sort of valuation, what chance does a young player have that has only played in Eredivise and the Brazilian league? Leave that sort of scrutiny to opposition fans that will look to tear our players down as quickly as possible, not our own supporters who should know first hand how talent is turned into top class players with time.