[Borys]

But your groundbreaking analysis of Antony's goals and assists only being a purple patch is not influenced by a lot of factors? I'm guessing the "statistical wizard" thing is a joke.

Regarding beating his man and using his right foot, two Ajax fans on here said that he has those capabilities in his tool box but that he is probably playing it safe and using his strengths, but that with time he is likely to exhibit more than what he has shown thus far.

You've thrown a link to a list of stats and didn't make any point.
I presented an argument with data - if there's something you disagree with, please point it out. Now your post looks childish.

On the bolded part - if that makes you feel comfortable about Antony and his right foot, good for you.

I don't know why you're getting so upset to be honest, I didn't mean to attack you just don't get what you're trying to say because there's no specific conclusion.

 

[youngrell]

I have liked him coming in-field a bit more in recent games, he seems quite comfortable there but I would like to see him start to make the type of run in behind that Bruno made late in the game last night. He seems quite fast off the ball so he can certainly do it.

 

[Mike Smalling]

He should aim to get more involved in the combination play around the edge of the box, and spend less time out wide trying to beat a full-back, because that's just not happening at the moment. But with his burst of pace, close control and good vision he can create a lot of danger, when he moves more centrally. He's a bit different than expected, but I think he seems to be improving and will turn out to be an asset. Maybe not a 90m player, but the price is in the past.

 

[#07]

I have liked him coming in-field a bit more in recent games, he seems quite comfortable there but I would like to see him start to make the type of run in behind that Bruno made late in the game last night. He seems quite fast off the ball so he can certainly do it.

100%. It should bruise his pride that Bruno, who isn't really a wide right, offers more penetration in that position.

I would also like to see the Antony floated cross to the far post more. He used to aim for Haller's head at Ajax. Feels odd that he doesn't even try to service a man mountain like Weghorst.

Our centre forward shouldn't have to wait for Casemiro to go forward to get balls to attack in the box.

 

[CallyRed]

Im going to give him until the end of his contract to prove himself

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Im going to give him until the end of his contract to prove himself

Pressure is really on him now then

 

[Utd heap]

Im going to give him until the end of his contract to prove himself

Thank you mate

 

[Red00012]

He’s improving I feel because there are coaches at the club that can do their job

 

[Adam-Utd]

He actually went past the fullback a few times last night. The issue is he stops himself and cuts back onto his left every time.

He needs to practice getting to the byline and crossing on his right to make him more of a complete threat. I'm sure they'll be working on that, but it's hard to change muscle memory.

He's playing fine at the moment, his passing is improving too. People just need to be patient and stop getting so worked up.

Nearly scored an absolute screamer on that half volley, would have been nice.

 

[Shinjch]

There seems to be a bit of a narrative in place with him already, which can be very hard to shift.

I think he has played better the last few games and been more of a threat.

 

[justboy68]

Just adding a right foot cross from the byline will do wonders for him. Even if it's just a Valencia style low drilled cross. It would at least give him another option. I'm sure he can boot a ball low and hard with his right, just needs to get the habit of it.

 

[We need an rvn]

Frankly not sure what ETH saw in him worth that amount of money. He looks like a 30m player.

I agree he isn't worth £82m (£30 is a bit cheap), but then neither is Mudryk worth £90m (8 caps for Ukraine, 0 goals and 29 appearances for Shaktar 9 goals), nor Enzo Fernandez worth £106m (€10m in June 22, 17 appearances later and 1 goal at Benfica and 10 caps for Argentina).

In fact, when you look at Antony vs the two players above with similar fees, Antony with 2 Ere Divisie titles with Ajax, 57 appearances, 18 goals, 11 appearances with United and 3 goals and 15 caps for Brazil with 2 goals) it's the going rate for inflated fess.

The managers and players don't chose the fee, that's for idiot owners who want a player and smart selling clubs to decide.

I still think he has more than enough potential to get 10+ goals & 10+ assists per season over the next season or two if he keeps working hard, putting on a bit of muscle and burst of pace etc.

On a side note if you look at the top 10 transfer fees of all time, only a handful have come good and most are definitely not worth the fee given plenty of players who have gone for half the price and performed just as good

 

[CallyRed]

Pressure is really on him now then

Players need pressure. After that, I'm done

 

[Stacks]

This gets mentioned a lot about him but that's surely the most backhanded compliment you can give to a winger. We're praising him for standing there?

Thought he was decent today, better signs recently.

1. standing out wide
2. tracking back and harrying
3. keeping the passing simple
4. slowing down play and not rushing or forcing it (can lead to errors)
5. not being afraid to shoot

Those are the most identifiable things you can compliment

 

[podurban2]

You've thrown a link to a list of stats and didn't make any point.
I presented an argument with data - if there's something you disagree with, please point it out. Now your post looks childish.

On the bolded part - if that makes you feel comfortable about Antony and his right foot, good for you.

I don't know why you're getting so upset to be honest, I didn't mean to attack you just don't get what you're trying to say because there's no specific conclusion.

Not really sure why you would think I am upset, just found it funny you think that the statistics that are show Antony in a positive light are "influenced by a lot of factors". In fact, his stats show that he has a lot of creativity - forward passes, touches in opponents third, good in possession, and he's defensive work rate looks pretty good as well on paper.

It is pretty simplistic to only look at xG and xA, and it is surely not how Ten Hag or any top manager will pick a team. They will take a much more holistic approach. Just an example, Bernardo Silva has never had a great output level in terms of goals and assists - or crosses into the box for that matter - and in his 2018/2019 season when City won the league he was voted their player of the year despite being #29 in xG and xA per 90 in the league.

 

[Chief123]

Im going to give him until the end of his contract to prove himself

That’s a relief.

 

[Jeffthered]

He actually went past the fullback a few times last night. The issue is he stops himself and cuts back onto his left every time.

He needs to practice getting to the byline and crossing on his right to make him more of a complete threat. I'm sure they'll be working on that, but it's hard to change muscle memory.

He's playing fine at the moment, his passing is improving too. People just need to be patient and stop getting so worked up.

Nearly scored an absolute screamer on that half volley, would have been nice.

I think our concern is that it could cost us.. forwards failing to create and convert chances, and seeing that we have done so, so, so well to get in this position, I just don't want players to accept 'average' or 'well, he'll be ok.. next season, when he's fit..when he's confident.. when he is this, when he is that....'

We have a number of players who have clearly, clearly stepped up and increased their focus. Antony has to keep up with the progress of the team, because ETH thinks club and team first, rather than individuals. Sometimes I have no idea why he is trying the things he is doing.. he did that ridiculous 360-spin again, what is that about? Good football? It's embarrassing, but he clearly has not learned his lesson. We don't need a 'showboater'.. And he did one trick on the byeline, which looked all dramatic, but the ball went off as he had to stretch to try and keep it in play and make the cross. Why does he think this is good football?

Garnacho I love watching.. v simple, but skillful game... he's more direct and presents more of a danger. I suppose I just don't get Antony, not yet anyway...

 

[Ish]

He reminds me of Coutinho, minus the conversion rate.
Countinho would cut in on the left, curl a shot and despite doing it time and time again, it would work.

Antony on the other had does the same thing minus the goals.

Tbf, at the same age (22) Coutinho wasn't much ahead, if at all. Coutinho's most prolific season (league) was around 13 for Pool at the age of 24. Hopefully Antony can improve and develop over the next year or 2 to match/surpass that.
https://fbref.com/en/players/0ef89a37/Philippe-Coutinho

 

[Ish]

Hopefully he keeps developing and proves a few in here very wrong.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Saka, Foden, Leao, Vinicius, Mudryk - These are all wingers at the similar age of Antony. Lets be honest. He is fkn miles off. Will he be a decent player? Sure. But a level down player. Maybe that's enough? I guess we wait and see.

 

[CallyRed]

That’s a relief.

Can't say I don't back our players. Unlike some on here

 

[Borys]

Not really sure why you would think I am upset, just found it funny you think that the statistics that are show Antony in a positive light are "influenced by a lot of factors". In fact, his stats show that he has a lot of creativity - forward passes, touches in opponents third, good in possession, and he's defensive work rate looks pretty good as well on paper.

You attacked me personally, that's why - for starters. Secondly, number of forward passes, touches, even shots is strongly affected by the whole team setup. But if your point is that Antony is having a better season than Rashford had a year ago, then I agree. It doesn't change anything though. His stats definitely doesn't show "a lot of creativity" by any means.

It is pretty simplistic to only look at xG and xA, and it is surely not how Ten Hag or any top manager will pick a team. They will have a much more holistic approach. Just an example, Bernardo Silva has never had a great output level in terms of goals and assists - or crosses into the box for that matter - and in his 2018/2019 season when City won the league he was voted their player of the year despite being #29 in xG and xA per 90 in the league.

14 G+A isn't bad for a player who spends half of the time in midfield, and I would be very happy if Antony got to that level tbh.
I have big concerns about Antony but I trust ETH he knows what he's doing, if he sees something we don't then Antony will play, he finally has some competition now.

 

[roonster09]

Saka, Foden, Leao, Vinicius, Mudryk - These are all wingers at the similar age of Antony. Lets be honest. He is fkn miles off. Will he be a decent player? Sure. But a level down player. Maybe that's enough? I guess we wait and see.

What exactly has Mudryk done to say he is level above Antony? That one dribble in his debut? Or his CL performance? If it's CL performance then Antony has better CL performance playing for Ajax.

 

[UpWithRivers]

What exactly has Mudryk done to say he is level above Antony? That one dribble in his debut? Or his CL performance? If it's CL performance then Antony has better CL performance playing for Ajax.

Ok fair enough - remove Mudryk from the list. Still think he's a better player but its true he needs to prove it.

 

[roonster09]

Ok fair enough - remove Mudryk from the list. Still think he's a better player but its true he needs to prove it.

\
Ofcourse he should, don't think anyone would argue against that.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Saka, Foden, Leao, Vinicius, Mudryk - These are all wingers at the similar age of Antony. Lets be honest. He is fkn miles off. Will he be a decent player? Sure. But a level down player. Maybe that's enough? I guess we wait and see.

The thing that annoys me about these kind of posts and posters who I am convinced don't actually watch our games properly (or have memories that just reset every season like a goldfish) is we've had, for seemingly forever, 2 RBs the caf thought were awful suddenly get a player who a) knows how to play RW positionally and b) works like a dog off the ball and now both are looking like different players. Our entire team has more balance, teams don't just maraud at will down our right flank anymore and, yes, ETH is a big factor in improving everyone but it's also him signing a player who fits a system and knows how to play a specific role.

Saka until last season was putting up awful numbers but the promise was there, Mudryk we know nothing about let's be honest, Vicinus, Foden, Leao are other wing and so you should compare them to Rashford (and Leao plays in an average league). Saka, Salah, Almiron have had great seasons so far but otherwise which RW has been stellar? Mahrez? 4G, 3A in 15 games is marginally better but in a team that score goals for fun. Kulusevski who everyone raves about has played more games than Antony and has 2G, 5A. Let's see where he is at the end of the season and where we finish in all comps.

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[UpWithRivers]

The thing that annoys me about these kind of posts and posters who I am convinced don't actually watch our games properly (or have memories that just reset every season like a goldfish) is we've had, for seemingly forever, 2 RBs the caf thought were awful suddenly get a player who a) knows how to play RW positionally and b) works like a dog off the ball and now both are looking like different players. Our entire team has more balance, teams don't just maraud at will down our right flank anymore and, yes, ETH is a big factor in improving everyone but it's also him signing a player who fits a system and knows how to play a specific role.

Saka until last season was putting up awful numbers but the promise was there, Mudryk we know nothing about let's be honest, Vicinus, Foden, Leao are other wing and so you should compare them to Rashford (and Leao plays in an average league). Saka, Salah, Almiron have had great seasons so far but otherwise which RW has been stellar? Mahrez? 4G, 3A in 15 games is marginally better but in a team that score goals for fun. Kulusevski who everyone raves about has played more games than Antony and has 2G, 5A. Let's see where he is at the end of the season and where we finish in all comps.

Your only defense of Antony is that he works hard and brings balance to the right side. I totally agree. I can see exactly why Ten Haag likes him. I can also see why Ten Haag likes a player like Wout. They both do a lot of really good things. But are they top class? No. Thats just a fact. If you think Antony is at the level of those other wingers then fair enough. I just dont see it. Will he out work them? Sure. Will he be in better positions tactically? Sure? Is he as gifted - skills, technique, ability etc? Not a fkn chance. If you asked managers to pick one of those wingers I can bet my house Antony will be a last pick.

 

[Chief123]

Joelinton ahead of Rashford who scored a stunning goal in the first leg and got 2 assists in the second leg.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Your only defense of Antony is that he works hard and brings balance to the right side. I totally agree. I can see exactly why Ten Haag likes him. I can also see why Ten Haag likes a player like Wout. They both do a lot of really good things. But are they top class? No. Thats just a fact. If you think Antony is at the level of those other wingers then fair enough. I just dont see it. Will he out work them? Sure. Will he be in better positions tactically? Sure? Is he as gifted - skills, technique, ability etc? Not a fkn chance. If you asked managers to pick one of those wingers I can bet my house Antony will be a last pick.

Not at all, he's clearly got something about him offensively and I've wanted an RW with a left foot for years but work rate and defensive ability is just as important as offensive stats. I think Antony can get a level where we're talking about him as one of the best in the league, probably not the best but in the conversation and if United become dominant (big 'if') I don't see why he can't get to near Robben numbers (averaged 10 goals and 6 assists a season in the BL) and be an important player for us. He won't be as good as Robben in big games or be as consistent for so long but he can definitely match his general output in my mind.

Let's revisit this at the end of the season: Saka, Salah, Almiron, Mahrez, Kulusevski, Antony being our comparable players and assess them properly.

 

[Sea-Cow]

A sweet hit on that volley though. Not much else really.

 

[GreenFieldsGoldenBarley]

I think that, with Antony, we may need to reconsider what makes someone a 100million signing. We're conditioned to feel that a 100million signing should guarantee immediate excitement, and on this metric Antony is clearly failing. It's particularly glaring when we had Greenwood recently, who came through the academy for free and was one of the most exciting and direct players at the club in the last 10 years.

I don't think ten Hag signed Antony expecting him to be like Greenwood, Rashford or Garnacho. We have lots of players in our squad whose first thought is to gun forward and try for a fast counterattack goal. But ten Hag is trying to teach us to play in a slower, more dominant way. In the Brighton and Brentford games at the beginning of the season we were incredibly brittle, and I figure ten Hag realised that he didn't have players able to hold onto the ball up the pitch and bring others into play. Rashford, Ronaldo, Sancho and Bruno all look to release the ball quickly, either in the form of a shot or a cross, and when it doesn't come off the ball comes back at us quick.

So ten Hag needed players up the pitch who are not so direct and willing to slow down play (especially considering Martial's recent injury record), and who he could also trust were willing to put the defensive work in and follow instructions. Just in order to set the groundwork for the way he wanted to play and ensure that his team could dominate games against statistically weaker teams, and not end up under pressure every game. And he needed someone immediately, who he could trust to give him that, ideally who was young with room to develop and who could occasionally chip in with a goal. Hence 100mil for Antony.

And since Antony has come into the team our ability to dominate teams weaker than us has increased so much. And our right wing no longer seems like a weak link. And he gets selected every week. So clearly he's doing what's needed with him, even though his output could clearly be improved.

Just seems like the criticisms about his output compared to his price tag are missing the point of why he was signed.

 

[podurban2]

I think that, with Antony, we may need to reconsider what makes someone a 100million signing. We're conditioned to feel that a 100million signing should guarantee immediate excitement, and on this metric Antony is clearly failing. It's particularly glaring when we had Greenwood recently, who came through the academy for free and was one of the most exciting and direct players at the club in the last 10 years.

I don't think ten Hag signed Antony expecting him to be like Greenwood, Rashford or Garnacho. We have lots of players in our squad whose first thought is to gun forward and try for a fast counterattack goal. But ten Hag is trying to teach us to play in a slower, more dominant way. In the Brighton and Brentford games at the beginning of the season we were incredibly brittle, and I figure ten Hag realised that he didn't have players able to hold onto the ball up the pitch and bring others into play. Rashford, Ronaldo, Sancho and Bruno all look to release the ball quickly, either in the form of a shot or a cross, and when it doesn't come off the ball comes back at us quick.

So ten Hag needed players up the pitch who are not so direct and willing to slow down play (especially considering Martial's recent injury record), and who he could also trust were willing to put the defensive work in and follow instructions. Just in order to set the groundwork for the way he wanted to play and ensure that his team could dominate games against statistically weaker teams, and not end up under pressure every game. And he needed someone immediately, who he could trust to give him that, ideally who was young with room to develop and who could occasionally chip in with a goal. Hence 100mil for Antony.

And since Antony has come into the team our ability to dominate teams weaker than us has increased so much. And our right wing no longer seems like a weak link. And he gets selected every week. So clearly he's doing what's needed with him, even though his output could clearly be improved.

Just seems like the criticisms about his output compared to his price tag are missing the point of why he was signed.

Good post, I agree. And surely how Ten Hag sees it.

 

[Bondi77]

I think that, with Antony, we may need to reconsider what makes someone a 100million signing. We're conditioned to feel that a 100million signing should guarantee immediate excitement, and on this metric Antony is clearly failing. It's particularly glaring when we had Greenwood recently, who came through the academy for free and was one of the most exciting and direct players at the club in the last 10 years.

I don't think ten Hag signed Antony expecting him to be like Greenwood, Rashford or Garnacho. We have lots of players in our squad whose first thought is to gun forward and try for a fast counterattack goal. But ten Hag is trying to teach us to play in a slower, more dominant way. In the Brighton and Brentford games at the beginning of the season we were incredibly brittle, and I figure ten Hag realised that he didn't have players able to hold onto the ball up the pitch and bring others into play. Rashford, Ronaldo, Sancho and Bruno all look to release the ball quickly, either in the form of a shot or a cross, and when it doesn't come off the ball comes back at us quick.

So ten Hag needed players up the pitch who are not so direct and willing to slow down play (especially considering Martial's recent injury record), and who he could also trust were willing to put the defensive work in and follow instructions. Just in order to set the groundwork for the way he wanted to play and ensure that his team could dominate games against statistically weaker teams, and not end up under pressure every game. And he needed someone immediately, who he could trust to give him that, ideally who was young with room to develop and who could occasionally chip in with a goal. Hence 100mil for Antony.

And since Antony has come into the team our ability to dominate teams weaker than us has increased so much. And our right wing no longer seems like a weak link. And he gets selected every week. So clearly he's doing what's needed with him, even though his output could clearly be improved.

Just seems like the criticisms about his output compared to his price tag are missing the point of why he was signed.

Erik has said he needs to be more direct...hasn't he?

 

[pacifictheme]

Erik has said he needs to be more direct...hasn't he?

He has but there is quite a large gap between how direct Antony and some of the others are. Its not one or the other is it.

I think Antony generally has done very well in most aspects but it feels like he is playing within himself a lot, so I understand ten hag saying he wants him to be a bit more direct. Will make him less predictable for one.

 

[sullydnl]

Erik has said he needs to be more direct...hasn't he?

Indeed he did.

But he has also complained more than once this season about us "playing tennis", meaning attacking too quickly only to have the the opposition come back at us quickly too, turning it into a back and forth game. As opposed to slowing things down, moving ourselves up the pitch in a controlled way and parking the opposition in their own half.

In other words what he really wants is for us to be smart enough to know when to do which. But to the poster above's point, we as a team are generally far more geared towards being direct after years of relying on counters as a primary attacking threat. So Antony adds something different in that regard, being used to playing in a more possession-dominant style. Of all the players in our side currently he's quite comfortably the best outball, as in someone you can fire the ball to under pressure and trust that he'll keep it long enough for the rest of the team to move up the pitch.

 

[SoCross]

Antony if you’re reading this, just go on the outside about twice a match and send a cross in, all will be good then with the Caf.

 

[Member 105568]

Antony if you’re reading this, just go on the outside about twice a match and send a cross in, all will be good then with the Caf.

 

[croadyman]

He actually went past the fullback a few times last night. The issue is he stops himself and cuts back onto his left every time.

He needs to practice getting to the byline and crossing on his right to make him more of a complete threat. I'm sure they'll be working on that, but it's hard to change muscle memory.

He's playing fine at the moment, his passing is improving too. People just need to be patient and stop getting so worked up.

Nearly scored an absolute screamer on that half volley, would have been nice.

Yeah was shocked when he went past the defender but then felt a bit flat when he turned back. There has been development but until he has the confidence to do it then those doubts will always resurface

 

[Bondi77]

Indeed he did.

But he has also complained more than once this season about us "playing tennis", meaning attacking too quickly only to have the the opposition come back at us quickly too, turning it into a back and forth game. As opposed to slowing things down, moving ourselves up the pitch in a controlled way and parking the opposition in their own half.

In other words what he really wants is for us to be smart enough to know when to do which. But to the poster above's point, we as a team are generally far more geared towards being direct after years of relying on counters as a primary attacking threat. So Antony adds something different in that regard, being used to playing in a more possession-dominant style. Of all the players in our side currently he's quite comfortably the best outball, as in someone you can fire the ball to under pressure and trust that he'll keep it long enough for the rest of the team to move up the pitch.

He keeps it for longer because he runs wide over to the touchline away from goal and then stops and passes the ball back.
The whole purpose of counter attacking is to move quickly in numbers to outnumber the opposition and Antony stops that by doing what he does currently.