Antonio Valencia

A long time ago now, but Nani with confidence



Play him a lot and we'll have another special player. I appreciate that we dont see this every time he plays, but I do believe that when he's full of confidence like that he's capable of some outstanding individual play which would add a lot to our side. He's still very young.
 
Ekeke said:
A long time ago now, but Nani with confidence



Play him a lot and we'll have another special player. I appreciate that we dont see this every time he plays, but I do believe that when he's full of confidence like that he's capable of some outstanding individual play which would add a lot to our side. He's still very young.
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Oh right. Youtube clips. From a Friendly. Two years ago.

Pretty conclusive I'd say.
 
Nani will never be consistent for us. He'll end up being sold on to a Spanish or Italian team at a big loss.

At best 50% of your transfers don't work out and I said at the time that Anderson was the more likely of the two to make it at United.
 
charleysurf said:
Nani will never be consistent for us. He'll end up being sold on to a Spanish or Italian team at a big loss.

At best 50% of your transfers don't work out and I said at the time that Anderson was the more likely of the two to make it at United.
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You just saying that for the craic or have you seen the future?

:confused:
 
So what happened with Valencia at Villarreal then?

They are no mugs. They usually dont let good players go without a big fee to go with it.
 
charleysurf said:
Nani will never be consistent for us. He'll end up being sold on to a Spanish or Italian team at a big loss.

At best 50% of your transfers don't work out and I said at the time that Anderson was the more likely of the two to make it at United.
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That's not true though, is it? Not under SAF anyway. I would say the vast majority of his signings have been good ones. The bad signings stand out all the more for the relative infrequency they occur.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
They did this time. Obviously.
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And whats the reason for that?

They sent him out on loan to Recreativo for most of his first season in Spain, then on loan to Wigan for a season, then they extended the loan for another season at Wigan before letting him sign outright for Wigan for an undisclosed fee.
 
Ekeke said:
And whats the reason for that?

They sent him out on loan to Recreativo for most of his first season in Spain, then on loan to Wigan for a season, then they extended the loan for another season at Wigan before letting him sign outright for Wigan for an undisclosed fee.
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The fee they paid, and his performances.

You sell an international winger for a few million, and have him become a player worth between £15-20m, all the while putting in quality performances, you know you've dropped the ball a bit.
 
Brwned said:
You just saying that for the craic or have you seen the future?

:confused:
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I've always doubted Nani. I'll dig out my doubting posts from when we bought him if I get a chance. Always hoped he'd prove me a liar, but the way he's gone backwards this season is just confirming my initial fears that he's not got the bottle to be a big player for us.
 
brophs said:
The fee they paid, and his performances.

You sell an international winger for a few million, and have him become a player worth between £15-20m, all the while putting in quality performances, you know you've dropped the ball a bit.
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Not so much when you have Cazorla, a better right winger. But you'd think having both of them would be sensible to cover each other.

Why did Villarreal sell him (for an undisclosed fee) if he was better than Nani last season apparently?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That's not true though, is it? Not under SAF anyway. I would say the vast majority of his signings have been good ones. The bad signings stand out all the more for the relative infrequency they occur.
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Over a lengthy managerial career you would be unlikely to see more than 50%of your buys work out, i.e. being a success at the club for multiple seasons.
Fergies on a good run of purchases at the moment, but he's still had a lot of duff ones at United to balance things out. It's only natural, and Fergies batting average is still way above most managers.
 
Ekeke said:
Why did Villarreal sell him (for an undisclosed fee) if he was better than Nani last season apparently?
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Surely no one's claiming Valencia was better than Nani last season?
It's no secret that I see Nani as my own little charity case, but quite a few people have a tendency to overrate Valencia, and saying that he was better than Nani last season is definitely giving him too much credit in my opinion.
 
Ekeke said:
Not so much when you have Cazorla, a better right winger. But you'd think having both of them would be sensible to cover each other.

Why did Villarreal sell him (for an undisclosed fee) if he was better than Nani last season apparently?
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They sold him because there was an option agreed by Wigan much earlier in the loan for a set price. I have no doubt they would have hiked the price if the could.

I don't know what the second sentence is getting at. Nani wasn't particularly good last season. IMO, Valencia was better. I don't know what Nani's form would have to do with Villareal selling Valencia.
 
Top said:
Surely no one's claiming Valencia was better than Nani last season?
It's no secret that I see Nani as my own little charity case, but quite a few people have a tendency to overrate Valencia, and saying that he was better than Nani last season is definitely giving him too much credit in my opinion.
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Aye, I am, from what I saw of him. I was impressed any time I watched Wigan. The majority of times I watched Nani I wanted to punch him. The only thing keeping me from writing him off is his obvious ability, and the occasional great performance. But being great one game in five or six is feck all use really.
 
Ekeke said:
Not so much when you have Cazorla, a better right winger. But you'd think having both of them would be sensible to cover each other.

Why did Villarreal sell him (for an undisclosed fee) if he was better than Nani last season apparently?
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What the feck has your beloved Villareal (current club of your like most favouritest player ever ever) making a cock-up in the transfer market got to do with Nani? :confused:
 
Pogue Mahone said:
What the feck has Villareal making a cock-up in the transfer market got to do with Nani? :confused:
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They are being compared for the past 2 pages. People comparing their stats last season.

Villarreal wouldnt have been selling a player of Nani's ability. They are keeping a hold of Matias Fernandes who isnt as good, as backup for Pires and Cazorla. If Valencia was so good, I've no idea why they'd let him go. Clearly they felt Fernandes is a better option.
 
brophs said:
Aye, I am, from what I saw of him. I was impressed any time I watched Wigan. The majority of times I watched Nani I wanted to punch him. The only thing keeping me from writing him off is his obvious ability, and the occasional great performance. But being great one game in five or six is feck all use really.
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Nani had a cracker of a first season in my opinion Brophs, which is highlighted by the fact that he made 14 assists - the most of any other player in the team. Compared to Valencia's 3 assists.
Now I know stats don't tell the full story, but when the difference between assists for wingers is that great, then it does tell you something, even if we obviously scored more goals than Wigan.

I was far from impressed every time I watched Valencia last season, and I think the hype surrounding him was unnecessary - a bit like when everyone was raving about Morten Gamst Pedersen despite him not really doing much other than having blinders against United.

Sure, Nani was frustrating at times last season, but I reckon you let this season influence your opinion of his first season. Nani looked like one hell of a purchase last season.
 
Ekeke said:
Not so much when you have Cazorla, a better right winger. But you'd think having both of them would be sensible to cover each other.

Why did Villarreal sell him (for an undisclosed fee) if he was better than Nani last season apparently?
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He's rubbish.

Valencia > Cazorla.

They just made a mistake in selling him, it happens.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
What the feck has your beloved Villareal (current club of your like most favouritest player ever ever) making a cock-up in the transfer market got to do with Nani? :confused:
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You know, David Villa doesnt play for Villarreal. Or is my favourite player Nihat now? :annoyed:
 
Ekeke said:
They are being compared for the past 2 pages. People comparing their stats last season.

Villarreal wouldnt have been selling a player of Nani's ability. They are keeping a hold of Matias Fernandes who isnt as good, as backup for Pires and Cazorla. If Valencia was so good, I've no idea why they'd let him go. Clearly they felt Fernandes is a better option.
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Couldn't give a shit about Villareal's squad to be honest.

Fact is, they dropped a bollock letting Valencia leave for relative peanuts.
 
Nani's a class player, it's harsh to say he has no football brain at all, it's more the decision making. He'll come good with time imo
 
Top said:
Nani had a cracker of a first season in my opinion Brophs, which is highlighted by the fact that he made 14 assists - the most of any other player in the team. Compared to Valencia's 3 assists.
Now I know stats don't tell the full story, but when the difference between assists for wingers is that great, then it does tell you something, even if we obviously scored more goals than Wigan.

I was far from impressed every time I watched Valencia last season, and I think the hype surrounding him was unnecessary - a bit like when everyone was raving about Morten Gamst Pedersen despite him not really doing much other than having blinders against United.

Sure, Nani was frustrating at times last season, but I reckon you let this season influence your opinion of his first season. Nani looked like one hell of a purchase last season.
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It tells you one of the two wingers takes corners and the other doesn't.
 
Brwned said:
He's rubbish.

Valencia > Cazorla.

They just made a mistake in selling him, it happens.
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Cazorla is quite obviously not rubbish, and claiming so is ridiculous. He's a very tidy player, and he does well nearly every time I watch him.
I wouldn't pick Valencia over him, that's for sure.
 
Top said:
Nani had a cracker of a first season in my opinion Brophs, which is highlighted by the fact that he made 14 assists - the most of any other player in the team. Compared to Valencia's 3 assists.
Now I know stats don't tell the full story, but when the difference between assists for wingers is that great, then it does tell you something, even if we obviously scored more goals than Wigan.

I was far from impressed every time I watched Valencia last season, and I think the hype surrounding him was unnecessary - a bit like when everyone was raving about Morten Gamst Pedersen despite him not really doing much other than having blinders against United.

Sure, Nani was frustrating at times last season, but I reckon you let this season influence your opinion of his first season. Nani looked like one hell of a purchase last season.
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I have to admit I thought Pedersen was top class back in 05/06, or maybe it was 06/07?

Scored some absolutely cracking goals, was great at set pieces, whipped in a great cross and was consistently one of their best players for a season.

It went downhill from then on, but he's been getting back to some form this season.
 
Top said:
Cazorla is quite obviously not rubbish, and claiming so is ridiculous. He's a very tidy player, and he does well nearly every time I watch him.
I wouldn't pick Valencia over him, that's for sure.
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Rubbish was a quite obvious exaggeration.

He is a tidy player, keeps it simple and has an eye for a pass but he's not very good.

I'm not one who rates Valencia all that highly, but I much prefer him to Cazorla.
 
Brwned said:
I have to admit I thought Pedersen was top class back in 05/06, or maybe it was 06/07?

Scored some absolutely cracking goals, was great at set pieces, whipped in a great cross and was consistently one of their best players for a season.

It went downhill from then on, but he's been getting back to some form this season.
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I never rated him, Danish Voice can confirm that, I thought he was one of the most overrated players in the league - especially by United fans because of the way he always seemed to raise his level against us.
I feel the same might be happening now with Valencia, albeit on a smaller scale as he has obviously had a good season so far.

I'm not saying Pedersen was poor in said season, but he was far from United quality which many people seemed to think. It all culminated last season with him having an absolute shocker of a season.
 
Brwned said:
Nope, he's alright.

He's a fairly classy player, but he's pretty ineffective too.
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Its not saying much obviously because Real Madrid are idiots, but when they couldnt get Ronaldo this summer, they went in for Cazorla - unable to get him either. They were linked with Valencia recently but clearly they disagreed that Valencia is better than Cazorla.
 
Ekeke said:
Its not saying much obviously because Real Madrid are idiots, but when they couldnt get Ronaldo this summer, they went in for Cazorla - unable to get him either. They were linked with Valencia recently but clearly they disagreed that Valencia is better than Cazorla.
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Eh?

Steve Bruce said he rejected their offer, so Real Madrid were obviously serious about signing him.

And they just signed Faubert, so they really are just idiots.
 
Brwned said:
Eh?

Steve Bruce said he rejected their offer, so Real Madrid were obviously serious about signing him.

And they just signed Faubert, so they really are just idiots.
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Right. This comes 6 months on from when they tried to sign Cazorla as their second choice behind Ronaldo and found they were unable to get him. Which would make Valencia their 3rd choice, no? Faubert was like ...357th choice. Apparently Ramos didnt even know him, he just heard he was available.
 
Top said:
Nani had a cracker of a first season in my opinion Brophs, which is highlighted by the fact that he made 14 assists - the most of any other player in the team. Compared to Valencia's 3 assists.
Now I know stats don't tell the full story, but when the difference between assists for wingers is that great, then it does tell you something, even if we obviously scored more goals than Wigan.

I was far from impressed every time I watched Valencia last season, and I think the hype surrounding him was unnecessary - a bit like when everyone was raving about Morten Gamst Pedersen despite him not really doing much other than having blinders against United.

Sure, Nani was frustrating at times last season, but I reckon you let this season influence your opinion of his first season. Nani looked like one hell of a purchase last season.
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I would say it has as much to do with taking corners(credit Pogue), being in a struggling team rather than English, and European Champions, and the fact that Nani did some of his good work when games were won. And Heskey.

Again, as before, it's not hype that makes me think he's a better player(now, on form), it his performances, and Nani's.

Nah, I said much the same about him last season. he did well at times, sure, but that doesn't cut it here. You can't just turn it on sometimes, particularly with his obvious ability. He has the ability, now he needs to turn those into consistent performances, as Valencia is doing right now, IMO.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Those stats are obviously misleading. Valencia didn't take corners
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Why are those stats misleading? Just because Ronaldo is better at converting chances than Heskey? FFS many teams would be delighted to have a player who can actually cross a decent ball in... recently Giggs has done well with corner kicks, but I still think Nani's better at it.
Nani is 22 now. His debut season was without a shadow of a doubt very good and there is no denying he doesn't play as much as he did last year, nor does he play as good. Still he has age, all the ability of the world and the trust of the greatest manager ever on his side.
He has already managed five goals and three assists so far, if he gets another 3-4 goals and around five assists this will be enough for me - and most likely not only for me, but I bet Fergie will consider this as a decent contribution to our season. Give the lad some time, not everyone is a world beater at the age of 20, 21 or 22. People easily forget that players develop further at a different age and are blinded by players like Ronaldo, Rooney, Fabregas or Messi who have been brilliant from the very beginning of their careers on.
Fergie will sort him out. It will take time, but it will be worth the wait.

On topic I wouldn't mind Valencia around here though. I could see us going for him if Tevez won't be signed. Ronaldo could move upfront alongside Rooney, Berbatov and Welbeck while we would have Park, Nani, Tosic and Valencia as options for the wing positions. Unlikely but not entirely impossible to happen.
 
Ekeke said:
Well is it not a bit unfair to compare being one of Ecuador's best players to being one of Portugal's best players?
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In terms of comparison to his teammates, yes. But in terms of performance versus the opposition there's definitely something to it.
 
Ekeke said:
Right. This comes 6 months on from when they tried to sign Cazorla as their second choice behind Ronaldo and found they were unable to get him. Which would make Valencia their 3rd choice, no? Faubert was like ...357th choice. Apparently Ramos didnt even know him, he just heard he was available.
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Being their third choice doesn't make him a worse player, just less suited to the playing style.
 
Top said:
Nani had a cracker of a first season in my opinion Brophs, which is highlighted by the fact that he made 14 assists - the most of any other player in the team.
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ARRRGH! No, no, no.

For the fiftieth time, he did not lead the club in assists last season. He had 6 in the league, 11 in all competitions, whereas Rooney had 13 in the league alone. Three of Nani's league assists were from corners (against Everton, Sunderland and Liverpool), and one came from drawing a penalty (Sunderland). Stats from Soccernet and the league's official website.
 
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