Antonio Valencia

Ekeke said:
That or maybe he is intending to spend big - hence no funds available now with the summer a much better time to plan things.
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hasnt he lost 80% of his money... 8 billion or whatever in a the financial turmoil...

if id lost 8 billion im not sure my reaction would be to spend more...

i found it interesting that a couple of squad players left chelsea so far this window but nobody came in...

they were outbid for robiniho... and didnt make any massive signings in the summer...

ill be interested to see what happens if drogba goes and if they start trying to get benzema or aguero or if their targets are a little less expensive
 
EZee said:
hasnt he lost 80% of his money... 8 billion or whatever in a the financial turmoil...

if id lost 8 billion im not sure my reaction would be to spend more...

i found it interesting that a couple of squad players left chelsea so far this window but nobody came in...

they were outbid for robiniho... and didnt make any massive signings in the summer...

ill be interested to see what happens if drogba goes and if they start trying to get benzema or aguero or if their targets are a little less expensive
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Shares will eventually go up in value as they have down. His loss is only temporary.
 
BBC reports he rejected Real. Good move, smart lad. Knows he'd play a bit part and than when all their players are fit he'd be wasted on the bench. Gets good playing time here and can bide his time until he'd good enough to start at a better team.
 
Is he what we need?

We've just bought Tosic. I thought what we needed was a Giggs-type replacement (young Giggs) someone who could stretch defences with speed and trickery and also have an eye for a cross and a goal.

This guy seems to have no speed, although he has good close control (but you'd expect that) but does have an eye for a cross and a goal.

It's the speed thing that concerns me. Tosic doesn't have it in abundance - neither does Nani. Ronaldo does, but half a yard slower since his op.

I think that what we need is pace up front and on the wing!

Tx
 
I'm convinced we'll be buying him in the summer, regardless of Park, Nani and Tosic
 
tintedsepia said:
Is he what we need?

We've just bought Tosic. I thought what we needed was a Giggs-type replacement (young Giggs) someone who could stretch defences with speed and trickery and also have an eye for a cross and a goal.

This guy seems to have no speed, although he has good close control (but you'd expect that) but does have an eye for a cross and a goal.

It's the speed thing that concerns me. Tosic doesn't have it in abundance - neither does Nani. Ronaldo does, but half a yard slower since his op.

I think that what we need is pace up front and on the wing!

Tx
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Eh?

Nani's definitely quick, and I've no idea why you seem to think Ronaldo's slower.

Nani has everything you've asked for, an eye for a goal, pace and a good cross on him, more so than Valencia.
 
Brwned said:
Eh?

Nani's definitely quick, and I've no idea why you seem to think Ronaldo's slower.

Nani has everything you've asked for, an eye for a goal, pace and a good cross on him, more so than Valencia.
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Valencia's a better player than Nani right now though. By a margin.

Nani's all about potential, IMO. Sadly not every player goes on to fulfil their potential. I'm still optimistic but SAF will be much better placed to see if it's worth our while to stick with him a while longer or start looking at alternative options.
 
Brwned said:
Eh?

Nani's definitely quick, and I've no idea why you seem to think Ronaldo's slower.

Nani has everything you've asked for, an eye for a goal, pace and a good cross on him, more so than Valencia.
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At what point are we going to be able to say "Nani does those things consistently" instead of "Nani can do them"? Because for my money, he's as far away as he was when he signed. Valencia isn't.

Nani needs to get his attitude right, and work his way back into things. Because as things stand, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get edged out of the first team squad if he keeps playing the way he is.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Valencia's a better player than Nani right now though. By a margin.

Nani's all about potential, IMO. Sadly not every player goes on to fulfil their potential. I'm still optimistic but SAF will be much better placed to see if it's worth our while to stick with him a while longer or start looking at alternative options.
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By a margin?

Nani's a year younger, which more than makes up for any margin of difference here.

This time last year Valencia was a decent winger in the league, but nothing more. That's when he was the same age as Nani is now, so maybe Nani will step it up next season in the same way.

Nani's the more talented of the two, by a distance.
 
brophs said:
At what point are we going to be able to say "Nani does those things consistently" instead of "Nani can do them"? Because for my money, he's as far away as he was when he signed. Valencia isn't.

Nani needs to get his attitude right, and work his way back into things. Because as things stand, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get edged out of the first team squad if he keeps playing the way he is.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Wigan fans were saying the same thing about Valencia last season.
 
Brwned said:
I wouldn't be surprised if Wigan fans were saying the same thing about Valencia last season.
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I would. From what I saw he was good last season. Appreciably better than Nani overall, IMO.
 
brophs said:
I would. From what I saw he was good last season. Appreciably better than Nani overall, IMO.
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You think?

3 goals and 3 assists last season in 31 starts, compared to Nani's 4 goals and 11 assists in 25 starts.

And that's just the stats, in terms of performances Valencia was still very inconsistent and not all that impressive, IMO.

Absolutely no doubt in my mind that if Valencia came here he would be struggling for form like Nani is, and that Nani would be doing just as well if not better if he was at Wigan.
 
Brwned said:
You think?

3 goals and 3 assists last season in 31 starts, compared to Nani's 4 goals and 11 assists in 25 starts.

And that's just the stats, in terms of performances Valencia was still very inconsistent and not all that impressive, IMO.

Absolutely no doubt in my mind that if Valencia came here he would be struggling for form like Nani is, and that Nani would be doing just as well if not better if he was at Wigan.
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Fair points, but Valencia doesn't cut in and shoot almost every time he gets the ball. And no matter how good your passes/crosses are, if you're relying on Emile Heskey to score them, they won't all become assists.

In terms of performances I'd say he was far better than Nani last season. I'm struggling to think of more than 4 or 5 games when Nani really impressed me. Any time I saw Wigan I always thought Valencia had a bit about him.
 
brophs said:
Fair points, but Valencia doesn't cut in and shoot almost every time he gets the ball. And no matter how good your passes/crosses are, if you're relying on Emile Heskey to score them, they won't all become assists.

In terms of performances I'd say he was far better than Nani last season. I'm struggling to think of more than 4 or 5 games when Nani really impressed me. Any time I saw Wigan I always thought Valencia had a bit about him.
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If that was really the case, I find it slightly odd that no-one tried to steal him from under their noses because they left it late before they signed him up permanently.

Spurs were looking for a winger, as were Liverpool, as were Villa.

Spurs ended up going for Bentley, Villa went for Milner and Liverpool went for Riera.

I think it'd be fair to say that everyone here would come to the conclusion that none of those players are good enough for us, and so if each club decided Valencia wasn't as good as any of them, it says quite a lot IMO.
 
Brwned said:
You think?

3 goals and 3 assists last season in 31 starts, compared to Nani's 4 goals and 11 assists in 25 starts.

And that's just the stats, in terms of performances Valencia was still very inconsistent and not all that impressive, IMO.

Absolutely no doubt in my mind that if Valencia came here he would be struggling for form like Nani is, and that Nani would be doing just as well if not better if he was at Wigan.
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Those stats are obviously misleading. Valencia didn't take corners and was trying to tee up the likes of Emile Heskey last season, not Cristiano 42 goals Ronaldo.

Valencia was a more complete player last season than Nani is now. And he's improved again this season. Nani seems to have, if anything, gone backwards.
 
Brwned said:
If that was really the case, I find it slightly odd that no-one tried to steal him from under their noses because they left it late before they signed him up permanently.

Spurs were looking for a winger, as were Liverpool, as were Villa.

Spurs ended up going for Bentley, Villa went for Milner and Liverpool went for Riera.

I think it'd be fair to say that everyone here would come to the conclusion that none of those players are good enough for us, and so if each club decided Valencia wasn't as good as any of them, it says quite a lot IMO.
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He signed permanently in Jan 08. My understanding is he agreed that deal well before that.

Those names are a bit disingenuous since they all signed the summer after he had already signed permanently with Wigan, and presumably wasn't available. Also, the clubs you mentioned are either pretty erratic in the transfer market, wanted a left winger, not right(Riera), or had been following the player for a long time(Milner).

And we were being linked with him throughout last season, so he must have been doing something right.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Those stats are obviously misleading. Valencia didn't take corners and was trying to tee up the likes of Emile Heskey last season, not Cristiano 42 goals Ronaldo.

Valencia was a more complete player last season than Nani is now. And he's improved again this season. Nani seems to have, if anything, gone backwards.
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Not how I see it at all.

Valencia's crossing was decent to good, always has been and it's not at the same level as Nani.

He beats a man better, but his dribbling and close control is no better.

Valencia last season was just an athlete, lightning pace and that's about it. A slightly better version of Aaron Lennon because his crossing and shooting was slightly better.

Very surprised at how many people being caught up in the hype about him, when just last season Bentley was hyped up to the same extent just like Lennon was two years ago. Wright-Phillips could probably be painted with the same brush too.
 
Can't speak for anyone else but I'm not getting "caught up in the hype". I'm basing my opinion on watching him play football. He's good at it too. A lot better than Nani, that's for sure.

For the record, I would say SWP has played a lot better than Nani this season. If they were the same age I would swap them in a heart-beat.
 
brophs said:
At what point are we going to be able to say "Nani does those things consistently" instead of "Nani can do them"? Because for my money, he's as far away as he was when he signed. Valencia isn't.

Nani needs to get his attitude right, and work his way back into things. Because as things stand, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get edged out of the first team squad if he keeps playing the way he is.
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Absolutely Brophs, I get so pissed off watching Nani play this season & its driving me mental. He's not being a team-player & seems hellbent on emulating Ronnie - which is never gonna happen!

He doesnt do the simple things well enough, like passing the ball early & alot of the time needlessly loses the ball when all he has to do is lay it off!

He needs to be his own man. He's got a great talent but he's wasting it due to his over-elaboration. He's got a few months left to prove me & alot of other people wrong, otherwise i feel Fergie will sell him in the Summer & Valencia is a player whom i admire quite a bit. Seems a great guy aswell with no airs nor graces!
 
I'll happily come back to this thread this time next year and we'll see if Valencia is still a much better footballer than Nani.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Can't speak for anyone else but I'm not getting "caught up in the hype". I'm basing my opinion on watching him play football. He's good at it too. A lot better than Nani, that's for sure.

For the record, I would say SWP has played a lot better than Nani this season. If they were the same age I would swap them in a heart-beat.
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Aye. Me and all.

The only benefactor of hype seems to be Nani, IMO. He's only shown flashes of quality, and seems to have made next to no improvement in the year and a half he's been here. He's 22 years of age, let's not forget that. He's not a kid anymore. He needs to start playing as well as he can.
 
Brwned said:
Not how I see it at all.

Valencia's crossing was decent to good, always has been and it's not at the same level as Nani.

He beats a man better, but his dribbling and close control is no better.

Valencia last season was just an athlete, lightning pace and that's about it. A slightly better version of Aaron Lennon because his crossing and shooting was slightly better.

Very surprised at how many people being caught up in the hype about him, when just last season Bentley was hyped up to the same extent just like Lennon was two years ago. Wright-Phillips could probably be painted with the same brush too.
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I’m a long time admirer of Valencia, nothing to do with his impressive stint at Wigan thus far. His performances at the world cup (where he got in the best 11 team if I remember rightly) were where I first noticed him.

He’s a better athlete than Nani, more powerful, quicker and more direct. He doesn’t have Nani’s close control or dribbling skills, both have powerful strikes on them.

There’s not much between them at all but I think Valencia’s redeeming quality is his on the field persona and attitude. Personally Id have him over Nani. Then again if and when Nani takes his game to the next level I sure he'll be the better player overall. At the moment its looking a big if though
 
brophs said:
I would. From what I saw he was good last season. Appreciably better than Nani overall, IMO.
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It's difficult to compare the two, Valencia's the shinning light at Wigan, plays week in week out, has a couple of poor games and he's given the chance. The confidence shown in him from Bruce will undoubtedly foster self-confidence. He has been the star the last season & this, but the star in a hard working, well-organised out-fit, he is their flair.

Nani rarely gets a run of games, couple of bad performances & he's out for a month or two. He's surrounded by some of the best attacking tallent in the world, he ain't gonna shine as bright as Valencia.

The fairer comparison would be Valencia v Ronaldo, and there is no comparison
 
brophs said:
Gus? Is that you?:)
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Nah, I don't want to prove myself right or prove you's wrong, but I think you's are being very harsh on Nani to say he's a much worse footballer than Valencia.
 
brophs said:
Aye. Me and all.

The only benefactor of hype seems to be Nani, IMO. He's only shown flashes of quality, and seems to have made next to no improvement in the year and a half he's been here. He's 22 years of age, let's not forget that. He's not a kid anymore. He needs to start playing as well as he can.
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The flop clock is going to start ticking for Nani quite soon.
 
peterstorey said:
The flop clock is going to start ticking for Nani quite soon.
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Aye, that's what has me worried. Because of the similarities between himself and Ronaldo there seems to have been an assumption made that they'll develop the same way. If they do, great. If not, there may be a decision to be made.
 
Sky Sports said:
Wigan boss Steve Bruce has conceded it is 'inevitable' that Luis Antonio Valencia will leave the club.

The Ecuador winger was strongly linked with a move away from the JJB Stadium during last month's transfer window, but Wigan managed to keep hold of him.

Real Madrid failed in a loan move for Valencia, while Manchester United are believed to be lining up a swoop for the wide-man in the summer.

Bruce is resigned to losing the 23-year-old and he is already looking at possible replacements for Valencia.
Interest

"It's inevitable he is leaving. There is so much interest in him - not just in this country but around the world," Bruce told The Mirror.

"We are talking about the biggest clubs in this country and Spain and beyond.

"There was a loan deal put to us by Real Madrid but it was not acceptable. We do have someone in mind to come in, but that is five months off."
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http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_4900641,00.html

Will be interesting to see how he fares at a bigger club.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Those stats are obviously misleading. Valencia didn't take corners and was trying to tee up the likes of Emile Heskey last season, not Cristiano 42 goals Ronaldo.

Valencia was a more complete player last season than Nani is now. And he's improved again this season. Nani seems to have, if anything, gone backwards.
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That's my opinion too - and damn frustrating it is too. To be honest I think Nani as a lot more potential than Valencia, but the Nani that arrived at Old Trafford has stubbornly failed to develop at all, and if he doesn't start making progress soon, I think he wll move on.

That said, I think this summer is far too early to consider giving up on Nani, which makes me wonder if we're not looking at Valencia to replace Ronaldo. I know people are saying that if Ronaldo is leaving we need a better replacement, but that's delusional. You don't normally get right wingers that can score 42 goals a season, Ronaldo is simply not directly replaceable in that way.

But if Ronaldo is leaving, we sign a good right winger (Valencia), and maybe use the Ronaldo money to buy a great pacy striker (Benzema...). United have always been bigger than any one player, and if Ronaldo leaves - we move on and build a new team to win league title 19.
 
SecondFig said:
That's my opinion too - and damn frustrating it is too. To be honest I think Nani as a lot more potential than Valencia, but the Nani that arrived at Old Trafford has stubbornly failed to develop at all, and if he doesn't start making progress soon, I think he wll move on.

That said, I think this summer is far too early to consider giving up on Nani, which makes me wonder if we're not looking at Valencia to replace Ronaldo. I know people are saying that if Ronaldo is leaving we need a better replacement, but that's delusional. You don't normally get right wingers that can score 42 goals a season, Ronaldo is simply not directly replaceable in that way.

But if Ronaldo is leaving, we sign a good right winger (Valencia), and maybe use the Ronaldo money to buy a great pacy striker (Benzema...). United have always been bigger than any one player, and if Ronaldo leaves - we move on and build a new team to win league title 19.
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Wouldn't surprise me one bit if something like this happened. And I think iour squad would be arguably even stronger as a result.
 
Brwned said:
Absolutely no doubt in my mind that if Valencia came here he would be struggling for form like Nani is, and that Nani would be doing just as well if not better if he was at Wigan.
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I have difficulty imaging Nani starting regularly, even at Wigan. Everyone has bad games, but to play at a reasonably high level every week, or even most weeks, seems a bit beyond his powers of concentration at the moment.
 
Chris H said:
I have difficulty imaging Nani starting regularly, even at Wigan. Everyone has bad games, but to play at a reasonably high level every week, or even most weeks, seems a bit beyond his powers of concentration at the moment.
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:D

Nani would be starting every week, being linked with United, Barcelona and Chelsea every day for £25 million, if Valencia and Palacios are always linked at around £18-20 million each.

I know Nani hasn't featured as much as we might have thought he would this season and he still dissappoints with his passing at times, but he has a ridiculous amount of ability on his day and is capable of doing things that Messi and Ronaldo would be proud of. Obviously he's nowhere near as consistant and we're still getting the bad with the good from Nani. But I honestly think the caf has forgotten how much ability Nani has shown in individual passages of play at times in his United career. He may not be an early-blooming superstar for us like Ronaldo or Rooney, but if he can consistantly perform to his best that he's shown so far in a United shirt, he'll easily be one of the best wingers in the world in 2 years time.
 
Ekeke said:
he has a ridiculous amount of ability on his day...
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That's my point. His day comes around infrequently, and in between...not so much. I think you're overly optimistic to think that he'll improve that much in two seasons. But I'll admit to being biased against players who show more talent than they have focus, and more individual brilliance than team play.
 
Nani's almost complete lack of a footballing brain would be shown up whatever level he plays at. It's certainly been exposed on the international scene, unlike Valencia - who has consistently been one of his country's best players.

Hopefully Nani will eventually grow a brain. Time will tell.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Nani's almost complete lack of a footballing brain would be shown up whatever level he plays at. It's certainly been exposed on the international scene, unlike Valencia - who has consistently been one of his country's best players.

Hopefully Nani will eventually grow a brain. Time will tell.
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wizard-of-oz-short-version-mike.jpg
 
Decotron said:
I’m a long time admirer of Valencia, nothing to do with his impressive stint at Wigan thus far. His performances at the world cup (where he got in the best 11 team if I remember rightly) were where I first noticed him.

He’s a better athlete than Nani, more powerful, quicker and more direct. He doesn’t have Nani’s close control or dribbling skills, both have powerful strikes on them.

There’s not much between them at all but I think Valencia’s redeeming quality is his on the field persona and attitude. Personally Id have him over Nani. Then again if and when Nani takes his game to the next level I sure he'll be the better player overall. At the moment its looking a big if though
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Good post :cool:
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Nani's almost complete lack of a footballing brain would be shown up whatever level he plays at. It's certainly been exposed on the international scene, unlike Valencia - who has consistently been one of his country's best players.

Hopefully Nani will eventually grow a brain. Time will tell.
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Well is it not a bit unfair to compare being one of Ecuador's best players to being one of Portugal's best players?
 
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