But not just cross though, his decision making can be considered as lacking throughout the years, how many time he stop the play and just stand there and not doing anything with the ball because he just can't decide whether to go past opponent, or to pass it back, or to cross it, and eventually just run forward and kick the ball to hit the first defender, at the end of the day his skills with the ball is really lacking for a player who used to be a winger
25
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 39
- Clean sheets
- 18
- Goals
- 3
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Status
But not just cross though, his decision making can be considered as lacking throughout the years, how many time he stop the play and just stand there and not doing anything with the ball because he just can't decide whether to go past opponent, or to pass it back, or to cross it, and eventually just run forward and kick the ball to hit the first defender, at the end of the day his skills with the ball is really lacking for a player who used to be a winger
Tony is solid at the back, gets into great positions in the final third out in the right, but his delivery is really bad.
He is good in most areas of the game. Only problem is his crossing. I do think it was better in the second half. Many other players didn't cross well either including Mata, Pogba and Blind mainly. Overall a fine performance.
He's one of the best in terms of defense though, he almost never got beaten in one-on-one, but his attacking play apart from his bombing forward run is just average
I thought he was absolutely awful going forward today. His lack of ability to use his left foot was glaringly obvious, and his delivery from his right foot was terrible, consistently hitting the first defender and failing to find a United player. There were many occasions where he had the chance to go down the byline and whip a cross in and instead he held the ball up. I really did feel like today he finally became Turn-Back Tony.
It felt like the cross around the 60th minute was one of best crosses by him in the match.. And I think he did that with his left foot..
Solid as usual, just need better delivery of crosses,but I have lost hope.. He's not suddenly going to stop blasting the opposition team's ankles..
Solid as usual, just need better delivery of crosses,but I have lost hope.. He's not suddenly going to stop blasting the opposition team's ankles..
I thought he was poor today, didn't drive into space often enough and his delivery was in full shinkiller mode.
No-one thinks otherwise, in case you're wondering.
Aurier would been a great deputy for him. Tony is ageing
I know it's predictable to come here and criticise Valencia after today's game but, in any case, I always thought he was very overrated. He does the job defensively but as a modern fb he is extremely limited.
It's not just the crossing but creativity and flair to mix things up. He is too predictable and he knows that. His lack of self confidence is obvious. Maybe the 4th signing José wanted was a rb and I really think United needs upgrading on both flanks of defence.
It's not just the crossing but creativity and flair to mix things up. He is too predictable and he knows that. His lack of self confidence is obvious. Maybe the 4th signing José wanted was a rb and I really think United needs upgrading on both flanks of defence.
Valancia crossing was frustrating. I mean used to it by now but today it was that much worse.
Wondering how he often manages to hit the first player when crossing and too much hesitation which leads to him hitting the first man in front of him.
Wondering how he often manages to hit the first player when crossing and too much hesitation which leads to him hitting the first man in front of him.
Crossing was tragic.
I can tolerate shin breaking crosses, they are a low percentage play anyway. It's the whole inevitable routine of stopping for a few secs and stare the defender in the eyes that gives it a soul crushing feeling.
Agree. I don't really understand the surprise here.
His best ball into the box today came off his weak foot. As others have mentioned, this is clearly nothing new. But how many balls does he need to cannon off the first defender or fire over the heads of all of our attackers into the sun before he tries something even remotely different? The end product can't be any worse. I think it's a testament to his speed and that he still routinely beats defenders with his little hesitation dribble to the line with his right foot. It is literally his only move.
Both he and Blind are very solid defensively but offer us next to nothing in attack. Most of the other elite teams, and Real Madrid especially, have fullbacks that provide a genuine threat down the flank. I think it's the weakest part of our team and painfully obvious in games like that of today, where teams are organized and difficult to break down. I'm not saying we should be buying replacements in the next few days, but I'm hoping we can find some upgrades in the next 1-2 years.
Both he and Blind are very solid defensively but offer us next to nothing in attack. Most of the other elite teams, and Real Madrid especially, have fullbacks that provide a genuine threat down the flank. I think it's the weakest part of our team and painfully obvious in games like that of today, where teams are organized and difficult to break down. I'm not saying we should be buying replacements in the next few days, but I'm hoping we can find some upgrades in the next 1-2 years.
That's why we needed someone like Aurier to provide competition. Our FB's options are all very average attacking wise ...
It's the whole running at the LB, stop and do that 'bouncy' routine, only to pass back that has been annoying me for years now.
If we want to compete domestically and in europe convincingly we need to drastically improve on both FB positions. The rest of the squad just looks so far ahead in comparison.
Frustrating first half performance. I think a young right back with big potential would be perfect for us right now. Valencia is very solid and has big game experience and was immense last season, despite some people's incredibly short memories.
The last 2 games he's kind of proved we need that competition for places. Took the safe option far too often and stunted a lot of our attacks.
The last 2 games he's kind of proved we need that competition for places. Took the safe option far too often and stunted a lot of our attacks.
I don't either, his decision making in the final third as a fullback has been god-awful since he started playing there under Van Gaal. Really it is a phenomenon to be honest, another clean sheet though. Solid as hell on the defensive end and somebody needs to come and take his spot which is fine by me.
I like Valencia but he was poor.
He was poor today going forward. But defensively still solid.
I think the knee is bothering him. There are times when he's not bombing up when we're in possession(I doubt it's instruction from Mourinho).
Definitely need a starting RB next season.
Definitely need a starting RB next season.
I think defenders knees are bothing him the way he keeps smashing his crosses at them.
The ultimate shinbreaker. The opponent left backs would do well to wear some extra pads over their shin when they play us.
Is there anyone in the academy coming through to play at RB? There are no decent RBs coming through in the market and I'd rather not go back to Darmian next season when Tony slows down or something.
He is solid defensively but going forward he is pretty average, dwells too much time on the ball and doesn't make his mind up early. We might need another 3-4 signings next season to be a top drawer team our FB's just doesn't have enough quality in the attacking third
I think I've noticed a slight drop in his level so far this season. Ashley Young is his deputy I think, although probably in a similar phase of his career.
Far too quick to label a drop in level after players reach a certain age. Why can't he have a drop in form like any other player? I haven't seen signs of him losing pace nor stamina, and his touch is still sublime.
Noticed it since pre season, and he doesn't look physically the same to me.
Good defensively but offensively he seems to have gone back to hitting shinpads.
Joe Riley who played a bit under LvG, can play RB or LB. A good talent who I rate and is very direct and energetic in his play. The exact type of full-back I enjoy watching and think we desperately need. Wouldn't mind him getting a few chances in cup games or really should get out on loan again. His loan last season was cut very short last season due to a freak accident in training colliding into a fence and injuring his shoulder for the rest of the season.
Olusunde who we saw in the squad a couple times near the end of the season. I don't rate him much and think he is quite poor defensively even at u23s level. Decent attacker though.
Tyrell Warren has played at RB in the past but mainly plays CB now and most believe he is better there. Quite a good talent and Mourinho mentioned him alongside Axel when he first started so Nicky Butt or someone must have talked him up to Mourinho. He was dropped from first team training pretty quickly though iirc.
Lee O'Connor is a massive talent but still in the u18s so wouldn't really be ready yet. Mainly has been playing CB too but he is on the short side so RB may end up his best position. Has played CB, RB, and CM and has looked class in all of them. Simply an intelligent and very gifted player. Has good pace too.
Many of the best fullbacks didn't have his role, nor wasted so many good attacks by putting terrible crosses entire game. I don't think I have seen many top teams fullbacks who insists that much on crossing the ball while being terrible at it.
I reckon if he laids the ball to our more creative players most of the time he opts for cross we would create more chances per game than we do now. I just don't see the point in him trying to cross it from every situation when he is terrble at it. Maybe I am blaming our manager here too.
Also, what bothers me the most about him, is that I think he is probably one of the worst big game players we have in this team. I don't know why people keep ignoring it, but he is regulary one of our biggest disappointmens in big games. Not just that he doesn't create anything, but he also becomes pretty shit at things he is usually good at, keeping the possession and bringing the ball up field. When he needs to take care more about his defensive duties he becomes pretty pointless player and brings almost nothing to our play. Someone will probably find one or two big game where he was good, but then I am pretty sure those games are pretty rare. Whenever he is asked to play more disciplined role he looks lost, and reminds me of his performance in that final against Barcelona where he literally had no idea what he was doing for 90 minutes and just kept fouling people on the pitch.
How can he still be hitting the first opponent with his crossing, with so many years of experience? It's just baffling. He's so freaking good in every area except his crossing. Work on it Tony.
Almost every time he sets himself up for a centre, and that's a fair few times in each game, it's as if the possession is lost. It's not merely that his crosses don't find a player in the box, it's that they don't even get past the first defender.
That's funny because you've criticised him for doing exactly what you've asked him to do. Which underlines the ridiculousness of the argument. It's one based purely on frustration with no assessment whatsoever of the facts. There's really no point in having a discussion in that case.
As a proportion of his overall use of the ball, he passes it more than most fullbacks when in advanced attacking positions. If you wanted to I'm sure you could find the statistics to see that. He does that because he recognises himself he isn't a great passer, and he's intelligent enough to recognise exactly what you suggest - creating space and then finding one of his team-mates is a very effective attacking tactic. The fact he does that causes some people to complain he passes too much. Some other people complain he crosses too much. Some people, like yourself, complain he does both.
If you want to see how Valencia compares to elite fullbacks, here's some of the data:
All fullbacks are the outball. Most of them are given loads of space to work in - that's abundantly clear from Aurier's highlights alone.
Stats are sometimes misleading but I don't see how these are given they pass the eyeball test. Valencia is very hard to dispossess because of his physique and because of the body position he places himself in (conservative, protective rather than ambitious and open), his first touch is rock solid and he beats players easily for a fullback. It's only because Valencia struggled as a winger towards the end that he's criticised for his ability 1 on 1...but if people remember what Evra was like as a winger, they'd see the obvious flaws in that perspective.
Most fullbacks do that. It's only because Valencia is so good at isolating the fullback that he does it more often in frequency. What you're expecting him to do is to act like a winger, but tactically that doesn't make any sense. Dribbling and crossing are terribly inefficient attacking methods for all but a few players in world football. A winger is asked to take risks and follow those attacking methods but a fullback isn't. They have to be more risk averse because they're a part of the defensive line and can't leave themselves exposed by taking on their man every time.
The idea that Valencia is relatively poor at beating his man is absurd and easily refuted by stats. Only Martial and Pogba have more successful dribbles per game in the team, so he's a more effective and more prolific dribbler than someone like Mkhitaryan. Of course the context of the areas they try to dribble in is important, so let's compare him against other fullbacks too. Here's a list of all the fullbacks from all of the teams in the CL knockout stages last year:
Filipe Luis - 2.2
Mendy - 2.1
Alex Sandro - 1.8
Bernat - 1.7
Marcelo - 1.4
Valencia - 1.3
S. Roberto - 1.2
Meunier - 1.2
Aurier - 1.1
Alves - 1.1
Rafinha - 1.1
Walker - 1.1
Guerreiro - 1.1
Escudero - 1.1
Mariano - 1.1
Henrichs - 1.1
Hysazj - 1.1
Carvajal - 1
Juanfran - 0.8
Kolarov - 0.8
Shaw - 0.8
Wendell - 0.6
Ghoulam - 0.6
Lahm - 0.5
Schlupp - 0.5
Fuchs - 0.4
Piszczek - 0.4
Zabaleta - 0.4
Clichy - 0.4
Alba - 0.3
So Valencia's in the top quintile for beating his man, when compared against the absolute elite in European football...and that's despite him, as you say, often taking the conservative choice and retaining possession. Surely you can see that your frustration with his economical approach and dull style is clouding your judgment of his effectiveness in beating a man?
That pretty much sums him up. Our delivery from both sides was poor yesterday but you could see Tony in particular just resorting to blasting the ball low and hoping for the best.
I am asking him to do that because he is not capable of effectively crossing the ball or anything else that's remotely creative around the box, so it's better if he passes it to someone like Mata, Mkhitaryan, or Pogba who could something better with it than to lose it by crossing into player's shins. I would ask him to try more backpasses like Martial did for Pogba yesterday, or to try early cross, go for a killer pass, shot or something like that but he is obviously not capable of that. My point is that he needs to stop crossing the ball because he is not good at it and he is ruining our attacks by constantly trying to cross the ball and failing.
Regarding stats, as I said couple of times, majority of these fullbacks are nowhere near attacking enough as Valencia is, and don't see the ball as much as him, so I don't think some stats are relevant. Even those that can be relevant in reality, don't look like it. I mean, him and Marcelo have almost identical number of dribbles per game?
Yeah, right. You don't even need to watch other fullbacks to notice that he is nothing special, just watch yesterday's game and ask yourself what exactly did he bring to our play that we already didn't have? We are praising a player who keeps possession and brings the ball high up the pitch against teams that we already dominate the posession and spend most of our game playing around their box even without him. Do you think we would be anything worse with Ashley Young yesterday playing as RB?
When we are struggling to dominate posession and bring the ball in the final third, like we did last year in big games, then I could understand the praise for Valencia, but he brings those things mostly in games that we are already dominating(against weaker team) and in big games he is nowhere near that level. I reckon he hoofs the ball more than anyone else from our team in big games. I just don't think things that he brings to this team are special at all.
Gone back is correct. People talking like he's never stopped doing it are being hysterical. He was very good both ends of the field last season and in pre season.
Yesterday I was screaming at him to run at Fuchs after the first couple of shin breakers but he carried on. Hope he gets back to himself fast.
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