I don't think we can take anything away from that night...
25
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 35
- Clean sheets
- 12
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 4
Why would he mention it drunk if he didn't think it?He also replaced Herrera, who was actually our best player, with Blind and lost control of that game. Let's just agree that his judgement, drunk or otherwise, isn't very sound when it comes to that game.
He also replaced Herrera, who was actually our best player, with Blind and lost control of that game. Let's just agree that his judgement, drunk or otherwise, isn't very sound when it comes to that game.
fair point.Blatant agendas against Van Gaal/Valencia aside, those comments were fair. Apart from that horrendous error Valencia had had a decent game, in a game where very few United players performed at a decent level. Wouldn't expect the usual suspects to recognise that but there you go.
Spot on, I think he should be our first choice RB next year with Rafael as backup. He's had some solid displays this season and some iffy ones too. If he gets his head down pre season and really studies the role he can make it his own. He's rarely injured and an absolute physical beast.
Probably the way it's going to go, now that the Clyne move has chilled. We see lots of complaining about our two RB's but fee logical suggestions of upgrades that are attainable.
To be honest i'm not sure there are many upgrades out there at the moment. World class right backs are in short supply. So i'd be happy for us to save the cash, (unless Rafael wants to leave) and strengthen elsewhere. People have thrown names around like Coleman, Clyne, Carvajal etc but are they even considered an upgrade? Valencia wants to be here, he's loyal and I think deserves the position on performance.
Yep, many complain about Valencia/Rafael but few come up with any other names than those you list & I agree, they're not worth the outlay for the supposed gain, IF, they are indeed available & willing to come here in the first place.
Its a horrendous error, you can't ignore things like that and say he played well. I don't expect the usual agenda driven suspects to recognise that though blah blah blah
Who should we get in at RB?
All the defensive positions need years to adapt, they are not based on talent but on experience and instinct, you don't become a right back after 10 games in 10 years. And the bar isn't lowered for Valencia as a right back, he had a good season, just compare his season to the rest of the top 10 right backs.
Correct, not many better, in the Prem.
How can anyone say he's had a good season really when he's made around 5 horrendous blunders.
Valencia has basically had a season comparative to Evra's worse a couple of seasons ago (with the same slow walking back) but even then Evra actually contributed going forward.
Under Fergie and Moyes he was a disaster in defence, now he's improved to poor. Are we really expecting him to step up to become a right back suitable for a title chasing side?
Who expects that?
As for your comparative, comparing a winger with a world class left back veteran is unfair, Valencia starting the season wasn't a right back.
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Alternatives please.
Clyne, Coleman, we should've been interested in Darmian. Alves would still be a big upgrade.
Nonsense, you still need to have a huge amount of talent to be a class defender. The club nor the player have the time for him to learn how to play right back.
You are debating alone here, I didn't asked for him to be a starter next season, I didn't even hinted that. As for the talent part who said that you didn't need talents at all? What I said is that it's not based on that, it's based on using the information/experience gained in training and games, and use it to adjust the positioning, the anticipation, the marking in already experienced situations. Defenders improve trough mistakes and the remembering of the said mistakes.
You can't expect from a 29 years old winger that he plays like a veteran fullback.
That's fine JP but you originally quoted me not the other way around, I'm glad we both agree he isn't good enough to be starting for us, which means he needs replacing.
I don't expect him to be able to play like a right back now, that's my point, this isn't a personal thing against Valencia, i'm disagreeing with those who beleive he is good enough to be our rightback.
True, and I responded to your question by naming squad players in big clubs, which I though would be explicit enough. But you want him replaced so much, that you didn't noticed.
Alves - can't see it happening.
Clyne talks broke down or LVG agreed with most that he's not a significant (if at all), improvement. Like Coleman, his main strength going forward. Now if you want a defensive improvement Darmain would be worth an enquiry - have we backed out? IF, Munich are in for him, then forget it - even Arsenal & London), might seem a better option to us for the Italian. It's easy to spit out names - getting them is a different matter.
Ah see I didn't get that, Sim and Pogue were talking about them being actual starters, hence why I thought you were following suit.True, and I responded to your question by naming squad players in big clubs, which I though would be explicit enough. But you want him replaced so much, that you didn't noticed.
I dunno, I think a decent offer to Alves and we will get his attention. I think you're right about Darmian though he does seem set for Bayern but we do know Bayern have a strict wage policy so if he's motivated by money we could still turn his head. I think we are going to have to again over spend on players this season, once we've reestablished ourselves as a top dog in Europe negotiations might become a little easier.Alves - can't see it happening.
Clyne talks broke down or LVG agreed with most that he's not a significant (if at all), improvement. Like Coleman, his main strength going forward. Now if you want a defensive improvement Darmain would be worth an enquiry - have we backed out? IF, Munich are in for him, then forget it - even Arsenal & London), might seem a better option to us for the Italian. It's easy to spit out names - getting them is a different matter.
Shows just how un straight forward replacing Valencia is.
Of course It's unfair on him as we shouldn't have that expectation on a declining winger but if he's going to play there then we have to hold him to the standards we expect.
It's not really the managers fault either as he didn't have that many choices and sadly Valencia isn't even the winger he was.
No, we shouldn't judge his past season as if he was an elite fullback, he is a decent squad player who had a good season and we should judge his season as the squad player that he is. Now, we can expect or wish to sign someone potentially better.
Of course the players you mentioned would be a bloody upgrade. This is a player who these days offers zero going forward, refuses to take on a man when he does get in a threatening position, can't cross his legs, is suspect defensively and you are saying we cannot get an upgrade? I've never before come across a player that some fans are willing to drop the bar year on year to justify his performances but with Valencia it is unreal.
I didn't compare their ability - I compared their worth to the team as not star players but, those that deliver when called upon. But, that concept seems above you.
This.
You originally call Valencia a squad option, then you compare him to Busquets and Pedro, one of which is a guaranteed starter and the other is a different type of player completely, he just happens to have the best forward line in the world in front of him. To go back to my point, you're confusing Valencia who 'does a job' for the team with Busquets, who is world class player in a supporting role and Pedro who would walk into pretty much any team in the world. They're different things.
Anyway we are digressing so let's just agree to disagree.
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Yeah, considering Valencia used to be a winger, it's mind boggling that he so shite at the attacking aspect of the fullback position. I can understand if it's the defensive part of the role, but he looks absolutely clueless going forward
It's funny how you guys don't rate Valencia at all. He's a solid performer and his presence alone has prevented us getting trainwrecked for a couple seasons now.
And the talk about offering zero going forward, pffft. For example the first goal in the MUN-LIV game this season was the nicest goals by us I've seen in a while.
And the talk about offering zero going forward, pffft. For example the first goal in the MUN-LIV game this season was the nicest goals by us I've seen in a while.
Roosney off the top of your head, list 9 other assists by Valencia See, that is the thing. You give one example. Someone of his ability, should be able to cross without hitting the first defender.
See, that is the thing. You give one example. Someone of his ability, should be able to cross without hitting the first defender.That's ridiculous. In fact, he's one of the reasons why we have down the gutter with his decline combined to his lack of technical ability. What's even more baffling has been how none of our last 3 managers has had the guts to tell him to forget a place in the starting lineup or simply that he's not part of the short term future anymore.
I hope we sign a new RB while using Varela as a backup for that position next season. The further I see Valencia from the main squad, the better several fans will feel. Enough with this conundrum already.
He was positionally atrocious in that game long before that error, I remember the gaping hole through which Sanchez and co. kept walking into our box, including for the 1st goal, and of course he handed them the second.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/antonio-valencia-2014-15-performances.395263/page-53#post-17225354
Nah. Disagree. But really can't be arsed revisiting that particular argument. It was done to death at the time.
He's a manager's dream. No ego, follows instructions, no agent, won't fuss if I the bench, keeps his game simple, and is stronger and faster than 99% of attackers.
I'm good with him and Rafael at RB. Just hope that LVG ops for Rafael if he is fit.
I'm good with him and Rafael at RB. Just hope that LVG ops for Rafael if he is fit.
If Valencia is following instructions we have bigger problems than his selection
He is following instruction, he's just not very good at executing it.
I think this is really unfair. Taking on players unnecessarily is one of the fundamentals of van gaals methods. Its one of the reasons he has had such poor relations with Brazilian players because its a core part of its approach.
If our defence doesnt keep possesion it is almost nigh on impossible for the rest of them to keep possesion.
The same goes for needless shots and crossing not only because it wastes possesion; but also because we dont evem have the right strikers to utilise this tactic.
We want our approach to attacking and defending both to be team co-ordinated; as such valencia's performances have been better suited to van gaals team than either SAF's or Moyes's.
At his age; there is almost no reason to replace him with another attacking fullback because he just wont have the ability to play with commin sense that valencia has in abundance.
Not talking about any of that. He goes wandering way out of position with no gain to the team and exposing our right side in the process.
If Valencia is just following orders, then LVG is the questionable one.
Valencia is a backup right back. Simply not good enough for a club that wants to win trophies. Good squad player.