[Massive Spanner]

I think that he has, generally, been very good at right-back, and it's completely understandable that he's keeping Rafael out of the team. He is however 30 years old and not anything more than a good right back and that's why we absolutely need to get a higher quality, younger RB than him this summer, but he definitely deserves to stay and fight for a place with them.*

I've been extremely critical of him in the last few years, he went from one of my favourite players to one of my most loathed in the space of a summer, but he deserves credit for reinventing himself for us.

*As long as he never plays as a winger again, ever.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think that he has, generally, been very good at right-back, and it's completely understandable that he's keeping Rafael out of the team. He is however 30 years old and not anything more than a good right back and that's why we absolutely need to get a higher quality, younger RB than him this summer, but he definitely deserves to stay and fight for a place with them.*

I've been extremely critical of him in the last few years, he went from one of my favourite players to one of my most loathed in the space of a summer, but he deserves credit for reinventing himself for us.

*As long as he never plays as a winger again, ever.

Jaysus. What did he get up to on his summer holidays?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Jaysus. What did he get up to on his summer holidays?

Ok, slight exaggeration. What I meant was that he ended 11/12 in amazing fashion, winning POTY, only to somehow turn to complete dogshit instantly next season. It was actually really bizarre, such a massive fall from grace.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Ok, slight exaggeration. What I meant was that he ended 11/12 in amazing fashion, winning POTY, only to somehow turn to complete dogshit instantly next season. It was actually really bizarre, such a massive fall from grace.

Cool. Thought he'd thrown the gob at your missus.

Yeah, his decline was odd. Especially because he had a run of decent games when he first game back after that leg break. It's a shame but it looks as though we'll never see him regain his ability as a winger. As a fullback, though, he's improved a huge amount this season. Along with Young and Fellaini he would be one of the players who seems to have learned and progressed the most under Van Gaal. Probably Hererra too, come to think of it. All of them are obviously intelligent players, willing to learn and adapt their games to fit the manager's game plan. So long as Van Gaal is in charge, that's exactly what we need.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

Which is still bollocks. He's in the correct position to stop Fabregas progressing down the line, if he's not there Fabregas has acres of space.

It goes to Oscar and Hazard is already moving into that space behind Valencia. It's Herrera's responsibility to track Hazard and defend that space if Valencia has to step up and press Fabregas.

There is absolutely no time whatsoever for Valencia to spot that Herrera has made a huge error in chasing the ball rather than tracking his man. It's split seconds. Impossible.

No, go rewatch it. Fabregas was way out of the offensive equation on the touch line. Hazard was bursting through a massive gap in our line and Valencia just stood there and watched him. Do you actually think Oscar was going to find Fabregas on the touchline who had 2 United players on him? The play was obvious; knock it into Hazard's path because of the run he was making.

 

[Trizy]

He's actually well capable of defending, his positioning at times needs to be questioned but he's not a RB by trade so it can be excused. One thing that grinds my gears is how little he tries get forward now a days, its like he's terrified of losing the ball up the field. He offers little or no danger at all going forward.

With Shaw and a proper attacking RB (Rafael?) Next season we'll be too much to handle for most teams.

 

[bugmat]

No, go rewatch it. Fabregas was way out of the offensive equation on the touch line. Hazard was bursting through a massive gap in our line and Valencia just stood there and watched him. Do you actually think Oscar was going to find Fabregas on the touchline who had 2 United players on him? The play was obvious; knock it into Hazard's path because of the run he was making.

SO obvious Herrera who was there should have seen it - good point! Valencia was one of the two players stopping the pass to fabregas as OScar improvised with a flick...if Herrera had done his job at tat moment it would have come to nothing - he just had to track or foul Hazard.

Posters is here are being ridiculous as usual - if Valencia had gone centrally to try and cover Herrera's mistake in that split second, and then Oscar passed wide to Fabregas you all would have said he shouldn't have gotten pulled out of position

Haters gonna hate

 

[LeftyBlaster]

SO obvious Herrera who was there should have seen it - good point! Valencia was one of the two players stopping the pass to fabregas as OScar improvised with a flick...if Herrera had done his job at tat moment it would have come to nothing - he just had to track or foul Hazard.

Posters is here are being ridiculous as usual - if Valencia had gone centrally to try and cover Herrera's mistake in that split second, and then Oscar passed wide to Fabregas you all would have said he shouldn't have gotten pulled out of position

Haters gonna hate

Oscar could've played it to Fabregas, yes. But was Fabregas making a run? No. Go read my earlier post; I said both Ander and Valencia were at fault. But it's crazy how some people are letting Valencia off free here. Were you in Oscar's position would you have decided to play a horizontal pass to a player not making a run when there's your best attacking player running off you into a massive gap? Don't sugar coat things. He messed up. They both did.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Right, I'm fed up of this - it's really feckin' stupid.

Valencia is not at fault for this goal - watch the gif again.



Right, Fabregas is running right at him, literallly... he is running with the ball, towards Valencia... at this point, what should Valencia do? Stand his ground, or run away and magically decide to double up on Hazard, even though, at that point, Herrera is goal side and has him. We do not man-mark, and at this point, Cesc and Hazard had switched positions - so Fabregas is Valencia's man and Hazard is Herrera's - so the correct answer is that Valencia either a) quickly closes down Fabregas, or b) stand's his ground. This is the ONLY place you can possible criticise him for, in that he doesn't press on Fabregas quickly, which, considering he had Mata on his back, would have made life harder for Fabregas and possibly prevented him from playing the pass to Oscar, but that is it.

As the play develops, Hazard only becomes free pretty much when Oscar releases the ball with the backheel - by this point, Hazard has caught Herrera out and is gone. Valencia is quick, but so is Hazard, and there is absolutely no way he is catching him. Hazard is free and through on goal and there is bugger all Valencia can do about it - except perhaps a cynical lunge to take him out, though a) that's not his style, and b) he might have got that wrong and given away a penalty.

In conclusion - the goal is, in no way, Valencia's fault.... and to criticise him for it is utterly ridiculous.

 

[sajeev]

Right, I'm fed up of this - it's really feckin' stupid.

Valencia is not at fault for this goal - watch the gif again.

nope you are wrong. rafael would have stopped that

 

[Annihilate Now!]

nope you are wrong. rafael would have stopped that

Well that's a given, Hazard would have been so distracted by his luscious curly hair that he would have forgotten to even make the run.

 

[bugmat]

Right, I'm fed up of this - it's really feckin' stupid.

Valencia is not at fault for this goal - watch the gif again.



Right, Fabregas is running right at him, literallly... he is running with the ball, towards Valencia... at this point, what should Valencia do? Stand his ground, or run away and magically decide to double up on Hazard, even though, at that point, Herrera is goal side and has him. We do not man-mark, and at this point, Cesc and Hazard had switched positions - so Fabregas is Valencia's man and Hazard is Herrera's - so the correct answer is that Valencia either a) quickly closes down Fabregas, or b) stand's his ground. This is the ONLY place you can possible criticise him for, in that he doesn't press on Fabregas quickly, which, considering he had Mata on his back, would have made life harder for Fabregas and possibly prevented him from playing the pass to Oscar, but that is it.

As the play develops, Hazard only becomes free pretty much when Oscar releases the ball with the backheel - by this point, Hazard has caught Herrera out and is gone. Valencia is quick, but so is Hazard, and there is absolutely no way he is catching him. Hazard is free and through on goal and there is bugger all Valencia can do about it - except perhaps a cynical lunge to take him out, though a) that's not his style, and b) he might have got that wrong and given away a penalty.

In conclusion - the goal is, in no way, Valencia's fault.... and to criticise him for it is utterly ridiculous.

It appears the 4 or 5 agenda posters in here secretly hoped AV had lunged wildly there, gotten his red card, and given them a penalty with us a man down for the better part of an hour.

 

[Señor]

He's been great last couple of games. Still think we could do better though.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

My thought after seeing the gif.
It was primarily Herrera's fault cause he lost Hazard and then had made a mistake by not trying to close him down but let Smalling do it and he has drifted right. he just needed to track Hazard all the way, not let him go to have a clear shot.

Valencia isnt at fault but when he saw Hazard bursting he tried to close him and then suddenly just stopped. Hazard is quick sure but I dont understand why Valenica just gave up in the middle of his run.

Also could DDG have done better? Its the 1st post, so there's always a question should keeper have done better.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

My thought after seeing the gif.
It was primarily Herrera's fault cause he lost Hazard and then had made a mistake by not trying to close him down but let Smalling do it and he has drifted right. he just needed to track Hazard all the way, not let him go to have a clear shot.

Valencia isnt at fault but when he saw Hazard bursting he tried to close him and then suddenly just stopped. Hazard is quick sure but I dont understand why Valenica just gave up in the middle of his run.

Also could DDG have done better? Its the 1st post, so there's always a question should keeper have done better.

It's a bit weird to just stop like he did - but he definitely wasn't catching him, so it didn't make any difference in the grand scheme of things.

De Gea does fine, shots perfectly between the legs are always difficult to stop from such a close range.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

It's a bit weird to just stop like he did - but he definitely wasn't catching him, so it didn't make any difference in the grand scheme of things.

De Gea does fine, shots perfectly between the legs are always difficult to stop from such a close range.

He wasnt catching him but he should have persist with the run maybe and at least make it difficult for him somehow, I dont know.

It was a good shot by Hazard but maybe DDG should have closed his angle better, maybe by staying closer to the post.

Which reminds me, I conceded a stupid goal between my legs during the weekend, it was a weak shot and it was really embarrasing but that's another story.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It was a very good finish. No more of a goalkeeping error than Mata's goal last weekend.

 

[Pexbo]

When you see that angle it goes beyond ridiculous that people are even thinking about blaming him.

Hazard started fairly deep and very centrally, should have been picked up by Herrera and then the route he took was past where Smalling should have been.

The positional issue started from the left side of defence. Shaw should have dropped in behind Drogba quicker and communicated with McNair to take Oscar which would have stopped Smalling being dragged out of position and leaving a gaping hole for Hazard to attack.


The main issue there was McNair's positioning. He was caught in no minds land with one eye on Drogba and one eye on Oscar.


The main thing this highlights though is the problem we can have when we are too easily dispossessed and in the wrong phase of position. Shaw got caught out trying to get back and pick up Drogba which meant McNair had to pick him up. That left Smalling being dragged over to Oscar and Hazard room to attack in behind him.

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

He lives in England since 10 years and his interviews (on MUTV) are still in spanish

 

[Pexbo]

He lives in England since 10 years and his interviews (on MUTV) are still in spanish

It's absolutely mental isn't it. Apparently LVG ordered him to get English lessons when he arrived at the club. I really just think he's not particularly bright.

 

[limerickcitykid]

He's a professional footballer who hasn't learnt how to take a throw-in and you are expecting him to learn a new language. Like lower your expectations and shit.

 

[ZDwyr]

He's a professional footballer who hasn't learnt how to take a throw-in and you are expecting him to learn a new language. Like lower your expectations and shit.

great point.

 

[032Devil]

Valencia is so under-rated here that it leaves me wondering what am I missing in my assessment of the player.

Calm, authoritative and commanding, I have not seen a single side (that I can recall), in the Premiership that has been able to handle or subdue him completely.

True, he can't get around defenders any more (he hasn't been able to do that for a few years), he remains a handful for most sides who end up putting two or more players on him which is a testimony to his abilities.

I'd like to see him moved into Carrick's position when he's injured as I think he could handle it. It would save having to move Rooney there who is better as our main attacker.

 

[ivaldo]

He's a professional footballer who hasn't learnt how to take a throw-in and you are expecting him to learn a new language. Like lower your expectations and shit.

brilliant. I often think the channels frozen when he's taking a throw in too.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

He lives in England since 10 years and his interviews (on MUTV) are still in spanish

Maybe he's to shy to speak english.

 

[Lawman]

Valencia is so under-rated here that it leaves me wondering what am I missing in my assessment of the player.

Calm, authoritative and commanding, I have not seen a single side (that I can recall), in the Premiership that has been able to handle or subdue him completely.

True, he can't get around defenders any more (he hasn't been able to do that for a few years), he remains a handful for most sides who end up putting two or more players on him which is a testimony to his abilities.

I'd like to see him moved into Carrick's position when he's injured as I think he could handle it. It would save having to move Rooney there who is better as our main attacker.

I was with you till the Carrick position thing (he doesn't have the intelligence of Carrick to do this he'd be better if moved centrally suited more as a box to box player) but he is fine where he is and this centrally should be confined to emergency use only. As a right back he's well on his way to becoming the best in the league.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He's a professional footballer who hasn't learnt how to take a throw-in and you are expecting him to learn a new language. Like lower your expectations and shit.

How many times has a professional referee or linesman penalised him after a throw-in? Once? How many throw-ins has he taken in his United career?

Methinks Antonio Valencia has better idea about what is and isn't a foul throw than you do

He's got an unusual technique, that's for sure but it obviously works for him and (crucially) for the match officials, so no harm done.

 

[Pexbo]

How many times has a professional referee or linesman penalised him after a throw-in? Once? How many throw-ins has he taken in his United career?

Methinks Antonio Valencia has better idea about what is and isn't a foul throw than you do

He's got an unusual technique, that's for sure but it obviously works for him and (crucially) for the match officials, so no harm done.

It just looks incredibly awkward because his shirt doesn't give his chest enough room to expand and his biceps barely fit past his ears.

 

[Blue always red]

That gif sums it up perfectly. Valencia is doing his job by narrowing the space that Fabregas has to run into and forces him to play what can be seen as a nothing ball if not for Oscar's ingenuity. By the time Hazard has left his man no defender in the league is catching him. If Carrick is playing I don't think we give away that goal.

 

[limerickcitykid]

How many times has a professional referee or linesman penalised him after a throw-in? Once? How many throw-ins has he taken in his United career?

Methinks Antonio Valencia has better idea about what is and isn't a foul throw than you do

He's got an unusual technique, that's for sure but it obviously works for him and (crucially) for the match officials, so no harm done.

I was joking anyway but he's been called more than once this year and the commentators have even called him out on more than one occasion where the refs didn't penalise him for it. He take every throw-in down the right side.

Methinks he doesn't as it isn't even about his unusual technique half the time but rather he blatantly lifts his back leg a foot off the ground. There is harm done as well, as he has been called on it and it is a needless way to give away possession.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I was joking anyway but he's been called more than once this year and the commentators have even called him out on more than one occasion where the refs didn't penalise him for it. He take every throw-in down the right side.

Methinks he doesn't as it isn't even about his unusual technique half the time but rather he blatantly lifts his back leg a foot off the ground. There is harm done as well, as he has been called on it and it is a needless way to give away possession.

I can honestly only remember him being blown up once and must have watched him take hundreds of throws by now. Dunno why he does it tbh but the ref lets it go 99.9% of the time, so his technique must be generally ok.

 

[Joemo]

I can honestly only remember him being blown up once and must have watched him take hundreds of throws by now. Dunno why he does it tbh but the ref lets it go 99.9% of the time, so his technique must be generally ok.

How does that make any sense? His technique is fine because he's rarely punished for it?

His technique isn't ok, and 99.9% of the time it should be deemed a foul throw. It's not, but that's because of the ineptitude of the referee and linesman with regards to that ruling, but if they were competent then it would bve a foul throw almost every time.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

How does that make any sense? His technique is fine because he's rarely punished for it?

His technique isn't ok, and 99.9% of the time it should be deemed a foul throw. It's not, but that's because of the ineptitude of the referee and linesman with regards to that ruling, but if they were competent then it would bve a foul throw almost every time.

In your opinion.

Yet people who earn a living as match officials in top flight professional football evidently see things differently. They have the exact opposite opinion, in fact.

In answer to your question, yes, his technique is fine if he's not punished for it. A foul throw isn't a foul throw unless it's penalised. Just like a player who is almost never gives away free-kicks can't be accused of commiting too many fouls.

 

[ivaldo]

I can honestly only remember him being blown up once and must have watched him take hundreds of throws by now. Dunno why he does it tbh but the ref lets it go 99.9% of the time, so his technique must be generally ok.

It's not OK, its astonishingly shocking and if Refs decide to enforce the law properly then 99.9% of his throw ins would be a foul. Thankfully the refs can't be arsed with it so he gets away with it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's not OK, its astonishingly shocking and if Refs decide to enforce the law properly then 99.9% of his throw ins would be a foul. Thankfully the refs can't be arsed with it so he gets away with it.

They "can't be arsed" enforcing the rules of the game? Seems legit.

 

[ivaldo]

They "can't be arsed" enforcing the rules of the game? Seems legit.

Yes, much in the same way as they don't penalise shirt pulling or grappling in the box, are you suggesting that is within the law? Anyway the official ruling on throw ins:

At the moment of delivering the ball, the thrower:
faces the field of play
has part of each foot either on the touchline or on the
ground outside the touchline
uses both hands
delivers the ball from behind and over his head

 

[bosnian_red]

They "can't be arsed" enforcing the rules of the game? Seems legit.

I think most of them don't care too much about foul throws if it's "close", and Valencia's are generally usually on the edge, so I think he gets away with it. If it's truly awful then they whistle for them, but all professional footballers do half assed throw ins all the time that probably should be called back.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yes, much in the same way as they don't penalise shirt pulling or grappling in the box, are you suggesting that is within the law? Anyway the official ruling on throw ins:

At the moment of delivering the ball, the thrower:
faces the field of play
has part of each foot either on the touchline or on the
ground outside the touchline
uses both hands
delivers the ball from behind and over his head

I'm aware of the rules. I've player competitive football before. I'm also absolutely certain the referees and assistant referees are aware of them too. Yet Valencia almost never (as in, less than one in a hundred) gets penalised. There's a reason for that and it's not about not being arsed.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think most of them don't care too much about foul throws if it's "close", and Valencia's are generally usually on the edge, so I think he gets away with it. If it's truly awful then they whistle for them, but all professional footballers do half assed throw ins all the time that probably should be called back.

I think that's it. I've no idea why he takes the risk but it works out ok for him, so it's no big deal. Completely different story if he was getting picked up on it regularly. That really would be stupid.

 

[ivaldo]

I'm aware of the rules. I've player competitive football before. I'm also absolutely certain the referees and assistant referees are aware of them too. Yet Valencia almost never (as in, less than one in a hundred) gets penalised. There's a reason for that and it's not about not being arsed.

Well if you know the rules then you know he's taking throw ins incorrectly. Whether the ref penalises him or not is completely irrelevant.